Tell me, please

[Muslim]

what is, in your view, that happens when you die?

I just had a word with the uni´s philosophy teacher and im kind of full of answears


a fine science this phylosophy thing is, altought i cant spell it properly

[Embroglio]

Nothing, you're dead, game over, le fin.

[SbOlly]

When you die, your body either rots in the ground, or is burnt to ashes.



Oh. You wanted some half arsed, unproofable, hopeful "Oh I think that when you die you goto a big white place called heaven where all your dreams come true" or "When you die, your soul becomes one with the earth force and you truly understand what it is to become one with the universe". Or some other hippy shit right?

Right?

[1-X]

Obviously no-one can say for sure if there is existence after death or not. It would be nice if there was, but it's not something we can know or change so there isn't much point worrying about it.

It seems more likely that there is nothing. Maybe people are more likely to believe otherwise as they get older (and thus nearer to the event) or find the pain of losing loved ones easier to bear if they make believe they will be reunited with them.

Also, most people have some religion fed into their brains at an impressionable age, and this brainwashing is hard to overcome even when your rational mind seems certain it is all a scam.

[Aryn]

[quote=Muslim]
I just had a word with the uni´s philosophy teacher and im kind of full of answears
/QUOTE]


no.. you're full of theories.. not answers.
there IS no answer

[W]

Originally Posted by 1-X

Obviously no-one can say for sure if there is existence after death or not. It would be nice if there was, but it's not something we can know or change so there isn't much point worrying about it.

This seems a common belief, and quite understandable. So easy to not have to deal with the uncertainties by simply ignoring them. From a philosophical viewpoint you're dead wrong tho. Why do you think noone can know anything about what happens after death (except in the trivial sense of "we can't really know anything for sure")? Several religions is about the idea that you CAN change what happens after death, and while wallowing in ignorance and refusing to worry might be blissful, there's no guarantee you aren't missing out on an afterlife because of it.

It seems more likely that there is nothing. Maybe people are more likely to believe otherwise as they get older (and thus nearer to the event) or find the pain of losing loved ones easier to bear if they make believe they will be reunited with them.

Wishful thinking lies behind most religious and philosophical convictions. I'd like to know your reasoning behind the estimate that an afterlife is unlikely tho. Just because people believe something without evidence doesn't mean it isn't true. Their belief in the face of lack of evidence, has in fact no bearing at all on reality.

Also, most people have some religion fed into their brains at an impressionable age, and this brainwashing is hard to overcome even when your rational mind seems certain it is all a scam.

I do not beleive there is such a thing as an "impressionable age". When you're smart enough to understand what's preached to you enough to believe it, you're smart enough to question it as well. Denial is hard to face, but to blame it on your age at the time of it's formation is just avoiding responsibility and/or hiding weakness.

Muslim, to answer your question, I believe in preparedness. Be ready for any possibility, including the possibility of biological death being true death. To assume either way without clear external evidence is to gamble.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by W

This seems a common belief, and quite understandable. So easy to not have to deal with the uncertainties by simply ignoring them. From a philosophical viewpoint you're dead wrong tho. Why do you think noone can know anything about what happens after death (except in the trivial sense of "we can't really know anything for sure")? Several religions is about the idea that you CAN change what happens after death, and while wallowing in ignorance and refusing to worry might be blissful, there's no guarantee you aren't missing out on an afterlife because of it.Wishful thinking lies behind most religious and philosophical convictions. I'd like to know your reasoning behind the estimate that an afterlife is unlikely tho. Just because people believe something without evidence doesn't mean it isn't true. Their belief in the face of lack of evidence, has in fact no bearing at all on reality.

the problem then is, that you end up invoking either blind faith or pascals wager in some form - ultimately the majority of faiths rely on this. The only thing that a reasonable person can do, is assume that any deity there might be is a Just one, and then do what one can to justify what you do.

I do not beleive there is such a thing as an "impressionable age". When you're smart enough to understand what's preached to you enough to believe it, you're smart enough to question it as well. Denial is hard to face, but to blame it on your age at the time of it's formation is just avoiding responsibility and/or hiding weakness.

I don't know how many religious fundamentalists you have come across, but alot of them seem to have certain brain structures that forbid seeing sense. A prime example of this is Morton's Demon... a little demon that sits on the shoulder of fundamentalists opening the door when any evidence that supports the faith comes in, and then shutting it whenever something contradictory comes along. It's really quite astounding, and here I refer to some Christians... you can tell ask them about the formation of all the sandstones and so on, and they say it all happened in the flood, so you ask where all the insect an animal tracks came from in the conconino sandstones (according to their theory, these tracks would have had to be formed by little ants and other assorted fauna attempting to run uphill while five miles deep underwater while millions of tons of sediment rained down on their heads), and despite that this rubbished their theory, they blatantly ignore it. There are a million and one examples of this sort of thing, but what it amounts to is a illness of sorts, a mental trap of their own wicked devising. I am not saying it is inescapable, because it is, but many of them seem unable to question it.

Muslim, to answer your question, I believe in preparedness. Be ready for any possibility, including the possibility of biological death being true death. To assume either way without clear external evidence is to gamble.

[W]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

the problem then is, that you end up invoking either blind faith or pascals wager in some form - ultimately the majority of faiths rely on this. The only thing that a reasonable person can do, is assume that any deity there might be is a Just one, and then do what one can to justify what you do.

Why? Not only is the existance of an afterlife independant of the existance of deities, but the assumption that any deity that would judge you after death would do so based on what we consider just is, well, just an assumption. It might fit nicely with what you want from reality, but it's just another piece of wishful thinking.

I don't know how many religious fundamentalists you have come across, but <lots of stuff about fundies>

Oh I know the attitude completely. I was an active christian for many years, and have come across all the different type of believers. I was just saying that it has to do with the type of person, not with what they're exposed to growing up. What they're exposed to might influence what /kind/ of fundie they turn out to be, but it doesn't affect their faculty for critical judgement.

[LHC]

Originally Posted by Embroglio

Nothing, you're dead, game over, le fin.

[Knight Theamion]

c'est toutes.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Muslim

a fine science this phylosophy thing is, altought i cant spell it properly

Philosophy isn't a science.

[Idler]

[quote=Aryn]

Originally Posted by Muslim

I just had a word with the uni´s philosophy teacher and im kind of full of answears
/QUOTE]


no.. you're full of theories.. not answers.
there IS no answer

actually he's full of hypotheses something something (I bet that was norenglish, hah!)

theories is the middle thing before a conclusion :/

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Aryn

no.. you're full of theories.. not answers.
there IS no answer

Of course there's an answer.

We just have no way of finding it out.

[I'm Not Grimble]

Once you're dead, our loving mod MArilyn Manson gets a shovel, visits your grave and abuses you anally.

Apart from that, anything might happen

[Idler]

Marilyn Manson has the longest nose.. longer than mine

[I'm Not Grimble]

He uses his nose for rape you know

[Idler]

I bet he rapes Kelly Osbourne

atleast Ozzy's happy!

[Marilyn Manson]

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.


P.S, Everything that Idler and Grimble post is evil and lies.

[I'm Not Grimble]

Hey MM

how are you?

[Marilyn Manson]

I am experiencing an unfamiliar sense of motivation.

[Ste]

I believe in multiple realities in which we have consciousness in each, The one you 'live' is the one where you never die. However in everyone elses 'lives' you will die...
Anyone understand what I mean?

Kind of like the matrix 'what is reality' thing.

Other than that, I reckon what happens is what you truly believe will happen.

Go on, prove me wrong.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I say that Neptune is a giant fish disguised as a planet.

Go on, prove me wrong.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I don't see why Richie Edwards is in there, there's hardly a Manics fanboy cult.

[Marilyn Manson]

What artistic work?

Hitler produced greater artistic work than you.

You get any tuppeny-happeny person that can draw or use a piece of electrical equipment proclaiming themselves an 'artist' nowadays. It's disgraceful.

Get down the slate mine, where you belong. ffs.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Sigh, clearly the word "undue" got lost in translation there somewhere.

You're still aiming way, way too high sonny.

You're not going to be at Kurt Cobain level post-death You're not even going to be at Thora Hird level.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

You're not going to be at Kurt Cobain level post-death You're not even going to be at Thora Hird level.

There'll probably be fewer puns than Hird.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

There'll probably be fewer puns than Hird.

P.S, Since when was my uncharitableness ever logical?

Sod that.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally Posted by SbOlly

I always get the soggy biscuit

Is this some perverse reference to the biscuit game so beloved of Eton and Harrow?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Gayle29uk

Is this some perverse reference to the biscuit game so beloved of Eton and Harrow?

This seems like a perfect time to advertise S. Fry's The Liar.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

This seems like a perfect time to advertise S. Fry's The Liar.

I'm rereading the Stars Tennis Balls. Liar was fun though, especially for that memorable phrase "What the yellow rubbery ****..."

[MrL_JaKiri]

The thing I don't like about the Stars' Tennis Balls is that it would have worked out for Cotter (can't remember his real name) had he not published it in his own paper. His failure was not one of arrogance, just laxity.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Philosophy isn't a science.

It will be by the time I'm finished with it.




As for what I think happens when I die I'd say everything in the blink of an eye. Or nothing for eternity. Just imagine living for eternity, it'd be a bit dull wouldn't it? Every billion years a comet flys past the earth just grazing it and knocking off one single particle from the earth. When the entire earth has been worn away eternity will have just begun.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Good old Heat/Cold death of the universe (take your pick)

[W]

TRAIN WRECK

what, you too stupid to talk about philosophy?

[Bunga]

I prefer the Eschaton to the Heat Death. Its more poetic. An infinity of nothingness strikes me as boring. With an eschaton there could be something "afterwards", at least.