Planetarion Forums

Mi5 · 27 Mar 2003, 14:16

I scanned the top planets and the majority are zikonian (big suprise) with a handful of terran and very few xan/cath. the big suprise for me was when unit scanning the ziks, most of them have chosen to go for a pure fi/co fleet. I can see the advantages of the reduced eta, nice flak ships, mass spammage of corsairs and great targeting (all classes bar BS), but I didnt really see this as a routefor early rnd, due to most other races having a high proportion of their fleet in fi/co which 1-1 usually own the zikko fi/co, so i preferred to invest in fr/de instead. Was the fi/co tactic the better tactic??? Or is it better for escorting/farming???

Discuss

at0mic.c0w · 27 Mar 2003, 15:40

my plan was also to go FI/CO late round while doing FR/DE at the start. guess i never had a chance to really see which works better...

Wombat · 27 Mar 2003, 15:53

Personally I wouldn't be at all suprised, if when you have news scans and you look at the incomming to their targets, if they have a lot of xan incomming in addition or even more so a lot of small cat on a xan.

FI CO for a zik doesn't work terribly well, in the long run anyway, because thiefs are bloody thirsty, plus bad killers themselves, it's mostly a reflection of how the top gals have had no need to build ships of a decent killing ability because it's very rare they could come under any hostilities due to the alliance politics of this round.

Sun_Tzu · 27 Mar 2003, 15:58

#1 - They've been busy fleet-farming vultures.
#2 - They've had escorts to kick them off.
#3 - Some of them are cheating and those are nearly surely zikos.

just my guess but most of the terrans/caths/xandas in the top20 are clean while the majority of zikos have been farming(fleet farming is also illegal this round). Also as long as Killmarks rumored host gal is #1 I'd not say a whole lot about the top20, that's gonna change a lot when he and his gal m8s all get deleted...

-QS- · 27 Mar 2003, 16:02

ROFL Sun_Tzu

Mi5: can u list races like this:

10 zikos
7 terran
2 cath
1 xan

(example)

mens · 27 Mar 2003, 17:47

top 10 is (afaik)

4 ziks, 3 xans, 2 cath, 1 terr.

Mi5 · 27 Mar 2003, 19:31

changes all the time, when it settles down a bit more il write it out in more detail

storeslem · 27 Mar 2003, 23:04

A thief/brig has more firepower than any of the terran FR...

Sun_Tzu · 28 Mar 2003, 00:49

Quote:

Originally posted by storeslem
A thief/brig has more firepower than any of the terran FR...

and both shoot so late no-one needs to care. frankly, if you're gonna try attack me with co-only as ziko yer fecked, my pegas eat you up. if you add fi then my hydras will target hose co before they shoot still and my pegas will eat up the fi instead.

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 11:11

Quote:

Originally posted by storeslem
A thief/brig has more firepower than any of the terran FR...

Cent > thief

and yes, the terran scores are unreflective, since DE is new, give it a week and you'll see that the top 20 is nearly all terran and zik (just as I predicted btw)

Knight Theamion · 28 Mar 2003, 12:07

hydra's ? what's a hydra ?

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 12:10

Hydra is the most underused underated ship for the terrans knocking around to be fair.

ask a terran who likes hitting xan (smart lad) what a hydra is, and he'll explain that it's the ship that makes it sooooooo much easier.

Knight Theamion · 28 Mar 2003, 12:14

If you are a big terran, far in the round you just go bashing arround, you only need wyverns and pegs to do that, escorted with about 20%/30% chimeras and you're fine. No hydra's needed.

Hydra's were in r7 and r8, and as I designed them r6 'teh suck'

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 12:32

hydras owned in rnd 6 and you know that so don't talk nonsense

and wyverns don't flak out bombers and hit them back either

There are no targets you want to kill the DE on to get your pegs through except zik, and you shouldn't hit zik anyway, besides the wyverns cause as many probs as they solve with ziks due to the buccs.

There are times you want to hit FR and or co, for which hydras do it better, plus they allow more pegs to fire just as the chim flak strat does.

Stop thinking so linearly theam

Knight Theamion · 28 Mar 2003, 12:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Wombat
hydras owned in rnd 6 and you know that so don't talk nonsense

and wyverns don't flak out bombers and hit them back either

There are no targets you want to kill the DE on to get your pegs through except zik, and you shouldn't hit zik anyway, besides the wyverns cause as many probs as they solve with ziks due to the buccs.

There are times you want to hit FR and or co, for which hydras do it better, plus they allow more pegs to fire just as the chim flak strat does.

Stop thinking so linearly theam

The whole idea of PA is focussing your fleet in one direction, you don't want to cover all edges, it weakens you.

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 12:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
The whole idea of PA is focussing your fleet in one direction, you don't want to cover all edges, it weakens you.

oh agreed completely, I've been trying to drill that point into a lot of people lately, who still insist on building ships like cutlass or gryphons since they say the alliance needs them (when infact they'd be better building what they're good at and letting other races pick up on thiose areas)

But lets suppose you focused on hitting xan as a terran. Hydras would be by your criteria a great ship. see?

Sun_Tzu · 28 Mar 2003, 18:28

Say what you say about the hydra, I've used it before and I'll use it in the future and both rounds I've played terran I've been top100, guess I just don't know what I'm doing...

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 18:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
Say what you say about the hydra, I've used it before and I'll use it in the future and both rounds I've played terran I've been top100, guess I just don't know what I'm doing...

to be fair, if your "side" won, that means you were about 80th rank (removing those players who hi scored whilst their side lost) in your winning alliance or block. Which isn't such a class achievement after all now is it?

(hydras still rock but I've been getting tired of your attitude of late, it's almost as bad as mine)

Sun_Tzu · 28 Mar 2003, 18:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Wombat
to be fair, if your "side" won, that means you were about 80th rank (removing those players who hi scored whilst their side lost) in your winning alliance or block. Which isn't such a class achievement after all now is it?

(hydras still rock but I've been getting tired of your attitude of late, it's almost as bad as mine)

well, this round I've still got time to go and I haven't even gotten my whole attack fleet yet

Also, the last round my wasn't on the winning side, I was on the side of the backstabbed and the uni had 36-7k players, so a bit more than now o.O

Still, yeah, my head is swelling up pretty badly, really could need a whopping soon(though let's hope that doesn't happen)...

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 18:58

36-7k players?

which round was that?!?!

(well met btw

)

Sun_Tzu · 28 Mar 2003, 22:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Wombat
36-7k players?

which round was that?!?!

(well met btw )

rnd7, 36-37k active planets if my memory serves me correct. (though o/c a large part of these were n00bs and so forth, but that's life for you :P)

Iceaxe · 29 Mar 2003, 01:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
rnd7, 36-37k active planets if my memory serves me correct. (though o/c a large part of these were n00bs and so forth, but that's life for you :P)

Your memory doesn't serve you correct.

There were about 20-25k planets in r7.

Sun_Tzu · 29 Mar 2003, 02:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Iceaxe
Your memory doesn't serve you correct. There were about 20-25k planets in r7.

Are you sure? was it 36k in rnd6 then? hmm, indeed I am growing old and my memory is growing faint :/

Wombat · 29 Mar 2003, 03:11

I don't remember the numbers being anything like that high, post p2p.

Knight Theamion · 29 Mar 2003, 03:26

Shall we count this again tomorrow ?

Iceaxe · 29 Mar 2003, 04:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
Shall we count this again tomorrow ?

If I had some scans I would.

Yeah it was 20-25k planets in r7, and a bit more then that in r6, but thats planets and that differs from the number of actual players. Hell ~700 planets were deleted alone in killmarks bot army.

Sun_Tzu · 29 Mar 2003, 17:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Iceaxe
If I had some scans I would.

Yeah it was 20-25k planets in r7, and a bit more then that in r6, but thats planets and that differs from the number of actual players. Hell ~700 planets were deleted alone in killmarks bot army.

700? damn, thought it was 500, would sound a lot better, "the Killmark 500" (compare: the indy 500)

storeslem · 30 Mar 2003, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
and both shoot so late no-one needs to care. frankly, if you're gonna try attack me with co-only as ziko yer fecked, my pegas eat you up. if you add fi then my hydras will target hose co before they shoot still and my pegas will eat up the fi instead.

Pegasi are good against all CO, not only Brigs/Thiefs, so attacking a Pegasi monger with a Xan/Zik CO simply isn't an issue.

And yes they have high init, as the rest of the zik ships, but that doesn't mean they don't do damage. If your ships arent even going to survive to shoot in the first tick, you wouldn't engage in that battle anyways.

Deathrow · 1 Apr 2003, 10:40

About half my fleet at this point is fi/co, i havent been able to lay my hands on alot of vults so i cant attack alot with them yet, but they do really hurt in numbers, try calcing a load of corsairs and a load of brigs against pegs ^^. Thiefs i dont find v usefull, i dont want to steal fi, as its quite useless

I dont think its doable to do all fi/co as zik as youll get mullered when the bigger ships get out, and you are chanceless against a peg heavy terran (almost all ters).

The other half of my flet are other ships, which i wont tell because im trying something i hope others havent thought about :P

spectrum · 1 Apr 2003, 10:49

Quote:

Originally posted by storeslem
Pegasi are good against all CO, not only Brigs/Thiefs, so attacking a Pegasi monger with a Xan/Zik CO simply isn't an issue.

And yes they have high init, as the rest of the zik ships, but that doesn't mean they don't do damage. If your ships arent even going to survive to shoot in the first tick, you wouldn't engage in that battle anyways.

pegs arent really a danger. simply flak with corsair. yes those corsair die, but they eat up 3 damage each. -> 1peg kills 3 corsair. a reasonable low cost for me. as your pegs will get slaugthered afterwards and not get a chance to shoot again.
also remind the high agility + reasonable armor of the brigs. they dont die as easy as suggested here.

Sun_Tzu · 1 Apr 2003, 12:04

Quote:

Originally posted by spectrum
pegs arent really a danger. simply flak with corsair. yes those corsair die, but they eat up 3 damage each. -> 1peg kills 3 corsair. a reasonable low cost for me. as your pegs will get slaugthered afterwards and not get a chance to shoot again.
also remind the high agility + reasonable armor of the brigs. they dont die as easy as suggested here.

/me goes into marketing mode

That's why YOU need the Hydra! Yes! It's the ultime weapon to combine with the ever popular Pegasus! While the Pegasus fires at fighters and moves on to covettes the Hydras trashes down the other way; starting from frigates and then hitting corvettes! Now this mean killing machine fleet means that a Zikonian with Corsairs and Brigs combined with some stolen Vultures will get their arses kicked every time! What a wonderfull day it is to be alive and witness the power of the Hydra!

/me exits marketing mode

ps. Though I can't see why a terran would want to hit a ziko much, nore why a ziko would want to hit a terran with a fleet like that, he'll just run and get some vsh, beetles and spiders to replace his fleet...

aif · 1 Apr 2003, 12:25

the point is :

1 zik co/fi fleet
with loads of thives
2 u get those F***ing vults (if that mean u look 4 a NOOB with some L one fleet and hope u get some, u will do that !!!!)
3 yes pegs are still a danger .... but as u get those vults u allso go after roachs !!!
4. so if u are looking 4 an L337 fleet(fi/co)
ur main target will be cath/xan

i dont get that much vults but hey i get arrowheads and roaches in LOADS

9767 crosair
1,6k cutlases
1k brigs
1,4 k thives
524 arrows
79 vults :/
206 scarbs
678 roaches
300 phonix (heay they came with a deff mission)

spectrum · 1 Apr 2003, 13:04

Quote:

Originally posted by aif

*snip*

9767 crosair
1,6k cutlases
1k brigs
1,4 k thives
524 arrows
79 vults :/
206 scarbs
678 roaches
300 phonix (heay they came with a deff mission)

sadly i got not as much roaches as you (did prefer to hit xans) but having 105vults leaves me with 2 parallel roiding fleets.
rest of your fleet is nearly equal to mine except: i got around 250k gryphons (nice emp-flak) 100 defenders (even better emp-flak) and 200 bombers (not to any use for me atm except no1 sees them for the next 2-3das ;-) )
only thing i'm wondering about are the cutlass.. what use for them ?
m-dump?

Deathrow · 1 Apr 2003, 14:50

I really do wonder how you can get that much co's off other people....

In my battles people tend to flee if they are going to be roided, or they stay and get enough defence to really hurt you. Bashing noobs is an option but that means youd have to find alot of noobs with alot of co you can steal in a universe not so full of noobs

And fleetfarming is offcourse forbidden

SpazMonster · 2 Apr 2003, 02:22

Quote:

Originally posted by spectrum
sadly i got not as much roaches as you (did prefer to hit xans) but having 105vults leaves me with 2 parallel roiding fleets.
rest of your fleet is nearly equal to mine except: i got around 250k gryphons (nice emp-flak) 100 defenders (even better emp-flak) and 200 bombers (not to any use for me atm except no1 sees them for the next 2-3das ;-) )
only thing i'm wondering about are the cutlass.. what use for them ?
m-dump?

i don't know any terrans w/ that many gryph.. dunno how you managed to steal that many.

Sun_Tzu · 2 Apr 2003, 10:14

Quote:

Originally posted by SpazMonster
i don't know any terrans w/ that many gryph.. dunno how you managed to steal that many.

oh come on, it's a typo and you knew it when you saw it, so a pointles comment :P

spectrum · 2 Apr 2003, 13:45

was mistyped: Gryphon 251
i got them from a terran n00b together with the phx. (he did only build phx/gryphs) and frigs werent around then.
easy job for my thiefs + i kept them as emp-shield.

but still i'm a little sad that i lost all my spiders/harpies

+ roach count is still low.

and as every zik knows it becomes difficult at this stage of the game to steal fi as they are all shielded by mass-co now :-(
same applies to vsharak. would really like to have some more, but very unlikely to happen now.

even on defense missions those pegs kill all fi before my thiefs do finish the co.

additional: i think the brig is still the most underrated zik-ship (ofc not by those ziks building them ;-) )

Damon · 2 Apr 2003, 13:49

Can someone scan the top 20 again so we can see a new list?
I think a few more terrans arrived

Le Mauvais Moine · 3 Apr 2003, 19:26

Due the recent events it seems quite clear why there's some many zikos in top postition .. not that it hasn't been supected before :/

Le Mauvais Moine · 3 Apr 2003, 19:37

Due the recent events it seems quite clear why there's some many zikos in top postition .. not that it hasn't been supected before :/

Sun_Tzu · 3 Apr 2003, 21:06

1:3? indeed, it's been anticipated for a while. Now if they could take down killmarks & c/o aswell...

dabult · 4 Apr 2003, 00:45

Terran
Closed
Xand
Terran
Terran
Xand
Terran
Zik
Cathaar
Xand

Xand
Terran
Zik
Xand
Zik
Cathaar
Terran
Zik
Terran
Zik

Top 20 atm, didnt read the thread through so cant compare, but someone wanted to see it so there ya go :P

at0mic.c0w · 4 Apr 2003, 00:54

it's just like in r7 - one side is easily winning so the race with the best roiding fleet seems to be winning the race. (uh look: 'race' used in 2 meanings here... go me !!!)

Wombat · 4 Apr 2003, 01:12

7/20 are terran

so nearly a 3rd, I think that will get higher.

(it better or I'll have been wrong)

Iceaxe · 4 Apr 2003, 01:15

I wouldn't say any one race is easily winning, 7 terran and if you count the closed guy 6 zik. Even xan has 5 up there, only cath is lagging with 2.

Edit: I think terran will end up with more up there also.

at0mic.c0w · 4 Apr 2003, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Iceaxe
I wouldn't say any one race is easily winning,

not race, one side alliancewise is easily winning thus roiding ability will decide about which race is best suited for r9

Iceaxe · 4 Apr 2003, 01:41

ah ok, I see your point.

spectrum · 4 Apr 2003, 08:38

every race has its advantage at a certain point ingame.
terras time is now (de-roiding fleet).
xans was before (co-roiders)
cats will come in a week or so (cr-roiders)
zik are always top :-)

Sun_Tzu · 4 Apr 2003, 10:47

the 6th zik can't be counted, and I expect more zikos to be closed in the future, it's only a mather of time...

spectrum, you are wrong, xandas time is as long as mil-scans aren't around yet, terrans time is ever after they get DE, caths time is early on and the becomes more stable for the rest of the round(cr-fleet is utter crap), zikos aren't allways top, you are basing that on TU's comment from rnd6 and what he said was that they were allways second best or so so they were all in all the best race, though I wouldn't even agree on that anymore...

xtothez · 4 Apr 2003, 23:15

And people thought I was stupid for picking Terran...
: )