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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 01:17   #101
Serio
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

emo fapfest in here lol
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 08:09   #102
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Again the common misconceptions come rolling out when the game isn't going the way a certain person wants it.

It is not a war game.

Nothing in the game makes war a good idea, the mechanics of combat push a player to need 'clean' lands, the loss of ships is frowned upon and detrimental to success because of how value contributes to score and because of the obsession with balanced stats meaning that if your fleet size falls behind you are useless.

Also the time required to effectively wage a war on someone else is not something that can be sustained by the current player base.

Alliances need to avoid incs to survive and continue round on round and keep their members re-signing up. People no longer want to be dragged out of bed at 3am to type some numbers into their computer, phone, tablet etc so the best course of action is nap everyone you can and just pick off easy targets.

The game will now continue this way till when it's finally closed as its no longer a viable model for those still silly enough to play and complain about it.

If you don't like it then move on, nothing will come of your whining
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 11:08   #103
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I never claimed Ult put "loads" on anybody, im just debunking the idea that Ultores and BowS went into the round "prenapped". I compared our ult incs to CT at around ptX00, and they had infact hit us more than they had hit CT. Seeing we were the fattest alliance, that makes sense.
As per usual, you are twisting people's words. No one said you went into the round prenapped. What was said is that you are currently napped. All your arguments have been referring to tick 400 (or "X00") and earlier.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 11:21   #104
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
HR cant be called a alliance either this day with only 27 members.
Goddamn Mistwraith, Bram, Rgat & Appie, they could have told me HR wasn't an alliance this round when they let me back in
I feel betrayed!
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 11:39   #105
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
As per usual, you are twisting people's words. No one said you went into the round prenapped. What was said is that you are currently napped. All your arguments have been referring to tick 400 (or "X00") and earlier.
Well atm, we have no NAP with Ultores, so what was said was simply wrong.
We arnt hitting Ultores atm, but the NAP we had with them ran out PT596.
Who are you getting your intel from? Nelito?
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 12:04   #106
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I have not expressed a position, merely clarified what others said.

That said, any fool can see you're friendly towards one another. Your support tag would not be napped to them if it were otherwise.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 12:08   #107
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

no official nap, though the brazils will not allow bows to hit ultores or any token involvement in anything against ultores.

For them, Ultores protection comes before Rainbows
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 12:16   #108
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Which is ironic: last round, Ultores put Rainbows' welfare before their own.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 12:18   #109
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I have not expressed a position, merely clarified what others said.

That said, any fool can see you're friendly towards one another. Your support tag would not be napped to them if it were otherwise.
And i wouldve thought all those coords in the Ult bot wouldnt attack us either, but still Asc keeps comming for us
I have Ult guy who has hit me 20 times so far this round.
If VGN was our support tag, or somehow complete under our control, why would they hit the others we have/had deals with?
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 16:03   #110
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I do find it amusing how whenever the top 1 & 2 are napped and clearly both running away with the round, BloodyButch3r makes it his mission to complain and whine about how it isn't fair and it's ruining the game, but now that his own alliance is doing it, it's all fine and good.
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 16:25   #111
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
And i wouldve thought all those coords in the Ult bot wouldnt attack us either, but still Asc keeps comming for us
What do I care about whether your intel is good or bad?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I do find it amusing how whenever the top 1 & 2 are napped and clearly both running away with the round, BloodyButch3r makes it his mission to complain and whine about how it isn't fair and it's ruining the game, but now that his own alliance is doing it, it's all fine and good.
For the #1, napping the #2 is almost always a good strategy. If your main competitor doesn't want to fight you, it's unlikely anyone else will bother to. For the #2, though, it's almost always bad. If your main competition is outgrowing you in peacetime, and you're helping ensure it stays peacetime, how will you ever win?

Last round, Ultores contributed to round stagnation by refusing to go for the win. This round it's Rainbows. That's bad enough as is, but maybe we shouldn't view these 2 rounds as wholly separate events. Maybe we should view them as a tit-for-tat: last round Ultores let Rainbows win, in exchange for Rainbows letting Ultores win this round. Even if there's no explicit deal, the fact that this semi-block has shown up 2 rounds in a row should be a very concerning trend for HCs of all other alliances.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 5 Sep 2016 at 16:32.
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 16:52   #112
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
This is a war game after all....you get more respect for trying to win and failing than not trying and winning...
Bullshit. What Kaiba said here: http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=102

1x1 between two alliances in the same level can not shake the ranking. So whenever you complain Bows don't go against Ultores, you are probably complaining of Bows have more alliances willing to hit it than joining itself.
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 18:43   #113
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I have Ult guy who has hit me 20 times so far this round.
Yes and has been discussed once I've landed I move along. This round i started off picking targets from ults targets but then once I saw your Co ords in the bot I don't even look at them. I maybe in ult channels but I am not ult tag. I have no place saved for me so if they get filled then maybe I will just join another tag for the rest of the round. But as it currently stands I'm having way to much fun making bows hc emo about having to dc my Inc at random points
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 22:47   #114
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Again the common misconceptions come rolling out when the game isn't going the way a certain person wants it.

It is not a war game.

Nothing in the game makes war a good idea, the mechanics of combat push a player to need 'clean' lands, the loss of ships is frowned upon and detrimental to success because of how value contributes to score and because of the obsession with balanced stats meaning that if your fleet size falls behind you are useless.

Also the time required to effectively wage a war on someone else is not something that can be sustained by the current player base.

Alliances need to avoid incs to survive and continue round on round and keep their members re-signing up. People no longer want to be dragged out of bed at 3am to type some numbers into their computer, phone, tablet etc so the best course of action is nap everyone you can and just pick off easy targets.

The game will now continue this way till when it's finally closed as its no longer a viable model for those still silly enough to play and complain about it.

If you don't like it then move on, nothing will come of your whining
Yes, it is a war game, the fact people don't want to play it as such is a different matter. Fundamentally, planetarion is a war game....even says so in the "what is planetarion" page

The rest of your blurb, am not sure if it is aimed at me or not, but if it is, you're wrong. I'm perfectly happy playing the game the way we are at the moment thank you! It's going how we want it to....
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 22:53   #115
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
And i wouldve thought all those coords in the Ult bot wouldnt attack us either, but still Asc keeps comming for us
I have Ult guy who has hit me 20 times so far this round.
If VGN was our support tag, or somehow complete under our control, why would they hit the others we have/had deals with?
Stop hitting us and we will stop roiding your top planets in return...quite simple really...
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Unread 5 Sep 2016, 23:43   #116
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Maybe.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 05:12   #117
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Colt View Post
Yes, it is a war game, the fact people don't want to play it as such is a different matter. Fundamentally, planetarion is a war game....even says so in the "what is planetarion" page

The rest of your blurb, am not sure if it is aimed at me or not, but if it is, you're wrong. I'm perfectly happy playing the game the way we are at the moment thank you! It's going how we want it to....

How can it be a war game when the main objective of the game is to avoid combat whilst acquiring asteroids from other ppl?

It's essentially farmville with politics.

Only one race really profited from actual ship to ship combat and they removed that one from the stats (zik).

If you are happy with how the game plays now then really you are part of the problem with the game. This round on round nap fest kills the playerbase as there is no longer any excitement in playing.

Enjoy.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 07:00   #118
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
How can it be a war game when the main objective of the game is to avoid combat whilst acquiring asteroids from other ppl?

It's essentially farmville with politics.

Only one race really profited from actual ship to ship combat and they removed that one from the stats (zik).

If you are happy with how the game plays now then really you are part of the problem with the game. This round on round nap fest kills the playerbase as there is no longer any excitement in playing.

Enjoy.
I see your point though I still believe it's down to people's fears of losing rather than just the game itself.


I said I was happy with how we (by we I mean Ascendancy) are playing this rd, not the nap fest that's going on. The napfest between the top alliances is just plain boring.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 08:21   #119
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Colt View Post
I see your point though I still believe it's down to people's fears of losing rather than just the game itself.


I said I was happy with how we (by we I mean Ascendancy) are playing this rd, not the nap fest that's going on. The napfest between the top alliances is just plain boring.
I am of the opinion that the game itself is too centred around fleet value contributing to score. What is deemed success in the game, having a bigger score than others, is too dependant on retaining your fleet and not losing it to probability lands.

The game lacks risk and reward, it's actually invariably more profitable to never risk your ships in combat and unfortunately every time some discovers a way to obtain score than isn't fleetcentric that method gets nerfed out of the game.

The only true way to obtain a profitable war scenario is to detach value completely from score, instead relying on constructions, asteroids and xp. Making ships an expendable commodity used to increase these without impacting ones score or base ability to increase score. Then someone can truly 'wage war' on another with risk and reward without worrying that one slip up can ruin 800 ticks of gain.

With a more diverse, and uncompletable tech tree, construction infrastructure et al you could create more diverse planets and different strategies, make emp, steal, cloak all researchable by everyone but not fully obtainable by anyone. This could lead us back to one race, different plans and the lack of need for stat makers. One core set of stats and plethora of bolt ons to make each player unique.

It surely cannot be that hard to code as the base elements are already there, just not set apart and customisable.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 09:09   #120
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

The suggestion that I like most is to change the definition of 'value' to 'all resources you've mined this round'. That way, when you crash your ships, your value doesn't change. Crashing is still discouraged because with fewer ships, it's harder to gain roids. It changes the punishment for crashing from taking away past growth to taking away future growth.

I feel like completely negating the consequences of ship loss is not the way to go. If losing your ships costs you nothing, then there's no risk.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 10:02   #121
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The suggestion that I like most is to change the definition of 'value' to 'all resources you've mined this round'. That way, when you crash your ships, your value doesn't change. Crashing is still discouraged because with fewer ships, it's harder to gain roids. It changes the punishment for crashing from taking away past growth to taking away future growth.

I feel like completely negating the consequences of ship loss is not the way to go. If losing your ships costs you nothing, then there's no risk.
In my eyes the risk is that no fleet equals no reward. Those that win will prosper, those that don't won't. But if it didn't decrease your score, only potentially increase it then it has to be worth more risks ergo more combat.

The premise that actually engaging in combat with another can bring success would change the whole mind set of the game. To be able to grow your empire whilst smashing into your foes would make it enjoyable and produce some amazing breps, another thing to increase irc chatter and activity. I genuinely don't see a downside to it, napping would intact become detrimental to the cause as no combat would only get you so far.

What's your thoughts on the last part? I'm interested in other view points
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 16:43   #122
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
In my eyes the risk is that no fleet equals no reward. Those that win will prosper, those that don't won't. But if it didn't decrease your score, only potentially increase it then it has to be worth more risks ergo more combat.

The premise that actually engaging in combat with another can bring success would change the whole mind set of the game. To be able to grow your empire whilst smashing into your foes would make it enjoyable and produce some amazing breps, another thing to increase irc chatter and activity. I genuinely don't see a downside to it, napping would intact become detrimental to the cause as no combat would only get you so far.

What's your thoughts on the last part? I'm interested in other view points
Not often I agree with Kaiba, but this isn't a stupid suggestion*. I am a value player and will probably be so in the future as well, but I really like the idea.

I still would want to remove ally fleets as it's a terrible feature for an interesting round. It's far to easy to cover. I'm in Norse and we're probably one of the alliances benefting the most, compared to how we usually would do, of ally fleets, but we still think it's a terrible feature.

Also increase counting planets to either 60 or avg score * number of counting players. Would make it less benefical of def planets. They would still help to keep roids, but as it is now an ally can have 20 def planets which won't count to ally score. Def planets is another thing that makes for less interesting rounds.

Get these three things done and we might finaly have a fun round again.

*After reading the suggestion Kaiba made I would actually say I really like the idea!
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 17:31   #123
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I would suggest something that makes XP varies from negative infinity to positive infinity.

Each planet would get some kind of bonus each day like:
- no attack launched -200 xp
- no roid gained on attack -200 xp
- its fleet made an attack recall +200 xp
- average value of the planets targeted by an alliance is less than 60% of alliance average value -200 xp for each member
- incs_value/alliance_value x 200 xp for each member per day
- (original_atk_fleet / crashed_fleet) x -2000 xp
.
.
.

things that would punish bottom feed, gang bang and others
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 17:53   #124
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

There has to be risk vs reward. Its up to the players to figure out what risk is worth what reward. There's been some pretty interesting suggestions brought up here, which is always good.

If you're pulling your hair out screaming at the computer because you lost numbers in an antiquated online game, you might be doing it wrong. No amount of hard-coding "fixes" is going to 'fix' anything. It's the players, not the game.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 18:06   #125
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
In my eyes the risk is that no fleet equals no reward. Those that win will prosper, those that don't won't. But if it didn't decrease your score, only potentially increase it then it has to be worth more risks ergo more combat.
I was mostly triggered by "making ships an expendable commodity used to increase these without impacting ones (...) base ability to increase score".

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What's your thoughts on the last part? I'm interested in other view points
I'm not sure if you mean the last part of your previous post or the last part of this post, so I'll answer both.

I don't know the PA code, but changing the way value is calculated should be pretty easy. A lot of other game mechanics depend on value, though (XP, ship cov op, cap rates, etc), so I expect dealing with the fallout of such a change is a bit more complicated.

I agree that a game in which war is sometimes encouraged is better than a game in which it is never encouraged. I (and I think you) don't want the game to be a 1153 tick random melee either. That's just as bad as the NAPtastic game we have now. I'll support any change that leads to such a game, whoever came up with it.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 22:16   #126
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Don't often read AD but interesting discussions here. I actually agree with Kaiba on many points. The game rules and limits don't seem realistic in terms of promoting a true War Game. Also, they are inconsistent. We have individual bash rules - a planet 10x the size of another cannot attack the other, but not group attack rules... 10 planets can attack one, so how is that different from letting a planet 10x bigger attack the smaller one?

Also, no ally bash rules. We allow 300 fleets to attack one ally, despite the fact that the ally has only 180 fleet slots available. The game sanctions blocking... in fact, punishes those who don't.

Two allies without roids or decent fleets can have a tea party fight with each other and rise in score, at least for a time, yet allies trading big fleets and roids don't seem to get anywhere.

Sometimes we look at the universe and think, well if this ally attacked that ally, that would end the stagnation and change rankings. But as has been pointed out, it doesn't usually do that. The only way to do that is with a gangbang. 1x1 wars seem to accomplish only stalemate now. The top two allies can fight and remain top 2 allies. So what is the point?

I think somebody needs to look at the suggestions in this post and take a look at Pa from scratch and make it a game that reflects the simulation of space combat it is supposed to be, make the limits consistent, and reward actions that contribute to real combat and something that feels like what space combat might be.
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Unread 6 Sep 2016, 22:32   #127
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Stop hitting us and we will stop roiding your top planets in return...quite simple really...
Well seeing it was just that easy to make the waves stop, i will make sure we stop hitting you with imediately effect
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 00:20   #128
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

It's the players, not the game.

I'm having a lot of fun this round.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 02:53   #129
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I am guessing this would be hard to code, but why couldnt fleets that have been in battle not increase in skills? As they combat more the pilots learn their ships better and the weaknesses of other ships thus a 100 vipers that hug 24 Centuars now after 5 battles could hold 30...but those centaurs also get battle hardened so that wont always be a known factor.

I also agree we need to increase the research tree with branches that if like there once was where if you choose this item you cannot go down this branch so you can have differences.

Yes as a scanner I miss the mil scan.

....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
Not often I agree with Kaiba, but this isn't a stupid suggestion*. I am a value player and will probably be so in the future as well, but I really like the idea.

I still would want to remove ally fleets as it's a terrible feature for an interesting round. It's far to easy to cover. I'm in Norse and we're probably one of the alliances benefting the most, compared to how we usually would do, of ally fleets, but we still think it's a terrible feature.

Also increase counting planets to either 60 or avg score * number of counting players. Would make it less benefical of def planets. They would still help to keep roids, but as it is now an ally can have 20 def planets which won't count to ally score. Def planets is another thing that makes for less interesting rounds.

Get these three things done and we might finaly have a fun round again.

*After reading the suggestion Kaiba made I would actually say I really like the idea!
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 08:14   #130
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Annie View Post
I am guessing this would be hard to code, but why couldnt fleets that have been in battle not increase in skills? As they combat more the pilots learn their ships better and the weaknesses of other ships thus a 100 vipers that hug 24 Centuars now after 5 battles could hold 30...but those centaurs also get battle hardened so that wont always be a known factor.

I also agree we need to increase the research tree with branches that if like there once was where if you choose this item you cannot go down this branch so you can have differences.

Yes as a scanner I miss the mil scan.

....

Shout outs to HR you are a real alliance, I tell B-Butcher this all the time, Größe spielt keine Rolle, poor guy, its how you play the game and enjoy yourself.

landen in dieser Runde die Zeit meines Lebens in der Mutter zu haben .

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I think at one time or another the idea of 'buffs' based on experience has come up. I agree it is a great concept, it would make for a very unique role for each player and give more purpose to combat BUT the implementation would be huge and you would have to basically rip the game to shreds and start over to make it happen as the base for it just isn't there.

Doing it via the tech tree angle is probably far more viable though. Starting with a base set of areas to research that branch off into different paths to make each planets game different is probably the way to go. It should give people access to each core area (ships, travel, resources, defence, and 'special skills) but should work in a way that choices need to be made. Want all the scans then you don't have access to the advanced covops etc.

One area that I feel the game is really weak is the homeworld personalization and diversity. We are essentially all drones to the alliances that command us. Making personal choices about how your own world develops adds depth to the game and a sense of pride, something really lacking. We are all essentially a set of coordinates, our planets identical to the one next to us and those in distant clusters.

The problem ultimately lies in development though, none of this will happen or even by contemplated as there is no one to do anything about what we propose.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 14:52   #131
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Well seeing it was just that easy to make the waves stop, i will make sure we stop hitting you with imediately effect
Killerman disagreed....
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 16:08   #132
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Killerman disagreed....
Seriously? He was eta 1 when I got a message to ask him to recall.

"Immediately" means we first confirm it and then we stop targeting each other... immediately. It doesn't mean we go running after anything in the air and magically get it to recall. We're happy to stop posting targets, and forbid members to fly at you... starting when we agree formally to it. Anne gave you my contact, let's talk. If we have trouble with angry people, let's do in-game for 72 hours, give everybody a break from this pointless tit-for-tat. That way we don't have to police solos.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 16:42   #133
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Look, here's the thing. That cessation of hostilties Colt offered in his post? Well, he probably shouldn't have. It might have worked a couple of weeks ago, before you were as hostile to us as all other alliances combined, but not today. In fact, 2 weeks ago, we made almost exactly such a deal with p3nguins. We traded hits for a couple of days, a mail was sent, and we all moved onto pastures new.

I tried to minimize my damage with my "maybe", but being human, you guys read the post you wanted to read and not the post you didn't. In turn, Anne read Colt's post and then your ingame mail and thought she'd get things rolling.

The killerman thing is an excuse, but I don't think we need to justify ourselves. Ascendancy is perfectly happy with the present situation. You will drop out of the top 3 long before we run out of ships. Why would we want anything to change?

For the record, you offer was fair, and if we were in different positions, I would have seriously considered accepting it. But we're not.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 16:48   #134
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

One thing I'd like to add to mz's post:
We're actually having fun, you should try it.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 16:54   #135
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Look, here's the thing. That cessation of hostilties Colt offered in his post? Well, he probably shouldn't have. It might have worked a couple of weeks ago, before you were as hostile to us as all other alliances combined, but not today. In fact, 2 weeks ago, we made almost exactly such a deal with p3nguins. We traded hits for a couple of days, a mail was sent, and we all moved onto pastures new.

I tried to minimize my damage with my "maybe", but being human, you guys read the post you wanted to read and not the post you didn't. In turn, Anne read Colt's post and then your ingame mail and thought she'd get things rolling.

The killerman thing is an excuse, but I don't think we need to justify ourselves. Ascendancy is perfectly happy with the present situation. You will drop out of the top 3 long before we run out of ships. Why would we want anything to change?

For the record, you offer was fair, and if we were in different positions, I would have seriously considered accepting it. But we're not.
Just to add to this, I don't believe anything "formal" was offered

Maybe if we hadn't fleet caught 2 of your planets and proved that your war frigates are not a deterrent then you may have tried doing something sooner....you seemed perfectly happy for the situation to continue before these events...

Edit: what Rico said too!!
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 18:56   #136
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Well lets be fair, i knew you wouldnt stop hitting BowS, and everybody know that you dont hit BowS because they hit you.
And as Mz said it was "no way in hell", atleast from what i understood with the "maybe", that you would stop having fun with hitting BowS.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 19:12   #137
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Well lets be fair, i knew you wouldnt stop hitting BowS, and everybody know that you dont hit BowS because they hit you.
Actually...
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 20:27   #138
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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everybody know that you dont hit BowS because they hit you.
"Everyone" knows wrong. We did not go into the round aiming to hit RainbowS every day. That decision was made as a response to events during the round.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 22:51   #139
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
"Everyone" knows wrong. We did not go into the round aiming to hit RainbowS every day. That decision was made as a response to events during the round.
Now now mz "everyone" knows your an ult support tag and only hitting bows so ult doesn't have too. (even though you hit ult and got kicked from priv channel) (yes I'm still cheering a little for you guys )
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 23:53   #140
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Alliance DEF fleet only exists to compensate for PLed Attack Fleets and there is no reason for PLed Attack Fleets to exists if we want action and alliances competing.

Why pushes the game to be played at times when no one wants to play it?
Sorry, I'm super late to the party...

But isn't the def-point bug compensation enough? Considering it has not been removed I assume the PA-crew intends as such.

I totally agree that the ally-def-fleet-launch thingy is way unbalanced. It reduces the incentive for activity which hurts the game.
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Unread 7 Sep 2016, 23:58   #141
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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well I will use benneh as example of defense for last round!!

genuine defence should be rewarded, maybe it should be tied to value of fleet defending and not 1 ship
I really like that idea - that should be implemented imho.

That also rewards real defence over fake defence. One side effect would be to reduce the effeciency of xan defenders, since they would not be able to keep fleet at base without being 'found out'. Not sure if that is a good side effect or not right now, but still - has to be considered.
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 00:46   #142
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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But isn't the def-point bug compensation enough? Considering it has not been removed I assume the PA-crew intends as such.
To make good use of it you have to have a good activity and adjust your strat to use thee bug. Like fully using hulls 3 to defend hulls 2 incs. And still not efficient in the case of mixed classes.
The pled attack fleet gives people almost 8 hours to launch an attack. The ally defense fleet balances that very well. But in the same time, it is something totally unbalanced when it lets a single player cover an inc that needed 15 players to coordinate a live launch in the last 2 min before tick
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 01:00   #143
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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To make good use of it you have to have a good activity and adjust your strat to use thee bug. Like fully using hulls 3 to defend hulls 2 incs. And still not efficient in the case of mixed classes.
The pled attack fleet gives people almost 8 hours to launch an attack. The pled defense fleet balances that very well. But in the same time, it is something totally unbalanced when it lets a single player cover an inc that needed 15 players to coordinate a live launch in the last 2 min before tick
Excactly, last round Ultores had a war with Norsemen for example... They were doing live launches, and all I had to do was to have a scanner j-scan the whole ally at :50, :55, :57 and :59 - and then adjust ally-launched-fleets accordingly. So 2 people could stop 20-something people who kept launching and re-launching. That is totally ****ed up.

I also disagree that you need to go heavy to make use of the def-point bug thingy. As soon as you see PL - you can know when the incs show up - so you can adjust when you need to wake up in order to DC. That still makes it advantage for the defender, since if you force people to live-launch attacks, you will have no way of knowing around which ticks the attacks will come. And you can still PL defence even if it wont be with a higher hull-class, which will make it easier to dc once the incs show up.

You can also PL people who you know wont be awake when incs show, but are awake when the PL showed up.
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 01:12   #144
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Imo if the ally fleet window becomes blocked 5 min to tick it would be a good improvement already. But that would be just putting band-aid to the wound.
I would see more benefit if attacks couldnt be pre-launched. That would kill any motive to implement the ally def fleet.
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 01:18   #145
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Imo if the ally fleet window becomes blocked 5 min to tick it would be a good improvement already. But that would be just putting band-aid to the wound.
I would see more benefit if attacks couldnt be pre-launched. That would kill any motive to implement the ally def fleet.
Yeah, I agree that removing PL all together would be a good idea. But removing the ally-launch should be done regardless, and done asap.
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 02:33   #146
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Sorry, I'm super late to the party...

But isn't the def-point bug compensation enough? Considering it has not been removed I assume the PA-crew intends as such.

I totally agree that the ally-def-fleet-launch thingy is way unbalanced. It reduces the incentive for activity which hurts the game.
The def point bug arnt a intentional bug.
If people actualy did report bugs, instead of abusing them for their own advantage it wouldve been gone a long time ago.

Apparently they dont have time to fix it mid-round, or the code is so unmaintainable that they cant fix it mid-round.
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 05:05   #147
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

Why does it keep being called a bug? It's the code working as intended
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 05:27   #148
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Why does it keep being called a bug? It's the code working as intended
If it wasnt intended that you was suppose to be able to tell when a PLed fleet was launching by using the code, the code isnt working as intended.

Its a bug.
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 05:47   #149
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

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Look, here's the thing. That cessation of hostilties Colt offered in his post? Well, he probably shouldn't have. It might have worked a couple of weeks ago, before you were as hostile to us as all other alliances combined, but not today. In fact, 2 weeks ago, we made almost exactly such a deal with p3nguins. We traded hits for a couple of days, a mail was sent, and we all moved onto pastures new.

I tried to minimize my damage with my "maybe", but being human, you guys read the post you wanted to read and not the post you didn't. In turn, Anne read Colt's post and then your ingame mail and thought she'd get things rolling.

The killerman thing is an excuse, but I don't think we need to justify ourselves. Ascendancy is perfectly happy with the present situation. You will drop out of the top 3 long before we run out of ships. Why would we want anything to change?

For the record, you offer was fair, and if we were in different positions, I would have seriously considered accepting it. But we're not.
That's fine. This thing doesn't make sense to us so we offered to do our part to end it. We're still open to it and have stopped targeting you, so it's up to you. Cheers
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Unread 8 Sep 2016, 06:09   #150
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Re: R68, who plays? who wins?

I'm sure I missed something...what's this 'bug' all about?
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