User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 30 Mar 2016, 16:44   #51
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I did say that I played these rounds; I know what the stats looked like (and I actually looked at them very recently for completely unrelated reasons) I simply was asking for how weapons speed and agility made a difference to things - in the context of the thread I was really asking why a statsmaker would want to include them. Frankly I dont remember combat being very different when they were in effect. This ultimately seems not surprising as the answer from both you and Mz is that it does not make much difference - presumably why it was taken out.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 30 Mar 2016, 16:49   #52
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,579
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Weaponspeed/Agility allowed for "faster" (Agility) ships like Fi to avoid a lot of damage against "slower" firing turrets, as fewer shots actually hit.

Not entirely sure it added anything other than over-complicating the stats, and making it harder to produce a decent set. I seem to remember there being some oddities that popped up with various ships due to weaponspeed/agility issues between them and ships potentially shooting at them.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline  
Unread 30 Mar 2016, 23:53   #53
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
I did say that I played these rounds; I know what the stats looked like (and I actually looked at them very recently for completely unrelated reasons) I simply was asking for how weapons speed and agility made a difference to things - in the context of the thread I was really asking why a statsmaker would want to include them. Frankly I dont remember combat being very different when they were in effect. This ultimately seems not surprising as the answer from both you and Mz is that it does not make much difference - presumably why it was taken out.
Sorry for trying to explain it to you then.
Atleast someone else who havnt recently been looking at those sets might find it informative
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 31 Mar 2016, 05:51   #54
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
hahaha.
As i said, you were never intending to make any.
If I was never intending to make them then why as I stated did I make some
Kaiba is offline  
Unread 31 Mar 2016, 19:14   #55
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Sorry for trying to explain it to you then.
Atleast someone else who havnt recently been looking at those sets might find it informative
Yes they might.
My irritation at your constant blaming and doing down of p3n in other areas of the forums is bleeding over into this one, for that I apologise. Your information was not what I asked for but was perfectly informative and included useful sources - always a plus in my book.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 31 Mar 2016, 22:33   #56
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
Yes they might.
My irritation at your constant blaming and doing down of p3n in other areas of the forums is bleeding over into this one, for that I apologise. Your information was not what I asked for but was perfectly informative and included useful sources - always a plus in my book.
BB actually makes a good point or a helpful post every now and then; the difficulty lies in identifying it!

I'll reformat my set to be more alike what people want, but I won't go past submitting it. I've found Jintao's 'process' rather tedious and unproductive, sometimes with results I did not agree with.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 3 Apr 2016, 11:32   #57
Jintao
The evil stats guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 242
Jintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of light
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I've looked over the different options and i think it would be best to just finish patrikc's set from last round and use it for r67

I've contacted patrikc about it. Once i talk to him about it we'll put the set up for discussion so we can find any potential issues before it's finilized.
Jintao is offline  
Unread 3 Apr 2016, 12:06   #58
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

You did not allow much time for submissions (I had not even noticed the thread before the submission date was past), and then go for a set that a large number in the community disliked so much they were willing to go for a very xp/xan heavy set instead. I hope the set has been radically overhauled.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 4 Apr 2016, 01:52   #59
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I know there are multiple people out there who has a "ready for submission" set, i think the biggest issue is that Jintao ask for people to make sets in a very distinctive manner, and those sets usualy gets bad critics from the playerbase.

I would suggest that we just re-run the set we have been rerunning over-and-over-and-over again, as its the only one that meet Jintaos initial demands.
We know what we are getting with that set, and we should just keep running it for those rounds thats none of the sets that is offered is acceptable.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 4 Apr 2016, 06:33   #60
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao View Post
I've looked over the different options and i think it would be best to just finish patrikc's set from last round and use it for r67

I've contacted patrikc about it. Once i talk to him about it we'll put the set up for discussion so we can find any potential issues before it's finilized.
So we should expect you to 'throw' another unbalanced set together after public backlash against Patrikcs set.

De ja vu
Kaiba is offline  
Unread 4 Apr 2016, 07:34   #61
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

As I've said before I can make a set very similar to the one I submitted except without Fr/De targeting each other, making it much less defensive.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 4 Apr 2016, 07:54   #62
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
As I've said before I can make a set very similar to the one I submitted except without Fr/De targeting each other, making it much less defensive.
There is nothing wrong with the original set, what is wrong is the process of picking them and the strength of will of those in charge
Kaiba is offline  
Unread 4 Apr 2016, 09:24   #63
Paisley
The brother of Spammer
 
Paisley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,321
Paisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to all
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

ive been quite disappointed with the stat proposals ... no other takers?
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
Paisley is offline  
Unread 4 Apr 2016, 22:02   #64
Papadoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 155
Papadoc is a jewel in the roughPapadoc is a jewel in the roughPapadoc is a jewel in the roughPapadoc is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
As I've said before I can make a set very similar to the one I submitted except without Fr/De targeting each other, making it much less defensive.
Please do that and lets see what it looks like pre jintao input.


__________________
BOOM
Papadoc is offline  
Unread 5 Apr 2016, 06:57   #65
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Tbh since the main objection to your stats Pat was that it was too fortable at the cost of allies who dont pl def all you need to do is make some ally def ships better at the same time as reducing the gal def ships. I don't think there was anyone saying the set was totally unbalanced.

p.s. are they up anywhere atm?
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 5 Apr 2016, 17:06   #66
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

They are up at beta.

In my opinion, higher class ships should be better than same ETA ships, and there were plenty of alliance options. Only Etd doesn't have alliance ETA anti-Fi.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 5 Apr 2016, 18:01   #67
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Thanks. Do we get a chance to discuss them this time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Only Etd doesn't have alliance ETA anti-Fi.
You sure? Looks like Terran does not either; their only anti fi is the War Frigate.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 5 Apr 2016 at 18:12.
booji is offline  
Unread 5 Apr 2016, 21:22   #68
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Ah indeed, a few weeks of playing have faded away the details in my mind, I guess.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 6 Apr 2016, 01:08   #69
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Just looking at it.
No race has maximum 8 "combat ships"?
Have jintao told you to redo it?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 6 Apr 2016, 05:17   #70
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

No, he has not, and I would not redo them for that reason.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 6 Apr 2016, 16:20   #71
Caj
speed demon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 316
Caj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

i would change cutlass to kill and cutter to steal.
at minute i think zik kill too many ship classes, doing this swap would also let them steal fi, and zik should steal all classes they can build
__________________
please find below my prestigious planet finishes:
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 67 - Rank 24 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 81 - Rank 19 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Caj is offline  
Unread 6 Apr 2016, 17:59   #72
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

They can already steal Fi?..

Doing this also removes Frig's ability to attack anything, sorry but that's a terrible change.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 7 Apr 2016, 14:32   #73
Caj
speed demon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 316
Caj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

still think they kill too many ship classes. im a traditionalist, zik should kill 3 classes max ;P
__________________
please find below my prestigious planet finishes:
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 67 - Rank 24 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 81 - Rank 19 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Caj is offline  
Unread 8 Apr 2016, 03:31   #74
Paisley
The brother of Spammer
 
Paisley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,321
Paisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to allPaisley is a name known to all
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

can you explain your thinking behind your beta stats so I know weather to take them to the woodshed or not?
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
Paisley is offline  
Unread 8 Apr 2016, 07:39   #75
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
can you explain your thinking behind your beta stats so I know weather to take them to the woodshed or not?
You keep saying this every round, but nothing comes from it

Lets just say that zik/etd aint suppose to steal into any "interesting fleet compositions".
Cov-opping CO pods with cat also looks doable how ever.

They are basicly a ST set, and very "boring looking" to me personaly.

WIth offensive sets i usualy start look at Xan, as in most sets where defence might be less worthwhile people just tend to lean towards attacking.

While ETD FI can be stopped "easily" at allie eta, XAN CO "can't".
Xan CO just seems to be way stronger than Etd FI?

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=t8cx73a5nodn6od

By no means, they cannot free land "everything".

------

For me zik/cat FR is a no-go.
They are not particulary strong vs its "counterpart" FR. It also leaves a big hole vs BS as its defence synergy aint favourable.
They are the weak vs FR themself.
EMP eff is very low.

-------

Ter/cat BS is possibole, but very unfavourable from my point of view.
De seems to come out on top vs BS.
Their defence vs FR is weak.
The eff of the cat BS is disturbingly low?

-------

Zik/ETD CR could be decent, as its prolly the most unfavourable for DE to hit into.
I think DE is still a stronger option due to having cloak ability.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 9 Apr 2016, 06:22   #76
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Not a bad write up, BB.

Etd Fi, specifically the Sylph, probably needs to be stronger in order for it to do what it's supposed to: strike quick and hard vs planets that either have their Fr out or are simply weak against Fi. Increasing its damage, perhaps at the cost of 1 armour, might help with that.

Xan Co is supposed to be similar to this round's except spread over 3 ships, I think it'd be more balanced that way. It's the whole reason I went with Xan Co instead of Fi, so that it's targeted by 3 classes.

I think Fr is not as strong as De but has an easier time landing due to EMP. I disagree with you on Cat/Zik having poor synergy vs Bs, but that's because the Mantis should have higher ERes. If you go Mantis/Rogue, Mantis are very cheap making them good flak for Rogues who then fire before Ter Bs.

De was obviously the biggest concern of many. I think it's very solid on defense, and perhaps slightly too easy to attack with as it prefires everything when combined, but you really don't need much value in any class to force a recall. They are the spacebricks, hard to attack, hard to attack with. Note that efficiencies are higher than where I wanted them.

I like where Cr is, my only concern was that both Zik and Etd have 4 ship builds with Fr/Cr that could make them pretty good defensively.

Ter/Cat Bs is supposed to be more offensive - if you put most of your resources into two ST ships, the result should be that you are strong against two classes, one fleet is strong, but you are weaker against the rest. Roach should definitely be 10-20% more efficient, though.


Going over the stats, my biggest complaint is that my unique EMP interactions were removed. Beetle, Mantis and Creditor are supposed to have higher relative ERes (similar to Recluse) to compensate for firing later. Instead now they just get frozen as usual and you need like 200% value in Beetle to stop a Fi inc - noone will choose Beetle over Wasp in this scenario (aside from support planets).

EMP efficiencies do still need a closer look, though, and settle somewhere between where they are and where r66's have ended up.
Patrikc is offline  
Unread 2 May 2016, 18:48   #77
Jintao
The evil stats guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 242
Jintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of lightJintao is a glorious beacon of light
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Patrikc sadly didn't have time to finish his set so i tried to finish it based on the instructions he gave me before he left on vacation.

You can find the set Here

Pat's requested changes:
Emp changed (EMP eff's have been increased & Recluse, Beetle, Mantis and Creditor have been given good EMP armor )
Make ETD fi stronger vs FR (Sylph has been made cheaper)
Make De a bit weaker (Bolt thrower & Bomber have been weakend)
Make Fr a bit stronger vs DE (Ghost has been weakend & Clipper has been made stronger )

Hopefully this solves all the concerns people have with pat's set since it's most likely going to be used for R67.

If there are any other concerns please post them up below.
Jintao is offline  
Unread 2 May 2016, 20:00   #78
Caj
speed demon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 316
Caj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

sorry Im out of the loop.
I thought this was discussing BB's set for r67?

Are we to start discussing Pats set? I just opened these.... Etd only 1 steal ship? Zik 4 kill ships? (i look at the basics...and I like steal ships)
Nice to see only 2 pods for each race



(edit; just looked again, with these I would go zik FICO, steal to cover DE and have shittons of mixed FICO. I'd build Buccs to cover CR(and to steal into my chosen BS defence..) and build Rogues for anti BS)
__________________
please find below my prestigious planet finishes:
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 67 - Rank 24 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 81 - Rank 19 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)

Last edited by Caj; 2 May 2016 at 20:19.
Caj is offline  
Unread 2 May 2016, 20:16   #79
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I thought when I saw this set again after this round I would think this set looks good by comparison but I find I still utterly loath them. The cat fr hole looks so totally contrived. Two races can have concentration of force; xan and etd... But with xans it is de and co not fr and cr, which is the better choice? The emp averages seem pretty high too... Though that might be because this is really a ST set masquerading as MT, which is probably why ppl voted for the real McCoy last round. I also like some things to be traditional; Ter should be harder to emp than other races and zik should not be terrans in red!
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 2 May 2016, 21:03   #80
Caj
speed demon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 316
Caj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

SHIT just noticed that Cath FR hole. Agree with booji. Needs fix.

Need Ter to be tougher and Zik to have more steal ships and less kill ships
__________________
please find below my prestigious planet finishes:
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 67 - Rank 24 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 81 - Rank 19 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Caj is offline  
Unread 2 May 2016, 23:21   #81
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Unless forced by alliance why build?
The phoenix; The drake is a pretty good ship, it has the initiative over some though not all fr.
The syren; if you already have drakes why invest in another anti bs ship?
The beetle; if the creditor prefires it and the wasp prefires etd fi?
The phantom; you need an anti cr ship, and your only option is the Revenant which is t1 co like the phantom
The cutlass; you could have a ship in a roiding fleet, the cutter which also fires before etd fi fires at it
The lancer & recluse; when instead you can have the guardian in a roiding fleet doing both their jobs at once

Finally; why make etd’s only steal ships really steal into fr rather than one of their two roiding fleets?
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 3 May 2016, 03:10   #82
Caj
speed demon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 316
Caj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the roughCaj is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

i would build cutlass to steal FI

i just said id play zik fico with these stats :P

agree with other ships tho. and etds steal ability sucks. they should steal fi.
__________________
please find below my prestigious planet finishes:
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 29 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 67 - Rank 24 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 81 - Rank 19 - Norsemen (Zik)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Caj is offline  
Unread 3 May 2016, 07:56   #83
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I certainly would not deny that there may be reasons why you might want to build ships that otherwise look inferior beyond ally instructions; for example there may be less ships around that target them, and they likely will have the -5% cost reduction, everyone likes a sale even if what you are buying looks like junk! And yes in ziks case you may want to steal (though into a class you can't build much of yourself and would simply be spreading out your fleet). However I am not sure they are good enough reasons to justify why there are these ships that on paper look like they have other better options. Instead the second options should be a good choice; one ship should be good for one roiding fleet and the other for the second, instead these seem to be simply making up the numbers.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 3 May 2016, 08:14   #84
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Im not sure its a good idea to suggest that the set that was unfavourable last round should be run after how disliked the set that got chosen last round seemed to be?

As i said earlier, it dosnt look like zik/etd is suppose to be able to steal into anything "interesting", and they got "normal" vs all shipclasses basicly, wich isnt a problem in itself though, but someone might dislike this perhaps?

The lack of "easy alliance options" though is for me the part id dislike the most. It kinda leaves you with two options, pick a mixed strategy over diffrent roid classes, or get support planets to abuse with the new "allie defence fleet option".
This is more a personal taste thingy, it dosnt mean a set wont play out good.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 11 May 2016, 06:09   #85
M0RPH3US
idle
 
M0RPH3US's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 967
M0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really niceM0RPH3US is just really nice
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Xan and zik both need to build only attack ships and have all classes covered with 2 full attack fleets as a result. Specially for xan that's a huge advantage I dislike.
Ter can't roid zik no matter the build. Same goes with xan trying to roid ter. ETD will have a hard time roiding zik, and only possible with cr.
I would like a set where every race can roid the other 4, not with all available podclasses. But at least with one of em.
Teamups being mandatory for single races I dislike or target restrictions like mentioned above. If I pick ter I know I will never be able to roid zik without a diffrents race support. Makes the race less appealing to me
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"Its not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
M0RPH3US is offline  
Unread 11 May 2016, 18:30   #86
Joseph
Error
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 356
Joseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really nice
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

And that stat posted by appoco??
Not going to be used??
__________________
#braSilFTW
Joseph is offline  
Unread 11 May 2016, 20:57   #87
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Appoco posted a set?
http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats is BB's
http://xmas.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats is Pat's
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats is m0's
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 11 May 2016, 21:23   #88
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Posted in the "announcement" im pretty sure he meant.
The one u quoted?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 11 May 2016, 22:20   #89
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

In which case the answer to Joseph seems to be we don't know and are waiting for Jintao to enlighten us.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 11 May 2016, 23:07   #90
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
In which case the answer to Joseph seems to be we don't know and are waiting for Jintao to enlighten us.
Indeed, he is obviously been active reading the forums, but seems like he either hasnt decided on something or cba to answer.
Wierd behaviour
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 08:48   #91
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I spoke to, as far as i know, a "connected guy", and he said that they havnt decided on the stats yet. So it could be either one, or maybe like the last two rounds, a set nobody has even seen before.

Is there any mafioso who can tell us more?
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 09:32   #92
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Apparently, from inside sources, this set could be the frontrunner for next round: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...iXk/edit#gid=0

Apart from the ship names, it looks like something new and exciting.
I think its pretty well balanced aswell in its own way
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 13:56   #93
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao View Post
A few guidelines to start with:
  • Steal ships can't chain steal into a class they can't naturally steal into or steal there own class
  • 2 pod classes / race
  • Maximum 8 combat ships / race (excluding pods, sk's and resource ships)
Doesn't it break these three rules pretty gratuitously so surely it can't be in contention!
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.
booji is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 15:37   #94
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
Doesn't it break these three rules pretty gratuitously so surely it can't be in contention!
If you make the rules, you can break the rules.
Dont kill the messenger
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 15:39   #95
Dworschi
MH r0x0r0r
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Austria - near Vienna
Posts: 57
Dworschi is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

I like the 4 pod set, only the names are a little bit gay, I'ld rework them :P
__________________
[gsu]
Dworschi is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 15:58   #96
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,719
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dworschi View Post
I like the 4 pod set, only the names are a little bit gay, I'ld rework them :P
Yea, they went with names of known cheats, wierd they left out the likes of clouds, armageddon and mark
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 16:14   #97
TheoDD
Registered User
Othello Champion, Solitaire Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
TheoDD has a spectacular aura aboutTheoDD has a spectacular aura about
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Got to love how Ronin got his name twice in that set.
(Ronin and Ninor) Anyways, nothing but love for him.
Can't ever remember Plaguuu cheated, and probably several others on that list.
TheoDD is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 19:58   #98
fortran
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
fortran is a jewel in the roughfortran is a jewel in the roughfortran is a jewel in the rough
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Apparently, from inside sources, this set could be the frontrunner for next round: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...iXk/edit#gid=0

Apart from the ship names, it looks like something new and exciting.
I think its pretty well balanced aswell in its own way
The ship names should stay. The set concept seems very new and exciting indeed. I hope they are not ditched in the last minute.
__________________
mxy
fortran is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 20:11   #99
booji
a bucket
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
booji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to beholdbooji is a splendid one to behold
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Having suggested having ter with emp and other oddities here on the forums before, and considered 'all etd' with Jintao before I have to say I am rather disappointed with this set. To me this simply makes all the races look the same; it is boring. And it is boring when it did not have to be. Having all races etd style did not mean that race characteristics had to be ditched. They still could have been distinctive even with all having all shiptypes.

On a wider issue I would be very annoyed if we once again get given a stats set without there having been any prior discussion and input into it. This set should probably be in the running for round 68, not 67. Though that is not to say that there is no time for discussion now; but the impression we have been given is that it should be decided well in advance of signups.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy

Otterly an Otter.

Last edited by booji; 12 May 2016 at 20:19.
booji is offline  
Unread 12 May 2016, 21:26   #100
Joseph
Error
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 356
Joseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really niceJoseph is just really nice
Re: R67 Shipstats proposals

Round 67 Ticks will start Friday, 27th May at 20:00 GMT and continue for 7 weeks.
Changes for this round will be announced closer to the time. Stats are available on http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats
__________________
#braSilFTW
Joseph is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2018