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Unread 12 Sep 2014, 23:44   #1
Appocomaster
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Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I decided to post this here as mostly it's only the people reading this forum who are interested in stats.

Whilst I'd like someone to create some stats for Round 59 (submissions welcome), I'd also really appreciate if someone, preferably not in an alliance, is willing to take on the organisation of stats (perhaps with 1-2 others assisting).

I'm happy to restart the beta server and stuff as there's no easy front end way of doing some of the stats bits, but the reviewing, shortlisting etc is something I'm finding I have less time to do, so it'd be good to know someone else is able to look after it.

Please let me know here or via e-mail ([email protected]) if you are interested.

Also, if anyone has stats for Round 59 they think should be considered, we probably need to get a shortlist by next weekend.

Thanks,
Appocomaster
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Unread 13 Sep 2014, 13:42   #2
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Appreciate the thread, and the motivation. Thumbs up.
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Unread 13 Sep 2014, 13:46   #3
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

How many people play pa not in an alliance and know how to make stats? Oldies who are not playing perhaps but are they really likely to put the effort into making a stats set?
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Unread 13 Sep 2014, 14:46   #4
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

If you are stuck for a non playing stat maker I could help out
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Unread 13 Sep 2014, 15:37   #5
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

You posted just to prove me wrong, didn't you?
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Unread 13 Sep 2014, 16:18   #6
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Lol, far from it... If there is a shortage of folk to make the stats i'll have a go

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You posted just to prove me wrong, didn't you?
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Unread 17 Sep 2014, 11:25   #7
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I've had 2 submissions of stats so far; I will be getting one set in the beta environment this weekend.

So far, only Paisley has volunteered to help on a more long term basis.
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Unread 17 Sep 2014, 11:38   #8
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I would be very happy to help on a long term basis, but I cant claim to be allianceless.

I also have a stats set I am tinkering with though I suspect I wont get it done in time and you can have it for round 60 instead!
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Unread 17 Sep 2014, 18:46   #9
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Well I also can not claim to be Allianceless but I would also like to help with stats in a more long term setting. I am also willing and happy to work with paisley To make this work out.
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Unread 19 Sep 2014, 20:25   #10
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Oooo

Allianceless.... This sounds like my niche

I would be interested in helping out long term, I'll contact you appoco
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 03:32   #11
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

please dont let kaiba near stats
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 09:14   #12
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Cant we rerun stats this time? without touching em
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 10:37   #13
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Cant we rerun stats this time? without touching em
Unless you are rerunning a set from pre round 20 then most people have played with all the sets before and remember the best race to be in each.

Anything post rd45 is invariably a rehash of rd30.

We need to NEVER revisit old stats, what we need to do is changing around more things that just int and names .

What I would like to see a stats team actually do is remove certain races from certain rounds, change of remove the govs and race bonuses and use more specialised ships to create more variety.

It doesn't always have to be the stats that change, those things I mentioned have as big an impact on the round so they should change as well or instead of....
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 10:39   #14
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Kaiba is Right we need to be changing MORE than just the #'s on the stat page. We need to be seeing new Governments and NEW start up idea's things that force people, i know its going to be a crazy thought, out of their comfort zone to try and experience new things. Right now every round is basically the same just with alliances using new names but the gals that win are still the same people the planets that are t10 are still the same. We need to do something that changes that idea or atleast makes people think.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 10:40   #15
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

What would actually be amazing is if govs were attached to the end of different research branches so you had to plan which way to research to get the gov you wanted.

Cores - Corp

Infra - Tot

Hulls - Nat

Gates - Demo

Covops - Soc
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 10:52   #16
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Unless you are rerunning a set from pre round 20 then most people have played with all the sets before and remember the best race to be in each.
NO LOGIC! If people were capable of picking the best race each time, then it would never be diversity races. Everyone would go the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101
Kaiba is Right we need to be changing MORE than just the #'s on the stat page. We need to be seeing new Governments and NEW start up idea's things that force people, i know its going to be a crazy thought, out of their comfort zone to try and experience new things. Right now every round is basically the same just with alliances using new names but the gals that win are still the same people the planets that are t10 are still the same. We need to do something that changes that idea or atleast makes people think.
What makes you think you can change the game so much that these same people will loose their skills and suddenly suck big time, or atleast fall down to the level of others? And those that are not on these players level of tactical and strategical choices will not magically improve over night. You are referring to players that have ATLEAST 10 rounds under their belt, if not double that and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
What would actually be amazing is if govs were attached to the end of different research branches so you had to plan which way to research to get the gov you wanted.

Cores - Corp

Infra - Tot

Hulls - Nat

Gates - Demo

Covops - Soc
NO NO NO, what is amazing about this? Nada zit, its an overly crap idea, which makes the game even more locked on strategical choices.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 10:58   #17
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Theodd don't be bitter please, just because you make stats worse than Tia and everyone ignores you on here is no reason to be so angry.

Actually Appoco already said about changing other areas rather than just stats and tbh any variety beyond changing ints and names is a good thing now.

Regarding the govs things I don't see how it is bad to add a further tactical element into the game. Something that would actually make you plan your research to get the gov you want its better than the auto pilot that every compotent players using atm for research.

Which gov for which was purely a suggestion, maybe it's something that could randomize every round
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 11:11   #18
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Theodd don't be bitter please, just because you make stats worse than Tia and everyone ignores you on here is no reason to be so angry.

Actually Appoco already said about changing other areas rather than just stats and tbh any variety beyond changing ints and names is a good thing now.

Regarding the govs things I don't see how it is bad to add a further tactical element into the game. Something that would actually make you plan your research to get the gov you want its better than the auto pilot that every compotent players using atm for research.

Which gov for which was purely a suggestion, maybe it's something that could randomize every round
i'm not bitter or pissed, i know i don't make worse stats than you or tia and whoever... and your attempts at being offensive is just lame.
(keep trying)

And your ideas are shit... they don't add a tactical element to the game. Keep imagining it. Would love to see you in those regular t10 planets tia were talking about, but you like so many others don't have what it takes.

Hopefully if you are to be one of those editing this, that you will come up with something good, but atm you are FAR off.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 11:40   #19
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Frankly who gives a **** about the t10, it equates to about 1% of the playerbase. We are talking about the other 99% that are bored shitless for 6 weeks and slowly give up on the game because there is nothing to make the game interesting for them or varying beyond the fact that the Pegasus is now called a War Frigate and that it was int 5 and is now int 6. That is all most the playerbase cares about when looking at stats, the int.

What might actually keep people outside your eltist pals, who will play regardless, interested is things like in depth strategy and tactics which work on a planet by planet basis and having more areas of the game that change or are randomized on a round by round basis, it gives mores longevity to the game and would help maybe keep those who leave rather than us accomodatinh the 30 odd of you that won't go away!!!
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 11:58   #20
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

So TheoDD you would rather keep things the way they are?

Every planet starts with Democracy and around tick 200-300 you switch over to either total or Corp(more likely). Do you know why everyone does this? Because there IS no better option in this game. Dist whoring will never pay dividends because of the cost of cons vs the research and time it takes to make it viable.
Value whoring with refs and Fc's is the only way to do well in this game.

We need to change the way that people look at setting up their planets rather than just demo->corp build fc's and walk away.

I do like Kaiba's idea about tying governments to research Tree's or at least making it so you don't start with the ability to pick a gov at tick 0.

This why if you truly want Corp then you'd have to research your way too it before it or what ever the requirement is. Change is a good thing especially when it comes to mechanics because the politics of this game will adapt and the people that want to win will adapt but its HOW they do this that will change the game. Right now everyone fits into a very easy stereo type that's been established over the past 10 rounds. It would be nice to see that broken up a little bit. Hell I've been suggesting making ship modifications for rounds the viable objection to it is we would need someone to code it into the game. Well we can get someone to do that. We have quite a techy group in this community im sure that somone is capable of editing the combat engine. But some things just have to change, more than just init, names or t1/t2.

Frankly these rounds are so repeditive that this game is becoming boring because of the repeditiveness. If things changed just a LITTLE bit mechanicly i feel that the game would come back to life and offer something different. I may be alone in this opinion but I doubt it, however if i am not I think things need to change.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 12:13   #21
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So TheoDD you would rather keep things the way they are?

Every planet starts with Democracy and around tick 200-300 you switch over to either total or Corp(more likely). Do you know why everyone does this? Because there IS no better option in this game. Dist whoring will never pay dividends because of the cost of cons vs the research and time it takes to make it viable.
Value whoring with refs and Fc's is the only way to do well in this game.

We need to change the way that people look at setting up their planets rather than just demo->corp build fc's and walk away.

I do like Kaiba's idea about tying governments to research Tree's or at least making it so you don't start with the ability to pick a gov at tick 0.

This why if you truly want Corp then you'd have to research your way too it before it or what ever the requirement is. Change is a good thing especially when it comes to mechanics because the politics of this game will adapt and the people that want to win will adapt but its HOW they do this that will change the game. Right now everyone fits into a very easy stereo type that's been established over the past 10 rounds. It would be nice to see that broken up a little bit. Hell I've been suggesting making ship modifications for rounds the viable objection to it is we would need someone to code it into the game. Well we can get someone to do that. We have quite a techy group in this community im sure that somone is capable of editing the combat engine. But some things just have to change, more than just init, names or t1/t2.

Frankly these rounds are so repeditive that this game is becoming boring because of the repeditiveness. If things changed just a LITTLE bit mechanicly i feel that the game would come back to life and offer something different. I may be alone in this opinion but I doubt it, however if i am not I think things need to change.
i'd rather keep it the way it is, than those options.
The only thing you guys have come up with it, is: Rush cores, pick corp. Where is the strategical? or improvement? IT IS LAME LAME LAME LAME.. And what makes you think that 90% + won't do that if this were implented? It will not make diversity, it will not bring others up to the level of your t10 players. Personally i've stopped demo -> corp. (It isn't optimal)
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 12:23   #22
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I personally would like to see different options being viable. This is a strategy game and because everything has become so optimized through repetition that rush cores pick corp is really the only option for people that want to play for a round win. Yes their is scanning and cov ops but those also have their optimal build strats that most people follow and the ones that dont follow it usually end up being so far behind that its very hard to catch up.

I want their to be a reason that someone would pick Socialism and stick with it for the duration of a round, or a reason that someone would just build 249 distorters and it be viable. The idea of changing some aspects every round would mean that planet setups and builds would change every round. Which would allow for people to try their own ideas instead having to fall into one of the cookie cutter builds.

As for your rebuttel it doesnt make any sense We are trying to SETUP a committee or group of people that would be able to brainstorm new ideas and also figure out how to implement them. This forum is suppose to be about R59 stats and setting that group up for R60+. Kaiba ,Paisley and myself are all interested and I am sure that their are others that are eager to get opinions on the table about things that can be added/removed that would make the game better.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 13:34   #23
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I don't even think its a bad idea if people like theodd leave the game in protest. These people who don't like change are holding the game back
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 15:16   #24
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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I don't even think its a bad idea if people like theodd leave the game in protest. These people who don't like change are holding the game back
again retard logic... you are so amazingly unfit for doing stats and gamestrats... i never said i would quit, i will still play much much better than you with slim effort. So kaiba, please continue being a retard.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 16:13   #25
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Having it so that you have to go through a tree (say core) to get corp only forces people to even more of the same things than they are doing now. It is a bad idea. The reason people go demo anarchy corp its because its really good. How to fix it? You make it worse.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 16:25   #26
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Would it not make more sense to make a research tree for government with you able to have a different government after each research of the tree is complete? Of course there would need to be changes to the goverenment bonuses to ensure that the governments further down the tree are better than those at the start.

Anarchy might need to be made slightly less bad too if people are likely to go through several stages of government. Although of course anarchy could be the initial stage that you are researching your way out of.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 16:30   #27
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Would it not make more sense to make a research tree for government with you able to have a different government after each research of the tree is complete? Of course there would need to be changes to the goverenment bonuses to ensure that the governments further down the tree are better than those at the start.

Anarchy might need to be made slightly less bad too if people are likely to go through several stages of government. Although of course anarchy could be the initial stage that you are researching your way out of.
then we should eliminate the race bonus's aswell, if not cath will get a great advantage on tech, on top of where they already have an advantage.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 16:36   #28
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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please dont let kaiba near stats
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 16:50   #29
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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then we should eliminate the race bonus's aswell, if not cath will get a great advantage on tech, on top of where they already have an advantage.
By eliminate you mean alter? There is no reason why cat cant still have faster research, it just cant be nearly as fast as it is now.

Or if you are particularly concerned about the cat research bonus you could make some kind of government structure to create some of the govt bonuses as well which they will clearly be less good at!
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 17:17   #30
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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By eliminate you mean alter? There is no reason why cat cant still have faster research, it just cant be nearly as fast as it is now.

Or if you are particularly concerned about the cat research bonus you could make some kind of government structure to create some of the govt bonuses as well which they will clearly be less good at!
not what i meant, but that should work if properly thought through.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 18:16   #31
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I certainly could not claim that the idea was thought through, on the contrary it was all completely spur of the moment
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 19:00   #32
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Having it so that you have to go through a tree (say core) to get corp only forces people to even more of the same things than they are doing now. It is a bad idea. The reason people go demo anarchy corp its because its really good. How to fix it? You make it worse.

As we said the goverment and tree was meerly a suggestion and it would be that governments would be changed as well. Someone suggested a while back that when you take a government that you got a bonus just like a start-up or upgrade bonus in Rp/Cp/Res/Roids etc. That would be something that I would like to get involved since taking a gov at t1 would be rare. Also putting in more than 5! govs would be not bad and you can REPLACE your government with a better one as you research them more.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 19:58   #33
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

i think the gov changes was bad, atleast the Anarchy mode shouldve been made longer.
Rerunning stats from a prior round is not problem.
Why not have a vote on stats each run we want to rerun?
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 21:11   #34
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

BB problem with that is only about 20-30 people are active on forums. When we have a player base of over 200 people. That is 10% Now if we could somehow put it up INGAME and have a vote that way on what round stats people would like to see come back maybe with a few tweaks in them and introduce a new set of govs/race traits that'd be a good start.

I also have made a set of ST stats(i know its been a while) If this is something people would want to go back to.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Not totally done but the general init and races are setup.
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 21:56   #35
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
BB problem with that is only about 20-30 people are active on forums. When we have a player base of over 200 people. That is 10% Now if we could somehow put it up INGAME and have a vote that way on what round stats people would like to see come back maybe with a few tweaks in them and introduce a new set of govs/race traits that'd be a good start.

I also have made a set of ST stats(i know its been a while) If this is something people would want to go back to.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Not totally done but the general init and races are setup.
Everyone who want roid bonus uses forums
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 22:05   #36
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I also have made a set of ST stats(i know its been a while) If this is something people would want to go back to.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Not totally done but the general init and races are setup.
finally a decent suggestion/post
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Unread 20 Sep 2014, 22:52   #37
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

im pretty sure after the last few showings tia and bitch3r should just leave stats alone tbfh yes feel free to talk about them with all your friends but quit putting suggestions in because you both fail more than scottish independence.

as i said previously before it was deleted

kaiba and tia agreeing on anything should be a clear indicator that we should be doing the exact opposite, re-use old stats.
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 00:04   #38
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I'm all about changing things up. However, people will figure out an interesting strategy that others haven't considered. Then there's much whining to "fix" it or "nerf" it. Then it goes into a dark hole and dies the next round.

Like with military centers. Same with SK's/Structure defense argument.

Governments and race bonuses should definitely be tweaked around each round. Look at the stats, consider other changes being made, and tweak those to potentially open up several new options. As of now, it doesn't really make a difference. It should.

Population never matured into what it was designed to do. I'd honestly look at that first. There's room for expansion with it other than just sliders that affect a few things by some flat percentage...which isn't affected by race or government....everyone has "100" population, with no distinction between races and governments. Boring.

Stats, at this point, are the very least of PA's worries. The game mechanics need some love too, folks.
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 00:39   #39
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Everyone who want roid bonus uses forums
And then 90% of those only ever login to the forums to get those roids..
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 01:42   #40
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

One of the things I would like to do atleast for R59 is tweak the Gov and race stats a bit. I also wanted to add another feature to governments that ties into the upgrade bonus. So that when you take your upgrade bonus you also get an additional bonus such as:

Corp: +10% mining for 100 ticks.
Demo: 7200 RP
Social: 2m of each resources
National: +20% Xp from attacking/defending for 100 ticks
Total: 5000 CP

^^ up for debat and discussion. This would give "SOME" im not saying that everyone would hop on and take another route but its a different style of play.
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 07:52   #41
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

So everyone is getting 10% mining bonus except the bs rushers who can now get 2.5 gates alongside their siege hulls at tick 17.

I like the concept but the rewards need a rethink they are not even
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 08:02   #42
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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again retard logic... you are so amazingly unfit for doing stats and gamestrats... i never said i would quit, i will still play much much better than you with slim effort. So kaiba, please continue being a retard.
Oh sorry missed this yesterday. I never said you would quit either, I said it wouldn't be bad for the game if you did.

I fail to understand how ability to play a planet qualifies someone to do stars or game strats. When this game was remotely interesting I could get a t60 planet but it's not interesting enough to play for 7 weeks.

Your OTT response to every SUGGESTION ( remember pal these are just spur of the moment ideas) actually comes across in this hilarious way that YOU are scared of change because you actually rank well now everyone has left and if we changed it up you would fail again.

PS. You may have done some amazing calculation to work out what tick to do what with your govs but 95% of the t100 will demo>Corp and invariably someone who does that will win the round, so optimal isn't nessecarily successful
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 08:58   #43
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I mean as I said it was just a brainstorm. The other idea i had was to dumb down the power of govs in terms of static bonus's, and make them more timing based. I don't know if we have the coding to make it happen.
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 09:01   #44
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

We don't have the coding for anything :P

I knew it was a brainstorm just saying that your initial bonus were a TAD ott
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Unread 21 Sep 2014, 12:37   #45
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Unless you are rerunning a set from pre round 20 then most people have played with all the sets before and remember the best race to be in each.
Good stats rarely have a clear "best" race (though there often is a clear "worst" one). Every race has its holes, and every race can make use of some other race' holes.

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We need to NEVER revisit old stats, what we need to do is changing around more things that just int and names.
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We are talking about the other 99% that are bored shitless for 6 weeks and slowly give up on the game because there is nothing to make the game interesting for them or varying beyond the fact that the Pegasus is now called a War Frigate and that it was int 5 and is now int 6.
While I agree PA is fairly stagnant, almost everything that can be done with the stats has been done. We cannot forever keep changing the wallpaper of a room that is fundamentally, well, boring. The only serious thing that has never been done is to either change or abandon the race characteristics. The last time I suggested that, half of PA went to arms because "But race X needs to be Y!!". Even then, the stats, governments and race characteristics have little impact on how the game is actually played, becaus value-whoring will still be the only reasonable strategy.

If you truly want to change the way the game is played (as I do!), then you must look beyond the numbers of the government, race and ship stats pages. I wish you luck trying to convince PA Team to do more than select a stats maker. Hell, even that is apparently something they don't have time for any more.

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I don't even think its a bad idea if some people leave the game in protest. These people who don't like change are holding the game back
Long-term, perhaps not. But in the short term, every time people leave, the universe shrinks, and no one is working on growing it. We must either appeal to the current player base (by doing very little: safe, cheap, but will eventually kill the game), or try to attract a new one (by reworking the game from the bottom up: very risky, very costly, but has a small chance of truly revitalizing the game). Attempting to do both will inevitably lead to failure.

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IStats, at this point, are the very least of PA's worries. The game mechanics need some love too, folks.
Quoted for truth. (People still do that, right?)
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 11:53   #46
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Like i have been suggesting some month ago (regarding gov/pop etc), shipstats are the least important change we need. If the energy which is invested in discussing / bitching new stats is invested in changing the game mechanics for 1 round i think we are on a good way already.

So here are some links;
Pop suggestion: here.
Government suggestion: here!
Race tweaking: here

And last but not least
Alliance point system: here!!!

While these changes are minor it will be very hard to get them implemented since the pa dev team has little time.
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 14:12   #47
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Guess ill have to post my own game change ideas soon, just to get em flamed ^^
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 14:57   #48
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Guess ill have to post my own game change ideas soon, just to get em flamed ^^
It's not about flaming (something that Theo revels in) it's just about ideas being put out, we have all played the game for long enough we know the faults, we all have differing ideas on how to fix it so let's just get them out there and try make pa better.

Cain good post, I don't nessecarily agree with your changes, but there better than what we have now
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 15:15   #49
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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It's not about flaming (something that Theo revels in) it's just about ideas being put out, we have all played the game for long enough we know the faults, we all have differing ideas on how to fix it so let's just get them out there and try make pa better.

Cain good post, I don't nessecarily agree with your changes, but there better than what we have now
Keep putting my name into your retarded comments, i don't flame good or remotely decent ideas, nor do i flame bad ideas. Just retarded ones like yours.
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Unread 22 Sep 2014, 17:53   #50
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Dear TheoDD and Kaiba,

Stop talking to each other.

Gratefully,

The rest of us.
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