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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 00:57   #51
Killeah
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

My point is just:

if you give xan 3 pods, you give them more fake options= attracting more to pick xan

If you give cath emp roiding fleets in all eta's all alliances will pick them -period, as they're essential and effective as support for atk and def = attracting more to pick cat


If you dont mind a uni with 60 % + cat/xan then go ahead, but ill wager you a free land, that's what we'll see again nxt rnd if you dont factor in he inate strenghts of the two races.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:19   #52
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
My point is just:

if you give xan 3 pods, you give them more fake options= attracting more to pick xan

If you give cath emp roiding fleets in all eta's all alliances will pick them -period, as they're essential and effective as support for atk and def = attracting more to pick cat


If you dont mind a uni with 60 % + cat/xan then go ahead, but ill wager you a free land, that's what we'll see again nxt rnd if you dont factor in he inate strenghts of the two races.
If 60% of the uni goes cath/xan, then the alliance going for ter/etd BS will have a laugh.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:30   #53
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

B-Butcher why would any alliance go ter/etd Bs when everyone else is going Xan/Cath. You have eta disadvantage and you cant even ally def vs the xan's with terrans. On top of that the xans have faking options that terran(2pods) don't.

This is your problem b-Butcher you look at this from the ally POV when you need to be looking at it from the player POV.

The fact that xan and Cath both have 2 pods means that they can fit into ANY strat where as zik/ter(2 pods) can really only fit into 2 class strats. You should make every race have 2 pods, maybe 3 pods only for etd.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:32   #54
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

What's with the 4 pod classes for ETD and every other race only having 2-3? Looks a bit biased to me, and trying to force people to go Etd heavy.

And CO looks a bit broken? It seems to not have any kill class that supports a roiding fleet.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:32   #55
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Having more pods accros the races give you more strategic options.
.
We dont need more options, we need a zik/ter FR teamup (an example) that can stand on its own and land on everyone - or close to, without low xan inits or cath emp.

Every time you add a xan and cath option you tell people to pick them instead due to their obvious advantages.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:39   #56
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
If 60% of the uni goes cath/xan, then the alliance going for ter/etd BS will have a laugh.

Quite enjoyably so, too.

However they won't be in contention for a round-win.

Still looking things over, bear with me please.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:54   #57
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Im not realy done with the WC.
The torpedo was put in as a ally def against FI.
Shouldn't be any shortage of that from other races in these stats. The offset used to be a Fr/De class space-brick (Drake or Chimera depending on the round) with heavy armor and decent damage to force a recall. It made up for the lack of Terran "ally def" against Fi/Co.

Quote:
Dagger is good if you run a few calcs on it vs cath CO/DE.
Yeah it has high ERES and looks (if I'm reading it right) like a M-sink for Ziks...but again, it looks like a niche ship.


Quote:
Not realy sure what to do with xan, as it cannot land if there is BS forts.
Land FI on every attack? Or FI fakes? Only thing any BS targets in these stats is some combination of Fr/De/Cr. FI lolwave ahoy. You've given them three ways to fake, so no real problem landing anything against BS "forts".


Quote:
I dunno how you can defend urself against FI without etd in FR/BS strats. its suppose to look messy
Not sure what you meant there...
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 01:55   #58
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
If 60% of the uni goes cath/xan, then the alliance going for ter/etd BS will have a laugh.
I will admit that the avenger is a strong atk ship, but thats the only laughable part (in a good sence) - ter will need emp again to have any shot at anything, -1 eta cloaked (fakeable) etd def, and a t1 tarantula again -1 eta.

The amount of value you need in bs to counter that leaves little to invest in def ships, as in close to none.

So you have the choice :

go all in bs and gain some roids, but loose more and end up at a value loss to your competition..

Or invest an average amount and land nothing.

I dont see the bs strategy happening, maybe, just maybe, as an all etd ally, as ter is useless to drag along in its current state
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 02:07   #59
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
We dont need more options, we need a zik/ter FR teamup (an example) that can stand on its own and land on everyone - or close to, without low xan inits or cath emp.

Every time you add a xan and cath option you tell people to pick them instead due to their obvious advantages.
We had that r55 with Tiamatas stats, maybe its a option to rerun them?
Zik/Ter dont stack up well in these stats, its doable though.
FR forts ter/zik, either go for FCs on cat/etd CO or DE, or pray for small numbers of xan fi, its doable if your just good enough.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 02:16   #60
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
Shouldn't be any shortage of that from other races in these stats. The offset used to be a Fr/De class space-brick (Drake or Chimera depending on the round) with heavy armor and decent damage to force a recall. It made up for the lack of Terran "ally def" against Fi/Co.



Yeah it has high ERES and looks (if I'm reading it right) like a M-sink for Ziks...but again, it looks like a niche ship.




Land FI on every attack? Or FI fakes? Only thing any BS targets in these stats is some combination of Fr/De/Cr. FI lolwave ahoy. You've given them three ways to fake, so no real problem landing anything against BS "forts".




Not sure what you meant there...
You would have xan FR as in fort anti FI, and ETD defenders as anti FI emp outgal FI def.
Dagger + zik CO eats up emp attackers.
EMP eff against xan is around 180%, EMP eff against Dagger is around 90%.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 02:25   #61
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
I will admit that the avenger is a strong atk ship, but thats the only laughable part (in a good sence) - ter will need emp again to have any shot at anything, -1 eta cloaked (fakeable) etd def, and a t1 tarantula again -1 eta.

The amount of value you need in bs to counter that leaves little to invest in def ships, as in close to none.

So you have the choice :

go all in bs and gain some roids, but loose more and end up at a value loss to your competition..

Or invest an average amount and land nothing.

I dont see the bs strategy happening, maybe, just maybe, as an all etd ally, as ter is useless to drag along in its current state
So you have around, 500 planets being cath/xan, 60 players maybe in your own allie, and then 200 planets of mixed of ter/zik/etd, perhaps 90 planets being ETD?
Lets be real here, its not the end of the world.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 02:29   #62
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
B-Butcher why would any alliance go ter/etd Bs when everyone else is going Xan/Cath. You have eta disadvantage and you cant even ally def vs the xan's with terrans. On top of that the xans have faking options that terran(2pods) don't.

This is your problem b-Butcher you look at this from the ally POV when you need to be looking at it from the player POV.

The fact that xan and Cath both have 2 pods means that they can fit into ANY strat where as zik/ter(2 pods) can really only fit into 2 class strats. You should make every race have 2 pods, maybe 3 pods only for etd.
FAnG went zik/cat CO r56, even though zik didnt have co pods.
I think it would be way more effective this round trying to go for such a creative strat.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 03:20   #63
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

I still say this, Why wouldn't you choose a xan/cat fi/co option. When fi/co has 1 tick to get def vs them. If you want to choose Bs then fine you allow for 2 ticks of def and since Im a xan cat ally i have fakable fr+ flack and Tara(at init 2) It will still end up being a value war, and the bs allys will not be able to stop the fi/co attack. You need to fix the init on some of the xan fi otherwise it will just dominate over everything.

Also as is stated before most ally strats these days are based around Emp because its the only way to garentee lands as well as its the only Solo-able fleets left in these strats.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 06:33   #64
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Personally, I think this set of stats wont end up with fi/co.
Its easier to defend vs fi/co with no losses or minimal losses than defending vs cr/bs.

Xan goes fi/co with fr anti bs someone that goes fr/bs terran can easily defend and attack vs this person. Sure you lose out on eta advantage but fr is still quite strong vs fi/co and bs/cr will be hard to defend against without having some fr/de heavy planets.

In the past xan has been given the CR anti BS ship due to zik/cath not having a solid kill ship vs BS. This way you could defend vs bs with either fr/de or CR. Here you lose out on that option, at least if you defend with cr your just asking to get dominated.

I would honestly say this round with these says would come down to fr/de/cr/bs with little fi/co. Just my opinion. Really hurts co that they do almost no dmg on attack until zik steal pods. Even then thieves free steal vs zik co and cath de emps cath co first. Just makes fr/de more appealing.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 07:09   #65
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
My point is just:

if you give xan 3 pods, you give them more fake options= attracting more to pick xan
I think that p3n got at least a third, and possibly up to about half of all the roids it captured this round due to pod attacks with all three classes. It being very difficult to cover for all three classes one is likely to get through unless the player accepts the loss of some of three different shiptypes to destroy a possible fake - something that quickly mounts up when having to consider padded fakes.

Blue_Esper pointed out to me when I complained about this in his set that this is not such a problem when xan is easy to kill. This is the case in his stat but not here; where xan would be playable without cloak and is not paper thin.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 07:54   #66
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=the4vr0e9w7u9dp

The problem is the xan can Fake attack the terrans with fi and can even retal fr faked as fi. The terrans really cant because 1 def fleet covers the attack where as the terran defenders are eta 8 vs eta 7. If we are talking about a fort then maybe you have a chance but the xans will ALWAYS win out because of fakes and eta advantage.

If you decide to go bs + fi/co then maybe you have a chance because terran armor is good and paired with avengers emp + armor is ok. Meanwhile the defense vs your bs is fr flack with cloaked defenders. My point here is your only counter to Xan is Bs, where Bs can Yes roid solo into xan but so can xan into both bs fleets. Not to mention there is Bs attack class from xan as well. Not to mention also that Terran are also weak to bs attacks. If you want to balance these stats out, which i hope you don't because i'd rather play with anything else including Kai's you better find a way to make xan fi less appealing.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 09:19   #67
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Isn't it Xan FR that makes Xan Fi less appealing? (which tbh I don't really like anyway, should be some other race with Fr/DE that beats Xan Fi)
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 09:40   #68
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

I haven't studied the stats in-depth, but here are some of my thoughts re: the stats;

- I really don't see the xan fi is too good argument; they have to spread their resources over three ships this round, compared to the regular two fi class ships. This means firepower overall. Also, the Tzen having init 4 also ****s them quite handily.
Yes, cath co + xan fi will be good, but there's no scenario ever in which it hasn't been.

- Personally I think there are too many FR fleets. BOTH zik and etd having an FR fleet seems a bit OTT. I can see etd + xan fr teaming up be quite popular...

- I really hate zik. THe FR fleet is unfathomably uneffective and the CR fleet, despite having nice effs, is a loose-loose affair as landing it on anything means your CR fleet going *pooof* and you being stuck with a useless att fleet.


Overall, at first glance, these stats look a lot better than I'd have thought. However I'd suggest trying to accomplish the following;

1) Make Zik CR not suck
2) Possibly make the Zik FR fleet into a DE fleet. Zik has far too many stealships imo
3) I think etd having three good + a DE roidfleet is a bit OTT. The "co for def and etd FR for att to team with xan FR" strat seems too good to me.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 10:03   #69
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
I haven't studied the stats in-depth, but here are some of my thoughts re: the stats;

- I really don't see the xan fi is too good argument; they have to spread their resources over three ships this round, compared to the regular two fi class ships. This means firepower overall. Also, the Tzen having init 4 also ****s them quite handily.
Yes, cath co + xan fi will be good, but there's no scenario ever in which it hasn't been.

- Personally I think there are too many FR fleets. BOTH zik and etd having an FR fleet seems a bit OTT. I can see etd + xan fr teaming up be quite popular...

- I really hate zik. THe FR fleet is unfathomably uneffective and the CR fleet, despite having nice effs, is a loose-loose affair as landing it on anything means your CR fleet going *pooof* and you being stuck with a useless att fleet.


Overall, at first glance, these stats look a lot better than I'd have thought. However I'd suggest trying to accomplish the following;

1) Make Zik CR not suck
2) Possibly make the Zik FR fleet into a DE fleet. Zik has far too many stealships imo
3) I think etd having three good + a DE roidfleet is a bit OTT. The "co for def and etd FR for att to team with xan FR" strat seems too good to me.
or give Zik co pods so they have another att fleet option?
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 10:48   #70
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Is emp not OP?

180-190% effective is to much no?
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 11:03   #71
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Is emp not OP?

180-190% effective is to much no?
It would be if that was overall.
Xan is at around 180%, but terran being far for sustainable.
I will change the targetting of the avenger, making the ghost less of an option in CO/BS etd strat
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 11:08   #72
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
I haven't studied the stats in-depth, but here are some of my thoughts re: the stats;

Overall, at first glance, these stats look a lot better than I'd have thought. However I'd suggest trying to accomplish the following;

1) Make Zik CR not suck
2) Possibly make the Zik FR fleet into a DE fleet. Zik has far too many stealships imo
3) I think etd having three good + a DE roidfleet is a bit OTT. The "co for def and etd FR for att to team with xan FR" strat seems too good to me.
Indeed the CR of zik is a tricky one, but i dont realy know yet what to do with it.
Adding kill ship to zik only makes sense if you make it fire first, but then u risk landing on a r55 zik wich could selfcover everything but de
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 11:31   #73
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

It doesn't have to fire FIRST, it just has to fire before some of the other races..

Also, I'm seconding the "cath is too good argument". Cath has been heavily played for a number of rounds now, time with a round where cath isnt among the two best races imo.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 11:38   #74
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

http://beta.planetarion.com/statsanalysis.pl?race=2

Pal. EMP is way OP (yet again).

I assume that Emp resistance isnt finished yet? Anything (perhaps excluding pods) over 200% is by FAR to much, tbh anything over 175% is pretty stupid, unless cath ships are very expensive etc.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 12:23   #75
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

My stats had pretty decent emp effs(barring the Beetle), perhaps use those as a guideline.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 12:26   #76
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by jermain View Post
http://beta.planetarion.com/statsanalysis.pl?race=2

Pal. EMP is way OP (yet again).

I assume that Emp resistance isnt finished yet? Anything (perhaps excluding pods) over 200% is by FAR to much, tbh anything over 175% is pretty stupid, unless cath ships are very expensive etc.
obviously the tarantula must be wrongly input into to stats
The scorpion is what the tula will look like more or less.
And i thought everyone said xan/etd was so OP, yet having it being frozen is out of the picture?
Please make up your mind.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 12:43   #77
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Anyway, i told Appoc the stats will be done by wedensday.
So i will finish up the remaining things tonight hopefully, and then its time for you to slag off it as whole.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 13:19   #78
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
obviously the tarantula must be wrongly input into to stats
The scorpion is what the tula will look like more or less.
And i thought everyone said xan/etd was so OP, yet having it being frozen is out of the picture?
Please make up your mind.
Well there's more than one of us here. So thats more than 'one' mind pal :P

http://beta.planetarion.com/statsanalysis.pl?race=5

Emp effs need looking at tho, considering the Avenger is 1240% effective against the shadow xD

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vlw4ptnh7um4c6l
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 14:23   #79
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=881b5cl7mm1i6rf

The Smuggler seems a bit strong atm. :P
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 15:22   #80
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Well story was that i only do stats when i drink, so i forgot to smooth ETD out before putting it in, as when the other races was finished, so was the whisky bottle.
But ive been to the shop and bought a new one, so ETD and the rest will be done soon
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:05   #81
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Well, lower cath emp eff, strengthen zik, weaken etd. That's for sure.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:07   #82
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Also, my one true nagging complaint in pa are people's insistence on swapping the name of the ships around. I'm gonna spend 2/3 of the round to learn that Dragon's suddenly target FR/De, that the Roach is a DE and that the Peg is now suddenly an etd ship ffs

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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:23   #83
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Well, lower cath emp eff, strengthen zik, weaken etd. That's for sure.
I wont touch the emp eff after all the xan whine ive heard, forget about it.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:26   #84
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Also, my one true nagging complaint in pa are people's insistence on swapping the name of the ships around. I'm gonna spend 2/3 of the round to learn that Dragon's suddenly target FR/De, that the Roach is a DE and that the Peg is now suddenly an etd ship ffs

Roach was originaly a corvette, so you could say im slowly bringing it back to its roots.
Pegasus is a DE, NOT a FI/CO/FR/CR
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:44   #85
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Also, my one true nagging complaint in pa are people's insistence on swapping the name of the ships around. I'm gonna spend 2/3 of the round to learn that Dragon's suddenly target FR/De, that the Roach is a DE and that the Peg is now suddenly an etd ship ffs

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Roach was originaly a corvette, so you could say im slowly bringing it back to its roots.
Pegasus is a DE, NOT a FI/CO/FR/CR
And in those original stats (round 6-8) the Dragon was a BS that targeted CR and BS The Wyvern did the FR/DE targeting.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:45   #86
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Dont make ghosts overpowered like liches were in this round. Luckily there was not much ETDs otherway BS would be useless.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:46   #87
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

So basically, you have made Cath CO similar to two rounds ago, where it is virtually impossible to stop.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 16:58   #88
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

:hugs:
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 17:08   #89
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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So basically, you have made Cath CO similar to two rounds ago, where it is virtually impossible to stop.
No so far xan/etd is "OP", DE eats up CO, Dagger eats up EMP, and ter is pretty emp resistance.
Maybe i should make CO stronger?
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 17:18   #90
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Maybe i should make CO stronger?
I would not make too many changes at once - it would surely be a recipe for unbalancing them again just in a different way.

Clouds probably means that cat co will be difficult for alliances to stop. True, but then cats need to be good at roiding since they tend to be targeted a lot too.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 17:24   #91
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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I would not make too many changes at once - it would surely be a recipe for unbalancing them again just in a different way.

Clouds probably means that cat co will be difficult for alliances to stop. True, but then cats need to be good at roiding since they tend to be targeted a lot too.
Im just being sarcastic.
CO is good, but not that good, its weak defensively, and you have a hard time faking it
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 17:56   #92
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
No so far xan/etd is "OP", DE eats up CO, Dagger eats up EMP, and ter is pretty emp resistance.
Maybe i should make CO stronger?
Firstly, the Dagger is "flak" and you don't have any proper kill ships to cover against CO that can make alliance eta. Secondly, you're forcing forts / pre-launch defending in order to cover against CO.

Also to comment on another area of the stats:

[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vlw4ptnh7um4c6l
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> Planetarion Battle Calc - [Defence] Value Loss (K:138 S:0) Salvage (+55.44) Lost Roids (0) Change (-82.56) - [Attack] Value Loss (K:0 S:0) XP (0/0) Change (+0)
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> lol
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> that ship is superb
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> fked up stats
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> 66k value emping 820k value

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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 17:59   #93
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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True, but then cats need to be good at roiding since they tend to be targeted a lot too.
You can't make Cath CO seriously OP just because their defence is weak..
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 18:10   #94
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vlw4ptnh7um4c6l
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> Planetarion Battle Calc - [Defence] Value Loss (K:138 S:0) Salvage (+55.44) Lost Roids (0) Change (-82.56) - [Attack] Value Loss (K:0 S:0) XP (0/0) Change (+0)
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> lol
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> that ship is superb
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> fked up stats
[Mon 10:55] <@ChronoX> 66k value emping 820k value
The amazing avenger has been mentioned already and bbutcher has said that Etd is not finished... even more so against the shadow which is also not finished.

On your comment about co I was simply suggesting that perhaps other things should be changed first rather than changing everything at once and coming back to square one. In other words it is best to fix the things that are completely out of kilter at the moment such as the two ships mentioned above first and then go on to things that might simply be a little unbalanced. Once we do get on to making smaller changes my preference would not be to tone down cat co but to increase the emp resistance of the interceptor since Ter is supposed to be the race that is best against Cat.

Given that most people seem to think that this stats set favours fr/de forts if this does happen then it wont be as easy for cat co as you are implying.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 18:32   #95
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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True, but then cats need to be good at roiding since they tend to be targeted a lot too.
We've kept saying this for the last few rounds, but somehow cath keeps being the most successful race. Most of the planets who are aiming for roundwin tend to go cath as a huge cath fleet is almost a prerequisite for covering an inc.
Myself, I wouldn't mind a round where cath didn't have an fi/co pod..
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 19:09   #96
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
We've kept saying this for the last few rounds, but somehow cath keeps being the most successful race. Most of the planets who are aiming for roundwin tend to go cath as a huge cath fleet is almost a prerequisite for covering an inc.
Myself, I wouldn't mind a round where cath didn't have an fi/co pod..

Good idea.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 20:29   #97
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
We've kept saying this for the last few rounds, but somehow cath keeps being the most successful race. Most of the planets who are aiming for roundwin tend to go cath as a huge cath fleet is almost a prerequisite for covering an inc.
Myself, I wouldn't mind a round where cath didn't have an fi/co pod..
The issue is, Cath are very strong offensively and very weak defensively by nature. If you get good alliance/gal def to cover their defensive weakness, you can use the attacking nature to generally do well. If you make Cath only as good at attacking as the other races, anyone with bad defence will suffer.

Code:
Winners since Round 50:

+------+----------+
| race | count(*) |
+------+----------+
| Cat  |        3 |
| Etd  |        1 |
| Xan  |        2 |
| Zik  |        2 |
+------+----------+

Top 10 since Round 50:
+------+----------+
| race | count(*) |
+------+----------+
| Cat  |       25 |
| Etd  |       11 |
| Ter  |       17 |
| Xan  |       11 |
| Zik  |       16 |
+------+----------+

Top 200 since Round 50:
+------+----------+
| race | count(*) |
+------+----------+
| Cat  |      409 |
| Etd  |      266 |
| Ter  |      264 |
| Xan  |      346 |
| Zik  |      315 |
+------+----------+

All planets:

+------+----------+
| race | count(*) |
+------+----------+
| Cat  |     1724 |
| Etd  |      851 |
| Ter  |     1575 |
| Xan  |     1573 |
| Zik  |     1411 |
+------+----------+

Suggests that Cath has been the more popular race but have generally performed slightly stronger than total planets.

someone else can do the precise maths, I'm pretty busy.

When I find a moment I am willing to set up Blue_Esper's stats as a counter example (if nothing else, then I'll have two sets of stats "on file" and we can use one in the future, maybe). Someone kick me tomorrow or something.

B-Butcher: before then, you really need to fix most of the A/Cs and D/Cs, they are all over the place. ETD De/Bs having A/Cs 50% higher than Terran is crazy. Also agree that some of the EMP efficiencies are a bit high - 180% is only generally seen when you only have a T1 for the ship (or if you're hitting a SK, when I'd expect 300%+), for T1/T2 you should be a closer to 150-165 for T1 and 100 for T2 - modifying up and down depending on the race.

Still not sure how I feel about one race having twice as many pod classes as 2 other races - also ETD can chain-steal using Zik Fr to get any ship in the game; usually there's a few people that accidentally manage to pick up all sorts of useful Zik Fr and then use it to steal a few key ships; hopefully someone has considered how Etd could use that to augment their fleets.
Do Etd really need 4 pod classes - especially when almost every other race already has Fr? You'll be stealing that Fr anyway.


The obvious judgement is that Blue_Esper's stats all have 3 races and fewer T2s, generally that makes them more offensive.

Blue_Esper's stats, whilst more offensive, at least have balanced pod classes (and presumably general numbers of ships per class)
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 20:31   #98
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

Why are people pasting calcs when it's obvious efficiencies haven't even been touched yet? There's a ship with 800 a/c 1028 d/c for Pete's sake!
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 20:34   #99
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Why are people pasting calcs when it's obvious efficiencies haven't even been touched yet? There's a ship with 800 a/c 1028 d/c for Pete's sake!
oh that makes sense now.
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Unread 21 Jul 2014, 21:52   #100
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Re: Round 58 BB stats discussion

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
We've kept saying this for the last few rounds, but somehow cath keeps being the most successful race. Most of the planets who are aiming for roundwin tend to go cath as a huge cath fleet is almost a prerequisite for covering an inc.
Myself, I wouldn't mind a round where cath didn't have an fi/co pod..
Yea or just 1 pod Class less, emp is all over the uni, in a unappealing Way.

Do something bb !!!! The playerbase base has spoken.

Atleast 10 of them
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