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Unread 18 Nov 2011, 06:48   #1
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How (and why) Planetarion fails

It's 11:27pm US Central Time on Thursday, November 17th. My galaxay and alliance have incoming reported, and not much response on IRC.

I can say, with a tremendous amount of confidence, that my phone will ring in 2-4 hours. Munin is evil, and still has my number. I avoid the call and "go back to sleep".

In May, I'll be 32. I've "played' off and on since before Christmas 2000 (r3). Mostly "off" as of lately--see above about phone calls at night. I am "playing" this round because it's free, and to play as an Ascendancy "support" planet. No escorts, not a scanner, but 3x defense fleets when it's not inconvenient. Also, it's "free", and let's see how it's changed.

Which brings me to this thread.

What in the **** is the point of a "game" that's effectively "played" when everyone is asleep?
Hell, I bet even Theamion doesn't play anymore, as a case and point (hi Theam).

This whole venture is completely failed if the core aspect of is doesn't change. I, along with many other much better players, have offered suggestions to fix these issues.

There's still shy of 1200 planets, so people are sticking around for something...the sleep deprivation surely can't be motivation enough, can it?

I've moved on to another game that at least has graphics. I can get myself ****ed over at any time, yet I can still sleep at night.


TL;DR: I find it hard to believe in 2011 that young people still find this interesting, or that "old" people like me still get out of bed for a spreadsheet-war.

Going back to my hole now, flame away.
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Unread 18 Nov 2011, 09:27   #2
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

You are 100% correct. This is indeed a problem (maybe even "the", and trust me, I don't say that lightly) and suggestions have indeed been made to either solve it or lessen its impact.

I think you can guess what was done with them.
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Unread 18 Nov 2011, 13:10   #3
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

i love the sleep deprivation
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Unread 20 Nov 2011, 10:49   #4
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

This game is played during waking hours in Australia
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Unread 20 Nov 2011, 15:53   #5
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Cochese whilst I agree that the game is fundementally flawed, and suggestions have been made to try and 'fix' this problem - people attack at night specifically because there's less chance of defense. Specifically because, with any luck your fleets will be flying at the same time as other people are sleeping blissfully unaware or uncaring. That just can't and wont be fixed.
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Unread 20 Nov 2011, 16:09   #6
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

A fairly easy step would be to get rid of prelaunch. Apparently some people still believe it helps new players though, although I haven't seen any new players for a while.
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Unread 20 Nov 2011, 16:11   #7
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

the only real way to solve the launch time problem is for there to be 10times as many players spread evenly across all timezones, meaning there are always plenty of people awake.

if someone could make this happen that would be awesome.
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Unread 20 Nov 2011, 16:17   #8
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Adding PA to the website of the guys who own the game would be a good start.
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Unread 20 Nov 2011, 17:48   #9
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Reduce prelaunch to maximum of three ticks imo.
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Unread 21 Nov 2011, 02:09   #10
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

I understand the idea of launching while people are asleep and thus, theoretically, less able to get defense. It's a PA staple, and makes perfect sense.

That's the entire point of the problem though.

If I'm "playing" a "game", I want to do something...not click a few buttons then wait all day for stuff to happen, and certainly not for the interesting bits to come in the middle of the night.

In the other game I play, I can go look for a fight at 4pm when I've got nothing to do, and either get one or not, the log off when I've either gotten fights or lost enough for one day. I can also do PvE stuff to make money--and while tedious and predictable--is still *actually playing a game*.

I'm tempted to ramble on about the "instant gratification" factor, and how that would change "score" and/or "XP" but it's been done before, leading to a snow-ball effect of issues.

I suppose it comes down to the "demographic" of PA players; why do we still do this xxx years later? What niche does it fill that the myriad of newer, better, games-with-graphics don't?
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Unread 21 Nov 2011, 04:55   #11
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

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Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
I suppose it comes down to the "demographic" of PA players; why do we still do this xxx years later? What niche does it fill that the myriad of newer, better, games-with-graphics don't?
PA is what tehy play when they arent skyrimming duh
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Unread 21 Nov 2011, 05:26   #12
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Considering there were 270000 people playing Skyrim simultaneously on the first day of release, no. No, they're not.
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Unread 21 Nov 2011, 07:10   #13
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

270k people trying to figure out wtf stupid quest the game is trying to get you to finish b4 a damn giant comes and rapes you with no lube
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Unread 21 Nov 2011, 08:13   #14
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

The only part of that sentence that mattered was "270k people".
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Unread 23 Nov 2011, 21:04   #15
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

I've said this in a few threads. Make some kind "mini-game" or something that you can do between ticks that gives you resources or (GP) and then you can trade GP in for resources/ships/asteroids/CP/RP etc... Give something to actually do between ticks so that it makes the game more than just clicking refresh every 2 min.
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Unread 26 Nov 2011, 10:21   #16
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

you click refresh every 2 mins?
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Unread 26 Nov 2011, 11:24   #17
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Worryingly i dont think anything will ever change with PA... The game itself has fundemental flaws which would take quite a significant overhaul to fix. These forums are never short of ideas and solutions, the likes of Ave and m0 to name a couple are regularly coming up with ways to fix problems but realistically most of them require some serious coding and reinvention of the core game. When added to the fact that PA has one paid coder in Cin who from what i have been told is already constantly busy rewriting basic game code to keep pa running this means that the forum suggestions are dismissed and being to much extra work load to implement.

As t3k/Kenny mentioned in an earlier post PA isnt even advertised on the website of its parent company, i would have thought with the declaration of a FREE ROUND that a link would have gone up onm Jagex's homepage as a way to give their huge playerbase a chance to try PA for free, but it seems not. I dont know if this was miscommunication between the PA Team and Jagex or for another reason but suffice to say the free round has really not done anything for PA. If it was a way to make people play an ST round (which quite a chunk dont normally do) then it seems to have failed and maybe even tho i advocated ST stats when they first come back with the lack of playerbase intrest in the game MT stats should be used every round. Its my opinion that ST stats naturally heighten activity as there as holes in all fleets and less defence of a certain type available and nowadays in PA we dont have activity like we did even 6-7 rounds ago.

In regards to why people still play this game i would say that it is the community that keeps them here not the game itself.

Using my personal experiences i will assess why i cant give 'the game' even though i really should.


I started play PA because i had split from my wife and was living alone, most of my friends were her friends and therefore i wasnt left with many people to talk to. I remembered playing PA and other game when i was younger and thought i should see if they were still going. I signed up to PA and joined iRC and applied to a few alliances and was eventually accepted into ASS. The community was great and very diverse, there was lots of people to talk to and i had a great time, i dont think the game was ever the major part of my 'PA career' it was always in favour of the community aspect. I threw myself into DCing and BCing and other roles within ASS and then eventually with a disgruntled core split away to create HeX.

Over the following 5 rounds we played PA to a reasonable level and built what i beleive was a great community. I became close friends with my fellow HC's, Jinkez Razock and sk8. When we started out with HeX Jinkez was a jobless bum, i was still putting all my attention into iRC and PA through my rl lonliness, Razock was a trainee teacher and sk8 was a uni student. Between the 4 of us we had a lot of spare time to grow the alliance and man management our group well.

But over time our lives and those of our community changed, we werent full of 18-20 year old anymore. I had met someone and was putting my time into that (and still am \o/), Razock was now a almost qualified teacher and sk8 was in his final year of uni. Jinkez will always be a jobless bum but he couldnt pick up the slack of 3 people whos activity had massively wained and therefore he gained an apathy towards PA from this. We decided at the start of round 41 that it would be our last round playing as an alliance as it was unfair on the players that relied on us for coordination and overall management. We decided it best for them to move into other alliances and spent most of our round arranging with others to take them in. (sorry Valle your alliances amazing victory will be tainted by the fact that all of us were already planning for rd 42 when you started warring us)

I along with Jinkez and sk8 had planned to quit pa completely, as we now had a lack of care for the game and time to play it, but in the off round the new stats were released and the thought that i wouldnt be able to interact with all these great people i had met on a regularly basis was rubbish. So i applied to a few alliances and found a home in ND. They welcomed me in and i did have a great 200 ticks there, i was playing with a few of my HeX friends and the lack of responsibility was cool!!

Things happened (yes i know im a prick most the time, i cant change that sorry) and i moved to xVx. Yet again another great community and an enjoyable place to hang out.

I am now currently not playing PA and really it sucks - all these people i knew for ages that im out of the loop with, i miss that! I have no doubts i will sign up again and may never be able to fully leave PA but it has never been for the game itself - it has always been for the people and i would hazzard a guess that it is the same for the majority of you guys to... otherwise why would Asc have a 20 man tag when they no longer have anything game wise to prove in PA??!!
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Unread 26 Nov 2011, 20:39   #18
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

just some nice new gfx would be nice tbh :/
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Unread 1 Dec 2011, 05:51   #19
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

:crymeariver: "Waaaaa, PA fails." If you want a successful Planetarion you need 2 simple things: a definition of that success, and the devotion of resources to that end. So devote your resources to the success of the game (however you may define it) or STFU!

Whiney-ass-bitches, the lot of ya!
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Unread 2 Dec 2011, 05:54   #20
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Thanks for the (mostly) constructive replies...haven't checked the thread in a while as "other game" has just released a pretty damn good expansion.

I guess the end-game boils down to "it is what it is".

Angry Birds on Chrome is a hell of a lot of fun btw.

'tulsa', I appreciate the comment but unless you've been lurking for a decade or are a fail-troll account, you don't know what you're talking about.

Going back under a rock now.
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Unread 3 Dec 2011, 08:03   #21
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

I don't believe you truly do appreciate my comment.

It's still a fun game to some, even in this feeble state (compared to the old days, pre-p2p and such). Maybe the reason 'Planetarion fails' in the eyes of so many is because somewhere along the way it attracted a negative, hateful, 'ruining' community. I just wish everyone would lighten up and enjoy the game for what it is - A GAME!!!

I've played on and off since late Rd2, and it's the ability to leave and come back and find subtle changes in community and gameplay styles that I've grown to enjoy. The only constant since my return a few years ago seems to be the never-ending bitching and whining of the 'core' players.

The way I see it, you can complain and be negative and tear the game down. Or, you can find ways to help change the game for the better, give some positive & friendly feedback on what you'd like to see changed, and GET YOUR GAME ON!

But what do I know? I'm just a troll who hasn't pwn3d enough to have an opinion.
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Unread 6 Dec 2011, 00:41   #22
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

for sure PA is fun, thats why we play it, and tbh - how hard is it to check yer phone - recall/launch def whatever, go back to sleep - in the timespan of a fart.

its not like you need to stay up 50 hours straight to play ( and do good) in this game.
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Unread 6 Dec 2011, 00:47   #23
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

hey cochese, not seen you since what round 5? in case you dont remember me, we where in the same alliance in r3

are there only 1200 player in the game now?

the great part of the game was when there where 25k or more playing at once, like in r3 to r4 and it changed in r5 with paying of galaxies or was that a bit later? i dont remember...

pity there is so few left in here
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Unread 7 Dec 2011, 00:12   #24
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

I still can't believe I spent a few years getting out of bed in the middle of night to send numbers to a number and receive numbers in return.

Why oh why are people still playing?
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Unread 7 Dec 2011, 05:34   #25
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

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I still can't believe I spent a few years getting out of bed in the middle of night to send numbers to a number and receive numbers in return.

Why oh why are people still playing?
oh ... is that all we are now??!?!?! numbers?!?!?!

CHICKEN NUGGETS
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Unread 9 Dec 2011, 00:50   #26
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

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the great part of the game was when there where 25k or more playing at once, like in r3 to r4 and it changed in r5 with paying of galaxies or was that a bit later? i dont remember...
Since everyone had 3-4 planets back then that was probably more like 6-8k players, but certainly many more than now and definitely more fun to play in that larger universe.
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Unread 9 Dec 2011, 00:58   #27
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

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I still can't believe I spent a few years getting out of bed in the middle of night to send numbers to a number and receive numbers in return.

Why oh why are people still playing?
A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers - Plato
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Unread 10 Dec 2011, 19:38   #28
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Well i had only 1 planet back in r3 to r5, s if all had that many then yes not that many players, but i doubt it was that bad, as i was in a few alliances even bigger ones, a few at times had a secondary planet, but that was rare and the alliance i ran in r3 had over 200 players alone and was considered small, ohh and pleace note, no one in our alliance was allowed to have more planets, we threw out people, if they where multies.
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Unread 11 Dec 2011, 15:54   #29
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

I don't think I've ever been in an alliance that didn't have a 'no cheating' policy, so it was not something spoken or shared in public #'s. But back then it seemed like everyone was doing it; I remember hearing that SynSid had dozens of bots! My first alliance was a cluster alliance that had Fury members. They were HUGE and it didn't take long to realize how they got that way...ours was a decision of 'If you can't beat them, join them.'

I haven't cheated since coming back to the game and finding there are multihunters. While it seems thier adjudication of the rules often comes into question, MH's were a good and necessary development. I've been playing another tick-based game and it seems to have a growing multi problem. I guess that's just a natural flaw with this type of game...there will always be cheaters.
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Unread 11 Dec 2011, 23:15   #30
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

i was in a few alliances, they and most of our allies normally kicked out multies, whenever found... never saw many who had that many, even with bots.
but the point was more, there was more people back then, that made the game worth playing and its a pity it became so puny, but i guess that it happened in r5 with more payment of personal systems.
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Unread 12 Dec 2011, 08:11   #31
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

This thread is not about cheating. It never was more than a minor annoyance, so if you could stop derailing the thread, that'd be nice.
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Unread 3 Jan 2012, 13:21   #32
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

This game fails, because people have lives, and the game interferes with that. And it's so oldschool.. People don't even recognise it as being a game.
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Unread 6 Jan 2012, 23:29   #33
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Prelaunch for attacking fleets has been cut to 2 ticks.

There is your reason for another large percentage to stop playing^
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 00:13   #34
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Alternatively - there is a reason for attacks to be launched at more "reasonable" times.
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 00:51   #35
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Terrible terrible change
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 01:07   #36
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

beyond belief
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 02:41   #37
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

And with the PL change it is time for me to say goodbye for at least this round.

Influence signing out. o/
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 09:30   #38
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

i do not understand the decision here. removing prelaunch will not magically change attack times as some people think. it will just mean the "hardcore" players have an even easier time, whilst the casuals end up failing on attack even more.

i would be fine with this except for that fact that it will just mean even less players.
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 11:17   #39
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

The idea is that noobs get raped because everyone and their dog can launch at 3am, but no one is around to defend at those times, because of prelaunch. Removing prelaunch (which is what I'm in favour of) or severely limiting it changes the balance between attacking and defending, because people must be around to defend when they attack.

The only thing I dislike about this change is that no thought seems to have been put into countering some of the side-effects. I'm worried it will make the game much more static on the alliance level, because there will be many more defense fleets.

I'm completely unafraid that this will somehow lead to a collapse of the player base, though. No single change in this history of PA has ever caused that to happen, regardless of the mass forum drama that has often accompanied changes. At least as long as AD 2460 is still in development, there is simply nowhere else to go.

It's ironic, actually, how people always complain that PA Team don't do anything, but whenever they make a change, it's decried as "terrible".

Ah well. Same old.


P.S. Maybe this little prelaunch tangent could be split off Cochese's thread, as it doesn't really have anything to do with it.
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 14:33   #40
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The only thing I dislike about this change is that no thought seems to have been put into countering some of the side-effects. I'm worried it will make the game much more static on the alliance level, because there will be many more defense fleets.
I just think day raids (which is what this will bring) will be crap because there will be a much higher defence rate against them, meaning roids dont move around so much and those who got them first in bigger alliances will hold onto them better than they do already.

Its gonna make deffing gal raids a bitch with no checking of j scans before bed and so on - gonna catch a lot of mid range galaxies (10-25 ranked) out and make life a pain for them i can see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
It's ironic, actually, how people always complain that PA Team don't do anything, but whenever they make a change, it's decried as "terrible".
I think a lot of that tho is the PA Team lack of transparency with changes. When was the last time we had a Creators Hour? or that a member of the PA Team commented on the suggestions section of the forum? There is no feedback from them or the outlining of ideas to gauge opinion. Thats why people react as they do, because changes are seemingly thrust upon us suddenly without any forewarning.

The PA Team would do better to for example have announced ingame via Mail or announcement that they were considering the idea for rd 46, set up a thread on here outlining the idea, maybe had one member of the PA Team as a irc liason who could explain and listen to people issues with it, maybe using the #alliances reps as a go between for that to remove some of the pointless whinging and just bring real thought out issues with the change.

They would then have a wider idea of what the playerbase wanted and could of decided wether to make the proposed change or not, rather than the current 'just do it' attitude
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Unread 7 Jan 2012, 20:59   #41
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

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The PA Team would do better to for example have announced ingame via Mail or announcement that they were considering the idea for rd 46, set up a thread on here outlining the idea, maybe had one member of the PA Team as a irc liason who could explain and listen to people issues with it, maybe using the #alliances reps as a go between for that to remove some of the pointless whinging and just bring real thought out issues with the change.

They would then have a wider idea of what the playerbase wanted and could of decided wether to make the proposed change or not, rather than the current 'just do it' attitude

The playerbase giving userfull feedback? That always ended in a flame party. And in spite of what the community feels, PA Team members are NOT complete idiots and actually CAN think of all pros and cons on their own. Also, the forums are already crammed with the communities' ideas and wishes. So why waste useless energy on forums threads and irc liaisons, and tbh, #alliances. And relying on active forum users and irc suggests that forum and irc users are representative of the community as a whole, which is not true. Yes active forum/irc players make the core, but many many more are not active that way, and they form the real numbers.


As for the actual PL time change: I do not think it will matter much, it will make the game just as bad, just in a different way :-)
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Unread 9 Jan 2012, 14:59   #42
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

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And in spite of what the community feels, PA Team members are NOT complete idiots and actually CAN think of all pros and cons on their own.
As evidenced in the huge and continuous success and ever growing playerbase of planetarion

Sorry, i know, it was a cheap troll but could not help myself.
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Unread 9 Jan 2012, 15:03   #43
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Now to business: pl +2 could be beneficial.
Pro: Most sane people will launch in the morning.
Con: The insane ones will band together in 1 elite alliance and cruise to victory, 1up style.
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Unread 10 Jan 2012, 02:44   #44
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

I was under the impression that Cin and the rest of the PA Team were part time, and had full time jobs elsewhere. So coding anything was going to be uber slow or non existent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz
It's ironic, actually, how people always complain that PA Team don't do anything, but whenever they make a change, it's decried as "terrible".
99% of changes done are basically modiflying a few numbers, no real features have been added for a while. Nothing been done to fix any of the player base problems.

They half arsed the skins (UI needs another overhaul). Covert ops and population need redoing (I admit that those two are from PAX days).

Looks get people interested, and the content keeps them entertained.
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Unread 10 Jan 2012, 17:46   #45
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Planetarion was innovative back in 2000, thousands of players all playing the same game, people being able to play at any time during the day thanks to all the new players.

These days the ruleset of Planetarion just feels so dated and unfriendly. New players have to follow pointless instructions on how to start their account, and then wait hours before they can do anything useful. Combat depends on scans which forces you to beg other players or painfully research yourself. The game depends on third party search tools to find the best targets.

Everything lasts just 7 weeks and gets wiped, nothing is persistent. So instead of the Planetarion universe growing with each month, a number of players decide that they won't be playing the next round and the playerbase declines. Maybe if Planetarion had been designed from the start as a persistent game then it could've avoided this problem.

I'm sure some people still enjoy it, but these days I prefer my sleep.
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Unread 15 Jan 2012, 05:35   #46
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Can't really comment on the change(s). I don't really see it helping or hurting either situation more than another.

That being said--and to reiterate what Phil said--MonkeyGems is pretty cool. So is Angry Birds (on Chrome, no less(!!) which is far more interesting than PA seems to be. I've been playing Goldeneye on an n64 emulator (I own the original, honest) when that other game gets dull.

I'm not sure a "persistent" approach would change anything unless the stats were 'right'. If I'm way ahead in roids and my galaxy/alliance kicks ass, I'll just "build more Sentinels" and win. For everyone else, the roids would dry up and/or you'd be hitting at your bash limit for minimal cap while obliterating the planet's fleet...which means, you'd still never catch up. If/when you did, ala r3, you'd get a death squad attack that kills your planet and has waves of pods following to roid you dry. Or, end up in c200 which is a proven method of doing well in the end.

Easy roids are always easy, and farming (or gal raiding) is easier than setting up proper waves on fat planets or fleetcatching them with anything other than I HAVE ELEVENTY BILLION SHIPS lol-waves that don't fleetcatch OR get roids.

It's a double edged knife, and PA is cutting itself with both sides of it.

Now, where to aim that shotgun bird at...
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Unread 27 Jan 2012, 22:38   #47
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

Attacking at day makes no sense at all. I dont want to launch during the day, its pointless to launch into 10 instant def fleets. Why even bother? Cant we all just sitt around and initiate roids and see who has the most initiated roids after 7-8 weeks time? Making Constructions the key to success. All the misrable players in PA sit and actually do Cov-Ops which is another useless feature of the game.
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Unread 14 Feb 2012, 02:44   #48
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

basically everyone needs to quit whining, and then quit PA.
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Unread 17 Feb 2012, 23:38   #49
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

This game will never change. I've not played really since 1up disbanded back in whatever round it was (I can't even remember).

The days of political intrigue and such are to me, lost without the figureheads and juggernaughts of old. It was my passion for Fury that kept me playing, my loyalty to Sid that brought me back for another series of rounds with 1up.

The game itself has never been fun to really play. It's complexity in ship states increased to the need for battle calculators and the late night launches became more and more prevalent.

Wars were won before fleets were even launched.


The game needs a radical overhaul. It became unprofitable for alliances to even wish to go for war - the possible gains far overshadowed by the potential losses. Attrition was never truely possible, and it became a game of who was simply more active rather than any real strategy and skill.

Planetarion has never really embraced what it wanted to be. It wanted to curb alliances, and yet it was the alliances that kept the game life breathing. It should have long ago brought alliances into a major factor of the game - with geography and such, but far more experienced people than me have given indepth threads of suggestions and such before.

I remember reading and agreeing with alot of an old suggestion by jester I believe which echoed alot of what Sid and a majority of High Command officials commented on in aeons past.

It's a real shame, I remember my time with Planetarion still and occassionally do miss the community that had built up.

But all empires are reduced to dust in time.
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Unread 19 Feb 2012, 13:08   #50
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Re: How (and why) Planetarion fails

And like all empires, the decline is slow, tormented and painful.
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