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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 15:36   #1
roadrunner_0
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funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=7591

the 10 most damaging books ever, as composed by random conservative nutters


its quite a funny list really
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 15:47   #2
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

This woman is a Class A loony
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 15:57   #3
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Article
The Communist Manifesto
Authors: Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels

[....]
The Evil Empire of the Soviet Union put the Manifesto into practice.
and I'm moving there next month

seriously though, I thought we were supposed to be beyond this good'n'evil thing by now
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 16:10   #4
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

As an answer, some left-wing group made their list, with conservative books on the list.

However, I've lost the url to it...
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 16:10   #5
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

i liked the keynes bit.

"FDR adopted the idea as U.S. policy, and the U.S. government now has a $2.6-trillion annual budget and an $8-trillion dollar debt."
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 17:02   #6
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

"Marx theorized that the inevitable eventual outcome would be global proletarian revolution. He could not have predicted 21st Century America: a free, affluent society based on capitalism and representative government that people the world over envy and seek to emulate."

GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 17:18   #7
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Honorable Mention


The Origin of Species
by Charles Darwin
Score: 17





heh
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 17:42   #8
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukePaul
As an answer, some left-wing group made their list, with conservative books on the list.

However, I've lost the url to it...
Try to find it, I honestly couldn't think of ten "damaging" books at all. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.

BTW: What was so damaging with this book?

Quote:
7. The Feminine Mystique

Author: Betty Friedan
Publication date: 1963
Score: 30
Summary: In The Feminine Mystique, Betty Friedan, born in 1921, disparaged traditional stay-at-home motherhood as life in “a comfortable concentration camp”--a role that degraded women and denied them true fulfillment in life. She later became founding president of the National Organization for Women. Her original vocation, tellingly, was not stay-at-home motherhood but left-wing journalism. As David Horowitz wrote in a review for Salon.com of Betty Friedan and the Making of the Feminine Mystique by Daniel Horowitz (no relation to David): The author documents that “Friedan was from her college days, and until her mid-30s, a Stalinist Marxist, the political intimate of the leaders of America’s Cold War fifth column and for a time even the lover of a young Communist physicist working on atomic bomb projects in Berkeley’s radiation lab with J. Robert Oppenheimer.”
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 18:01   #9
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

It inspires women to leave the house and get jobs rather than waiting on men hand and foot. Why in god's name would anyone want that to happen?
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 18:27   #10
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

I couldn't think of a list better than the one in the opening post.

Although "The Feminine Mystique" seems fairly harmless, at least how I understand it.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 20:00   #11
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
As I said elsewhere, I like these lyrics :
You're wrong when you imprison people turning tricks
And you're wrong about trickle down economics
If you think that punk rock doesn't mix with politics, you're wrong

You're wrong for hating queers and eating steers
If you kill for the thrill of the hunt
You're wrong 'bout wearing fur and not hating Ann Coulter
Cause she's a ****ed ****
---

On the original topic, I don't think I'd ever list a group of "harmful" books. I don't think a book can be "harmful" in a meaningful sense. You can argue Mein Kampf led to a lot of things, but ultimately it's a lot more complicated than that, and it's not like the book itself went round invading Czechslovakia by itself.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 20:07   #12
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

These people should be comics...
oh wait, they already are
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 20:13   #13
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

I onlty agreed with about 6 or 7 of their picks. However, I would like to nominate Dante's last post for the list.

Ann does rant a bit but then that just means she would fit in well on GD. Maybe wo could invite her?
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 20:17   #14
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Well when you count the Nazis deliberately misinterpreting Nietzsche to philosophically justify their regime, then you could maybe argue it was harmful.

Unfortunately, the people who made that list don't seem to have read Beyond Good & Evil either and have just borrowed the Nazi interpretation.

I rather like radically conservative people though, they're awfully consistent and always ready to amuse.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 21:12   #15
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Ann does rant a bit but then that just means she would fit in well on GD. Maybe wo could invite her?
She's been around for some time, check out the nick "Texan"
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 22:52   #16
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog
Well when you count the Nazis deliberately misinterpreting Nietzsche to philosophically justify their regime, then you could maybe argue it was harmful.

So it was Nietzsche who was responsible for the murder of all those millions of people? Guess the Nuremberg trials were just a waste of time.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 23:19   #17
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Exclamation Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

On Liberty
by John Stuart Mill
Score: 18

This shows how dangerous these sorts of people are.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 23:32   #18
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Exclamation Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
So it was Nietzsche who was responsible for the murder of all those millions of people? Guess the Nuremberg trials were just a waste of time.
I think you kinda missed the point.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 23:36   #19
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Exclamation Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

I'd put The Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion on the list, just for the sheer number of times it gets pulled out of the garbage bin.

Mein Kampf is currently a best seller in Turkey. (I wonder if the title is translated as 'My Jihad'?)
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 23:38   #20
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I think you kinda missed the point.
If you can justify putting one book on a 'dangerous' list because of a deliberate misinterpretation then you can literally put any book you want on this list and the value of the list (if it has any) becomes zero.
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Unread 16 Jul 2005, 23:42   #21
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Exclamation Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
If you can justify putting one book on a 'dangerous' list because of a deliberate misinterpretation then you can literally put any book you want on this list and the value of the list (if it has any) becomes zero.
I think that was more or less what Black Dog was saying, if not in so many words.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:06   #22
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

'Dangerous' is a pretty vague term, but assuming we can loosely define it as 'having effects I view as negative', I'd probably agree with most of the things on that list. Kinsey shouldnt be there and I'd imagine the only reason for his inclusion is religion. I've no idea what Betty Friedan is doing on it either. I dunno about Comte because I'm not entirely sure how influential he really was and whether positivism would have happened without him, but hes probably a candidate. Nietzsche sadly belongs there due to Nazi misinterpretations, but BGE doesnt seem like the best choice - Will to Power is probably a more suitable pick. The Marx/Keynes/Dewey angle is spot on though.

Some of Herbert Spencer's writings probably deserve a mention, possibly accompanied by something from Hegel for almost single handedly messing up European thought for a couple of hundred years.

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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:25   #23
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
vague if conditional agreement with the crazies
Darwin, twice, and Mill. Do you agree with those choices?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:28   #24
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Darwin wasnt on the top 10 list, which is what I was commenting on. Obviously I wouldnt agree with Darwin. I can see why Mill would be a candidate though, but I think there are probably better choices.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:40   #25
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

I don't know about the whole top 10 but i've got candidates for the top 6 spots:

Number 1

Number 2

Number 3

Number 4

Number 5

Number 6
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:41   #26
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Darwin wasnt on the top 10 list, which is what I was commenting on. Obviously I wouldnt agree with Darwin. I can see why Mill would be a candidate though, but I think there are probably better choices.
Why not Darwin, exactly? Eugenics was an identifiably bad thing.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:48   #27
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

When in the **** did Darwin go on about eugenics in "The Origin of the Species"?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:53   #28
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
When in the **** did Darwin go on about eugenics in "The Origin of the Species"?
Where did Nietzsche go on about Naziism?
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 00:55   #29
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
'Dangerous' is a pretty vague term, but assuming we can loosely define it as 'having effects I view as negative', I'd probably agree with most of the things on that list.
I don't think any written word is dangerous. I believe it is up to individuals to make up their own minds based on all ideas and knowledge available. The premise for creating this list is incredibly short sighted.

An irony I'd like to point out is that while several selection in that list were chosen for their association to NAZI's, and it was NAZI's who burned books.

Also the science of Marx is more than just his revolutionary rhetoric, he has contributed immensly to the ideas of New Archaeology. It is Marxist to assume that ideology and culture are related to our material surroundings. Archaeologists use items found in the dirt to make assumptions about ways of life and ideology, culture, and etc. It's not so black and white.

People have been killing each other for a long time, long before people wrote.

Some might think that I'd create a list of dangerous books that included the Bible and the Koran, but I don't think those books are dangerous, I think the idiots that belive them are.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 01:32   #30
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I don't think any written word is dangerous.
Then why should anyone bother writing?


You can argue over definitions or you can argue over ideas. If you're going to argue over definitions, make it interesting. Look at what Nodrog actually wrote - "having effects I view as negative". What don't you like about the definition?

If you truely believe "words aren't 'dangerous'", why get defensive? Pretend you're a cyberarcheologist from 2500 digging up neocon websites from the "twen cen" era. A one-sided thesis saying "Were Ancient Americans silly and wrong?" would be a major intellectual faux pas; much better would be "What Concerns Underlie Ancient American Bias In Popular Literary Judgements", or something.

As an aside: it's rather rich for you to claim that words aren't pernicious, coming from a country without Heat Magazine.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 01:47   #31
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
If you truely believe "words aren't 'dangerous'", why get defensive? Pretend you're a cyberarcheologist from 2500 digging up neocon websites from the "twen cen" era.
i just love this image.

i see nodrog with a beard covered in dust being put in a museum
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 01:54   #32
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i just love this image.

i see nodrog with a beard covered in dust being put in a museum
i'll get the crates.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 02:00   #33
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
If you truely believe "words aren't 'dangerous'", why get defensive?
What does ^^^^ that question have in common with the following:

If firetrucks have flashing lights, why do dishwashers hop like rabbits?
If pickles are green, why do fish drive big cars?
If grass grows, why do skyscrapers have five hands?

Answer: Each can be devided into two parts, the latter of which is false and does not follow the first part of the question.

I cannot answer a question that defies comprehension and seeks to put words into my mouth
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 02:06   #34
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
'Dangerous' is a pretty vague term, but assuming we can loosely define it as 'having effects I view as negative', I'd probably agree with most of the things on that list. Kinsey shouldnt be there and I'd imagine the only reason for his inclusion is religion. I've no idea what Betty Friedan is doing on it either. I dunno about Comte because I'm not entirely sure how influential he really was and whether positivism would have happened without him, but hes probably a candidate. Nietzsche sadly belongs there due to Nazi misinterpretations, but BGE doesnt seem like the best choice - Will to Power is probably a more suitable pick. The Marx/Keynes/Dewey angle is spot on though.

Some of Herbert Spencer's writings probably deserve a mention, possibly accompanied by something from Hegel for almost single handedly messing up European thought for a couple of hundred years.
Hi, Im Nodrog, and I want to go back to the middle agees where some dude told us what books we could read.

If it was for people like you, we would still belive the sun was orbiting earth, not the other way around.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 02:06   #35
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

you'd probably be better off if you let queball put words in your mouth

you'd certainly be better off if you let him type for you.

(note: do not let mm offer to put anything in your mouth)
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 02:09   #36
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
you'd probably be better off if you let queball put words in your mouth

you'd certainly be better off if you let him type for you.

(note: do not let mm offer to put anything in your mouth)
Okay I will pm him my username and login info.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 04:52   #37
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Why not Darwin, exactly? Eugenics was an identifiably bad thing.
Darwinism != Social Darwinism. I said in my first post that Herbert Spencer probably deserved mentioning; afaik he was the main influence for the early attempts at applying Darwinism to politics, although he was apparently fairly libertarian so I dunno if he was misinterpreted. I've never read anything by him so I cant really say, although when it comes to assessing the infleunce of a text, reading it probably isnt all that important since its more about how people interpreted it rather than what it actually said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Hi, Im Nodrog, and I want to go back to the middle agees where some dude told us what books we could read.

If it was for people like you, we would still belive the sun was orbiting earth, not the other way around.
You're an idiot.

Last edited by Nodrog; 17 Jul 2005 at 05:25.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 05:01   #38
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I don't think any written word is dangerous. I believe it is up to individuals to make up their own minds based on all ideas and knowledge available
Ideas play a significant role in shaping society and culture. To take a random example, it's highly unlikely that Nazism would have occurred in Germany if it had not been for the previous 200 years of German intellectual culture (necessary conditions != sufficient conditions), and the soviet mess certainly wouldnt have occurred if Marx hadnt written any books. Words can have a lot of influence.

Do you think that any books or research papers can have positive effects? If so, then why is it so hard to believe they can have negative effects too?


Quote:
An irony I'd like to point out is that while several selection in that list were chosen for their association to NAZI's, and it was NAZI's who burned books.
I dont think thats ironic; noone has suggested the books should be banned or burnt.

Quote:
Also the science of Marx is more than just his revolutionary rhetoric, he has contributed immensly to the ideas of New Archaeology
I dont think this is relevant. Newton made many contributions to alchemy, but hes only really remembered for his maths and physics since theyre the aspects of his work that changed the world. Similarly Marx's main effect was his function as a springboard for communism, with his sociological work quite some way behind.

Last edited by Nodrog; 17 Jul 2005 at 05:15.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 05:44   #39
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
why do fish drive big cars?
This is a good question. Every flounder I see on the road is driving a Cadillac.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 05:51   #40
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
This is a good question. Every flounder I see on the road is driving a Cadillac.
oh lester

oh oh

lester

all your lot drive gas guzzlers
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 06:37   #41
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

I drive a VW beetle. Before that I had a Sterling by Rover. F***ing British heap! The engine was Japanese and was never a problem. The rest was British and was a pain in the ass (arse to my British friends).
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 12:54   #42
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

its your own fault for buying a rover, we don't
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 13:18   #43
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

So Nodrog.

Lets not read Darwinism, hey lets stop reseaching biology, unless from a biblical standpoint ofcouse.
Lets not read Marx, in fear of learning economics (like his added-value theory) or his historical materialism and dialectism, who has contributed massivly to the social sciences.
Lets make fun of Nader, becouse we dont want safe cars.
Lets not read Keynes, becouse economics isnt for lay-people right?
Lets not read Comte and Mill, couse phiolosophy is bad (let the priests think for us).

The only good thing about this conservative/evangelist offensive, is that it might totally ruin the US system of education, pushing ideas such as "inteligent design" instead of darwinism.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 13:44   #44
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
its your own fault for buying a rover, we don't
correct, hence they have gone bust
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 13:52   #45
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
So Nodrog.

Lets not read Darwinism, hey lets stop reseaching biology, unless from a biblical standpoint ofcouse.
.
What are you talking about? Look here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Darwin wasnt on the top 10 list, which is what I was commenting on. Obviously I wouldnt agree with Darwin. .
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 14:26   #46
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

The point was regarding books/knowlegde in general.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 14:52   #47
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Well yeah, but if you are going to accuse him of not wanting to seek knowledge, you probably shouldn't list one of the books he thinks shouldn't be on the list as a reason why.
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:19   #48
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

What Darwin did to biology, Marx (and Engels/Hegel one could add) did to economics and social sciences.

At best, its inconsistant to label one as "good" and the other one as "harmful".
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:20   #49
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

why
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Unread 17 Jul 2005, 15:56   #50
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Re: funny in a 'these people should never be listened to' kind of way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin
why
because (even though I agree with his assessment), Zhukov doesn't grasp that others might have a different opinion.
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