Thanks from FAnG to.....

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Fact is, FAnG/Mistu seem quite 'close' and there is a rumour mill. FAnG have been looking at ways to find a loophole in Sid's proposal whilst Mistu has been quiet on the issue entirely.

LMFAO

Zhil - i have hated blocks long before you thought it was cool to take a stand. Back in round 9 i was advocating blocks be thrown away and no one listened.

Yes I am probing - but not for political intent as I have resigned as a FAnG HC - but because I know after round 8 all avenues have to be covered and the document has to be fairly watertight otherwise the agrement will go down faster than the marie celeste.

We are the only alliance to outright say we are willing to work within the boundaries of a partnership - so why the hell would we want to break the agreement?

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Sorry, my comment came out much more harshly than intended. I should really say that it seemed Rumad/Heartless were searching for loopholes within the proposal. If this is wrong and FAnG have been working with Sid on a more detailed proposal than I apologise (Sid has understandably been busy).

WP also for the record announced they will go solo next round.

Your fullof shite zhil

Read my posts again - if i was searching for loophoes and cajuling for a formal document its because I WANT ROUND 11 TO BE SOLO.

I have resigned - I have no political motives from doing what I did except to ensure that The document is in place, agreed and supported by the community. Its you that come to the boards with the proposal, but it takes more than meer words to get a general consensus on something,

If its not right the "proposal" will be no better than round 8.

Get a clue.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

So basically if you think for a second that someone might block up to kill you then you make your own block?

I can see the excuses already.

Your talking rubbish maz - I Stated in my post ags ago we have every intent to go solo, but I don't see all the other hc's saying that. I dont see any details of this proposal for most hc's to make a definitive decision.

Stop scare mongering and go do something useful like design a framework for your proposal to back up your big words of a block free round.

Yua nd zhil need to take what a ex hc says out of context do you? i really feel sorry fr you both.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Your talking rubbish maz - I Stated in my post ags ago we have every intent to go solo, but I don't see all the other hc's saying that. I dont see any details of this proposal for most hc's to make a definitive decision.

Stop scare mongering and go do something useful like design a framework for your proposal to back up your big words of a block free round.

Yua nd zhil need to take what a ex hc says out of context do you? i really feel sorry fr you both.

My point was in reference to what Kjeldoran said. If I hear that "my opinion is nothing to do with FAnG" shit again I'm gonna scream. If you don't speak on behalf of FAnG then how about staying out of it, otherwise you are, by your own standards set out in this thread, doing nothing other than trying to incite replies of a negative nature. If you really have no bearing on FAnG nor the game in general how about you leave it to the people who do instead of muddying the waters even more than they already are?

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

My point was in reference to what Kjeldoran said. If I hear that "my opinion is nothing to do with FAnG" shit again I'm gonna scream. If you don't speak on behalf of FAnG then how about staying out of it, otherwise you are, by your own standards set out in this thread, doing nothing other than trying to incite replies of a negative nature. If you really have no bearing on FAnG nor the game in general how about you leave it to the people who do instead of muddying the waters even more than they already are?

Whats the problem with stating an intent to go solo?

Whats wrong with wanting to ensure an agreement works?

If I speak for myself or for FAnG I dont see a problem with what I said.

Yes I brought up scenario's were things might have been questioned. I have been anti blocks for years. In fact I resigned round 9 becuase of the Adelante/ToT/FAnG block. So zhilz incinuation that I was looking for loopholes is not only stupid, but also lacking commonsense.

You and zhil are accusing FAnG and myself of rubbish which is completely unfounded. How about you stop posting twaddle until such time you have solid evidence to back up your claims?

As for me - I wil still be playing (maybe even as FAnG if its 100 members, but I wil see what space is available for members cause i might just idle). But apart from that I WANT THE PROPOSAL TO BE SUCCESSFUL. As such I will try and assist with the development of plans for a solo round. However if your saying that only current HC's have a say your more foolish than I thought. Players and HC's have to support the proposal for it to work. If you cannot see that and the need to share, disseminate and communicate you have a proper complex.

Get over yourself maz - i like you but stay away from the drugs - they are doing you no good.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Rumad

You and zhil are accusing FAnG and myself of rubbish which is completely unfounded. How about you stop posting twaddle until such time you have solid evidence to back up your claims?

I haven't accused anyone of anything. If you'd taken time out of your day to read what Kjeldoran said, and I'll paraphrase it to make it real easy for you:

"If we think someone else is going to block then we will block and I think this will be the case"

If you don't think that warrants a suspicious response then I'm afraid you've got your head firmly up your arse.

Originally Posted by rumad

As for me - I wil still be playing (maybe even as FAnG if its 100 members, but I wil see what space is available for members cause i might just idle).

Now a complete reversal on what you said to me yesterday in pm. Is it that you lied to me or are you making things fit to allow your mind numbingly stupid posts sound credible?

Originally Posted by rumad

But apart from that I WANT THE PROPOSAL TO BE SUCCESSFUL. As such I will try and assist with the development of plans for a solo round. However if your saying that only current HC's have a say your more foolish than I thought. Players and HC's have to support the proposal for it to work. If you cannot see that and the need to share, disseminate and communicate you have a proper complex.

If you really want it to work that badly how about you get off your arse and write something yourself instead of coming on here moaning about "the mechanics". I personally think you're shouting about it so much just so you can claim "We didn't get an airtight enough guarentee" when you finally create a block. Like Zhil said, "loopholes"

Originally Posted by rumad

Get over yourself maz - i like you but stay away from the drugs - they are doing you no good.

You like four years old or what? The most inane comment I think I have ever had the misfortune to see on these boards.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

1) I haven't accused anyone of anything. If you'd taken time out of your day to read what Kjeldoran said, and I'll paraphrase it to make it real easy for you:

"If we think someone else is going to block then we will block and I think this will be the case"

If you don't think that warrants a suspicious response then I'm afraid you've got your head firmly up your arse.

2) Now a complete reversal on what you said to me yesterday in pm. Is it that you lied to me or are you making things fit to allow your mind numbingly stupid posts sound credible?

3) If you really want it to work that badly how about you get off your arse and write something yourself instead of coming on here moaning about "the mechanics". I personally think you're shouting about it so much just so you can claim "We didn't get an airtight enough guarentee" when you finally create a block. Like Zhil said, "loopholes"

4) You like four years old or what? The most inane comment I think I have ever had the misfortune to see on these boards.

1) Firstly KJ isn't a purist in the english language sense - he comes from belgium an speas very good english for someone that does not use it as his first language. He stated that he thought that there would be blocks against FAnG even though we had stated we would go solo. Take what he says at face value - he had no secondary intntion with what he wrote.

2) I am leaving to spend more time with my gf - if i do or don't play (If is blockless i am REALLY temped to play) As a paying customer I have as much right to say what I want. As for what I said in PM I do want to be there for my gf but speaking as someone who has "tried" to leave the community 3 times I am still swaying from leaving completely through to idling or playing actively. As part of wanting to be there for her though even though I wil have my 24/7 connection back next week I don't want to dedicate as much time to pa regardless of what I decide.

No need t use such strong wording as lies - i am a pretty straight guy and will give a straight answer.

3) So let me hear this right. 1 up come witha proposal of how great a blockless pa would be and how you want everyone to work within your framework, but you want me to develope your framework for the blockless round? The real world don't work like that mate. Your suggestion, your baby.,, If you really want it to work do something - if not stfu and stop misleading people. I myself probably would have tried to design something but I have a stressful job and a gf who I love and want to look after as best as i can who is going to have my baby in december.

I sincerely haven't got the time - however if you bring something like you have to the boards you need to follow that up - unless of course your saying its utter bollocks and had no substance to what was said.

4) If you expect better replies start with better content in your own replies rather than misjudging and feeding disinformation into every post you write. It was also said tongue in cheek as I know you better than some posters but if you really think that was a 100% pan faced comment I guess thats you perrogative.

Anyway off to do some work befre my FD yells at me

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Zhil - i have hated blocks long before you thought it was cool to take a stand. Back in round 9 i was advocating blocks be thrown away and no one listened.

Thats why you stagnated this round to death, because you hate blocking soo much, sounds logical.

Yes I am probing - but not for political intent as I have resigned as a FAnG HC - but because I know after round 8 all avenues have to be covered and the document has to be fairly watertight otherwise the agrement will go down faster than the marie celeste.

If you dont play why look for a loophole as it clearly wouldnt matter for you personally, unless you want to give a certain alliance you were part of an advantage if finding it. Sounds like Zhil got you with the hands in the cookies to me.

We are the only alliance to outright say we are willing to work within the boundaries of a partnership - so why the hell would we want to break the agreement?

Not like you have many options after last round, if you call for a blocking round the universe will unite and stomp over you in a stampead and feed you your own medication from last round. I doubt anyone would feel pity for you. So the last straw for you is this agreement because as much as it might prevent you from blocking it would prevent the rest of the universe to give you a nice and long bumrampaging.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Rumad

1) Firstly KJ isn't a purist in the english language sense - he comes from belgium an speas very good english for someone that does not use it as his first language. He stated that he thought that there would be blocks against FAnG even though we had stated we would go solo. Take what he says at face value - he had no secondary intntion with what he wrote.

Stop treating people like they are idiots. His english is excellent and he knew exactly what he was writing.

Originally Posted by rumad

2) I am leaving to spend more time with my gf - if i do or don't play (If is blockless i am REALLY temped to play) As a paying customer I have as much right to say what I want. As for what I said in PM I do want to be there for my gf but speaking as someone who has "tried" to leave the community 3 times I am still swaying from leaving completely through to idling or playing actively. As part of wanting to be there for her though even though I wil have my 24/7 connection back next week I don't want to dedicate as much time to pa regardless of what I decide.

No need t use such strong wording as lies - i am a pretty straight guy and will give a straight answer.

If you're a straight guy why tell me you are leaving for good and definately not playing? You didn't mention a thing about coming back. Or playing if......etc.

Originally Posted by rumad

3) So let me hear this right. 1 up come witha proposal of how great a blockless pa would be and how you want everyone to work within your framework, but you want me to develope your framework for the blockless round? The real world don't work like that mate. Your suggestion, your baby.,, If you really want it to work do something - if not stfu and stop misleading people. I myself probably would have tried to design something but I have a stressful job and a gf who I love and want to look after as best as i can who is going to have my baby in december.

We all got stressful jobs. The problem is your constant bitching about not having it written in stone. WP have agreed full stop not to have any allies next round and I didn't see |Darky| bitchin and moanin about not having rules written in bloood and triplicate.
Stop being so ****ing pathetic and just don't make any ****ing allies you bunch of wet eared moaning fkers.

Originally Posted by rumad

4) If you expect better replies start with better content in your own replies rather than misjudging and feeding disinformation into every post you write. It was also said tongue in cheek as I know you better than some posters but if you really think that was a 100% pan faced comment I guess thats you perrogative.

lol
Your replies are so comical it's scary. You accuse every single post that disagrees with you of being offtopic/trolling/inciting/clueless. So far this is the only significant argument I have ever seen you post in reply to anything anyone ever says. It didn't work for Lyrtas and it ain't working for you.

[Hicks]

Originally Posted by RealJames

The winners always get flamed.

What exactly has your third rate battle group turned support alliance won ? You’ve simply lived in FanGs shadow.

The only people who should be thanking each other this round are those who kept on fighting out numbered and out gunned against you overwhelming blocking wannabes.

Also crying about being attacked in havok James ? hahah there’s going to be lots of tears next round.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

So basically if you think for a second that someone might block up to kill you then you make your own block?

I can see the excuses already.

Lol, what is it with you pple? Trying to put words into our mouths? So now, you're accusing me for trying to find loopholes around the proposal, one that nobody but FAnG and WP agreed to? Maybe if other alliances would aswell, then there is no need to fear for other alliances to group and block.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Lol, what is it with you pple? Trying to put words into our mouths? So now, you're accusing me for trying to find loopholes around the proposal, one that nobody but FAnG and WP agreed to? Maybe if other alliances would aswell, then there is no need to fear for other alliances to group and block.

I do agree that it would be nice for other alliances to support the idea publicly.

I'm not putting words in your mouth mate, just making everyone aware of your intentions. With a bit of luck this might convince them not to go on a FAnG withchunt which is of no use to anyone.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

1) Stop treating people like they are idiots. His english is excellent and he knew exactly what he was writing.

2) If you're a straight guy why tell me you are leaving for good and definately not playing? You didn't mention a thing about coming back. Or playing if......etc.

3) We all got stressful jobs. The problem is your constant bitching about not having it written in stone. WP have agreed full stop not to have any allies next round and I didn't see |Darky| bitchin and moanin about not having rules written in bloood and triplicate.
Stop being so ****ing pathetic and just don't make any ****ing allies you bunch of wet eared moaning fkers.

4) Your replies are so comical it's scary. You accuse every single post that disagrees with you of being offtopic/trolling/inciting/clueless. So far this is the only significant argument I have ever seen you post in reply to anything anyone ever says. It didn't work for Lyrtas and it ain't working for you.

1) I aint treating anyone like idiots - i asked you to stop paraphrasing kj - he spoke as he wanted to say and any paraphrasing is taking what he said out of context.

2) Who knows what I will decide - I wil take each day as it comes and decide closer to he time. I have stepped down as a hc and I maybe having a second thoughts about not playing - either way its my decision to make.

3) The only reason I want a solid framework is because I want to seeit be sucessful - however you put it round 8 every "agreed" to go solo and it never happened. I want to see it sucessful, but on past experiences I would say that the only way you will get it completely unrefutable is by having it cast in stone and trying to plug all the holes you can. Some unscupulous people will always try to take advantage of loopholes or blatantly lie. If you dont have things tight ppl will just ignore for the most part imo.

3) The way I see it is you have brought a half finished proposal to te table. I support it but it needs something there that other hc can agree to - if not its dead in the water. Only way to get full support is by getting concensus - you haven't got that yet and wont unless ppl know what they are signing up for.

4) I guess thats your opinion. You have a right to it even though its wrong

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Rumad

1) I aint treating anyone like idiots - i asked you to stop paraphrasing kj - he spoke as he wanted to say and any paraphrasing is taking what he said out of context.

2) Who knows what I will decide - I wil take each day as it comes and decide closer to he time. I have stepped down as a hc and I maybe having a second thoughts about not playing - either way its my decision to make.

3) The only reason I want a solid framework is because I want to seeit be sucessful - however you put it round 8 every "agreed" to go solo and it never happened. I want to see it sucessful, but on past experiences I would say that the only way you will get it completely unrefutable is by having it cast in stone and trying to plug all the holes you can. Some unscupulous people will always try to take advantage of loopholes or blatantly lie. If you dont have things tight ppl will just ignore for the most part imo.

3) The way I see it is you have brought a half finished proposal to te table. I support it but it needs something there that other hc can agree to - if not its dead in the water. Only way to get full support is by getting concensus - you haven't got that yet and wont unless ppl know what they are signing up for.

4) I guess thats your opinion. You have a right to it even though its wrong

I very much suggest you talk to Kjeldoran. I'll leave it at that.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I very much suggest you talk to Kjeldoran. I'll leave it at that.

I just did as a rsult i am now independently posting on these boards my views alone.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Hicks

What exactly has your third rate battle group turned support alliance won ? You’ve simply lived in FanGs shadow.

If you could come up with some decent reasoned intelligent arguements then I might do less work and indulge you.

Originally Posted by Hicks

Also crying about being attacked in havok James ? hahah there’s going to be lots of tears next round.

I was having a bad day yesterday for many reasons, engaging with waffle in any way not involving torture wasn't high on my wishlist.

[Leinad]

seems like some "ex" Furys forgot their past and play now the high morale guys.
In past rounds ppl were so fair and could congratulate the round winners and that also after really boring and stagnated rounds caused by Fury/Legion.
Ofc there was also flaming etc. but shouldnt ppl know it better who were in a similar situation?
I have really no clue how ppl like Zhil and Co. can flame FAnG in such a way, sry but thats simply unfair.
For me as neutral person it looks like some 1up guys lost their last bit of brain and are just flaming FAnG whatever they say and do. That Fury/1up was also very board active and thus dominating the public opinion is something everyone is aware off but u take it to a level of total lameness.
Whenever Fury won it wasnt due to their own strength, in r2/3 Fury had never to fight Legion, it was a constant dont hit us we wont hit u between the by far 2 strongest alliances, in r5 u won together with Legion and some others by overblocking, in r7 u had again a big block on ur side.
So whats the morale of the story?
We all know that no alliance won on their own a round still it needs a lot of effort and time but i simply fail to see why FAnG should be worse than Fury and why the exact same persons which were part of Furys past feel the right to flame FAnG.
I and many others respect also Furys success as PA alliance so why is it so hard to accept (u dont even need to congratulate em) that FAnG won this round and played a good round or do u try to flame this victory away?
Thats is the attitude (directed at the 1up ppl) which leads to blocks in the first place, this bitching at each other, not respecting the work of others, simple grudge and nearly hate, taking things from one round to the next.
Maybe u should change ur behaviour before trying to be the morale guys cause how u act there is no chance that alliances will respect each other and keep to their words, u can't really expect ppl to play the game how u want it while u show no respect for them.

[LB|away]

/me nods @ leinad

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by Leinad

seems like some "ex" Furys forgot their past and play now the high morale guys.
In past rounds ppl were so fair and could congratulate the round winners and that also after really boring and stagnated rounds caused by Fury/Legion.
Ofc there was also flaming etc. but shouldnt ppl know it better who were in a similar situation?
I have really no clue how ppl like Zhil and Co. can flame FAnG in such a way, sry but thats simply unfair.
For me as neutral person it looks like some 1up guys lost their last bit of brain and are just flaming FAnG whatever they say and do. That Fury/1up was also very board active and thus dominating the public opinion is something everyone is aware off but u take it to a level of total lameness.
Whenever Fury won it wasnt due to their own strength, in r2/3 Fury had never to fight Legion, it was a constant dont hit us we wont hit u between the by far 2 strongest alliances, in r5 u won together with Legion and some others by overblocking, in r7 u had again a big block on ur side.
So whats the morale of the story?
We all know that no alliance won on their own a round still it needs a lot of effort and time but i simply fail to see why FAnG should be worse than Fury and why the exact same persons which were part of Furys past feel the right to flame FAnG.
I and many others respect also Furys success as PA alliance so why is it so hard to accept (u dont even need to congratulate em) that FAnG won this round and played a good round or do u try to flame this victory away?
Thats is the attitude (directed at the 1up ppl) which leads to blocks in the first place, this bitching at each other, not respecting the work of others, simple grudge and nearly hate, taking things from one round to the next.
Maybe u should change ur behaviour before trying to be the morale guys cause how u act there is no chance that alliances will respect each other and keep to their words, u can't really expect ppl to play the game how u want it while u show no respect for them.

thank you very very much

[ComradeRob]

[EDIT - decided to expand beyond a one-line post]

As far as pointless alliance flaming is concerned, you're all as bad as each other. In my opinion, the 'hate' directed towards FAnG now is much less than the 'hate' directed towards Fury/Legion in r3 (though people did often engage in this with a more humourous spirit than the anti-FAnG people).

However, FAnG were the best alliance in r10.5 - they finished #1 on the rankings and that's good enough for me. Whether they're as good as the alliances that won earlier rounds is a question that we will never have an accurate answer to, although there will be no shortage of opinions on the matter.

So, FAnG deserve credit and respect for their performance in round 10.5. In past rounds they have let themselves down - either through cheating scandals or internal difficulties - but in r10.5 they showed that they can function as an effective alliance, and can see the round through to the end. This is probably FAnG's greatest achievement and I think they can rightfully be proud of it. Those that say that FAnG didn't have to fight any real enemies also said the same thing about Eclipse in r9. My answer now is the same as it was then - you can only beat the enemies that exist, and FAnG, like Eclipse in r9, have done so.

As for next round, I very much hope that FAnG (and the other major alliances) agree to play next round without large pre-arranged blocks. I think the game would be improved considerably as a result of this, and I think that everyone would benefit from this. Let's also not forget that this isn't just about FAnG and 1up; plenty of other alliances could benefit from a block-free round. I have complete confidence that 1up will keep our word - we will not make any blocks, and our anti-blocking stance is not some evil ploy to manipulate the politics of r11. The reasons for wanting a block-free start are simple - we want a fair chance of winning, based on our skills as players, and we want everyone else to have an equal chance of winning too. We may argue on the details of how this should work, but I would hope that most alliances agree on the principle that reducing the power of blocks in the game would be a good thing for everyone.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

As far as pointless alliance flaming is concerned, you're all as bad as each other.

\o/

[Lupin]

i bet a couple of ppl dont know where the FFW-button is!

[waffle]

Originally Posted by RealJames

I was having a bad day yesterday for many reasons, engaging with waffle in any way not involving torture wasn't high on my wishlist.

awww, it's ok, it's only havoc buddy. . You think my suiciding annoys you in havoc, i can't wait till you see how horrible I'm going to make your round 11 experience. I'm on a mission to make your planet a nothing.

Also, why must you h8 me so badly over a petty game. Sad how some people can have so much hatred over the friggin internet. GG RealJames.

[Barrow|Pony]

most. class. post. ever.

[Cayl]

Referring to Rob's post and sig...

Does that mean you've just bestowed your highest honor on Maz and Rumad?

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by Leinad

seems like some "ex" Furys forgot their past and play now the high morale guys.
In past rounds ppl were so fair and could congratulate the round winners and that also after really boring and stagnated rounds caused by Fury/Legion.

Difference might be those threads were not started by fury. Its always shabby if the round winner congratulates himself, especially after such an uber stagnated round. Might look like taking the piss out of those who lost, or ?

Ofc there was also flaming etc. but shouldnt ppl know it better who were in a similar situation?
I have really no clue how ppl like Zhil and Co. can flame FAnG in such a way, sry but thats simply unfair.

beeing flamed on the internet is soo terribly unfair....
Its just a way of disagreeing, alot of different views are simply marked flames and trolls by certain fang hc members, lo rumad, no matter what you write or how well you structure your argumentation. Having a different view on a public forum is not unfair its to be exspected.

For me as neutral person it looks like some 1up guys lost their last bit of brain and are just flaming FAnG whatever they say and do. That Fury/1up was also very board active and thus dominating the public opinion is something everyone is aware off but u take it to a level of total lameness.

since this is 1ups first round any comparions is simply null and void, however your neutral status cased to exist in the moment you tried to insult someone and posted in favour of one "side" which ever side that may be.

Whenever Fury won it wasnt due to their own strength, in r2/3 Fury had never to fight Legion, it was a constant dont hit us we wont hit u between the by far 2 strongest alliances, in r5 u won together with Legion and some others by overblocking, in r7 u had again a big block on ur side.

You tried to make a smart post, just analysing history is not your strong point as it seems, so better stay away from it. r2/3 fury and legion could not fight, simply because they fought in the majority of the round the rest of the universe. End of r3 is another story. r5 wasa stagnation hype round, nocex beeing formed and never launching off the ground thanks to internal differences leaded to the first uberstagnation round which was spiced up with some ally droppings and some bad politics which leaded ultimatively to r6. Note that not only the losers splitted but also the winners had their beef and new alliances formed from disgrunted members of the previous winner block. r7 a big block fought a big block, one block won the other lost no huge story.
Fury won a few rounds on their own. Noone would fear or work with a weak partner over and over again and clearly fury was always a decisive part in the winning team.

So whats the morale of the story?
We all know that no alliance won on their own a round still it needs a lot of effort and time but i simply fail to see why FAnG should be worse than Fury and why the exact same persons which were part of Furys past feel the right to flame FAnG.
I and many others respect also Furys success as PA alliance so why is it so hard to accept (u dont even need to congratulate em) that FAnG won this round and played a good round or do u try to flame this victory away?

there is no need to flame this "victory" away, im sure the majority of the universe enjoyed the round enough to congratulate the winners on the hard fought victory. However you cant force ppl to congratulate the winner. If they want they will if they dont they wont.
Does Fang deserve it ? Personal choice and this is a free public board so...

Thats is the attitude (directed at the 1up ppl) which leads to blocks in the first place, this bitching at each other, not respecting the work of others, simple grudge and nearly hate, taking things from one round to the next.

I dont know if you have played all rounds but if you havent i can tell you that this ongoing hate and blame bitching is done by all sides and one more or less flamepost wont change that.
Ironically you use yourself Fury-1up in your post, implying any connection between those 2 alliances, something which is not the case apart from having certain commandmembers in place. By doing so you already project your own predjudice on 1up and therefore fit exactly in the sheme you try to curse in your post. Well done.

Maybe u should change ur behaviour before trying to be the morale guys cause how u act there is no chance that alliances will respect each other and keep to their words, u can't really expect ppl to play the game how u want it while u show no respect for them.

Alliances and players will always do what they like, respect or not its their decisions. 1up made a suggestion or a proposal. This includes inviting other ppl to a discussion and encouraging them to follow this way. However we acknowledge its their own choice and they must not follow it if they dont like it. We dont want anyone to play the game "our" way, either they do or they dont, its their final decision and pretty irrelevant to this thread since this thread turns around Fang, an alliance compared to the amount of players - alliances- hardly bearing an outstanding or unique position.

[Cayl]

Just so we're clear... the only person who definitively speaks FOR 1up is Synthetic Sid at this point. We haven't even properly delegated command staff yet.

I happen to disagree with a bit of what the others have said. I do find it amusing that some Ex-Fury forget what its like to be waging a defensive PR war from the top. its not fang's fault that mistu couldn't be arsed to try for #1, or that Phraktos imploded like a dropped television, or that the coalition was too fractured and scattered to offer resistance. Thats YOUR fault (pointing at the rest of the game besides fang).

However the self-congratulatory thread isn't really all that class. You can take some heat for that

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by LB|away

Sad thing that alliance politics were slightly messed up this round.

doh

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Cayl

Just so we're clear... the only person who definitively speaks FOR 1up is Synthetic Sid at this point. We haven't even properly delegated command staff yet.

I happen to disagree with a bit of what the others have said. I do find it amusing that some Ex-Fury forget what its like to be waging a defensive PR war from the top. its not fang's fault that mistu couldn't be arsed to try for #1, or that Phraktos imploded like a dropped television, or that the coalition was too fractured and scattered to offer resistance. Thats YOUR fault (pointing at the rest of the game besides fang).

However the self-congratulatory thread isn't really all that class. You can take some heat for that

I know LB long enough to know that his post was meant to congratz MISTU and the enemies. Ofc it would only be fair to congratz your own members and staff, after all they did it and not the "command".

And yes I admit, part of the posts are gloating, it's human nature and it's infact what alot ifnot most pple do on AD.

To Focht, I agree that pple have their own opinions, that they can think whatever they want about our victory. Yet I also think that this thread wasn't made so the rest could have a flame at us. Also, there's a difference in dissagreeing and flaming. I'm sure it sometimes is a thin line but I still believe that most anti FAnG are flames, yet not all (like Mazzelaars replies).

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by Cayl

Just so we're clear... the only person who definitively speaks FOR 1up is Synthetic Sid at this point. We haven't even properly delegated command staff yet.

I happen to disagree with a bit of what the others have said. I do find it amusing that some Ex-Fury forget what its like to be waging a defensive PR war from the top. its not fang's fault that mistu couldn't be arsed to try for #1, or that Phraktos imploded like a dropped television, or that the coalition was too fractured and scattered to offer resistance. Thats YOUR fault (pointing at the rest of the game besides fang).

However the self-congratulatory thread isn't really all that class. You can take some heat for that

This thread wasnt made to blame anyone or to congratulate ourselves.

Just look what LB did actually write:

"Also I like to thank the other alliances in the universe, the friendly one MISTU, it was a pleasure to play along side with you people. you showed us what real allies are this round. And the hostile ones, All of you did very well."

He just wanted to thank all players, all alliances for taking part on this round. Some guys really seem to work hard at starting flame wars at all costs...
If it was my intention to proceed with this verbal exchange of blows in here, I would give you some reasons why 1up benefits from this mass flaming, and systematically starts it...

Ofc different opinions are something we have to expect, but is an acknowledgement something you have to disagree with or something that has to be flamed?
Do you disagree, when he says, the entire Universe did a good job, although the politics were messed up?
LB did not rate anyone, he did not mention the word "victory" in his post, didnt express any aspersions... He carefully formulated the entire posting in a very reticant way and he did it on purpose.

Still if you want to flame somebody, you will find reasons for it, no matter what he says

[Cayl]

Your primary mistake is to assume that 3 pages later I'm attempting to directly refer to the original post.

[LEFF|pm]

I didnt atted to accuse you, just took your reply as an example.
Actually I agree with most of the things you said. If you start bragging around with your achievements, it would be naive to not expect people to begrudgigly start flaming you.
Check the first posts... It didnt start as a showing off, almost every poster was thanking the community, not gloating about a won round...

[Chika]

\o/!!!!!!! what a great thank you thread!!! thanks!!!!

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by waffle

awww, it's ok, it's only havoc buddy. . You think my suiciding annoys you in havoc, i can't wait till you see how horrible I'm going to make your round 11 experience. I'm on a mission to make your planet a nothing.

I think Hicks is racing you for that one. I'm flattered.

[Fyodor]

Personally I hope Fang makes early attempts to block and block often. If ive learned anything from PA politics is that it is filled with liars and back stabbers. So i think Fang should be as prepared for it as possible.

Sid says 1up shall not block accept if blah blah blah blah blah.
Focht says Fang stagnated a round he didnt even play so this stagnation is just a second hand concept to him.
Zhil says looopy loop hole.

I say whatever Fang does Fang does in the best interest of its members. And the rest of you should stop trying to dictate what fang or any other alliance should or shouldnt do. Its all nice to have mission statements about how things should be. But most of the time these proclamations arent worth the disk space they are written on because of who is doing the writing.

[ComradeRob]

Nobody is telling FAnG (or any other alliance) what to do. A proposal has been put forward for consideration and discussion; those who agree with it can help to make sure it happens. Those that disagree can make their arguments as to why they disagree. This is a debate going on about blocking which all alliances can take part in, and anyone can put forward improvements on the ideas already suggested. 1up may have initiated the debate, but the end result is up to everyone.

I think you're being too cynical, not just about 1up but also about FAnG, assuming that the best way for FAnG to win is by making a block. There are other ways to win, which may well be more fun than the traditional block scenario. FAnG have also now proved themselves as capable of winning a round - they might enjoy the greater challenge of winning without blocks.

Also, whilst I can't claim to speak for 1up, I do believe that our motivation is not political. Most of 1up's members are old players returning to the game, for one last round. We want to make it as fun as possible. We're not planning some evil political plan to dominate Planetarion for rounds to come - we just want a fun round of a game that we have all played and enjoyed for years.

Further to that, I believe that what the members of 1up are putting on the line is not just our alliance ranking, but our personal reputation as players. We're not playing to get 1up to the top of the rankings at all costs, we're playing to prove our talents as players. In my opinion, a round without blocks gives everyone a chance to prove their talents without being bashed down for being on the 'wrong' side of a huge war. We've all been and done the block thing before, and we could probably still be doing it now if we wanted to. The point is that we don't, and we believe that the majority of PA players feel the same way.

Personally I believe the proposal can work. Despite the conspiracy theories, most alliances have at least engaged in the debate. What happens next is up to the leaders of the alliances to decide, and I am hopeful that we might just have a very interesting round of Planetarion, instead of another predictable block round.

[Schizo]

thank u fang for a nice round. i dont care about ppl beeing jealouse on ur behalf and starts flaming this thread.
as mistu defence officer i now how hard u worked to achieve this victory =)

[LEFF|pm]

@comraderob

.. And I really dont want to deny that all of you guys just want to have a nice time again. Probably every single Pa player is here to have fun... at the expense of other players. That is the way planetarion works. You cannot respawn, start a new character or return to your homebase, when you are losing a war. Then the round is over for you and you did not just waste an hour or an evening but 2 or 3 months maybe.
This leads into wars filled with bitterness as players try to win at all costs.

And although you may say 1up is not Fury, it consists of the same players, who said similar things oftentimes. If ever an alliance was noted for its dishonesty, it was Fury, which I have experienced more then one time.
Dont get me wrong, they were absolutly entitled to do so, but they stagnated rounds more often then we did and tried to have fun at my costs and at the costs of others a very long time.
Whenever I trusted them, they took advantage from my dupability. At that time my naivity was absolutly my fault and I blame noone else for that.
But now I see exactly the same people under a different alliance name presenting themselves as the savers of fun in this game while not only manipulating but virtually dictating the public opionion on these boards by pure Quanitity.
Still I wont do the same mistake again and believe one single word they say. I´m absolutly sure, that they did not change and all of a sudden became honest.

Before i played planetarion and after I left i played a lot of games, and like in pa a lot of players played not according to the rules. But mostly cheaters try to manipulate the game or just try to get some advantages for themselves.
In planetarion you find players, who cheat just to harm other players, like hacking their computers, dossing their servers, infesting their harddisks with virusses or relying channels.
This behavior is not just unfair, it abuts on crime.
And the behavior within these boards is quite similar.
Not only Planetarion has some problems with decreasing numbers of players, other shop-soiled games as well, but usually the community reacts, tries to convince players to stay, behaves friendly, as they know they will only have fun as long they have some "enemies" to play with.
These boards appear completly different, hostile, blasphemous and almost abandoned, and noone seems to care any longer.
LB just wrote "thank you" and got offended and flamed like hell, cause 1up alleged him some kind of self-adulation, which clearly was not the case. And I dont think posters like Zhil, who speak and write english much better then me are too stupid to recognise this.
.. and if they have to deal unhonestly with him just to benefit from the resulting propaganda, I dare to doubt they will be honest and stick to their words when it comes to win or to lose a round

[Razorback]

@ Leff
i agree with your first paragraph completely, but who is guilty ? fact is all of us are guilty of this, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win. In your 2nd paragraph you prove exactly this applies to you aswell by drawing a Fury-1up "back in the days" comparison.

In your 2nd paragraph you just state that you are bitter, that you have made mistakes and basically blame others for them. Fact is that this is a game and however politics go, one day they can turn against you, the other day against your enemy. Afterall its a wargame and its played so that a fraction of players wins, like you pointed out yourself on the cost of others.
Your hatred towards Fury is funny, considering you only played with them 2 rounds a time in which your alliance folded once and were accordingly to the agreements informed about the end of relations, Dishonest ? no ties are created for eternity and exactly this feeling of "going together till hell freezes or otherwise feeling betrayed" causes stagnation. There is no space for gamebound friendships which come before your alliance. Friends you can have but you betray your alliance in the first moment you act in favour of your hc friend and against the best interests of your alliancemembers.
You dont see football pro's missing the goal cause a friend of them plays in another team, game is game, friendship is friendship if you cant devide those 2 pa politics is not the right place for you.

Going on in your reply i agree with you criminal cheating is a burden to pa, one that affects all alliances and did so since r3. Sadly if you are playing for the cup some loners try to "help" their cause with any means however this is not special for one side, considering even Fang had their "dosser" in r9 who was on behalf of irvine not kicked from Fang.
Again you initiate a witchhunt in which you are as guilty as the rest. Atleast passivly guilty since you cant control it and neither do you "order it".

Your analysis of other games is flawless however, communities encourage players to stay and to grow. Sadly this doesnt apply to pa, for many reasons.
The most simple one is the fact that we only need new players as "targets".
And thats how they simply end beeing used over and over till they are fed up and "empty". This game has like i stated a few times, reached its critical point, The community is small enough that everyone knows everyone (nearly) and the price + fun dont generate new players. If it does it only generates the extend needed to replace losses without bringing any total gain.

As a conclusion from this it takes a change from the players way of playing to generate a more open playing field and alot of advertising and fair costs to encourage new players.
Many more ideas regarding buddy system and other areas are atm plastered over the board and hopefully will bring the needed influx of new players.
You dismiss any proposal made by 1up because its made by 1up and this is a pity but not the end of the world. Only sid speaks for 1up but i doubt he exspected every single player to agree wholeheartly to his proposal. Atleast you can hope and we will see in r11 how it develops

[Cooling]

Leff your cynicism is admirable, but what would the point be in coming back to this game if most of us have been through the same situation several times and grown bored because of this. You must have seen for yourself this round how boring a stagnated round becomes when you are on the winning team; sure its "rather nice", but there really is very little challenge in roiding low ratio planets and fortress galaxies of utterly destroyed alliances.

Speaking for myself here, I only want to play this game in a non block situation, I have a desire to test my skills at the game without the massive advantage that an all powerful block gives me. I did that before in round 3, 4, 5 and 7. I know im speaking for most of the old timers when I say: we've been there, we've done that and we are quite sick of the same old situation.

If you want to claim we are proposing no blocks from a desire to dupe the community and win the game through some devious means, my question is, why would 1up not just block from the outset, own the lot of you and go away with the dubious "honour" of winning the round. Im tired of that game plan, I want a challenge ffs, if I wanted block wars v 20 id go play that other game.

I want to win this round, but I want to do it right this time, fairly.

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

@comraderob

.. And I really dont want to deny that all of you guys just want to have a nice time again. Probably every single Pa player is here to have fun... at the expense of other players. That is the way planetarion works. You cannot respawn, start a new character or return to your homebase, when you are losing a war. Then the round is over for you and you did not just waste an hour or an evening but 2 or 3 months maybe.
This leads into wars filled with bitterness as players try to win at all costs.

That's kinda true. I do think it is possible to play without the 'win at all costs' mentality though. My personal experience of this was round 6. Whilst many of the things that Deus did when I was HC were not too different from what everyone else was doing - we formed a block, just like Fury and Xanadu had done. However, when the FLVT block was beaten, we could have allied Xanadu and turned on our weaker block members. Instead, we took Xanadu on, despite being the most exposed alliance on our side. The result was that Wolfpack and NoS (with tacit Xan/Ely support by the end of the round due to the NEWX deal for r7) finished with higher ranking galaxies and planets than us. We still made a respectable showing, but we sacrificed a possible #1 spot for the chance to fight Xanadu. Many people (probably including myself at some point) have exaggerated the importance of round 6, but I do believe it shows that alliances are capable of being 'clever' whilst also trying to make the game fun.

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

And although you may say 1up is not Fury, it consists of the same players, who said similar things oftentimes. If ever an alliance was noted for its dishonesty, it was Fury, which I have experienced more then one time.
Dont get me wrong, they were absolutly entitled to do so, but they stagnated rounds more often then we did and tried to have fun at my costs and at the costs of others a very long time.
Whenever I trusted them, they took advantage from my dupability. At that time my naivity was absolutly my fault and I blame noone else for that.
But now I see exactly the same people under a different alliance name presenting themselves as the savers of fun in this game while not only manipulating but virtually dictating the public opionion on these boards by pure Quanitity.
Still I wont do the same mistake again and believe one single word they say. I´m absolutly sure, that they did not change and all of a sudden became honest.

I think it's a bit unfair to describe Fury as 'dishonest'. Clever, ruthless and ambitious would all be words that could be applied to Fury, but I think 'dishonest' is not true.

I can only repeat what I said before - if we still wanted to be making blocks and winning the game that way, we could easily be doing so. We do want to win, but we would accept a fair defeat, if another alliance genuinely outplayed us. It is my genuine hope that 1up does not have any allies during r11, and I believe that even if we lose we will be able to take pride in playing the game the way we think it should be played.

Having taken some time away from PA, much of the 'hate' between alliances now seems ridiculous to me. A year ago I probably would have been flaming FAnG and would have supported any means necessary to beat FAnG (or whoever else the enemy of the day was). Now, I'd just rather see a good, enjoyable round of Planetarion. It might be too much to hope that we can play the round in a spirit of fun and enjoyment for all, but I do hope that we can avoid the bitter block wars, with all the hatred and boredom that they bring. That's certainly not what I'm coming back to PA for, and I think most 1up members feel the same way.

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Before i played planetarion and after I left i played a lot of games, and like in pa a lot of players played not according to the rules. But mostly cheaters try to manipulate the game or just try to get some advantages for themselves.
In planetarion you find players, who cheat just to harm other players, like hacking their computers, dossing their servers, infesting their harddisks with virusses or relying channels.
This behavior is not just unfair, it abuts on crime.
And the behavior within these boards is quite similar.
Not only Planetarion has some problems with decreasing numbers of players, other shop-soiled games as well, but usually the community reacts, tries to convince players to stay, behaves friendly, as they know they will only have fun as long they have some "enemies" to play with.
These boards appear completly different, hostile, blasphemous and almost abandoned, and noone seems to care any longer.
LB just wrote "thank you" and got offended and flamed like hell, cause 1up alleged him some kind of self-adulation, which clearly was not the case. And I dont think posters like Zhil, who speak and write english much better then me are too stupid to recognise this.
.. and if they have to deal unhonestly with him just to benefit from the resulting propaganda, I dare to doubt they will be honest and stick to their words when it comes to win or to lose a round

In my opinion, AD has pretty much ceased as an effective tool for swaying 'public opinion'. I don't think it has had any real importance since round 6, and so I don't think there's much for any alliance to gain from 'propaganda' on these forums. The reason for that is that so many alliance leaders now have been around long enough to know all of the tricks other alliances use, and won't be swayed by a few well-written posts or witty arguments.

The anti-FAnG flaming is not really any different to what happened to other alliances in the past. The winning alliance always gets the most shit on AD. The only thing you can do is ignore posts which you think are unreasonable, instead of replying to them. Trolls and flamers only exist because people reply to them.

As for LB's post, I think it might have been somewhat misunderstood. Whilst I'm sure LB had perfectly good intentions, and merely wished to thank everyone for a good round, this was probably misinterpreted as self-glorification. Imagine President Bush thanking the Iraqis for a nice war - people don't like to see the winners talking about how great everything is, especially if they're the losers.

[LB|away]

please do not forget, that this only a game. outside the battlefield I see everyone as friends and equals.

Why shouldnt I be able, when a round is finished, to thank my oponents and allies for yet again another round of this "GAME"

Every round when FAnG lost, disbanded. Or didnt succeed, I joined the chans of the winning alliances, to congratulate them.
I see no harm in this game, it shouldnt affect peoples opinion about others.
Ofcouse at some points we shout and flame at each other. but that is when alliance politics and the wars that we have heaten up and the game becomes fun.

But come on, inbetween rounds, I am friends with even my enemies.
Thanking them for playing this round seemed not out of the ordinary to me.
Also there was notthing wrong with my post, it couldnt be understood wrong, only if you dont wanna understand it.

[LEFF|pm]

By reading Focht`s reply I absolutly felt confirmed in my personal appreciation, but rob and coolings seem to understand what I was trying to say and to have reasonable interests in a round without blocks.
And Focht wont play anyways
Maybe Its just a bit unfair from me to lump all the Fury and 1up guys together.

No offence

We´ll see, what next round brings

[alch]

Originally Posted by ComradRob

In my opinion, AD has pretty much ceased as an effective tool for swaying 'public opinion'. I don't think it has had any real importance since round 6, and so I don't think there's much for any alliance to gain from 'propaganda' on these forums. The reason for that is that so many alliance leaders now have been around long enough to know all of the tricks other alliances use, and won't be swayed by a few well-written posts or witty arguments.

I think you are wrong here. ( the bit of 'AD has pretty much ceased as an effective tool for swaying 'public opinion'')

The next lines are addressed to the planetarion community as one:

AD is still a tool of propaganda, maybe not between us (the old players) because we do see the lies and do see the manipulation inside the posts, but the propaganda do affect the NEW players, the one who just joined this round or re-joined after few years of exile.
They are still naive and do not understand fully the politics and they still dont know the history of the game as they werent here when it happens, so they are fairly and quite well manipulated.
Not manipulated only by the bittered players but also by the winners and the sweettalkers, almost every players here has a hand in the matter.
You might think that this Forum is quite dead, but you are wrong, i've been talking to quite lot new players, the one that you won't see day day, unknown players, there is a lot and only maybe 5% of them are even on IRC.
They do not register on The forums of even do not post on AD for ONLY one reason:
They are scared to be flamed and scared of the 'veterans' around. (that exactly the line i've heard from the mouth of one of the player i have been talking to)

So, When i listen to this crap (blocks blocks blocks), i understand well all what you are saying and i do agree with the peope saying that block harm this game.
I do also see a pattern in this blocking, there wasnt a single round (as far as i am concerned) that alliances didnt block (im not talking about pushing the game to stagnate).
This is as ancient as the world is, countries were always alliying other countries to make sure that their hand will be on the top.
But while we are all flaming each other, we forgot another thing, we forgot that we harm OUR images and Planetarion Image.

Old players came back last round and this round, and some also thanks to 1up, i should thanks them for attracting new/old players to this game, but one of the reason that this game is decreasing in numbers is because we keep to harm the environment.
We not only play and cheat, but also flame and yell and misbehaved and walk around and dictate and tyran like we own the place.

If you think that crying and deploring this game because of only the block and the cheaters and blame the same persons over rounds (i am talking generally and not taking any stand) then you are just hypocrite, you do not understand that one of the reason is that this game is not Favorable and not friendly to new users.

Don't forget that this game is based on player numbers, WE (minority of flamers) harms the game and stop a possible growing of the community, when i talk about community, i am not talking about the numbers of planets Gamer-wise, but i am talking about the number of players interacting with each other on The forums and on the IRC.

On the irc we are quite a big community, but a stable one (the fact is this is a netgamers irc network, not a Planetarion server - so the numbers are larger than the actual PA playing community).
While on AD, you could count the numbers of Planetarion Players posting and reacting on each other threads. The community on AD is small and very unfriendly.

You might ask yourself "What the hell do we care about AD?" or other questions that point that AD is not that important and is just a tool of propaganda and flaming.
The facts is that new players that didnt discovered yet the IRC and do not connect to the Netgamers irc network, are seeking for some kind of interaction with the other planets around them (not only their gals or their alliances on the alliance forums) they want to expand and talk with their ennemies too and see what the community look likes.

When they arrive to this link, and see all theses crappy threads and see that new players (generally with low post counts and naive behavior) are being flamed by the old Forum users (generally monstruous post counts) they do see a unfriendly community.
And player tend to not stay in a unfriendly community. the reason that people are playing massive internet games nowdays are because of the game and the interaction between the players.

So, i have a proposition to you players, and that includes all sides, including me too.
Let's watch our words You can still write propaganda on theses forums and let the wise men decide what is true or what is wrong.
But understand that every bit of flaming or every bit of unfriendly responses might push the next new player to decide and abandon the game and tell his potential next new players (his friends) to not play this game because the community is unfriendly.

If we do this and we also change our playing style and some other aspects of the game, we might actually progress and encourage the game growing.

that my 10 cents. This post is general, its not attented to be directed to anyone on theses forums and are just a friendly advice, you may decide to listen to it or decide to ignore it.

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

By reading Focht`s reply I absolutly felt confirmed in my personal appreciation, but rob and coolings seem to understand what I was trying to say and to have reasonable interests in a round without blocks.
And Focht wont play anyways
Maybe Its just a bit unfair from me to lump all the Fury and 1up guys together.

No offence

We´ll see, what next round brings

Funny enough i agree on 3 of the 4 paragraphs you wrote.
Asfar as not playing next round many rumors are around, yourself not playing either this debate is kinda senseless, right ?

P.S. i do have interest in a round without blocks aswell like stated a few times, like usuall leff seems only to read what his selective memory can grasp into any post he reads.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

@comraderob

snip

Calling Fury 'dishonest' is wrong. Ruthless, yes. Fury always tried to stick to agreements, although at times could be pedantic (the entire Titans-Fury r7 thing was rather picky in applying rules and terms.)

Problem here is you are comparing 1up to Fury. They are not the same. 1up consists of players from various backgrounds. I understand why you call it Fury, after all it's what Sid was most 'famous' for amongst other players in the alliance. Fact is, you're trying to imply that 1up will go the same route as Fury - if this is what Sid wanted, he would have just made Fury reborn with the same name and everything and already be on his way in forming political agreements.

Alot of people (as already expressed) within 1up have "been there, done that" for blocks and so have no wish for such a universe.

I also agree with Rob's post really regarding LB and this thread.

My apologies to FAnG for my slanderous remarks.

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

I also agree with Rob's post really regarding LB and this thread.

My apologies to FAnG for my slanderous remarks.

wtf?

Is my selective memory pulling a trick on me or did I in fact read an apology from Zhil?
How dare you! My world picture of the evhul Fury is about to collapse!

uh oh.... my head is swimming

FOCHT! FLAME ME!! MAKE HASTE!!!

[Banned]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

wtf?

Is my selective memory pulling a trick on me or did I in fact read an apology from Zhil?
How dare you! My world picture of the evhul Fury is about to collapse!

Maybe he doesn't care anymore.

[Cayl]

Zhil's recently come into several more pieces of "The Big Picture" and is man enough to admit when he's made a mistake. You can take it at face value

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

wtf?

Is my selective memory pulling a trick on me or did I in fact read an apology from Zhil?
How dare you! My world picture of the evhul Fury is about to collapse!

uh oh.... my head is swimming

FOCHT! FLAME ME!! MAKE HASTE!!!

I made presumptions based on information I had. Additionally, I also used public posts made by certain FAnG individuals to be the "line" that FAnG were following. (And Sid's response to it.)

However, it seems my comments were misplaced, thus I retract any statements referring to any FAnG opposition to no blocks for next round, since your alliance has actually expressed an interest in this.

I do not agree with posting lies and such, thus why I feel an apology was necessary to retain integrity.