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16 Sep 2006, 21:51
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2
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Log In Questions
I notice a lot of the anti bot log in questions have been changed to ask things like "What race ship is the buccaneer?". Its great to see these changed as it ws difficult to read many of the old ones.
However, I believe questions like this new type make it difficult for new players to the game. Great for the more experienced players as we know where to find the answer. But for a new player to the game, I should imagine finding the answers would be difficult, maybe to the point where the player may decide not to bother playing at all!
Just my thoughts.
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16 Sep 2006, 22:43
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#2
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[TGV] Wots It
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 135
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwjones
But for a new player to the game, I should imagine finding the answers would be difficult, maybe to the point where the player may decide not to bother playing at all!
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I was going to point out the helpful link to the shipstats just below the question - but having looked again, I realised that it may not be clear enough to new players that this is where the answers are located....
notsure
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TGV Wots It
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16 Sep 2006, 23:17
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#3
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: Log In Questions
Perhaps the helpful link and text description etc need to be bigger - in fact maybe all of the info around the bot stopepr needs to be made cleaer so people know what it is etc.?
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17 Sep 2006, 01:15
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#4
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F Crew
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sorel, quebec, canada
Posts: 268
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Re: Log In Questions
as long as we can read it.. :-)
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17 Sep 2006, 21:27
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2
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Re: Log In Questions
Yeah, many times last round i just had to refresh screen to get a new question cause it was totally unreadable, or some of the text was even outside the "text" box.... Make it atleast to it's possible to read, and make the questions easy
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18 Sep 2006, 09:24
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#6
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Fear - HC
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Salisbury, Wilts
Posts: 52
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Perhaps the helpful link and text description etc need to be bigger - in fact maybe all of the info around the bot stopepr needs to be made cleaer so people know what it is etc.?
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Also there should be a simple "I dont know" link which then displays a different question?
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First Encounter Attack Recon [FEAR] HC
#Fear on NetGamers
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18 Sep 2006, 16:48
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#7
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Jazz Man
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,494
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sten
Also there should be a simple "I dont know" link which then displays a different question?
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No.
By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.
By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
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Marv
Ex ROCK HC & PA Team Head of Support.
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18 Sep 2006, 17:06
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#8
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Dreamer in Pit of Hell
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 443
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Re: Log In Questions
besides there is already a 'i dont know button' its called f5 on your keyboard...or the refresh button on your browser
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19 Sep 2006, 01:29
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#9
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
besides there is already a 'i dont know button' its called f5 on your keyboard...or the refresh button on your browser
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mind you, people dont know about that untill they submit a support ticket or drop by #support, and/or worry whether the refresh page counts towards their failed login attempts (which it doesnt).
Perhaps its worth mentioning on the page that F5 is your friend?
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19 Sep 2006, 02:06
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: Log In Questions
Questions about ship classes are a bit nasty even for regular players. New stats every round... at least they knowwhere to look for the answer... noobs won't.
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<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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19 Sep 2006, 18:51
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: haarlem, netherlands
Posts: 471
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Perhaps the helpful link and text description etc need to be bigger - in fact maybe all of the info around the bot stopepr needs to be made cleaer so people know what it is etc.?
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whats wrong with 5X6 or "write the following text" kinda questions
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20 Sep 2006, 12:29
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23
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Re: Log In Questions
Just do easy calculation questions only. If it is to prevent bots logging in, I dont see why these wouldnt be good enough
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20 Sep 2006, 12:35
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#13
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Hamster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Crewe, England
Posts: 3,606
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Re: Log In Questions
I agree, the bot stoppers there NOT to improve players game or general knowledge OR to be an announce its there to reduce the impact that bots have on the game.
The questions should be as simple as possible so that its a minor inconviance
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Wakey
PD and Suggestions Moderator
Co-founder of [F-Crew]
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Cos anything else is just an alliance
Join our public channel at #f-crew
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20 Sep 2006, 13:12
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#14
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wasted
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
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Re: Log In Questions
Agreed. Simple questions only, questions that any newbie who has never played before should be able to answer.
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“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
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20 Sep 2006, 13:43
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#15
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SpamBot
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Yam Yam land
Posts: 172
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
No.
By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.
By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
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Then a link should be displayed to said tool on the question screen (to my knowledge there isnt already...am i right?), insetad of prospective customer/noob trawling through the portal thinking "i paid £5 for this?!"
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<TomKat> my signature is the greatest on the entire internet
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20 Sep 2006, 13:45
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#16
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SpamBot
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Yam Yam land
Posts: 172
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I agree, the bot stoppers there NOT to improve players game or general knowledge OR to be an announce its there to reduce the impact that bots have on the game.
The questions should be as simple as possible so that its a minor inconviance
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Its an entry point into the game...ofc the original purpose is to stop bots, but certainly it could be used in a different way, e.g. to influenece the newer players to explore PA a bit more. I see nothing detrimental about that.
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[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
<TomKat> my signature is the greatest on the entire internet
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20 Sep 2006, 16:24
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 44
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Re: Log In Questions
If they want to learn more then they can do it off their own back surely? All the links to manual/stats etc are clearly defined, it doesn't take too long to have a read through - especially if they plan on going p2p.
I lost a tick or 2 on the speedgame with the "write this backwards: 9" questions, or the ones that mix numeric digits and words and then don't tell you what to write the answer as. Surely a "repeat the text" one would be easier for all concerned?
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What? It's what Jesus would have said, right?
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20 Sep 2006, 17:33
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#18
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SpamBot
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Yam Yam land
Posts: 172
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy
If they want to learn more then they can do it off their own back surely?
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Thats assuming that they want to. If they dont then we have to make them want to, or guide them a little bit.
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[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
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20 Sep 2006, 21:43
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#19
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wasted
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Under the floorboards
Posts: 1,240
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Re: Log In Questions
Surely anyone who bothers to sign up for a game wants to do well? And maybe they don't want to spend hours reading the manual anyway?
The proper incentive to read the manual is in the top right corner of the screen - the player's rank in the universe. Forcing newbies to spend several minutes looking at the manual every time they want to log in is likely to annoy them more than it helps them, and may even put them off playing permanently.
__________________
“They were totally confused,” said the birdman, whose flying suit gives him a passing resemblance to Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story. “The authorities said that I was an unregistered aircraft and to fly, you need a licence. I told them, ‘No. To fly, you need wings’.”
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20 Sep 2006, 22:16
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#20
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The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
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Re: Log In Questions
Any chance of putting all the time and effort spent on the botstopper into the game itself? We might have a half decent game then!
Seriously though, the botstopper should be limited to simple questions, I'd say a simple "read the image" is sufficient. If someone is determined to cheat then they'd use remote desktops to get people to watch their account for them.
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25 Sep 2006, 01:01
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#21
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Bline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Texas, US
Posts: 233
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie
Just do easy calculation questions only. If it is to prevent bots logging in, I dont see why these wouldnt be good enough
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Easy being the operative word. The current calculations need you to think hard or get the calculator out. My maths skills are definately improving through PA.
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25 Sep 2006, 15:28
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#22
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Easy being the operative word. The current calculations need you to think hard or get the calculator out. My maths skills are definately improving through PA.
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Not a bad thing then ?
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25 Sep 2006, 17:19
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#23
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: Log In Questions
I feel bad whining about this, since PA team actually listened to the complaints and made the questions readable. I don't see why they changed them though (except the capitals )
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25 Sep 2006, 18:06
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#24
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
I feel bad whining about this, since PA team actually listened to the complaints and made the questions readable. I don't see why they changed them though (except the capitals )
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the questions are now randmly generated on the fly rather than having a static list, this means its not posisble to simply generate a list of al the questions and answers for bots to use.
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25 Sep 2006, 20:20
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#25
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
the questions are now randmly generated on the fly rather than having a static list, this means its not posisble to simply generate a list of al the questions and answers for bots to use.
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Yeah, now we have to write OCR-capable calculators instead of failing to solve it automatically at all!
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Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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25 Sep 2006, 21:31
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#26
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
No.
By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.
By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
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Jesus Christ.
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You're now playing ketchup
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26 Sep 2006, 00:26
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 367
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
No.
By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.
By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
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Or just force them right away.
sounds like a really stupid idea to me.
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NewDawn - Soaring where angels fear to fly
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26 Sep 2006, 17:14
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#28
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PA Team
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England or Wales
Posts: 335
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Re: Log In Questions
The idea of asking sure questions does improve knowledge of the game for new players who wish to learn. There are quick help tips at the bottom of the login page, so should a new player wish to learn they can. Otherwise there is not a problem with it, they can use the ever trusty F5.
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26 Sep 2006, 20:06
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#29
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Log In Questions
I (as a new player) would just be annoyed and turned off from a game which tries to lecture me with questions like "What race is a Thief from?".
Quests are a good way to make people learn about the game while also rewarding the players for doing them. They can be done in-game when you have time and between ticks and dont work as a fence keeping you from playing or checking out a game.
Bring back an extensive quest system with rewards and drop login questions which new players cant answer without studying manuals.
ps: this could include a quest to join the netgamers irc and maybe even register a nick (verification can be done by a bot). Maybe even a daily quest for small planets on irc or a PA trivia quiz. Or how about a quest which requires cooperation of 2 or 3 planets of approx. the same size if they arent in any alliance? loads of possibilities
Last edited by Ramihyn; 26 Sep 2006 at 20:13.
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11 Nov 2006, 23:52
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#30
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: Log In Questions
I found a very easy login system that requires some hand to eye coordination and should be relativly botsafe.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6...checkerng3.jpg
Cant PA use something like this?
It works by seing the number on the screen and then selecting the right box for the number.. It would be alot easier than previous login thingies.
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Planetarion veteran
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12 Nov 2006, 00:13
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#31
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I found a very easy login system that requires some hand to eye coordination and should be relativly botsafe.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6...checkerng3.jpg
Cant PA use something like this?
It works by seing the number on the screen and then selecting the right box for the number.. It would be alot easier than previous login thingies.
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Detecting the text in the upper box isnt any problem.
I fail to see how instead of "enter the char 3" a "click the box with the 3" should make any difference against bots?
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12 Nov 2006, 00:32
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#32
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: Log In Questions
It could ofc be made abit darker etc. But I think the main thing here is that the current login system is so rediculus (or so i've been told) that its even not showing the right questions in firefox..
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Planetarion veteran
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12 Nov 2006, 00:44
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#33
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Emperor
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: in front of a computer
Posts: 490
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
It could ofc be made abit darker etc.
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Making things darker would be as pointless as those silly lines in the background and then giving the chars different colors. Its like proving to everybody that the creator has no clue about image processing.
Those things only annoy humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
But I think the main thing here is that the current login system is so rediculus (or so i've been told) that its even not showing the right questions in firefox..
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That would be a bug to fix and no need to change the system.
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12 Nov 2006, 01:17
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#34
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: Log In Questions
i like the current botstopper questions it helps me with my maths!
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"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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12 Nov 2006, 01:56
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 18
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Re: Log In Questions
I haven't had a single non-maths question yet, is something wrong?
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12 Nov 2006, 05:21
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#36
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Im Back :)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 189
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Re: Log In Questions
same...all i ever get is the math questions...whats the point in having those hints if there aint no questions on them
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12 Nov 2006, 11:50
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#37
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Log In Questions
The math questions (e.g. 67+84) are ridiculous. If a bot can't solve 67+84, it can't solve 2+3 either, so why the hell make them so high? The high numbers only takes about 2x the time to solve, but it's still annoying
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9 Dec 2006, 20:50
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greece, Athens
Posts: 18
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Re: Log In Questions
y not just put something like "type what u see below" its the most common anti bot question....
yes i know its an old thread...(blame Kargool for that ) :P
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9 Dec 2006, 22:11
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#39
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Average Thex
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 121
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Re: Log In Questions
Can we remove the questions during havoc and before the start of tick 1?
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My alliance is [BIG]ger than yours
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9 Dec 2006, 22:51
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#40
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PA Team
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 290
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Re: Log In Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreCkeRer
y not just put something like "type what u see below" its the most common anti bot question....
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It maybe simple, but some bots can "see" text using Optical Character Recognition, whilst this will stop a basic bot, it will not stop a determined coder.
Basic intelligence captchas requiring the user to read and answer a question are needed, and imo the random numbers generated need to be smaller and the operation (addition, subtraction, multiplication etc) symbols made clearer so that you can't confuse + with x.
My two cents
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10 Dec 2006, 11:39
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Greece, Athens
Posts: 18
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Re: Log In Questions
fair enough then
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