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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 19:33   #151
Aedolaws
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Re: Official Denial Statement

JM, is not going to happen. So lets let it go! Is over.
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 19:39   #152
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
When did I ever accuse or state this to be fact? I didn't. Don't turn hypothetical questions into your assumed facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
But in all honesty can you say that is the reason that attack occurred last night?
What i was saying was, join the real world mate, we all know why the hit was organised, and it wasnt cheating.
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 20:21   #153
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
Had it been for that justification then I'd see nothing wrong with it, because of the nature of the game. But in all honesty can you say that is the reason that attack occurred last night?
Let's put it like this, I'm pretty sure no one would have bothered hitting them if they'd had no roids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
If there was no malicious intent because of their few members cheating as a cause for that attack last night, then i have to give kudos to Ascendancy for puppeteering people to there will.

I took last round off so i was not here for the Ascendancy fiasco.
I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean by "malicious intent"? Whose? Directed at what? Explain.
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 21:00   #154
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Let's put it like this, I'm pretty sure no one would have bothered hitting them if they'd had no roids.


I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean by "malicious intent"? Whose? Directed at what? Explain.
Malicious intent as in the communities organized attack was directed at Denial particularly for the sole reason of having cheaters within the alliance.

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that the attack on them, was just to keep them from running away with the win?
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 21:44   #155
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
Malicious intent as in the communities organized attack was directed at Denial particularly for the sole reason of having cheaters within the alliance.

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that the attack on them, was just to keep them from running away with the win?
only a fool would do that.
Theres nothing stopping denial members who are also fed up with their ethically bankrupt HC from jumping ship to other alliances either ....
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 22:45   #156
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedolaws
PA is a team game. I am not part of their team. We already went over this JM. supra
Will you please, for the love of god, stop saying supra after every ****ing thing you say?
And also stop trying to come up with other ways to punish Denial for their cheating. The people that cheated have allready been punished by the MH. It's the MH's job to punish people that cheat or do other stuff that is wrong.

I am very glad that you aren't a multihunter
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 23:13   #157
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Re: Official Denial Statement

i'm pretty sure the horse is dead gentlemen.
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 23:28   #158
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Will you please, for the love of god, stop saying supra after every ****ing thing you say?
NO! supra
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 23:31   #159
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii
i'm pretty sure the horse is dead gentlemen.
but everyone likes to poke dead things with a stick

/poke
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 23:44   #160
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that the attack on them, was just to keep them from running away with the win?
No, I actually went out of my way to specifically not say that.

In my personal opinion, most of the alliances that hit Denial last night would have done so sooner had they had the means, even if they hadn't cheated. The entire "omg hax" scandal provided a perfect motivation for alliance to come together and finally do what they had really wanted all along, and this time they even had a really good reason to give their members, other than "we want roids!".

So while this would not have happened without the cheating, the motivation for it was not just the cheating. We can bicker about how much it was the cheating and how much the running away with the round, but ultimately it doesn't matter.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 25 Jun 2008, 23:50   #161
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No, I actually went out of my way to specifically not say that.

In my personal opinion, most of the alliances that hit Denial last night would have done so sooner had they had the means, even if they hadn't cheated. The entire "omg hax" scandal provided a perfect motivation for alliance to come together and finally do what they had really wanted all along, and this time they even had a really good reason to give their members, other than "we want roids!".

So while this would not have happened without the cheating, the motivation for it was not just the cheating. We can bicker about how much it was the cheating and how much the running away with the round, but ultimately it doesn't matter.
i see your point, i expected it to happen at some point in time myself, but not to this scale, and not with all the parties involved, meh oh well.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 00:22   #162
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Re: Official Denial Statement

I understand that my little post probably won't be read by you all, for I am not a big member of this community. I accept the fact that my post probably won't change this discussion and I understand I am probably meddling in stuff too big for me. But amazement is like beer, it makes us do things that we otherwise wouldn't have done.

I am amazed how some are assuming all denial members are guilty aswell. But how, how could a normal Denial member have known a few of his trusted leaders had done something this horrible to a game he loves? They didn't talk about it on irc, they didn't give us their passwords to check if they weren't cheating, cheating-scans aren't invented yet, they don't know the coordinates of their officers to check their progress! What legitimate way is there for a peon to see if his fellow man isn't cheating?

I am amazed how some think the entire denial alliance should be banned. Why? For the cheating gave hundreds upon hundreds of extra roids? For it gave thousands of extra ships? Millions of extra score? No wait... It was a lazier way of having ships in eternal production. Was it the few extra xp that gave Denial firm 1st place, which they still retained after the closing of some topplanets? No, it was the hard work of the honest 'criminals', who for love of the game and their alliance spend long nights in front of their computer, wake up during the night, rush home from work to check their landings.

The culprits were caught! They suffered, Denial suffered, the community suffered for this scandalous act. And we have suffered enough! They lost more score than was cheated, we too much dignity to the flames of some posts. Let us turn our energy to logic and to give this filthy round at least an amazing ending!

p.s. all of you who secretly try to mass-block against Denial: stop! you will fail. Denial HCs have scripted something so that they cannot lose. I am sure Sun_Tzu meant this in his post aswell.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 00:38   #163
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAU4ever
I understand that my little post probably won't be read by you all, for I am not a big member of this community. I accept the fact that my post probably won't change this discussion and I understand I am probably meddling in stuff too big for me. But amazement is like beer, it makes us do things that we otherwise wouldn't have done.
If you start out expecting to fail, you'll almost never be surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAU4ever
<insert rest of post here>
This has all been said before in the thread. While I welcome your contribution, endless repetition is not exactly going to achieve anything.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 11:08   #164
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedolaws
PA is a team game. I am not part of their team. We already went over this JM. supra
Are you responsible if someone in your galaxy or alliance cheats?
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 11:21   #165
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
only a fool would do that.
Theres nothing stopping denial members who are also fed up with their ethically bankrupt HC from jumping ship to other alliances either ....
Sadly it would seem that at worst alot of Denials members are as ethically bankrupt as the HC or at best simply don't care what cheating goes on as long as its giving them either a direct or indirect advantage as rather than having people leaving in disgust they seem to have more people wanting to join them.

I know maybe there isnt many options elsewhere but it does give the view to the outside world that the members are in support of cheating. If it was me I would have seen about bring as much as possible over to a new alliance without these questionable people's involvement
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 12:15   #166
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirikk
Are you responsible if someone in your galaxy or alliance cheats?
Clearly he is, even where there is know way of possibly knowing the cheating is going on, even if you were on the moon for a month (no internet access) and in vac mode then you got exiled.

Even in a random galaxy where the others weren't chosen but they're still on the same team because no doubt THE LAW says people are accessories (seriously it was on that episode of Law & Order where the kid plays baseball, you know the one I mean).

Actually posting in a thread about cheating is tacitly endorsing it because it invites impure thoughts into your head and your account should be closed.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 12:36   #167
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirikk
Are you responsible if someone in your galaxy or alliance cheats?
To a degree yes, you obviously shouldnt get the same punishment as the cheaters but you are part of a team and are an accessory and as such are to a certain degree guilty by association.

Its why this "we only reset them as it would cripple the alliance" is bullshit as it hindering the alliances running should be the punishment that the team gets for their leaders cheating. Like a football team getting a player sent off it should be upto the rest of the team to try and adapt to the punishment handed down rather than being told "you can still play but can only use one foot" which is kind of what the reset does
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 12:39   #168
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirikk
Are you responsible if someone in your galaxy or alliance cheats?
Without your knowledge - no, i cant see why you would be held directly responsible.
With your knowledge, consent and help - absolutely.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 12:41   #169
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally posted by Mzyxptlk
Quote:
This has all been said before in the thread. While I welcome your contribution, endless repetition is not exactly going to achieve anything.
After re-reading the thread you have somewhat of a point. Not entirely though, cause I feel I did bring some new things into the discussion.

My first question, which only has been touched upon by Ghosteh, which he just did again, was not answered. 'How can a normal member know if someone is cheating?' This wasn't retorical, I really would like to know what ways there are, I'm not trying to prove they weren't responsible aswell. We all have the duty to stop cheating if we can.

Secondly, also touched upon, but never extensively: "Does the scale of the cheating give any legitimacy for suggesting banning every Denial member?" What was done is having ships that don't leave production. This can already be achieved by being superactive and adding ships to the production every tick. They cancelled out this need, which is cheating, for which they were closed or reset. But surely this is only slightly cheating, not like trying to get the passwords of some people! The advantage they got from this has been substracted from them almost a hundred times by getting closed or reset. Surely that is enough punishment and anything more is just plainly disproportional?

I know these questions weren't answered in this thread. If they were in another thread, please give a link. Thanks in advance.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 13:07   #170
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
To a degree yes, you obviously shouldnt get the same punishment as the cheaters but you are part of a team and are an accessory and as such are to a certain degree guilty by association.

Its why this "we only reset them as it would cripple the alliance" is bullshit as it hindering the alliances running should be the punishment that the team gets for their leaders cheating. Like a football team getting a player sent off it should be upto the rest of the team to try and adapt to the punishment handed down rather than being told "you can still play but can only use one foot" which is kind of what the reset does
I'm talking in general. Is it just tough luck if there happens to be a cheater in my alliance or galaxy? Should I be punished if I don't know anything about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Without your knowledge - no, i cant see why you would be held directly responsible.
With your knowledge, consent and help - absolutely.
Exactly!
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 13:11   #171
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
their ethically bankrupt HC
Personally I would have saved such terminology for, I don't know, Robert Mugabe or the like, but hey each to their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I know maybe there isnt many options elsewhere but it does give the view to the outside world that the members are in support of cheating. If it was me I would have seen about bring as much as possible over to a new alliance without these questionable people's involvement
Yes, because shifting infrastructure mid round with 70+ members makes sense. I see the point, but it would be easier to move the few than the many.

Honestly though nothing has strengthened Denial's will to ignore the rest of the universe than people crying like particularly angsty toddlers.

Don't stop now.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 13:16   #172
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosteh
Personally I would have saved such terminology for, I don't know, Robert Mugabe or the like, but hey each to their own.
they were deliberately chosen. High impact, connotations about what else they could do if they didnt see what they did as wrong, etc. Its a sentence designed to make people think.
There are no words which truely capture what Mugabe is doing to a sufficient degree.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 13:35   #173
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirikk
Are you responsible if someone in your galaxy or alliance cheats?
For the love of god, we went over this!

If you have any new arguments to add, please do so, otherwise, don't clog up the forums with same repetitive bullshit. Thanks.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 14:35   #174
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
For the love of god, we went over this!

If you have any new arguments to add, please do so, otherwise, don't clog up the forums with same repetitive bullshit. Thanks.
Soz. I skipped few posts. Anyway I got the impression that Aedolaws didn't get it.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 14:51   #175
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirikk
Soz. I skipped few posts. Anyway I got the impression that Aedolaws didn't get it.
I doubt he gets it though, but there's no point in using the same arguements over and over again just because he won't get it through his thick skull...
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 14:55   #176
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Re: Official Denial Statement

He understands our point perfectly. He just disagrees with it.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 20:03   #177
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Re: Official Denial Statement

How many alliances, from round 1 - 26, have seen a mass exodus of members when players were found to be cheating? Does an army go AWOL or a navy Mutiny because their leader made a bad decision? Ofc not. These leaders have given us a community that we love, new players to meet and get to know, and a place to have fun, while playing a sometimes pathetically political game of planetarion. They were dealt with, they have been punished, and we now regroup and rally behind them, to push onward in our effort for planetarion domination. Don't slight us because we choose loyalty over bowing to peer pressure. These people are our friends, as much as they are our HC's.

P.S. I haven't stopped laughing after reading these 3 topics, such humour!
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 20:07   #178
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Not just loyalty. Blind, unquestioning loyalty to cheaters. Keep up the good work.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 26 Jun 2008, 20:15   #179
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Re: Official Denial Statement

will do sir! As soon as I know of a friend who doesn't back their comrade in arms I'll let you know where the traitor lives

I suppose you've never done a thing wrong in life, right Mz? Shall I start calling you jesus now?
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Unread 28 Jun 2008, 09:52   #180
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
I honestly cant believe how anal some of you are, are you actually being serious? Its an absolute joke, the punishment was handed out, it was sufficient, end of, how the hell has pa changed so much that this thread is 4 ****ign pages long and you are spewing absolute bollocks, jesus ****ing christ.
Wait i just need to make it clear as I didn't really in my other posts: I thought PA team got it right this time.
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Unread 28 Jun 2008, 14:09   #181
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Indeed they did my dear lokken
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Unread 28 Jun 2008, 16:10   #182
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Re: Official Denial Statement

That was getting dreadfully poor. Let's try and keep the terrible insults out of the way of everyone else.

As always if you want to discuss moderation of a thread this does not take place in the thread itself.
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Unread 29 Jun 2008, 02:52   #183
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Re: Official Denial Statement

eh.. got back from bar... someone get's caught from cheating in pa.. learn to cheat etc....
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Unread 2 Jul 2008, 06:14   #184
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Not just loyalty. Blind, unquestioning loyalty to cheaters. Keep up the good work.
Whats ur ally again?
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Unread 4 Jul 2008, 08:59   #185
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]
Whats ur ally again?
mz's alliance is Denial

did you not know?
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Unread 4 Jul 2008, 09:01   #186
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Will you please, for the love of god, stop saying supra after every ****ing thing you say?
And also stop trying to come up with other ways to punish Denial for their cheating. The people that cheated have allready been punished by the MH. It's the MH's job to punish people that cheat or do other stuff that is wrong.

I am very glad that you aren't a multihunter

hi VdM, hows things etc, can i just point out you have gotten awfully cranky in your old age <3

also in my opinion this thread is much more then whats been done is done so to speak, more about, was the mh punishment justifiable or should it have been alot more severe.
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Unread 4 Jul 2008, 18:34   #187
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA
hi VdM, hows things etc, can i just point out you have gotten awfully cranky in your old age <3

also in my opinion this thread is much more then whats been done is done so to speak, more about, was the mh punishment justifiable or should it have been alot more severe.
lo CBA, long time no see . What channels you idle on on irc? never seem to run into you.
I wrote that post while I was at work so that probably explains the crankyness (though that supra thing was goddamn bloody annoying me).

Also in my opinion there shouldn't be threads like this discussing possible punishsments and if the punishment was hard enough etc etc.
We have MH's for a reason and it's their job to punish the people found guilty of cheating not the community's job.
If you (general statement not directed at you personally) want to change the way the MH's punish people or be involved in the punishing process then you can always go apply for a position as MH.
Seeing the lack of some people's common sence in this thread though makes me believe alot would not be accepted as MH.
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Unread 4 Jul 2008, 22:56   #188
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Why must you be deliberately obfuscatory? Are you trying to make people sigh in exasperation and ignore whatever (I'm sure) sensible claim you're presenting before us? Because it's a job well done.

[edit]This was aimed at a post by Aedolaws, which has since been deleted.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 5 Jul 2008 at 08:41.
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Unread 5 Jul 2008, 05:27   #189
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Re: Official Denial Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedolaws
Stuff
Your English is perfectly fine, and yet you make less sense than Yeh
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