Round 36 Stats

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

as long as fi/co are equally shit compared to eachother, they are still equally awesome. FR/DE just isnt an option to fi/co incs with most of the time, so the only way to get people to not pick fi/co for attack is to have fi/co class ship(s) which is good against it.
Atm I dont see that, and since ALL have fi/co pod classes it will also be hard to give 1 race a good anti fi/co ship fi/co class without overpowering it.
Also there are 2 pretty good fi/co ships which are emp, remove that and it is also easier to stop em. Not saying you should, but I think thats the way to go if u dont want a fi/co round. I like fi/co rounds though!

This is the same sort of shit that isil is trying to feed me in #asc right now. Clearly if every fr/de ship had a/c d/cs of 2000 then nobody would consider fi/co the stronger fleet. And how can you say that you need fi/co class ships which are good against fi/co and then say I should remove the beetle/voyager (?) Nonetheless I've strengthened the harpy/vsh/locust/pegasus/spider/recluse/defender and thief just now. I prefer rounds with diversity to be honest.

[isildurx]

:d

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

This is the same sort of shit that isil is trying to feed me in #asc right now. Clearly if every fr/de ship had a/c d/cs of 2000 then nobody would consider fi/co the stronger fleet. And how can you say that you need fi/co class ships which are good against fi/co and then say I should remove the beetle/voyager (?) Nonetheless I've strengthened the harpy/vsh/locust/pegasus/spider/recluse/defender and thief just now. I prefer rounds with diversity to be honest.

Hehe.
I didnt say you should do anything. But alot will go fi/co with the current setup.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Hehe.
I didnt say you should do anything. But alot will go fi/co with the current setup.

I see. And what changes do you think would lead to a more roughly balanced universe?

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I see. And what changes do you think would lead to a more roughly balanced universe?

less fi / co options
like terran without fi pods would sort some of it.

I probably wouldnt go fi/co myself if I was gonna play hardcore value next round though...

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

less fi / co options
like terran without fi pods would sort some of it.

I probably wouldnt go fi/co myself if I was gonna play hardcore value next round though...

Right. I'm not going to do that. Surely given that, as I said above if fi/co has absurdly bad efficiencies nobody would play them, regardless of anything else, there's some other sort of middle ground though?

[Cowch]

Half-baked idea: Create one or two bs/cr ships that target fi/co inefficiently. Slows fi/co down without nerfing it all to hell.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Cowch

Half-baked idea: Create one or two bs/cr ships that target fi/co inefficiently. Slows fi/co down without nerfing it all to hell.

Well, I did create the scorpion. But in general I hate on cr/bs kill ships that target fi/co so much it makes my head hurt.

[isildurx]

1. That is not going to happen as long as JBG makes the stats.
2. That is a good thing, trust me.

FI\CO is not overpowered atm imo!

[Cowch]

Ah, didn't see the scorpion.

I'm not in love with the idea either. But, with a shitty enough D/C and the fact that it would be worthless in ally def, it could work. Huge benefit to fortress gals, but don't tell anyone or else we'll get more crying about that strategy. Scorps are probably a good compromise since the fortress alliances hate hugz.

[Cowch]

Centaur Destroyer Fr - - Norm 6 14 30 22 76 215 175 175 530 389 Etd

typo: 14 guns for a normal ship?

[Zaejii]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Largely the universe divides itself into two groups, follow the herd and do what you always did.

Three groups. You left off the "make the herd miserable" group!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Cowch

Centaur Destroyer Fr - - Norm 6 14 30 22 76 215 175 175 530 389 Etd

typo: 14 guns for a normal ship?

It doesn't actually make a difference. You might as well call them "emp guns".

[BaasB]

So what you guys think is best atm then?
what would you play if the stats stayed like this?

And what government would you pick...
I really think 40% of uni is going for the 40% faster research again...
its just nice to have fast research

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by isildurx

FI\CO is not overpowered atm imo!

There is a difference between overpowered and overrepresentation.
I just think we will see ALOT of fi/co fleets this round

[isildurx]

That's because people are too lazy to look at the stats then.

Baasb: Governments will be changed a bit.

[Cowch]

Originally Posted by isildurx

That's because people are too lazy to look at the stats then.

If I had a dollar for every person who showed up 5 hours before ticks start and asked what race to play...

Personally, my best round was as Terran fortress so I'd like to try that again. I slept that round and still finished t100.

[isildurx]

Originally Posted by BaasB

So what you guys think is best atm then?
what would you play if the stats stayed like this?

In my opinion it's hard to pick a 'best' race atm. I would be more than happy to play either of the three kill races(not gonna play :emp. I'd probably do some form of FI\CO\CR\BS setup whichever race I went though, depending on how the rest of the uni picked their races.

[Monroe]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

It doesn't actually make a difference. You might as well call them "emp guns".

It creates a perception of strength among newbies that is false, otherwise yes you are correct.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Monroe

It creates a perception of strength among newbies that is false, otherwise yes you are correct.

Point taken. I was changing it anyways just for aesthetics


I am also finished so http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.p...n=190851970881 for final stats pending appoco's approval.

[Mzyxptlk]

Me too!

[Wishmaster]

so, with private gals for next round... I spose this kinda affects quite some! ingal fr/de vs fi/co is suddenly a whole lot better...

[HeimdallR]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

so, with private gals for next round... I spose this kinda affects quite some! ingal fr/de vs fi/co is suddenly a whole lot better...

private gals, think im going to cry now :crymeariver:

[Tiamat101]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

so, with private gals for next round... I spose this kinda affects quite some! ingal fr/de vs fi/co is suddenly a whole lot better...

Have you heard from any of the PA team that they are for sure going with private Gals? or is this just one your crazy thoughts?

If its True then yes it certainly adds a fr/de/cr/bs reliable def for ingal.

One way to make fi/co weaker w/o making them weak is to make fr/de good vs them. Since its only gal def to worry about it shouldnt be that contraversial to make fr/de good vs fi/co, with fi/co still being good vs itself.

[Zaejii]

half the private galaxies won't receive real incoming all round anyway depending on how the privacy is actually handled! so it becomes pretty irrelevant relatively fast how good certain classes are versus others defensively!

[Psi_K]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Well, I did create the scorpion. But in general I hate on cr/bs kill ships that target fi/co so much it makes my head hurt.

You could tack it onto the roach as well, would definitely annoy the crap outta fi/co players.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

so, with private gals for next round... I spose this kinda affects quite some! ingal fr/de vs fi/co is suddenly a whole lot better...

Indeed.

[isildurx]

Time to upgrade fi+co again man!

[JonnyBGood]

Depends on the size of the private galaxies!

[Mzyxptlk]

Oh ye, of little faith.

[Light]

I guess a private gal round would also mean that we're all forced to teamup extremly early and only solo on the random galaxys

[isildurx]

Well that is yet to be seen though, noone knows what's going to happen with randoms, or? Are they being put in their own fully random gals?

[BaasB]

Private gals... what a good way to give new people in the game a break and develop themselves... NOT!!!

they will be roided to death all round in their random gal..

[Light]

Originally Posted by isildurx

Well that is yet to be seen though, noone knows what's going to happen with randoms, or? Are they being put in their own fully random gals?

I asked yesturday and they was being put in there own random galaxys with more people. However, as every semi-decent active will be going into a private galaxy, only noobs/new players will be in those galaxys.. meaning anyone above 450 roids will be insta roided down to nothing

[JonnyBGood]

In terms of overall numbers I'd imagine private gals will raise them, at least if they're only in for one round. Not like anyone new gets into pa anyways...

[isildurx]

Alternatively, lower the bashlimit when attacking from private into random gals?

[Patrikc]

Or keep using Buddy Packs as well, 3-5 people, with 7-9 randoms on top of that? (the numbers would depend largely on the amount of private galaxies of course)

And to stay on topic: the Mirage's armor is quite low compared to other Xan De; oversight or intention?

[JonnyBGood]

Intentional. I like making pods suck to be honest. I hate the fact that you can often maxcap off people by suiciding 90% of your fleet so I try to punish that as much as possible.

[Patrikc]

Then why do almost all pods have higher ERes than other ships of their class? Do you like making EMP suck more than making pods suck?

It'd make sense if it was meant to open Cath to Ter De (f.ex), but it's the same for almost all pods. It is not as bad as last round's Peg/Demeter, but still, Cath is already easy to roid. Not that it'll make or break a Cath's round by itself, but every little bit hurts.

On second thought, I'm not going Cath so nevermind!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

Then why do almost all pods have higher ERes than other ships of their class? Do you like making EMP suck more than making pods suck?

It'd make sense if it was meant to open Cath to Ter De (f.ex), but it's the same for almost all pods. It is not as bad as last round's Peg/Demeter, but still, Cath is already easy to roid. Not that it'll make or break a Cath's round by itself, but every little bit hurts.

On second thought, I'm not going Cath so nevermind!

Right. They have higher e/r but they're actually more expensive so their overall emp resistance per cost is the same or worse than the other ships in the fleet. Look at the stats analysis page instead of the e/rs on the main stats page.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Right. They have higher e/r but they're actually more expensive so their overall emp resistance per cost is the same or worse than the other ships in the fleet. Look at the stats analysis page instead of the e/rs on the main stats page.

Cost/ERes doesn't matter when they're in one fleet with the cheaper ships, because EMP guns are distributed amongst numbers, not value.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=5es7uwbeaarkwwu

I remember one round where Zik Bs had around 90 ERes (with matching costs) while the Ter Bs pods had 96 ERes. As soon as you stole some of those pods you could roid pretty much any Cath no matter how much they invested in anti-Bs.

[BaasB]

Maybe just not go for private gals btw? I wouldnt be surprised if allies go all random to try and make the 15 people random gals ultimate private gals...

Anyway, to stay on topic (if governments are stats too), Any ideas about the changes on those yet?

[JonnyBGood]

I recommended a few changes on those to appoco, nerfing back demo's reduced prod cost a bit, socialism staying the same and improving all the others a little in different ways. Dunno exactly what he'll do though.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

Cost/ERes doesn't matter when they're in one fleet with the cheaper ships.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=5es7uwbeaarkwwu

I'm not following. I don't think pods should be emped/die first. I just think they shouldn't be that hard to deal with. After all only 33.5k pegs are frozen by the same number of vipers. Hardly a massive disparity.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I'm not following. I don't think pods should be emped/die first. I just think they shouldn't be that hard to deal with. After all only 33.5k pegs are frozen by the same number of vipers. Hardly a massive disparity.

Yea, like I said (edited after you posted) there've been bigger differences, but every little bit hurts when you only hug ships!

And not to forget (although I'm sure you're aware of it already): good job. Even with the limited variables in shipstats you manage to keep them fresh.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

Yea, like I said (edited after you posted) there've been bigger differences, but every little bit hurts when you only hug ships!

I wouldn't object to minor changes there I guess. PM appoco and let him know!

[Gate]

I'm interested in seeing how they work out!

Even if FI/CO is nowhere near overpowered, if you end up with a loads of them you immediately nerf CR/BS as so many people will have anti CR/BS sitting around waiting for defence.

The results of this round (added to when I tried a 3 pod set) should give us a good idea for future sets.

[Buly]

So any changes coming?

[E-Choke]

I have a little remark about EDT stats.

Drop the pillage . He's useless or make it target 2 classes ? like DE and CO or something like that

[[B5]Londo]

How is the ability to add to the DE fleet by stealing useless?
Killing it would leave a DE shaped hole in the ETD CR's targetting.
certainly dont have a CR stealing CO