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4 May 2014, 17:33
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#251
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old spy
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: norway,oslo
Posts: 122
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Most allies(FL, FAnG, Viks) that ruined this round will suffer for this next round. Either they will disband, or be out of the race for #1
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well from spores point of veiw, i hope they go after ct/vikings/hr next round
and kingmake Ultores, spore has been one of the few allince willing to fight ultores when ever its needed.
;-)
anyway i wont be around for it, but that is what i hope (:
__________________
Aif
[1up]
played Round 1-14
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4 May 2014, 17:40
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#252
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 52
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Most allies(FL, FAnG, Viks) that ruined this round will suffer for this next round. Either they will disband, or be out of the race for #1
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How can you say Faceless ruined the round? We tried warring Spore in the beginning because they had been giving us a huge amount of incs but noone came to our aid. Not much a 44 man tag can do to a 65 tag.
The reason we are FCing viks is not to support Spore, its because they have given us probably 80% of our incs all round. Before they started hitting Spore they we hitting us and when i looked at fleets page each of their members has given us 20 or more incs each. They have been hitting us since pt 24 (look at influence post, he confirms they have hit us hard throughout the round). It just works out in Spores favor.
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4 May 2014, 17:41
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#253
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 318
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
The round is still stagnated in terms of allyranks, but at least now people are able to play for planetranks(even if that too is a battle inbetween 9:8)
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I guess Im still baffled about the conclusion of the stagnation. As one who was a member of Spore last round, and as anyone who was familiar with the round end war last round, within the first few days, Spore last a drastic amount of score/roids and the #2 (which eventually made it to #1) Closed their gap with extreme speed (4mill+ score a day)
Yet, with this war, Spore has done a lot better in standing its ground, and rather then losing ground on its lead, has gained. I personally have seen the sheer amounts of work and dedication from all parts of the alliance to work as a team and make sure we win this time. Thats why I don't see it as stagnation. There is so much being done, from Ult lolwaving us with FI/CO, to Norton Air having his fun, to the lolwaves on shaz, and then from us, the amazing coordination and work of the DC's, the constant def/recall tons of members are doing, almost everyone answering their phones and waking up/coming online instead of ignoring it, only a few people bitching (mostly Merlin)
Thats why I dont see stagnation, in its real definition. If we, Spore, were playing a lesser game, I think you would see our lead dwindle, and Viks have a real shot at taking #1. I dont think the claim of stagnation should really be made, when the only reason #1 isn't becoming #2, is because they are playing well/smart.
P.S. As a side note, I think the ally ranks will change drastically towards the end, if Viks, Ult, and CT keep playing the way they are, and I think it will be CT or Ult or Both that pass Viks, but still a week left, so who knows
__________________
*KoN* ~~ *NoS* ~~ *Fang* ~~ *Angels* ~~ *Urwins* ~~ *TheFallen* ~~ *Spore* ~~ *Ult Def Planet* ~~
Saver of Sad
Supreme Commander of The Spider Colony
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4 May 2014, 18:35
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#254
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Retard0r
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,164
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Re: R56 development thread.
I guess you and me have a different view on what stagnation is. For the record, i have never said that Spore would have to lose their #1 rank for it not to be stagnation. The fact that Spore had a 50% valuelead and a healthy roidlead by PT 250 and werent hit till after noone could catch them(600 ticks later) is what makes this round stagnated in my mind. It does in no way take anything away from the dedication Spore put into this round, rather the opposite. The fact that multiple alliances were needed to land Spore is admirable, the fact that noone managed to organize that earlier is not admirable.
__________________
-Chimpie
* We do not exist *
* G-II * NoS * VsN * Ascendancy * Osiris * xVx * Ultores *
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4 May 2014, 21:36
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#255
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 318
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
I guess you and me have a different view on what stagnation is. For the record, i have never said that Spore would have to lose their #1 rank for it not to be stagnation. The fact that Spore had a 50% valuelead and a healthy roidlead by PT 250 and werent hit till after noone could catch them(600 ticks later) is what makes this round stagnated in my mind. It does in no way take anything away from the dedication Spore put into this round, rather the opposite. The fact that multiple alliances were needed to land Spore is admirable, the fact that noone managed to organize that earlier is not admirable.
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and I guess that's where I return to my previous statement regarding how jaded the PA community must be, to think it is required that more then half the game be spent trying to gank the #1 with half the Uni. Spore was challenged solo a few times early on, actually had heavy incs within the first week, but as you said, by tick 200 or so, we were well on our way. Would it have been any less stagnate, in your opinion, if those who tried to solo us, kept doing so, giving us even better targets to hit, then the gal raids we kept doing to keep happy politics? It likely would have led to Spore gaining even more of a roid/value lead, requiring even more to gank us.
To me, it seems like many now days describe stagnation, as simply ranks not moving around a lot. If thats the case, then we might as well get rid of ranks. #1 wasn't meant for everyone, and #10 wasn't meant for everyone. If the only way a round is not stagnate is for 2 or 10 alliances to swap #1 around between them, then what really is the point of being #1 if everyone gets a go? Its like scoring with the hot chick at prom, only to find out everyone else gets a go as well. Not really an accomplishment anymore
__________________
*KoN* ~~ *NoS* ~~ *Fang* ~~ *Angels* ~~ *Urwins* ~~ *TheFallen* ~~ *Spore* ~~ *Ult Def Planet* ~~
Saver of Sad
Supreme Commander of The Spider Colony
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4 May 2014, 22:08
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#256
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 77
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Re: R56 development thread.
Boredom ?
It was what the members wanted at the time.. Hitting fang/faceless was boring since it was a walkover..
Even tho we attracted alot of incs by doing so.. this is more fun than just idling out the round to a clear #2nd
And i think Spore was starting to command not ask their allies what they wanted done. Being told what to do is not the viking way
__________________
Skydivenaked
Recent rounds:
Round 68 - #1 Gal Rank #6 planet
Round 67 - #1 Gal
Round 65 - Rank #3 Norsemen
Round 61 - Rank #37 Faceless
Round 60 - Rank #14 Ultores
Round 58 - Rank #35 Allieless xp play
Round 56 - Rank #14 Vikings
Round 54 - Rank #5 Vikings
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4 May 2014, 22:26
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#257
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 52
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Re: R56 development thread.
You were being commanded all round, you just didnt realize it until it was too late :-P
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4 May 2014, 22:33
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#258
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyNilly
You were being commanded all round, you just didnt realize it until it was too late :-P
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I would say that Spore held us to the technicalities of the agreement that we had in place. Vikings of course likes to think that we can abide to such agreements, so we did what Spore asked of us.
I think our flaw this round was agreeing to a full alliance pre-round. As the saying goes, you learn from your mistakes.
Last edited by Clouds; 4 May 2014 at 23:03.
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4 May 2014, 23:02
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#259
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
I would say that Spore held us to the technicalities of the agreement that we had in place. Vikings of course likes to think that we can abide to such agreements, so we did what Spore asked of us.
I think our flaw this round was agreeing to a full alliance pre-round. As the saying does, you learn from your mistakes.
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Spore never commanded Vikings and you of all people should know that Clouds.
There are technical agreements and then the consideration of "in spirit" of agreements. At this stage, I won't go into this.
I disagree that was your flaw. I think both of us made mistakes this round but I don't think this was a main mistake for you. Rather than continuing on here though, you have my personal number.
__________________
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That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.
Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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5 May 2014, 01:05
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#260
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: R56 development thread.
If a bunch of alliances hit a top alliance to no effect instead of fighting for a rank they can achieve is that stagnation?
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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5 May 2014, 06:50
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#261
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recluse
To me, it seems like many now days describe stagnation, as simply ranks not moving around a lot. If thats the case, then we might as well get rid of ranks.
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If neither of the top two alliances has a single day of roids lost for several weeks, how is that not a stagnant universe?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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5 May 2014, 08:50
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#262
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Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
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Re: R56 development thread.
I heard that blocks to make the next round of naptarion interesting are being put in place as we speak.
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
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5 May 2014, 10:06
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#263
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterrrr
I heard that blocks to make the next round of naptarion interesting are being put in place as we speak.
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Lol, yeah its sounding realy good. Full NAPs for everyone from tickstart!!! Go Vikings!!
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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5 May 2014, 15:07
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#264
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterrrr
I heard that blocks to make the next round of naptarion interesting are being put in place as we speak.
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Oh?
__________________
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That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.
Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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5 May 2014, 16:53
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#265
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: R56 development thread.
<Hunter> yoyo gm|away want to nap next round
<Hunter> till tick 800?
indeed!!!
we dont preround nap btw. :P
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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5 May 2014, 17:07
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#266
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Lol, yeah its sounding realy good. Full NAPs for everyone from tickstart!!! Go Vikings!!
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Thanks Bitcher!
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5 May 2014, 19:43
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#267
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Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
<Hunter> yoyo gm|away want to nap next round
<Hunter> till tick 800?
indeed!!!
we dont preround nap btw. :P
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Yah we are going for 2nd place. Will also nap whoever will be first.
Pm me on irc for pre round naps i want them all to be sorted at least a week before round start.
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
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6 May 2014, 08:48
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#268
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowSeal
Please read DrunkeVikings post again.
It wasn't me who said that. Spore received an average about 350 fleets incoming the past days. Feel free to add the amount of Vikings incomings towards this discussion, im actually intrested.
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Not that I know how many incs you guys are actually getting now... but last round when I was with you guys it wasn't uncommon for spore members to massively exaggerate the amount of incs we had, suppose that's why people aren't buying your numbers now
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6 May 2014, 12:19
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#269
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old spy
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: norway,oslo
Posts: 122
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksero
Not that I know how many incs you guys are actually getting now... but last round when I was with you guys it wasn't uncommon for spore members to massively exaggerate the amount of incs we had, suppose that's why people aren't buying your numbers now
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FYI: shaz had 221 fleets inc over 3 waves eta 7-8-9 (first tick) other then that we had around 60 fleets inc over rest of spore, and iam quessing we got 50-60 more over the next few ticks.
not that it mater that much, but members allways like to say XXX fleets.
iam going to be very supprised if not spore wins the total incomeing by a good nr. this round.
__________________
Aif
[1up]
played Round 1-14
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6 May 2014, 12:37
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#270
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Holland
Posts: 22
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
I think our flaw this round was agreeing to a full alliance pre-round. As the saying goes, you learn from your mistakes.
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Biggest flaw was your race strategy. I remember explaining you rather vividly why we went for FI/CO/FR while trying to persuade you to do the same, assuming we would be best buddies till eor.
How are those 200k CO def fleets working out?
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6 May 2014, 14:00
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#271
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowSeal
Biggest flaw was your race strategy. I remember explaining you rather vividly why we went for FI/CO/FR while trying to persuade you to do the same, assuming we would be best buddies till eor.
How are those 200k CO def fleets working out?
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Could you explain a bit further? Imo the only disadvantages of going BS/CR for offense and CO/FR for defense in comparison with the CO/FR strat are:
- when fully grounding under gang rapes with huge team-ups it would be better to concentrate defense ships in two classes only. Despite the Heroes lol waves and Spore block FCs, Vikings stayed away from those situations.
- the difficulty of pling BS/CR fleets efficiently;
- BS/CR fleets being more susceptible to FCs.
But most of the round Vikings kept attacking with at least one fleet. All incs while fighting Faceless and Fang with some Heroes at the same time waves were manageable. Ingal cross def with Cat/Ter/Zik/Etd DE/CR/BS was a big advantage in comparison with the CO/FR strat. On offense BS fleets had less trouble to land than CR fleets but the overall was ok.
Spore main advantage on strat choice imo was not due its choice but due to being able keep fighting an alliance weak against it the whole round. Now in a different situation spore is leaking roids like a sinking boat.
__________________
mxy
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6 May 2014, 14:06
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#272
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Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aif
FYI: shaz had 221 fleets inc over 3 waves eta 7-8-9 (first tick) other then that we had around 60 fleets inc over rest of spore, and iam quessing we got 50-60 more over the next few ticks.
not that it mater that much, but members allways like to say XXX fleets.
iam going to be very supprised if not spore wins the total incomeing by a good nr. this round.
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Probably spore will have the most inc in this round, but that doesnt really matter most of the round they werent hit at all and once they were their value lead was substantial.
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
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6 May 2014, 14:22
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#273
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: R56 development thread.
Spore pick fights they can win, work out who shares their interests, prepare for heavy incoming and play accordingly. They've improved as an alliance and reduced crashes substantially which is the difference between this round and last. Spore are leaking roids under heavy inc but it doesn't matter because they have a 45m lead, mainly because they kept their fleets. Roiding doesn't do jack in the grand scheme of things. The war started with vikings needing to catch 2m or so a day to win. Yesterday, it hit over 10m.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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6 May 2014, 14:26
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#274
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R56 development thread.
If only Vikings didn't use SKs on random raids they would have had a few more pals.
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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6 May 2014, 14:33
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#275
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
If only Vikings didn't use SKs on random raids they would have had a few more pals.
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How so?
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6 May 2014, 14:39
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#276
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R56 development thread.
There is quite a bit of e-hate for vikings in fang due to the use of their SKs
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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6 May 2014, 14:53
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#277
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Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
There is quite a bit of e-hate for vikings in fang due to the use of their SKs
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fang is a bunch of wankers that tried to fence it and failed as is the rest that the reason why this round was so great most of the allies just waited and counted on someone else to do their dirty job.
__________________
If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
BANANA ALLIANCE!!
Last edited by Hunterrrr; 6 May 2014 at 14:59.
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6 May 2014, 14:55
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#278
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran
Spore main advantage on strat choice imo was not due its choice but due to being able keep fighting an alliance weak against it the whole round. Now in a different situation spore is leaking roids like a sinking boat.
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I cannot comment on the earlier piece as I am not involved in race strategy. However I feel this comment is rather wrong. Spore has fought several alliances in this round not just Ultores. We are hardly a sinking boat, that analogy would fit for last round as we lost our lead over the initial three days before dropping completely (which didn't happen here) but for this round I feel that description is unfair.
We're leaking roids not due to our strat but due to the #2,#3,#4,#5 and #11 alliance all hitting us.
__________________
----------
That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.
Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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6 May 2014, 14:56
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#279
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
There is quite a bit of e-hate for vikings in fang due to the use of their SKs
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If it hadnt been for shockingly bad "politics" from those who ran FAnG in the start im sure Vikings wouldnt have hit viks.
I actualy think CR/BS was the most logical choice for most allies. I wanted to go for that myself and my allie.
Spores strat would only work if they had no CR/BS incs before they could build value
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 May 2014, 14:58
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#280
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
There is quite a bit of e-hate for vikings in fang due to the use of their SKs
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There's probably quite a bit of e-hate for spore in the alliances hitting them now, due to their use of pods. Next round they shouldn't be using those
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6 May 2014, 14:58
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#281
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
I cannot comment on the earlier piece as I am not involved in race strategy. However I feel this comment is rather wrong. Spore has fought several alliances in this round not just Ultores. We are hardly a sinking boat, that analogy would fit for last round as we lost our lead over the initial three days before dropping completely (which didn't happen here) but for this round I feel that description is unfair.
We're leaking roids not due to our strat but due to the #2,#3,#4,#5 and #11 alliance all hitting us.
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Mxy is right in some ways.
Ult was the best enemy u could get early due to their strat, wich meant you could cover a lot of incs with few fleets.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 May 2014, 15:11
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#282
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
We're leaking roids not due to our strat but due to the #2,#3,#4,#5 and #11 alliance all hitting us.
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What I meant is that under a gang rape your strat didnt help you the same way Vikings's strat didnt help it under same situation. So Spore CO/FR strat was not superior as Snowseal stated.
__________________
mxy
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6 May 2014, 15:16
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#283
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran
Could you explain a bit further? Imo the only disadvantages of going BS/CR for offense and CO/FR for defense in comparison with the CO/FR strat are:
- when fully grounding under gang rapes with huge team-ups it would be better to concentrate defense ships in two classes only. Despite the Heroes lol waves and Spore block FCs, Vikings stayed away from those situations.
- the difficulty of pling BS/CR fleets efficiently;
- BS/CR fleets being more susceptible to FCs.
But most of the round Vikings kept attacking with at least one fleet. All incs while fighting Faceless and Fang with some Heroes at the same time waves were manageable. Ingal cross def with Cat/Ter/Zik/Etd DE/CR/BS was a big advantage in comparison with the CO/FR strat. On offense BS fleets had less trouble to land than CR fleets but the overall was ok.
Spore main advantage on strat choice imo was not due its choice but due to being able keep fighting an alliance weak against it the whole round. Now in a different situation spore is leaking roids like a sinking boat.
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The flaw of our strat wasn't so much in using CR/BS to attack, but it was in using both CO and DE fleets to defend. This helped us keeping our attacks going even while having relatively heavy FR incs early on, but made us suffer as soon as we had to prepare for big FI/CO incs. Ideally you want your defence ships to be in a single (meta) class. CR/BS is probably the best suitable strategy for Vikings in any round, as we are historically good fakers, both in def and attack. Another flaw was the lack of cloaked ships, and too much EMP ships.
Spore managed their incs really well in the early stages of the round, by controlling who hit them very nicely. This allowed them to build very well concentrated fleets which made it impossible for the few enemies they had to properly defend against them.
__________________
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6 May 2014, 15:21
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#284
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksero
There's probably quite a bit of e-hate for spore in the alliances hitting them now, due to their use of pods. Next round they shouldn't be using those
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Roids can be replaced / recouped ... structures lost in battle reports can't be recouped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
If it hadnt been for shockingly bad "politics" from those who ran FAnG in the start im sure Vikings wouldnt have hit viks.
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I to did question some of the political moves made by fang this round and there has been several changes in fang's political HCs
However the last week political Maneuvers has been brilliant
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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6 May 2014, 15:25
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#285
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
The flaw of our strat wasn't so much in using CR/BS to attack, but it was in using both CO and DE fleets to defend. This helped us keeping our attacks going even while having relatively heavy FR incs early on, but made us suffer as soon as we had to prepare for big FI/CO incs. Ideally you want your defence ships to be in a single (meta) class. CR/BS is probably the best suitable strategy for Vikings in any round, as we are historically good fakers, both in def and attack. Another flaw was the lack of cloaked ships, and too much EMP ships.
Spore managed their incs really well in the early stages of the round, by controlling who hit them very nicely. This allowed them to build very well concentrated fleets which made it impossible for the few enemies they had to properly defend against them.
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Having, afaik, all anti CR/BS in "one" class, FR/DE, made Spore extremly vurneable to incs early on.
ND/CT/Vik ran over FAnG with this strat.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 May 2014, 15:28
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#286
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
There is quite a bit of e-hate for vikings in fang due to the use of their SKs
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And had FAnG been less hostile to Vikings without being provoked i am sure Vikings would not have used the SK's vs FAnG in the way that we did. Actions have consequences, warring Vikings in the way FAnG did opened you up to being SK'd. If Vikings hadn't SK'd FAnG I'm 100% certain FAnG would have been a bigger problem for Vikings prior to our agreement with FAnG. As far as the late round goes FAnG really aren't a problem for us either. The problem is much more internal with a lack of activity and some questionable political choices throughout the round.
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6 May 2014, 15:40
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#287
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Having, afaik, all anti CR/BS in "one" class, FR/DE, made Spore extremly vurneable to incs early on.
ND/CT/Vik ran over FAnG with this strat.
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What made Spore vulnerable to CR/BS incs early on was a complete lack of anti CR/BS at the time. They perfectly countered that with an agreement with CT and the prior agreement with Vikings, which allowed them to focus fully on anti FI/CO to target Ultores.
If Spore and Vikings would not have had an agreement i am sure there would have been a fair bit of hostility between us especially in the first week. Spore were some FAT buggers with an extremely low number of anti CR/BS at the time. When Vikings joined in hitting Spore, Spore had already started sinking a fair bit of value in anti CR/BS due to CT hitting them. From Spores own accounts the biggest issue they had was when HR and CT were hitting them together.
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6 May 2014, 15:45
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#288
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran
What I meant is that under a gang rape your strat didnt help you the same way Vikings's strat didnt help it under same situation. So Spore CO/FR strat was not superior as Snowseal stated.
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Vikings have nowhere near been gang raped to the extent Spore has, so a comparison on that ground is invalid IMO.
Regards,
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That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.
Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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6 May 2014, 15:54
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#289
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
And had FAnG been less hostile to Vikings without being provoked i am sure Vikings would not have used the SK's vs FAnG in the way that we did. Actions have consequences, warring Vikings in the way FAnG did opened you up to being SK'd. If Vikings hadn't SK'd FAnG I'm 100% certain FAnG would have been a bigger problem for Vikings prior to our agreement with FAnG. As far as the late round goes FAnG really aren't a problem for us either. The problem is much more internal with a lack of activity and some questionable political choices throughout the round.
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If I had made the political calls for fang I would have been more pro vikings but Tyjo and Blackmagic decided otherwise.
As the round stands we at fang are quite happy to roid the mid tier members of vikings for the rest of the round.
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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6 May 2014, 15:55
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#290
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Spore pick fights they can win, work out who shares their interests, prepare for heavy incoming and play accordingly. They've improved as an alliance and reduced crashes substantially which is the difference between this round and last. Spore are leaking roids under heavy inc but it doesn't matter because they have a 45m lead, mainly because they kept their fleets. Roiding doesn't do jack in the grand scheme of things. The war started with vikings needing to catch 2m or so a day to win. Yesterday, it hit over 10m.
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Actually, it was a 45m gap to bridge in 12 days, so a little under 4m a day. I wouldn't exactly say they are masters of keeping their fleet still, but they have definitely improved on that yeah.
The main difference between this round and last is the fact that they had a major roidlead for nearly 6 weeks. Last round Faceless were the ones with the roidlead on them for the last 3 weeks. And while Spore encountered heavy incs in the last 2 weeks, Faceless was relatively free of incs.
All in all, this round and last are basicly incomparable.
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6 May 2014, 16:13
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#291
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
If I had made the political calls for fang I would have been more pro vikings but Tyjo and Blackmagic decided otherwise.
As the round stands we at fang are quite happy to roid the mid tier members of vikings for the rest of the round.
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And i can absolutely see why you are, taking free roids with a minimal chance of retalliation is always a crowd pleaser. Doing so from an ally you have been warring for the majority of the round gets you even more bonuspoints. Let's not pretend what FAnG did was a genious political move that has had a major impact on the round tho. Even without FAnG/Faceless/Insomnia hitting Vikings Spore would most likely still have won, as simply Vikings never had the motivation, nor activity, left to put up a proper fight for #1. Besides Spore fully deserved the win this round, as like i said before they clearly played the best politics and likely have the best and most motivated group together.
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6 May 2014, 16:22
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#292
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
And i can absolutely see why you are, taking free roids with a minimal chance of retalliation is always a crowd pleaser. Doing so from an ally you have been warring for the majority of the round gets you even more bonuspoints. Let's not pretend what FAnG did was a genious political move that has had a major impact on the round tho. Even without FAnG/Faceless/Insomnia hitting Vikings Spore would most likely still have won, as simply Vikings never had the motivation, nor activity, left to put up a proper fight for #1. Besides Spore fully deserved the win this round, as like i said before they clearly played the best politics and likely have the best and most motivated group together.
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If you cant beat them, join them?
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 May 2014, 16:46
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#293
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Idle Git
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wandering
Posts: 1,550
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran
Spore main advantage on strat choice imo was not due its choice but due to being able keep fighting an alliance weak against it the whole round. Now in a different situation spore is leaking roids like a sinking boat.
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We are losing roids continuously because we are getting so much incoming. If we open our alliance defence page at any time of the day, the chances are there are at least 100 fleets incoming on us from at least 5 different alliances. I don't care how good an alliance is or what its strategy is, EVERY alliance would be losing roids rapidly at that point. With 65 members, we have exactly 195 fleet slots available, so no matter what we try and do or how good we are, we are never going to be able to cover 300+ incs at once and no other alliance in the history of the game could have in the same circumstance either.
Our main advantage on strat choice was that we got the best one, as we have for the last few rounds. I don't know how he does it, but SnowSeal pulls a blinder every round and spots the things everyone else misses; he hasn't got it wrong yet.
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Here we go again....
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6 May 2014, 16:56
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#294
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
We are losing roids continuously because we are getting so much incoming. If we open our alliance defence page at any time of the day, the chances are there are at least 100 fleets incoming on us from at least 5 different alliances. I don't care how good an alliance is or what its strategy is, EVERY alliance would be losing roids rapidly at that point. With 65 members, we have exactly 195 fleet slots available, so no matter what we try and do or how good we are, we are never going to be able to cover 300+ incs at once and no other alliance in the history of the game could have in the same circumstance either.
Our main advantage on strat choice was that we got the best one, as we have for the last few rounds. I don't know how he does it, but SnowSeal pulls a blinder every round and spots the things everyone else misses; he hasn't got it wrong yet.
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What he means is that your strat choice wasn't necessarily better than vikings, but due to you being nap'd/allied to the alliances not going fi/co, you could focus everything on anti fi/co, meaning you could easily hold your ground vs the alliances going for that setup
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6 May 2014, 17:09
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#295
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
Our main advantage on strat choice was that we got the best one, as we have for the last few rounds. I don't know how he does it, but SnowSeal pulls a blinder every round and spots the things everyone else misses; he hasn't got it wrong yet.
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I think it was quite obvious when the strat was being discussed that the stats were awful.
What ever you would go for(FI/CO OR FR/DE) your allie could be raped by an smaller hostile alliance more or less.
Capital hulls were never an option for Spore.
If CT/Viks would have gone for Spore instead of FAnG the roidloss wouldve been very high.
How ever Spore did what they had to, kept away from viks/ct
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RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 May 2014, 17:36
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#296
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
Actually, it was a 45m gap to bridge in 12 days, so a little under 4m a day. I wouldn't exactly say they are masters of keeping their fleet still, but they have definitely improved on that yeah.
The main difference between this round and last is the fact that they had a major roidlead for nearly 6 weeks. Last round Faceless were the ones with the roidlead on them for the last 3 weeks. And while Spore encountered heavy incs in the last 2 weeks, Faceless was relatively free of incs.
All in all, this round and last are basicly incomparable.
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The politics are incredibly similar. Ultores out of the running early, but because Spore do it under their own steam, they've been able to grow a lot easier because they don't need to wait, nor do they fail when support wanes. Faceless was an alliance doing not very much and Ultores chose them to win. This round it was Vikings (also relatively free of incs), but they weren't really going after spore as if they were they'd have done it sooner.
The gap I've got looking at kia is about 25m to 30m, so 2.5 at most. The point is that it was entirely bridgeable, but went the other way instead, in quite a brutal way. Recent days has seen Spore discipline slip, but it's far better than vikings who have crashed/lost 20m in fleet.
Overall, this round's outcome is what should have happened last round. Anyone rejoicing about roid caps on spore is a bit silly: provided they keep their fleets, they should not give a shit, as those roids will not pay much when time is running down. Improved performance from Spore has made the difference.
Anyone want to analyse ultores?
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6 May 2014, 17:47
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#297
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R56 development thread.
Ultores shouldve gone for the other choice they had planned.
I guess they thought that the round would last longer than 200 ticks, and they prolly wanted the faster ships.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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6 May 2014, 17:52
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#298
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksero
There's probably quite a bit of e-hate for spore in the alliances hitting them now, due to their use of pods. Next round they shouldn't be using those
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lol
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6 May 2014, 18:11
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#299
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The politics are incredibly similar. Ultores out of the running early, but because Spore do it under their own steam, they've been able to grow a lot easier because they don't need to wait, nor do they fail when support wanes. Faceless was an alliance doing not very much and Ultores chose them to win. This round it was Vikings (also relatively free of incs), but they weren't really going after spore as if they were they'd have done it sooner.
The gap I've got looking at kia is about 25m to 30m, so 2.5 at most. The point is that it was entirely bridgeable, but went the other way instead, in quite a brutal way. Recent days has seen Spore discipline slip, but it's far better than vikings who have crashed/lost 20m in fleet.
Overall, this round's outcome is what should have happened last round. Anyone rejoicing about roid caps on spore is a bit silly: provided they keep their fleets, they should not give a shit, as those roids will not pay much when time is running down. Improved performance from Spore has made the difference.
Anyone want to analyse ultores?
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Ahh, you are purely looking at kia. Then your analyses would be right yeah. Unfortunately, as always, KIA doesn't tell you the full truth. When Spore first lost roids it was at the hands of Ult/CT/HR/App/Immortals. Vikings were allied with Spore at the time so that wasn't the start of the war for us. Vikings ended their agreement with spore on the 27th of april. With a 48h notice that left 10 days. The gap was 276m-242m=34m so 3.4m a day with Vikings 15k behind on roids at the time. (granted i thought we started earlier and the gap was bigger, must have been looking at other stats or something). As for incstats... i guess we'll have to wait a few more days, but from what Spore told us Vikings had more incs in the early and mid round. Little doubt Spore has done better on the 'keeping' fleet part of things. Main difference being in the fact that Spore has not been FC'd a whole lot where Vikings loses anywhere between 2-5 attackfleets a day on FC's alone.
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6 May 2014, 18:32
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#300
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,143
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Re: R56 development thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Anyone want to analyse ultores?
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Is there any point tbh? We are far from as good as we once were, and we know it
I think we have something like 20 players left playing for us that also played for us during our best round
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