Planetarion Forums

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 20:00

which one do i want and why?

Pyr0 MK III · 17 Jul 2004, 20:02

Firefox because of its awesome extensions (open source)

Or Opera is probably the next best thing (altho its not free)

Dante Hicks · 17 Jul 2004, 20:03

I'll be amazed if I post this before Leshy has posted an essay, but you want either Opera or Firefox.

Opera is my personal favourite. See ; http://www.tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/

For a brief explanation, although there are others. Leshy has some points on his website too (see his sig).

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 20:04

are there any other options, just for curiosity's sake?

MrL_JaKiri · 17 Jul 2004, 20:04

Not really.

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 20:06

ok, i'll sort it out tommorow then

, glad to be shedding IE at long last tho tbh.

Vaio · 17 Jul 2004, 20:06

I use Avant Browser (cant remember the URL)

Its pretty good, it's small and it's pretteh

~Vaio~

Flayer · 17 Jul 2004, 20:13

I advise opera + crack to get rid of banner
it grows on you like a brain slug!

Nodrog · 17 Jul 2004, 21:01

I used firefox for the last 2 weeks, and I wouldnt advise anyone to bother with it (on windows at least) - the list of minor annoyances is huge, and even these are outweighed by the fact that it crashed every 2 hours or so and provided no way to restore tabs from the point it went down.

Opera is by far the superior browser, and I've went back to it.

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 21:10

java or non java opera??

Flayer · 17 Jul 2004, 21:13

You probably already have it, but it can't harm to pick the java version...

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 21:15

cheers.

MrL_JaKiri · 17 Jul 2004, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by vampire_lestat

java or non java opera??

The only difference is one comes with Java, the other doesn't. They're the same program. It's like asking, if the only thing you're interested in is the big mac, if you should get it as part of a meal or on its own.

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 21:19

i'm hungry, so i'll go with it as part of the meal

.

Flayer · 17 Jul 2004, 21:26

don't forget to remove the gay standard skin and change the user interface to your liking before giving up and uninstalling

Weeks · 17 Jul 2004, 21:35

All this thread needs now is a leshy rant.

vampire_lestat · 17 Jul 2004, 21:36

am now using it and will do all the customising tommorow, better than IE anyway tho.

Deathjam|wee · 17 Jul 2004, 22:18

comedy option

Dace · 17 Jul 2004, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Opera is by far the superior browser, and I've went back to it.

Your use of English is poor.

Weeks · 17 Jul 2004, 23:11

ive tried both (opera and firefox). just tried opera recently.
i prefer firefox.
try both.
it's just a matter of preference.

i dont like the banner in opera.

Tomkat · 17 Jul 2004, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Opera is by far the superior browser, and I've went back to it.

Your reason for a dislike of Firefox is the same as my reasons for not using Opera.

I used Firefox at first. Got used to it. Downloaded Opera, didn't like the way it was, as I was used to Firefox.

It's all preference. You can't say one is better than the other, because in terms of security they're both better than IE. It's all about what you want from the browser, simplicity with the option of versatility in the form of extensions (Mozilla), or everything in one package, there for you to organise at your leisure (Opera).

jerome · 18 Jul 2004, 00:23

I`ve started using Opera tonight & will be using it from now onwards as it`s well suited for what I need/want.

Dark-Strider · 18 Jul 2004, 00:30

I started using Firefox tonight and so far im impressed with it.

Especially being able to highlight words, rightclick the mouse and be able to find a defonition.

Also no gay banners.

Zar · 18 Jul 2004, 00:31

an opera convert

+1 to our little army

Nodrog · 18 Jul 2004, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

You can't say one is better than the other, because in terms of security they're both better than IE. It's all about what you want from the browser, simplicity with the option of versatility in the form of extensions (Mozilla), or everything in one package, there for you to organise at your leisure (Opera).

I can say that firefox is shit because it crashes every couple of hours however.

Weeks · 18 Jul 2004, 00:40

Well maybe it's you nodrog.
just a thought.

Leshy · 18 Jul 2004, 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Leshy has some points on his website too (see his sig).

Mainly posting to flaunt my sig as requested

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

I use Avant Browser (cant remember the URL)

Its pretty good, it's small and it's pretteh

AvantBrowser is a shell for MSIE. As such, it's still not in any way a good browser. If you are going to install a shell to get extra IE functionality, Google Toolbar to block popups and be able to do Google Searches, and a bunch of patches every other week to keep it secure, you might as well switch to Firefox or Opera right away and save yourself a lot of hassle.

Both Opera and Firefox are very secure browsers, and offer excellent page rendering and speed. Firefox has the advantage that it has a very simple and basic layout, which makes converting to it from MSIE easy and pleasant. Opera's interface is a lot more chaotic and likely to scare you off at first sight.

You'll start noticing the main difference later. Once you want to start using extra features to make browsing more convenient, you'll find that Firefox offers virtually no options by default. So you'll have to go hunt down a bunch of plugins, find which is the right one as there's often more for the same task (Tabbed Browser Extension, Tab Browser Preferences, Single Window), install and configure them, restarting your browser in between. After a lot of work, you will be able to say you've customized Firefox to your needs.

Opera is an entirely different story - virtually all the goodies are already integrated into the program. You can access them after installation right away. The only thing you'll want to do is customize the interface, which generally takes less than five minutes, and which you only have to do once. Extensions, such as the Web Developer Toolbar, or custom buttons can be installed with a single mouse-click and don't require a browser restart. And when you find out what Opera has to offer, you'll notice that it's package manages to be just a bit more complete than Firefoxes extensions - not strange, considering many of Firefoxes plugins were created to get Opera-like functionality.

Many people prefer Firefox because it's free and because of open-source idealism. I prefer Opera because it offers much more functionality, and much easier access to those features. Coupled with the fact that it's smaller in file size and offers more screen space than Firefox, it's a definite winner for me.

Phang · 18 Jul 2004, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I can say that firefox is shit because it crashes every couple of hours however.

welcome to uniquecomplaintville, population: you

Sandsnake · 18 Jul 2004, 04:01

you could always use lynx.

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

Mainly posting to flaunt my sig as requested

AvantBrowser is a shell for MSIE. As such, it's still not in any way a good browser. If you are going to install a shell to get extra IE functionality, Google Toolbar to block popups and be able to do Google Searches, and a bunch of patches every other week to keep it secure, you might as well switch to Firefox or Opera right away and save yourself a lot of hassle..

As I am using Windows anyway I install and download security updates anyway. I've tried Opera and Firefox and I am sticking with Avant. It does all I need it to do, I am not insecure enough to assume a browser will give me extra sex appeal or make my life any more interesting

~Vaio~

Flayer · 18 Jul 2004, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

As I am using Windows anyway I install and download security updates anyway. I've tried Opera and Firefox and I am sticking with Avant. It does all I need it to do, I am not insecure enough to assume a browser will give me extra sex appeal or make my life any more interesting

~Vaio~

No but you could be a little idealistic and think about the poor web designers who have to go through a LOT of shit to get their pages to work in IE too, a browser that is 3 years old (a lifetime in internet development, so it doesn't support standards any more).

Curufinwe · 18 Jul 2004, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I can say that firefox is shit because it crashes every couple of hours however.

I have used firefox quite extensively and it has yet to crash on me. It has been the most stable browser for me so far.

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flayer

No but you could be a little idealistic and think about the poor web designers who have to go through a LOT of shit to get their pages to work in IE too, a browser that is 3 years old (a lifetime in internet development, so it doesn't support standards any more).

If I cared, I would but I don't. I have more important things to worry about.

~Vaio~

Flayer · 18 Jul 2004, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

If I cared, I would but I don't. I have more important things to worry about.

~Vaio~

that's why I mentioned idealism
you're just being ignorant

JC · 18 Jul 2004, 11:50

I prefer Firefox and it has never ever crashed on me.

skiddy · 18 Jul 2004, 11:57

I like Opera, and at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference, which is why these debates* are so pathetic.

*Leshy

Dante Hicks · 18 Jul 2004, 11:59

Leshy rocks

skiddy · 18 Jul 2004, 12:03

I know.

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flayer

that's why I mentioned idealism
you're just being ignorant

Really ? How ?

Avant does what I need it to for a browser. Opera I wont pay for and it doesn't do anything more than Avant does for free. Firefox is ok but unreliable.

I believe you are being ignorant

~Vaio~

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 12:13

Idealism over a web browser ?

F'ks sake........

~Vaio~

Dante Hicks · 18 Jul 2004, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

Opera I wont pay for and it doesn't do anything more than Avant does for free.

I (at present) wouldn't pay for Opera either. So I don't.

And Opera can do more than Avant, albeit features you personally might not find terribly useful.

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 12:18

That's the thing some of these 'zealots' are forgetting in their 'crusade'.

I use Open Office as it does everything I need it to, MS Office does more, but it does more stuff I will never find a use for.

~Vaio~

Dante Hicks · 18 Jul 2004, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

That's the thing some of these 'zealots' are forgetting in their 'crusade'.

I agree, although if you are a moderate to heavy user of the web it might be difficult for them to imagine you wouldn't find some features useful.

But I know what you mean, 90% of the features in MS Office I never use.

MrL_JaKiri · 18 Jul 2004, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

welcome to uniquecomplaintville, population: you

The complaint still applies (the 'not able to resurrect tabs' thing) unless you're claiming that it is impossible for FF to crash.

To paraphrase douglas adams, the difference between Opera, which can crash, and Firefox, which can't, is that it's impossible to ressurect things in Firefox when it does.

Flayer · 18 Jul 2004, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

Really ? How ?

Avant does what I need it to for a browser. Opera I wont pay for and it doesn't do anything more than Avant does for free. Firefox is ok but unreliable.

I believe you are being ignorant

~Vaio~

Well it doesn't impact my life at all whether I sort my garbage or not, but still I do because on the long term it's a good thing to do (not for me but for future generations bla..bla..bla you know what I mean). What I mean is, it's not a big hassle for you to get used to another browser, and if everybody did that, the world (ok, the internet) would be a better place (ask any webdeveloper). Opera has got some nice articles on their website about their visions on international open standards and a patent-free web etc.
But you probably think I'm talking garbage, so I won't bother any more.

PS: You don't have to pay for opera, just get a damn cd key, it's not that difficult.

Leshy · 18 Jul 2004, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

I believe you are being ignorant

No offense, but if anyone is ignorant in this thread, it is you. New vulnerabilities are discovered in MSIE so frequently, that even the US government has issued the statement that people should start using alternative browsers. MSIE simply is not a secure browser, even with regular patching.

And the statement that AvantBrowser can do as much as Opera, is ridiculous. It can't do half of what Opera does by default (and Firefox is able to do through extensions). Many of which are features that you would say "I never need those anyway" about, until you've actually used them and found that they make browsing so much more convenient. Hello mouse gestures! Hello reopening pages on improper shutdown, including history per page. Hello being able to reopen previously closed windows. Hello being able to disable background sounds, GIF animations or JavaScript at a single keypress and mouseclick. Hello having a lot more screenspace. Hello being able to add in any search engine to your address bar.

And last, but certainly not least: hello Firefox and Opera displaying your pages at Schumacher speed, whereas MSIE first needs to take a pitstop or two.

Leshy · 18 Jul 2004, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiddy

I like Opera, and at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference, which is why these debates* are so pathetic.

*Leshy

If you read my posts, I think you'll find that I advocate the use of both Firefox and Opera instead of MSIE, which is in my opinion a more important step than whether someone uses either Firefox or Opera. Of course I will certainly not hide my personal preference for the latter, backed up by arguments why I feel that is the case; however, I will always mark that it is my personal preference I'm talking about. I don't see how that is an issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

But I know what you mean, 90% of the features in MS Office I never use.

Difference is that MS Office isn't actually a considerably smaller and faster package than it's alternatives

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

No offense, but if anyone is ignorant in this thread, it is you. New vulnerabilities are discovered in MSIE so frequently, that even the US government has issued the statement that people should start using alternative browsers. MSIE simply is not a secure browser, even with regular patching.

And the statement that AvantBrowser can do as much as Opera, is ridiculous. It can't do half of what Opera does by default (and Firefox is able to do through extensions). Many of which are features that you would say "I never need those anyway" about, until you've actually used them and found that they make browsing so much more convenient. Hello mouse gestures! Hello reopening pages on improper shutdown, including history per page. Hello being able to reopen previously closed windows. Hello being able to disable background sounds, GIF animations or JavaScript at a single keypress and mouseclick. Hello having a lot more screenspace. Hello being able to add in any search engine to your address bar.

And last, but certainly not least: hello Firefox and Opera displaying your pages at Schumacher speed, whereas MSIE first needs to take a pitstop or two.

In this post, Leshy misses the point while foaming at the mouth at the indignation of someone that commits the crime of admitting to using Internet Explorer (or Avant Browser as I call it).

I am well aware of all the vulnerabilities with IE and Windows etc. You don't keep a network totally secure for over 3 years with NO problems if you are ignorant of the security problems. I doubt any browser could be said to be totally secure unless it is installed on a computer that is unplugged and locked away in a box before being buried in a 25 ft deep hole.

Avant displays web pages. That's all I want it to do. Opera would do the same but I don't see the point in paying for it. I don't use any 'advanced' features. I already have pop up blocking/anti virus/ Active X blocking, you name it, I use it. Opera may have it as standard, I don't know, and I don't care. I have them anyway. Also, tt does reopen pages on improper shutdown, previously closed windows. I can disablebackground sounds, GIF animations, Flash, Scripts, Active X or JavaScript at a single keypress and mouseclick.

Wait, you've not even tried Avant have you ? It does everything you listed........

~Vaio~

MrL_JaKiri · 18 Jul 2004, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaio

Opera would do the same but I don't see the point in paying for it

I use opera, and I haven't paid for it.

Vaio · 18 Jul 2004, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flayer

Well it doesn't impact my life at all whether I sort my garbage or not, but still I do because on the long term it's a good thing to do (not for me but for future generations bla..bla..bla you know what I mean). What I mean is, it's not a big hassle for you to get used to another browser, and if everybody did that, the world (ok, the internet) would be a better place (ask any webdeveloper). Opera has got some nice articles on their website about their visions on international open standards and a patent-free web etc.
But you probably think I'm talking garbage, so I won't bother any more.

PS: You don't have to pay for opera, just get a damn cd key, it's not that difficult.

You are not talking garbage, you are just attempting to convince me that you know better. I don't think you do.

I changed from Mozilla to Avant around 9 months ago and I don't see the need to change back. If it worked on my Mandrake box I would use it there as well.

See reply to Leshy for more points, ta

~Vaio~