[Approved] Suicide

[noah02]

I think this might not work and everyone will slate it(well the ppl who read suggestions anyways ) and I did check for past ideas.

Would it be possible for structure Killers to be suicidal bombers?
Because why would a ship target ships then another ship just happen to pop a few rounds of at a planet and just kill 20% of there structures then run away laughing.

Being as unrealistic as that is why not have the structure killers be suicide bombers were they would still cost the same and for a frigate being an avg size ship would crash on more buildings (more frigs to blow up 20%) and battleships being a lot bigger to land and kill 20% would lose less before of there bigger size and wider area to suicide on hence why they on avg will cost a bit more as they kill more because of there size instead of there guns.

Just an idea for ppl to think and slate or adjust to there likeing.

A also expect a reply of mist coz gives good feedback on my bad ideas.

[mist]

i hate arguments based on realism in a game which is blatantly unrealistiy.

that asside, it's an interesting idea. It should mean that people don't use structure killers on newbies, which would be a bonus, but will probably make them cheaper. i'm not sure what effect that will have.

-mist

[Banned]

Making structure killers blow up when they kill something is a pretty good idea. This balances the time-cost v resource-cost issue that weighs strongly in favor of structure killers at the moment.

[Appocomaster]

Basically it works how pods used to? you lost the pods that capped, so likewise you loose the structure killers that kill structures.

[Kal]

this might be a very interesting idea

[fizzyxl]

sounds like a good idea to me. for all the reasons above which i am not going to retype

[demiGOD]

PDS so structure killers wont fly back home laughing - where defense systems will only engage on structure killers, and will be built up to a certain amount depending on how many structures you have so PDS wont be abused

[god113]

This idea rocks

[noah02]

Originally Posted by demiGOD

PDS so structure killers wont fly back home laughing - where defense systems will only engage on structure killers, and will be built up to a certain amount depending on how many structures you have so PDS wont be abused

PDS ?
What you on about?
This certainly aint that PDS that everyone hates
Read it proper at the top or correct me

[mist]

i think he's trying to oh so subtely hijack the thread towards an idea that's already been dumped

-mist

[noah02]

Kal can you dlete demi gods bit as it is totally irrelevant to the thread

[Tactitus]

It seems like a reasonable idea, insofar as it makes it fairly uneconomical to destroy structures if the target only has a few structures (since they're inexpensive to replace). So it's an antibashing measure.

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Basically it works how pods used to? you lost the pods that capped, so likewise you loose the structure killers that kill structures.

That raises another point: do empty fleets still have to travel back?

Also, do suicided structure killers generate salvage?

[noah02]

Depends on whether we get salvage for constructions or salvage for the ships either of them.
But not both.

[Judge]

I like the idea :- mostly for the same reasons as everyone else.

Dunno about the salvage tho, perhaps only salvage is gained from the destroyed structure?

And what happens to the other SK's that cant land (due to cap) do they die killing nothing, or do they return?

Perhaps if they died (ie make the ship a one way trip type) then it will reduce bashing for the sake of it?

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

That raises another point: do empty fleets still have to travel back?

Empty fleets take ETA 1 to 'return' (free up).

Also, do suicided structure killers generate salvage?

As it stands, I'd say whatever's easier to code, the amount granted would be 'trivial'. I'm for either salvage for suicided structure killers or salvage for dead structures. Preferably the latter.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Banned

Empty fleets take ETA 1 to 'return' (free up).
As it stands, I'd say whatever's easier to code, the amount granted would be 'trivial'. I'm for either salvage for suicided structure killers or salvage for dead structures. Preferably the latter.

Tiz what I said

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Judge

I like the idea :- mostly for the same reasons as everyone else.

Dunno about the salvage tho, perhaps only salvage is gained from the destroyed structure?

And what happens to the other SK's that cant land (due to cap) do they die killing nothing, or do they return?

Perhaps if they died (ie make the ship a one way trip type) then it will reduce bashing for the sake of it?

I dont think the whole sk part of the fleet should die at all as a one way trip just the amount of ships that would cause the 20% damage should crash into the planet's contruction then the rest of the sk would be flak just like they are now.
In theory it should be easy.
But I would say salvage from the ships would be easier to do than from constructions even though I would prefer it from constructions.

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by mist

i think he's trying to oh so subtely hijack the thread towards an idea that's already been dumped

-mist

LOL! no! not at all! all i'm saying is, the general idea to make structure killers as suicide bombers, in my point of view, is because there's a limited (or no) way of defending your structures because generally, structure killers land the target, kill a lot of structures and go back home without really losing any of them (most of the time) - now stats obviously have anti-CR/BS/FR/etc that will be against structure killers that are CR/BS/FR/etc. right? the problem is, a huge amount of structure killers being launched gives the defenders a 'spread' or 'split' attention span of his fleets against his attackers, so he ends up with a lot of ships lost + a lot of structures lost - the idea of PDS (what i was trying to imply with my post) was just to have an exclusive stats for PDS to be anti-structure killers only, that way, you dont feel like your wasting your structure killers to your target when you're fully aware that theyre gonna be destroyed anyway because theyre, you know... suicide bombers..

[noah02]

That clears that up thank you.
All in all most ppl like this idea kal so make it approved ppppppplease

[Proxi]

Tis a good idea.
The more structres a planet stands to lose, the more ships requried to suicide in order to cause the damage [/slight satisfaction for the defender]
Helps towards people not bashing newbs into the ground with structure killers anymore aswell

Approve!

[Gate]

First impressions are that I really like this. Makes them more of a war weapon; which is how I envisaged them

Sounds good!

[hells]

generally seems like an awsome idea, as some fooker was killing all my structures last round and i didnt liek the fact their was f all i could do tbh,

awome idea, good call dude

[Neferti]

seems pretty good to me. Structures are way too vulnerable as it is. Also of course would be nice (and make sense) to get salvage from structures. Salvage from suicided ships would be interesting. Are you saying that only enough ships will suicide to kill 20% of structures? In which case, if a bs-class structure killer attacks a planet with only 5 or 10 structures, it could be the case that you get more back in salvage than you lost the more structures you have, the less of a problem this would be (at a guess); and so again benefits smaller players(?)

Needs some extra thought i think, just a quick idea.

[hells]

post seems to of died so thought id boost it back up


approve it kal :P

[Kal]

need to talk to spinner about how hard it would be - also worht discussing is would it be worht whiel pods also dying when they cap?

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Kal

need to talk to spinner about how hard it would be - also worht discussing is would it be worht whiel pods also dying when they cap?

noooooooooo
Even Kals hijacking my thread

We after sorting out the structure killing problem on this thread

[Kal]

Well, i'm going to take a guess that becuase of something else I know is happening having structure killers die is probably quite hard - however if the time was put into coding it then it would obviusly mean we could do the same for other types of ships so it is worth looking at.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Kal

Well, i'm going to take a guess that becuase of something else I know is happening having structure killers die is probably quite hard - however if the time was put into coding it then it would obviusly mean we could do the same for other types of ships so it is worth looking at.

So is this a Decline or Approved?

[Kal]

its i can't talk to spinner because he is in hospital, and when he is out of hospital he will be busy recovering and finishing round 13

[Brimstone]

I like the idea of dead SK's.

The idea of anti-SK constructions (IE, PDS) could be interesting, so demigod stick it up in a seperate post. That isn't for discussion here.

Pods dying for cap i dont like the idea of though, as it just slows down growth again. The only way that could work is to make pods extra cheap/super-effective, as the loss of pods in the early stages when roiding will make roiding less effective. (instant losses without enemy ships to kill you)

Brimstone

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

I like the idea of dead SK's.

The idea of anti-SK constructions (IE, PDS) could be interesting, so demigod stick it up in a seperate post. That isn't for discussion here.

i will - i suggest you do the same also on this part of your post:

Pods dying for cap i dont like the idea of though, as it just slows down growth again. The only way that could work is to make pods extra cheap/super-effective, as the loss of pods in the early stages when roiding will make roiding less effective. (instant losses without enemy ships to kill you)

you dig?

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

I like the idea of dead SK's.

The idea of anti-SK constructions (IE, PDS) could be interesting, so demigod stick it up in a seperate post. That isn't for discussion here.

Brimstone

Already posted the idea

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=181768

Tried my damnest to argue it then came up with this idea instead

[demiGOD]

which is a damn good idea

[Goafer LX]

seems like good idea, but.. (i haven't read all of forum so this may have been answered)
wouldn't u lose your value when your ships explode, thus your score would go down, and the xp from the attack jus wouldn't be worth anything...
of course it would make more interesting war scenarios and it would make the game more tactical i guess...

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Goafer LX#

seems like good idea, but.. (i haven't read all of forum so this may have been answered)
wouldn't u lose your value when your ships explode, thus your score would go down, and the xp from the attack jus wouldn't be worth anything...
of course it would make more interesting war scenarios and it would make the game more tactical i guess...

You don't get xp for structure killing
And yes your value might shorten but not very much unless you attack someone with a 100 constructions+ but then again unless your n00b bashing then your score will never go down it will just go up
Good incentive not to waste resources bashing the little guys when your roiding them.
More and more good points every post

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

That raises another point: do empty fleets still have to travel back?

Also, do suicided structure killers generate salvage?

I would have thought the most obvious question to ask was: what determines which SK's die?

ie, if it was the last SK to kill a structure, then there is the obvious advantage of the race with the smallest SK as they would only loose a Fighter, as opposed to a battleship. or, if it is all of the SKs that contributed to the destruction of a structure (ie, it takes 10 of them to kill 1 structure), do they all die? (i would have thought so). How would multiple planet's SKs on the same target be handeled - who dies and who doesnt?

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

I would have thought the most obvious question to ask was: what determines which SK's die?

ie, if it was the last SK to kill a structure, then there is the obvious advantage of the race with the smallest SK as they would only loose a Fighter, as opposed to a battleship. or, if it is all of the SKs that contributed to the destruction of a structure (ie, it takes 10 of them to kill 1 structure), do they all die? (i would have thought so). How would multiple planet's SKs on the same target be handeled - who dies and who doesnt?

Originally Posted by noah02

I dont think the whole sk part of the fleet should die at all as a one way trip just the amount of ships that would cause the 20% damage should crash into the planet's contruction then the rest of the sk would be flak just like they are now.
In theory it should be easy.
But I would say salvage from the ships would be easier to do than from constructions even though I would prefer it from constructions.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by noah02

Snippet

Thx, i hadnt read that far :P

[Goafer LX]

How about another type of structure killer... so that one type is cheap and easy to manufacture, but blows up when u use it
and another which is v expensive but comes back...

[Clogg]

Damn Noah02 maybe you should join the PA team, you're spamming a good idea one after another! I like this idea, or having structure killers out of the game completely, since the only encourage bashing over any other strategic use!

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by Banned

Empty fleets take ETA 1 to 'return' (free up).
As it stands, I'd say whatever's easier to code, the amount granted would be 'trivial'. I'm for either salvage for suicided structure killers or salvage for dead structures. Preferably the latter.

Agreed with the latter, otherwise possible abuse could follow.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by sniborp

Agreed with the latter, otherwise possible abuse could follow.

How? Suicided structure killers is in reference to flying into a structure, not a suicide fleet that will just be destroyed on landing.

or am i missing something now that the thread has gone over the page and i cba t og oback and look .

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

How? Suicided structure killers is in reference to flying into a structure, not a suicide fleet that will just be destroyed on landing.

or am i missing something now that the thread has gone over the page and i cba t og oback and look .

I think you are right in what you are saying if i am understanding what you are saying that is but to put a little but more clearly.

The amount of ships it takes now to blow up 1 structure is the amount of ships that would be suicided into the planet to crash into structures in good old suicide fashion. Within reasons of the % of that can actually be destroyed of structures themselves.

Then because the ships have suicided on your planet you claim the 25% of that ships resources.

[cypher]

good idea tbh i do think all structure killers should die that are being sent tho, it means the game won't be fully filled with SK's only... and massive overkill on every attack people do, as SK's are a nice idea but they are used too much atm, so it's better to kill it all if people send em

[noah02]

Originally Posted by cypher

good idea tbh i do think all structure killers should die that are being sent tho, it means the game won't be fully filled with SK's only... and massive overkill on every attack people do, as SK's are a nice idea but they are used too much atm, so it's better to kill it all if people send em

Or whatever structure killers are needed to kill the structures.
No point in losing say 1k galleons if they have only 2 light factors and they kill 1.
So the amount that dies would be the amount it takes to kill that 1 structure.

[Troll]

i didn't read the thread but instead of suicidal ships why not call them guided missles and they can still have verying classes based on the size of the missles payload. The entire suicide thing is not very PR etc.

They could be shot down like ships and could be flaked by ships.

just a thought

time for work

[noah02]

Without creating a new thread again, I still love this idea and so did everyone else when it was posted and would still like it implemented into the game.
I know armour and price has all changed to make things a lil more expensive etc... but in all honesty if you had behemoth and you sent out a bs fleet to a target you know you can take (coz its not like you are gonna hit somene you cant hit is it unless ofc your a farm) your going to make the fleet as big as you can to make it harder to defend.

[furball]

I still like it. But I don't want the same for pods.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by furball

I still like it. But I don't want the same for pods.

Yeah I told Kal to stop hijacking my thread with that lol

[Kargool]

I dont like the idea. One of the reasons is that it would be less attractive to for example hit an alliance scanner. Killing constructions is important in alliance wars.