Mentor Team

[alch]

Allright Folks and ladies

Here an interesting idea i would like you to discuss and give some constructive input and what you think on the overall idea.

My idea is that in the earlier rounds, because the number of planets and players was way more high than today, new player had the time and place to adapt and enough people to link to and get help from.

Nowdays, The memberbase shrinked and the few that remain are mostly The Hardcore of Planetarion, so the new player are kind of trapped here.
They start to play and mostly because they dont have no one to relay on or no one they know in the big alliance, they make their own alliance like in earlier round.
Appoint few HCs (some of them are inactive) very fast they find out that because they are weaker, they need more members and they merge with other alliance, bringing up the memberbase and along with this the HCs grow too.

After a few days/weeks, they start to play as an alliance, but because the universe is very small, they only targets they have left is the big alliances, because of lack of tactics or organization, they dont get thru, or their attack struggle.
No defense when needed, and they are the meat of the bigger alliance which farm them nicely while the round go on.

The purpose of my idea is to give a hand to theses alliance/players.
Nowdays, we are all "whining" about the situation of PA, the memberbase is shrinking because theses new players unable to adapt just quit after few days or weeks or dont upgrade their accounts because they dont see the point or just dont know the features.

I was thinking about making a Team of Mentors, supervised by a senior mentor.
The mentors Team will be neutral people who will be qualified to help out the new players with every question or action they need.

These players or HC/DC/BC will be able to choose in the Passpost "hire a mentor" while they will be able to browse few pages where the mentors will show the newbie what they do or what they achieve in the PA community.
once a mentor is "hired", he will be able to contact or get contacted by the player on irc or ingame, and help him in the matter or the aspect.

There will be also Classes directed by the mentors once a week or more, published so the new players will be able to schedule it with their real life agenda and participate and learn technic or improve their playing skills.

A HC alliance will be able to hire a mentor for a certain time, this mentor will be able to join the alliance ingame, assist him in every aspect of the alliance: Structuring,Attack,Defenses and go on, Giving him the strong base for the alliance and pushing the unpaid players to pay their planets and participate more often in the game, "addicting" them in some way into the game.

An official channel will be present on netgamers allowing the new players to join it and contact the mentor directly if its for question or in fact hire them.

Everytime that an alliance is formed, a message will be sent to the senior mentor, and the senior mentor will be able to contact himself the alliance HC to see if anything is needed, this will allow the mentors to track down at the begining the inexperienced players and give them the help in the time that the growing is very important, explaining them why paying the account is important (because of the tech tree being limited) and by giving them the experience they need to maintain the alliance and continue for many rounds.

A large set of comprehensive tools for the mentors will allow them to simplify the communication between them and the alliances, maybe the ability to join multiple alliance ingame, will allow the mentor to work on few cases in the same time.


The mentors ofc, wont be able to join Ingame any of the big alliance or small one if its not on an official duty (this will be tracked by the senior mentor itself assuring that his team is totally neutral and unbiased).
Having meeting and building up technics of how to teach players, it will be exactly like a school where the teacher have a board and improve their teaching skills and have their own agenda.
Each mentors will have his own style and will meet the Quality/standart setted by the PAteam and the Senior mentor, assuring that the new players will have the right support and will have a set of diversified help to choose from and evolve into a experience player and enjoy from the Quality and the game called Planetarion.

This will be one of the few base to ensure that Planetarion memberbase will grow instead of shrinking.
This idea is still in his baby stage, but lot of ideas and time are putted into it to forge, so your input is more than welcome.
Karmulian allready had a look at it and agreed about the concept, the only thing we need now is to know what you Guys think about it.

alch

[Kal]

I think its a great idea that coudlr eally help some of the smaller alliances get off the ground and start to grow.

I have been tyring this roudn to contact some of the smaller alliances, however I have had highly limited success, if the passport could be used for this then the mentors would atcually be able to find the alliance hcs and communicate with them, this coudl then result in getting mroe people on irc and having the communit growing as well as the player base.

Great idea alch

[Ragana]

:]

we just need some mentors now

[Recluse]

Sounds like a great idea to me, but the only problem is finding people who are unbiased to give info. A mentor who favors an alliance, may hint to that alliance info which he gains from the smaller alliance he is mentoring, about possible attacks or tactics which they plan to do/perform. otherwise I think it will benefit the entire community by helping the new players out.

[SSdraken]

I completely agree with all your ideas, and support this in all ways shapes angles and forms. Good luck.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Strider2k

Sounds like a great idea to me, but the only problem is finding people who are unbiased to give info. A mentor who favors an alliance, may hint to that alliance info which he gains from the smaller alliance he is mentoring, about possible attacks or tactics which they plan to do/perform. otherwise I think it will benefit the entire community by helping the new players out.

Of course thats why there is a senior mentor to monitor the mentors, and also fo course pa team in the background.

[alch]

its really a problem indeed, the thing is that almost 100% of all PAteam or official position today are occupied by ex-player, but the thing is that i do think that some people could be unbiased, its just a question of morale, knowing the importance of such action and this mentor team.
The senior mentor will be the one to track and see the ability of the team to be unbiased and act toward his mentor if one of them show favoritism.

[MOTANU]

great idea m8.But if i become a mentor(and i want to) and i join a n00b aliance i wont be ablw to attack them.So if i becmoe a mentor to more n0b aliance that means no n00b bashing for me.so i suggest the mentor to be in his aliance and only one small aliance.
The idea is very good,that will make more ppl play the game and make it more fun

[mist]

alch/kalvirus, i assume you're planning to leave fang and be mentors? which pateam members have you got to agree to oversee this?

-mist

[Kal]

Originally Posted by MOTANU

great idea m8.But if i become a mentor(and i want to) and i join a n00b aliance i wont be ablw to attack them.So if i becmoe a mentor to more n0b aliance that means no n00b bashing for me.so i suggest the mentor to be in his aliance and only one small aliance.
The idea is very good,that will make more ppl play the game and make it more fun

depending on the nature of the help that the alliances wnated, u may or may not need to join them in game - but yes there woudl eb an obvious limite base don the number of menotrs of who coudl receive the highest level of help.

Mentors woudl have to be allianceless... which means i guess there won't be a huge number of applicants for the job.... but I guess we don;t knwo how many woudl be interested until the idea is implemented or not implemented.

[Helix]

mentors wont change a damn thing.

It is a novel idea to be sure, but the fact is that new players will never be as active as the current veterans. It takes a few rounds for people to be that active. Without that kind of activity no amount of mentoring will change the inevitable.

Nice idea, but it will never work.

[MOTANU]

ehm i dissagree with that.mentors should be in their aliance and the small alliace they help.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by mist

alch/kalvirus, i assume you're planning to leave fang and be mentors? which pateam members have you got to agree to oversee this?

-mist

If I applied for the job, leaving fang would be no big thing for me, as i'm not exactly a long term member (been in it for this round only), fnag is a great place and a good community, but there are more important things to me than any alliance winning the round... as without new alliances the game cannot grow and their cannot be future rounds.

As to who form pa team woudl oversee it, I don;t think that matters at this stage, as we are still only talking ideas.

[Gerbie]

First thing to do when people sign up is send them a msg from the mentor team. Welcoming them and inviting them to ask any question (game related) they like.

I'd like to see an option in the message sysem ingame where people can send a msg to 'the mentor team'. This will be a lot easier for players then having to look into the forums, or try to get on IRC.

Coaching an alliance might work, but not much: it's more a question of having the right material to attack and defend with. Activity is the key to being a good alliance.

IRC is not a must for alliances. Something like MSN or ICQ is used alot by players. I think at least some mentors should use that as well.

I don't think smaller alliances have a problem getting targets. There are plenty of inactive planets with minimal score and ships and plenty of roids that make easy targets.

I'd be willing to spend some time as coach, though I don't really have very much time available. It might force me to spam these forums less...

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

First thing to do when people sign up is send them a msg from the mentor team. Welcoming them and inviting them to ask any question (game related) they like.

I'd like to see an option in the message sysem ingame where people can send a msg to 'the mentor team'. This will be a lot easier for players then having to look into the forums, or try to get on IRC.

Coaching an alliance might work, but not much: it's more a question of having the right material to attack and defend with. Activity is the key to being a good alliance.

IRC is not a must for alliances. Something like MSN or ICQ is used alot by players. I think at least some mentors should use that as well.

I don't think smaller alliances have a problem getting targets. There are plenty of inactive planets with minimal score and ships and plenty of roids that make easy targets.

I'd be willing to spend some time as coach, though I don't really have very much time available. It might force me to spam these forums less...

I agree that an alliance obviosuly needs active players etc and there is a limit to how muc help a mentor could give them, but there is a lot of knowledge that can be passed on, simple things that establsihed alliances and players do withotu thinking that can hugely improve a persons success.

But yes, mentoring should apply to players as well, giving them tips on how to play better improve fleets etc.

[The Kulz]

It's a good idea and will help smaller alliances to be more organized but they'll still get swamped under waves of incoming everyday

[Nadar]

Good idea

[Kal]

tbh i'm not exaclty sure how much incs a really small alliance gets, i;'m talking the allainces ranked below like #15-20 that no one views as real alliances - their scores are so low they can;t actually be getting that much of what we woudl call "serious" incs. I woudl think their main problme atm is private gals, meaning their gals suck so they neevr get even in gal def. I think that random small alliances can survicve and function in a random uni if their gals decide to help them - maybe even upgrade their accounts and things like that. Most of the small allainces lack paid accounts - which basically means they can;t attack and defend, meaning that they arn;t really playing the game. now I spoke to the HC of one of theese alliances, and he didn;t even realsie the ebenfits of getting his members to get paid accounts - its this kind of simple thing that I think mentors can help with.

[Rec_Edge]

Well said! A mentor idea to help new players... Sound great! Only thing you have wrong here is there needs to be enought Mentors so that 1 mentor who has helped a alliance is also forbidden from future attacks on that alliance cause he knows coords... Unless you don't give him Coord Detials and to have a mentor you must be given a Specail Nick to Log into to talk to a Mentor! Like when you Schedule a time with one your emailed a Login Info to Login to that will automaticly place you into a Channel to be helped and assisted by a Mentor assigned to you! Well your idea is awsome but there must also be many more ideas to be added and arranged! Hey I like it and I give you correct for the idea. IIf and when this happens look me up I will be the first to sign up for this cause I would love to help PA and help new players like I was helped when I was a new Player in R4!


Rec_Edge

[Zh|l]

When I signed up a week and a half (may be a day or two off) ago, I went into a randon galaxy.

My GC seemed nice, but apart from him the rest of the galaxy seemed sh*t. This was until the #10 planet joined. A person who was new to the game. I have since taken him under my wing and am attempting to help him (I used my 'fame' to get him defence - thanks Forest, and am trying to use it to help him find an alliance)

The problem is, even with my fame its increadible hard for him to have a successful planet. He gets constant incoming - and until he gets an established alliance he is fked for attaining defence.

I don't think an alliance of 'newbies' would work, it would be far too stressful for the command staff and every other alliance would target it straight away for easy roids (Don't deny it, alliances go for the easiest roids)

A dedicated program and agreement between current alliances is what is needed to allow newbies to flurish.


PS: Whilst in a random galaxy, I got more incoming that certain galaxies within FPM and whatnot. Record was 5 'waves' of attackers in one night. It was only my fame in getting into an established alliance that saved me.

[Red_Guy]

Okay, my first thought was something about treehugging hippies. But I'll make a decent reply instead.

This is a good idea. It will really help new players setting up a new alliance. Too bad then, that it will fail. 'Why will it fail?', I hear people asking. The answer is fairly simple. Power corrupts. You want a player who isn't in any big alliance, who knows what he is doing in the game, who doesn't abuse 'his' newbie alliance and who is completely neutral.

Good ****ing luck.

Every player who knows what he is doing IS in a big alliance. The reason he got big, is because of his alliance (for the small percentage who solo'ed to the top; then you got friends. You can't win this game solo). So does wannabe mentors are biased. And sooner or later one mentor WILL put 'his' alliance onto some target, use them as fodder, bait or whatever. Hell, it can even be the senior mentor (high profile ppl can **** up as well, anyone remember Prince?).

So you can make rules and more rules. Rules to check the mentor, the senior mentor, the n00b allies, whatever. But in the end they can be circumvented (lying, denying to name but two). It's even possible to say it was the right tactical & strategical thing to do to launch that alliance on some other n00bs. You won't hear that alliance complaining, theyre polishing those new roids.

You might think I'm pessimistic (maybe I am), but it's still a dog eat dog game. But it's still a good idea though. So why not just make a library with tactics etc. A reference guide for new players. That removes the human factor in the 'advice' and it saves time because you don't need to give the same advice every time

[edit: bloody typo's]

[alch]

This is true. the mentor idea is here to not only for alliance, this will be also a good thing for individual players, at least that how i concepted this idea which was on another base called "newbie training Camp" but has been a little bit changed since my conversation with karmulian.
Some features also had been added by kal aswell and some talk with different small and new players and also experienced.

About what motanu said. a mentor should be totaly neutral, which mean not in any alliance, because always at the end, this mentor will tie the new player that he think very active and has potential to join his alliance, we want to avoid this, this is exactly what kill the smaller alliance.
They act like a camp for new players, train them and then the flux of good player to the top alliance shut down the small alliance.

We want to be able to give a hand to every new player and alliance as a lot, push their activity, push them to upgrade and show them some technic that might make them enjoy.

Waking up from a good sleep and checking the combat report of one of your defense and see that one of you attacker (that kepy "farming" you because you didnt know that you actually can organize defense) is pretty satisfacting, or taking a small alliance and declaring war on them and playing against them and hit galaxies together as friends in small alliance turn this game a little bit more enjoyable than what all of you think it can be.

its proved many times, ive seen new players getting organized and yelling because they were happy they crushed a 3k incoming ( before the little help they had, they never think they could handle a defense call), and few of them allready upgraded and will play next round with more friend as an alliance.

This is exactly what we need, we need to give to the small player the satisfaction that we all had once, the twist in attacking/defending your friends, its doesnt have to be that your alliance will end #1.

But lets say you have another 5 new alliances in the around, and you declared war on 3 of them and side with another one, you may all end #30 to #35, but the idea that you are ranked #30 and the other are below you show you that you won the battle and this is important.
they need to take all of this in proportion. to have fun, at the end its a GAME.

And they need someone to push them, to upgrade their accounts, to teach them the game, to push them to reply to the forums and take an active role in the community and not step aside and leave.
this is the reply i had from someone today, i wont say his name because i dont know if i can post his nick here, but here it go:

[20:28] <xxxxxxxxx> ALch, read it and like it
[20:28] <alch|V_busy> ok
[20:28] <alch|V_busy> then write your input please
[20:28] <xxxxxxxxxxxxx> i have no account
[20:28] <alch|V_busy> reg one
[20:28] <alch|V_busy> come on
[20:28] <alch|V_busy> it take 2 sec
[20:28] <xxxxxxxxxxxx> and pirate planetarion is full of hard players who scare me
[20:29] <alch|V_busy> nah, dont worry they wont bite you
[20:29] <alch|V_busy> its coz all the new player are scared
[20:29] <alch|V_busy> we need to change this
[20:29] <xxxxxxxxx> yup
[20:30] <xxxxxxxxx> Thankyou for registering xxxxxxxx an email.....
[20:30] <xxxxxxxxx> 16.2 secs actually

Its actually sad and that why only few people remained on AD and turned out that the forum became shit, this community tend to be shreded in pieces.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Red_Guy

tou might think I'm pessimistic (maybe I am), but it's still a dog eat dog game. But it's still a good idea though. So why not just make a library with tactics etc. A reference guide for new players. That removes the human factor in the 'advice' and it saves time because you don't need to give the same advice every time

people don;t read thats the problem, as i said above people dont; even understand why it is they should pay to play the game - it is a hman touch that is essnetial - this is also somethign that otehr games liek eve are doing.


Also this idea is not meant to miraculously save small alliances, it is just meant to give them a helping hand into the game. It doens;t even have to be brand new alliances, it could be a group joining from elsewhere, or old players coming back e.g. valhalla - people that dont know abotu the current pa, or the past few rounds etc, people who need a helping hand to get resestablished.

This is not some miracle solution to save pa, mearly a way to help, and hopefully in combination with some of th eplasn for round 11, it might do somethign usefull.

[^MDK^MAN^]

People will come when the game itsself becomes phun for new players, Powerblocking, Napping and bashing is the 3 of the worst problems.

As for the game i think Privgals and WPFM sure killed r10.5 i and really hope there wil not be any more priv rounds like this.

Not blaiming only WPFM on this, its all HC's that are to weak minded to dare to go on there own instead to try to rally as big blocks as they can. ofc everyone whants to win but only 1 allance will end up #1 so whats the point to ally Top4 alliances and bash the rest of uni, Phraktos will be the first loser unless they can beat FAnG

Alliance vs Alliance and the round would rock. But does the HC's have the balls for it?

As for mentors... joining a active random gal solves that.... as it did for me and most other players

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Red_Guy

Okay, my first thought was something about treehugging hippies. But I'll make a decent reply instead.

This is a good idea. It will really help new players setting up a new alliance. Too bad then, that it will fail. 'Why will it fail?', I hear people asking. The answer is fairly simple. Power corrupts. You want a player who isn't in any big alliance, who knows what he is doing in the game, who doesn't abuse 'his' newbie alliance and who is completely neutral.

Good ****ing luck.

Every player who knows what he is doing IS in a big alliance. The reason he got big, is because of his alliance (for the small percentage who solo'ed to the top; then you got friends. You can't win this game solo). So does wannabe mentors are biased. And sooner or later one mentor WILL put 'his' alliance onto some target, use them as fodder, bait or whatever. Hell, it can even be the senior mentor (high profile ppl can **** up as well, anyone remember Prince?).

So you can make rules and more rules. Rules to check the mentor, the senior mentor, the n00b allies, whatever. But in the end they can be circumvented (lying, denying to name but two). It's even possible to say it was the right tactical & strategical thing to do to launch that alliance on some other n00bs. You won't hear that alliance complaining, theyre polishing those new roids.

You might think I'm pessimistic (maybe I am), but it's still a dog eat dog game. But it's still a good idea though. So why not just make a library with tactics etc. A reference guide for new players. That removes the human factor in the 'advice' and it saves time because you don't need to give the same advice every time

[edit: bloody typo's]

I don't agree with this. The entire "power corrupts" thing is just a phrase that can translate into reality, its not the base root problem with this idea. Honestly, you cant have a unknown person take on something like this - it -has- to be someone with experience in an alliance (I would say top alliance, but thats just my viewpoint as there are plenty of good players in smaller alliances). So that means you have to get someone with ties in Planetarion (or previous ties).

Anyway, any abuse of the newbie alliance to hit certain targets could be monitored carefully by the PA crew (and the community itself). But you are thinking in terms of a newbie alliance (which I dont believe is possible in the current environment), and whilst I do agree with the notion of it being 'neutral', why shouldnt it gain political agreements if it can safeguard members? Tbh, the ramifications of an alliance going to war or switching politics is an important thing to learn for anyone. The basic player needs not know everything, but the basic concepts of a NAP, ally, hostile, enemy (yes hostile and enemy are different if inclusive).

A program imo is more feasible, a program where newbies can be helped to play the game and to find alliances suited for their style of play, yet again that would require assistance from the current alliances. But then again, whats to stop people masqerading as newbies to get into an established alliance as a spy?

Unless you pick up the entire command staff from an ex-alliance (say Legion or Fury or Eclipse) then its going to be hard to do a newbie alliance (the command staff need to at least know eachother and get on.)

That's my two cents.

Sidenote: I didnt abuse Wrath whatsoever as testament to my planet for r5. Neither did Tuba HC. Legion is debateable due to Iliad. Wont comment for others.

[Kal]

the idea is not that the mentors form a new sinlge newbie alliance (although it in essence was in a much earleir version of the idea) it is that the mentors go in and help existing small/new alliances as well as new ones that may emerge.

And as zhil says, one fo the smot importnat things to teach them is about piltics and that side of the game, if they arre to ahve any chance of survual they will need to work with other people etc.

[alch]

in the process of doing weekly classes like i described in my explanation, we could also host a guest in this class which will be able to comment about PA, give his own view (ofc , we will have to torture him to be unbiased and be neutral as much possible without recruiting them ) and also help in his own department in the class itself, if he is a DC, we wil virtually make a defense call with real incoming or fake and show what the step should be to gather defense, if he is a BC, he will show exactly how you can picka target, what tool you use and so on,
so basically we wont use only neutral and unbiased mentors but also show the view and the experiences of these experience ppl that wont leave their alliance to be mentors but actually will be able to help the community in certain aspect.

[Gerbie]

How about a mentoralliance then? Like the one PA team has.

[alch]

what do you mean? explain please.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

How about a mentoralliance then? Like the one PA team has.

well the mentors woudl continually be joning variosu alliances, so not much point - unless next round joint membership is possible

[Zh|l]

The Entire Incoming Thing

I think some of you underestimate exactly how much incoming a newbie planet receives. Your idea that newbies would be happy to finish in an alliance ranked 30 odd is water-thin, such people are rare (hell, they are rare in the top alliances never mind smaller ones). Finding a person that takes constant bashing, yet gives it out good and still sticks around is like finding gold dust.

Even with all the lessons you provide, if the newbies achieve something only to be bashed down they will frown upon the game in general. If even members of top alliances quit after getting bashed, what do you think newbies will do?

Also, one of the main factors in sticking around when things are tough is due to an alliance community - a newbie alliance wouldnt have that (indeed, small alliances that are set up during that round wouldnt have that either). Its the community that sticks together and gets people to carry on playing. That's what kept me fighting for Fury in r4 and beyond, the bonds forged in r5 Wrath showed well for r6 Fury in its comeback.

Mentor Program

A program that supports regular lessons teaching the basic concepts of play is much more feasible.

The mentor "team" could consist of someone doing the administration and regular teachers (swapping and changing teachers would only serve to confuse newbies and such, look to your own school experiences if you dont believe me) that actually teach the lessons. The responsibility of the mentor administration would be in sorting a time schedule for the lessons to take place and checking up on what is being taught and whether it is actually suitable for that particular moment (Teaching a newb how to attack at the very beginning of the round is bad, since they would probabaly forget how to do that by the time they can feasibly attack.).

Alliances could request 'visits' from the mentor program which could host a wide variety of topics - e.g FAnG HC could be interested in how Fury dealt with the r5 stagnation. New Dawn could be interested in how Legion conducted itself in war.

Problems to overcome
- What is to be teached
- How are lessons to be carried out
- Who qualifies as a newbie
- Who is eligible to be a teacher/mentor
- Discussion point with current alliances on how they feel about the chances of recruiting newbies.

End of the day, the last point is particular important. Teaching a newbie all these skills only for alliances not to accept them is entirely counter productive. Additionally, whilst the notion of smaller alliances being set up is a nice one - I dont see how its currently feasible within the current political environment. They would just be targetted from the set go and raped.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

End of the day, the last point is particular important. Teaching a newbie all these skills only for alliances not to accept them is entirely counter productive. Additionally, whilst the notion of smaller alliances being set up is a nice one - I dont see how its currently feasible within the current political environment. They would just be targetted from the set go and raped.

tbh i'm not certain they woudlbe targetted - why target an alliance ranked say 30th when u r ranked 5th, its not really going to be a huge source of roids for u.... but then maybe i think to much of alliances.

[wakey]

Did we really need this raised here when its already being discussed elsewhere, especially when I've already proven how unworkable it is in reality simply due to the fact that you (alch) refuse to post on AD that no matter what happens your leaving FAnG to help a small alliance.

In theory this is great but its one of these pipe dreams that is simply not workable because as I've pointed out ANY person whom has the required knowledge to help small alliances out and hasnt been retired so long that they no longer have a true understanding of what the games like ISNT just going to give up their places in their alliances and no matter how many forums you post this idea on this is unlikly to change.

You either need to open your eyes to what really happens in this game or as Ive said before you need to get a group of high ranked people together and all go on AD an announce your quitting your alliances no matter what happens and then follow through on it otherwise PATeam would be totally foolish to even consider implemneting it because theres not the people around to make this acheivable.

[Forest]

I will do anything i can to help newbies.

I like the idea of players mentoring alliances especially.
However, it really does, as zhil stated, important to use fame as a tool, for gaining success (twatted the attacker btw).

I would be against not being abel to join a big alliance though, as without it, the mentor would be pretty much dead. And for new players being helped by a top 50 planet, they do see that as a big thing, so its important mentors can get a decent sized planets.

Would players be biased? Some may, some may not, but its a scheme by the players for the players, and surely trust needs to be brought into this.

[alch]

well, aboutt he guest idea, it wont be something that will constantly happens, it will be more like in you school when your dad came and gave a short overall of his profession, it happen once a while and can give a good contrat to what the teacher say.
we could also make the newbie player join big alliance for stage of 1 week with the alliance. lets say, we send 2 BC to one of the big or medium alliance to see how thing really are. or the DC will be there to see how a REAL DC handle a defense call.

All of this are just some quick ideas, the real concept will be designed later on if this idea will be adopted of course, and all the idea and how or what or when and where we teach and who teach will be very deeply discussed.

a program like in school will be gathered together and mentor will have to go and follow this program.
this need to be wisely concepted together to teach this, and i am sure a good set of mentors + outside players helping to forge the program and the features of this idea + a continual watching and evolving during the rounds could possibly bring much effectiveness into the game and the community.
We wont know if it fails until we will do it.

[Kal]

yes wakey it did need to be raised here as pa team wanted ti discussed by a wide audience.

and what alch is or is not doign is irrelevant to the idea.

we all know there will be problems finding people to do the job, but that does nto affect the validity of the idea.

on a side note i agree with a lto of what zhil has said.

[Gerbie]

When I was a member of IPC in a PA clone, I saw people around me willing to teach me the game. People with the skills and activity to be in a top alliance if they wanted to. When you play with people who are new to the game and you can teach them something this can be a reward in itself.

I think there are plenty of people out there willing to do this. And I don't see any real security risks. Spying on a low-ranked alliance is a waste of time if you are an experienced player.

[alch]

Wakey: the thread was discussed in a small and private forum by 3-4 people?
Karmulian asked to put it here and get more Real input, i dont think twating an idea because you think its wrong (and you are only 1 input) is right.
i think that the mass should give their own views, see what happen , what PAteam want to do with this.
its not i dont appreciate your input, its just that i would like to see more than 1 or 2 input.
And about what i am doing next round or if i will join mentor or not, its strictly private for now and do not have any link to this idea, this is a suggestion amongst many other in this forums.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by alch

Wakey: the thread was discussed in a small and private forum by 3-4 people?
Karmulian asked to put it here and get more Real input, i dont think twating an idea because you think its wrong (and you are only 1 input) is right.
i think that the mass should give their own views, see what happen , what PAteam want to do with this.
its not i dont appreciate your input, its just that i would like to see more than 1 or 2 input.
And about what i am doing next round or if i will join mentor or not, its strictly private for now and do not have any link to this idea, this is a suggestion amongst many other in this forums.

My problem with it being posted here is more of a problem with the Alliances Forum in general, Its used as a forum to discuse things out of reach of normal players and then when it doesnt get the responce people want over there its shoved over here in the hope your get the responces you want. You have to decide either ideas are idea that are only idea for alliances and hence they should be in that forum otherwise they are ideas that are for everyone and they should only appear here and not on both.

And yes I may only be one opinion however Its an opinion that actually looks at the true implications of the idea and not some pipe dream that ignores the problems

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

and what alch is or is not doign is irrelevant to the idea.

we all know there will be problems finding people to do the job, but that does nto affect the validity of the idea.

Yes it is relevent, if one of the main supporters of the idea ISNT willing to put his full force behind it then who else will and if you think that 'finding the people' has no effect on the validty is a rather idiotic view to take. Being able to get people of the required quality, and a fair few of them is the linchpin of the idea, the idea working is totally dependant on being able to find atleast 10 players with the following qualities

• Game Experiance and Plenty of it as they have to have a deep understanding of the game
• Alliance HC experiance for many rounds, and I mean a proper alliance.
• Some skill in the game. This is about the easiest requirement to fulfil
• Some Small alliance Experiance. if your helping small alliances you have to have some understanding of the unique circumstances they have. As Ive said elsewhere throw some of these big alliance HC's into a small alliance and they will have a fit as its a whole differnt set of circumstances
• Understanding of the Current community status. Zhil mentioned to me the other day how differnt he felt the game was from before and how he felt that his marginal success had a lot to do with the fact his name let him walk into any alliance. You cant just wheel out vetrans who havent played for rounds
• MOST importantly with this being offered as an 'official game service' and not just one of these things that players currently do as a side project the mentors have to be very active. if they need you you pretty much have to be there immeditaly.

Thats a pretty tough requirements you require people to meet to really be any real use without the aspect of having to cut all alliance and personal ties and be totally neutral.

If you cant get enough players who fulfil these requirements and are willing to cut all their ties then theres simply no point even discussing the idea because we are going to stick alliances with low quality mentors who are probally no better suited than the people running the alliance

[Kal]

wakey no one is going to commit to an idea unless it is fully approved by pa team.

This thread is not ehre ebcuase it got bad repsonces on the alliance forums, but ratehr becuase pa team think is has meritand what to know what a wider audience thinks.

As to your requirments for mentors, i don;t fully agree.

Yes, experiance is needsed of the game, yes skill at the game is needed etc

But I do not think actuall full on long term alliance HC experinace is needed, that coudl in fact be bad in some respects - what is needed is people with good problem solving skills and new ideas as well as people with experiance. We don;t want every single mentor being the same, we want variation in skills and ideas - we want a team that can work together etc.

EDIT: for the record, I have applied for a mentor job subject to the idea being approved and am more than willing to leave any alliance to do this as I think it will help the game improve and grow. I also think that I have the skills to do the job regardless of what you or anyone else may think.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by KalVirtus

wakey no one is going to commit to an idea unless it is fully approved by pa team.

This thread is not ehre ebcuase it got bad repsonces on the alliance forums, but ratehr becuase pa team think is has meritand what to know what a wider audience thinks.

As to your requirments for mentors, i don;t fully agree.

Yes, experiance is needsed of the game, yes skill at the game is needed etc

But I do not think actuall full on long term alliance HC experinace is needed, that coudl in fact be bad in some respects - what is needed is people with good problem solving skills and new ideas as well as people with experiance. We don;t want every single mentor being the same, we want variation in skills and ideas - we want a team that can work together etc.

EDIT: for the record, I have applied for a mentor job subject to the idea being approved and am more than willing to leave any alliance to do this as I think it will help the game improve and grow. I also think that I have the skills to do the job regardless of what you or anyone else may think.

First of all WHY does it require PATeams backing before people come forward for this, could it be that in reality the people who will come forward are in fact just looking for bragging rights because its basically an official position. I somehow thing so. If it was about improving the game you wouldnt require any kind of official title to undertake it.

As for your comment about not needing HC experiance, are you mad. HOW can anyone advise alliances on how to improve if they infact have never had any experiance in the situation. Its like asking a blind man to guide another blind man.

And I find it quite strange that you also think that mentors shouldnt all 'be the same'. What happens then when alliance a gets a mentor with all the skils and alliance b gets some inexperianced person whos sat in a top alliance for rounds but has never moved up past the level of member and whom only got the position because he was deemed to have good ideas. Alliance A is going to excel compared to Alliance B cos alliance a has someone helping who knows what hes doing, alliance b has someone who simply has lots of ideas but which none are proven and most of which fail. Great way of raising the standard that isnt it

On a final note, with the way you have shown your lack of knowledge of small alliances on this thread I would hate to be the alliance who gets stuck with you. You seem to have this idea that small alliances have it easy cos their players are too small to be hit which is so far from the truth.

[Kal]

i don;t copunt your alliance as small wakey... i count it as medium sized base don current sizes, so i woudl say u ahve no experiance either.

I ahve at least spoken to some HCs of the small alliances

and yes some command experinace is of course needed, i just disgaree that it has to be long term. I also don;t think u eccessairly actually need the best people around, u just need people who can give some advice that helps - its nto like we are trying to turn theese alliances into hard core super alliances.

The mentors woudln;t need to all be the same as they would be able to talk to each toher and discuss problems - this is a team not a group of individuals we are tlaking about.

And a little personal note, I am more than aware of how horrible it is to have continious incomings etc.

Anyway lets get back ontrack rather than truning this into a personal little war.

[mjrTorspo]

Let noobies join a pa-team alliance for their first round where they have the silly quest-thingies(init a roid! launch at the #1 planet! gimme 25 push-ups!) and some people guiding them... and i vote for kj to be the main mentor because he is so unbiased.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Forest

I would be against not being abel to join a big alliance though, as without it, the mentor would be pretty much dead.

so, the mentors need a big alliance to protect them, but the small players will miraculously be ok... this rather strikes to the heart of the problem

-mist

[Dark-Strider]

Good idea in theory.
But tbh I don't know how many players will be willing to give up being in an alliance to help people.
As most of the veterans are high up in decent alliances. Also people will always be biased to one alliance or another.

[Kal]

the mentors woudl ahve to be people who do not care about their own rnak and score anymore - there are such people.

It is obviosu that the mentors woudl ahve to be alliancless, other than the alliance theya re at the time helping.

There is of cours enothing to stop a big alliance asking for help - of course then pateam woudl have to pay close attention to there actually being a real problem that needs solving etc, ratehr than someone just wanting to take a break form mentoring and having a big alliance.

[Zh|l]

A certain other game sets up a "newbie arena" where everyone must play a limited game.

The game is quite complex, and the mission in this newbie arena is to gain 10 planets. Once that happens the account is locked out from gaining anything else. No advance in planets, nor research.

Translating that over.

Perhaps a seperate universe for just free planets, where there are objectives to fulfil. With people on hand to help them in that. Once the objectives are fulfilled, then thats it. Experienced players would have little reason to play, as the planet wouldnt be able to advance to a credible state. There would be no 'ranking' or anything like that.

I know this doesnt help to the mentor discussion, but it would provide a base for where newbies could learn the game without getting bashed to fk. Perhaps a program could be set up for those who then UPGRADE from this seperate universe.

Would make it far easier to manage, as currently I cant see how you can teach newbies. Where could you do it, most of them wont know how to use irc, and even so, a big channel full of people wont achieve anything as it would just get spammed.

Just an additional two pence.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by mist

so, the mentors need a big alliance to protect them, but the small players will miraculously be ok... this rather strikes to the heart of the problem

-mist

I thought the mentor wasnt going to get involved with the newbies or use them to his or her own benefit?

It's perfectly valid for a mentor to be in an alliance (at member/peon level) and still do mentoring. Infact, thats more beneficial as then there is very little reason for a mentor to NOT help out and NOT abuse the newbies for his/her personal gain.

Start cutting the mentors from alliances and not only do you force them to rely on the newbies to survive and thus absuing them, but you als affect the mentors ability to actually teach. No worthwhile planet means its hard to grasp the game itself (I didnt play PAX and so am learning this round stuff and I consider myself a 'vet'.). Additionally, cut the mentor from alliances and that defeats the point of that mentor being able to use their fame to help people out. I would find it very hard to keep up with stuff if not for being in an alliance where a community is discussing the game.

So imo, you are going to get bias whether you like it or not. You should concentrate on how to limit that bias, rather than stiffling the choice for any kind of assistance just because they have an alliance.

[wakey]

We kind of had that in PAX, just it really didnt work half the players stayed in the trail universe and never joined the main one . Why stay small in the main universe when you cna be big in the trail one

[Kal]

i guess the qesution is what are they mentoring:

if its how to be an HC, then they probably need to be allianceless

if its how to construct an attack fleet then wether they are in an allaince matetrs less


I would mdoel it on the support team:

the senior people with partial admin access are allianceless, but the standard peons can be in the support team can be in alliances