Best race for R10

[Ultimate Newbie]

As i have only played the Beta as a Cathaar, i am in no position to compare the other races, and the stats dont tell the whole story (particulary nowadays with 'Decent' armour etc).

What have been your impressions? What race will you choose and why? Which race will dominate (if any)?

[Chax]

I tried to post a reply to your old thread before you deleted it and made it a poll causing my long elaborate reply to be lost and due to the back button giving me invalid thread impossible to recall.

anyway, terran because their battleship has 2 uses
to flak constructions you need a battleship, and terran is the only race that has any reason to build one apart from flak for constructions

Anyway, this is individually. For an alliance or batlegroup I still maintain that a Xan/Zik combo is the best, ignoring the other races.

[dabult]

Xan, simply cause they 'feels' the best.

Was Terran last time and went for 90% Olympus, just to see how bad they could be. There is a max-limit to how many buildings you can destroy now though, so it wont be as easy to get good score if you want to go that path.

[Tactitus]

I don't like picking a race until the stats are finalized and I haven't heard if they're final yet (I'm half expecting Sythe's to be upgraded from 'Decent' to 'Spiffy'--or is that a downgrade? ). Anyway, I'd probably pick Xan because you don't need too many ship classes and the optimal resource ratio is easy to figure out.

[MAdnRisKy]

*should* be terran, for a whole bunch of reasons.

I actually think that since ship class has bugger all effect on eta (unless that's changed....) the only reason you'd want to use a zik xan team up is for the quicker aquirring of best ships.

Xan *were* the best when score balancing was high on killing for boosting, but now it's back to steady growth, the early high armour low kill power of terran's mid ships should measure up well anyway (since defence is just going to be a farce from the word go who cares if you'd kill a lot or not at all, they will have even more reason to run early on since no-one has researched structure killing tech and thus staying just lets them gain score by killing your ships, and fleeing is not going to mean the possibility of you losing score through structure loss). By the time the higher tech is in place you have CR so it's no biggie, and the terran CR eat everything :\

[General Martok]

I think zik might be the best race. They only need two shipclasses to target all, like xandathrii. They indeed kill a bit less, but they can live longer too. If it was still 3tick battles i'd be zik, now im not sure....

[Structural Integrity]

Originally posted by General Martok
I think zik might be the best race. They only need two shipclasses to target all, like xandathrii. They indeed kill a bit less, but they can live longer too. If it was still 3tick battles i'd be zik, now im not sure....

fully agree, apart from the 3 tick thing.

[Makhil]

Zik is the Terran of previous round, ok in everything, not great , no bad. The only weakness I see is their bomber ship being Fi class, with so many ships targetting Fi around the universe.

Xan, it was so great to play them with the old score system (early public beta 1). They're still easy to manage coz their ships cost an equal amount of res, and are the cheapest around. Their Fi/Fi ship is still the best around and it should be an advantage early. Then I think their CR and BS should be constructed coz they are real good ships (forget the all Fi/Co xan fleets from before).

Terran, if they keep low profile early concentrating on roids, ships and def they can reach the mid round in good position and climb to the top with their CR and BS.

Cath, i really wonder what they're doing in this round, it's a terran bis with less firepower and a tiny bit of more armour...

Depending on your style of play Zik, Terran and Xan are good choices. I'll go Xan coz their ships are cheaper thus i can build more

[Cochese]

I like Terran, though you have to have patience with them...their small ships are virtually useless so like Makhill said, the best bet is to keep a low profile until you have Capital-class ships--then unleash the pain upon the universe.

[Andy_r]

One thing that's not clear unless you are a beta tester...

There are just 3 main steps on the shipbuilding techtree, one gets you fighters, the next frigates, and the final one gets you cruisers AND battleships all at once (the final structure-targetting ships are a 4th step).

In addition, there is no sequnce of research then construction then research etc., you can construct the factories at any time, so they can be built in parallel with the relevant research.

This means that from a fighter-only universe to battleships appearing can take less than 90 ticks, so don't put too much emphasis on the 'mid-game' abilities of any race!

[Ultimate Newbie]

I think that i will throw myself onto the fire and be the only Strategy person to go Cath.

This is because everyone thinks that they are going to get steamrolled etc, and i intend to prove them right!

Obviously, this sacrifice is for the benifit of strategy .

[Andy_r]

oops

having just got my cruisers/battleships...

you actually get the structure specialist ship too with that research.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Andy_r
oops

having just got my cruisers/battleships...

you actually get the structure specialist ship too with that research.

I was wondering about that when i first read it actually... I remember building some Templars and Champions at the same time. i dismissed it as either doing an extra ship research without thinking or it changed in the intermission.

unusually, i assumed that you were right. I'll know not to do that again mate

[Andy_r]

If there is one thing these forums should have taught you by now, it's that actually being right comes a poor second to appearing to be right!

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Andy_r
If there is one thing these forums should have taught you by now, it's that actually being right comes a poor second to appearing to be right!

I know that.... just look at my columns for the last few rounds...

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
I think that i will throw myself onto the fire and be the only Strategy person to go Cath.

This is because everyone thinks that they are going to get steamrolled etc, and i intend to prove them right!

Obviously, this sacrifice is for the benifit of strategy .

Be sure to keep a log of your experiences... for posterity... to laugh at.

[Gerbie]

I voted xan. A good start is very important. As the beta has not lived to see a full round terran might take over. I have little experience with ziks. Their covert ops abilities are of less use in the real round (less resources will be stacked).

I intend to go cath myself. I hate long researches. I want it all and asap.

[Narziss]

Xan OFC

it's easy to calc when u init. your roids hehe...

[furball]

Terrans are a very good race: I'll say that now. Their best ships are CR/BS (under-targetted) with good armour. However, damage isn't their strong point and could struggle research-wise in the early game (first 150 ticks).

They can quickly get to CR/BS in under 100 ticks - but this is at the neglect of other things like ETA reductions and roids. Hardcore players will be fine (probably) but most people won't.

Cathaar will never get far in the game for good active players (but are a good race for inactives). Sorry Sovvy :P

Xans look nice on the stats - 3 * excellent ships for damage - 2 targetting FI, one targetting FR. All of their others have 'good' ratings (except for the siege weapon ofc). And of course, they have equal resource ratios for everything. So - why not pick them? well, although ofc we have no proof, according to spinner their armour is the equivalent of wet toilet paper, and not the luxury stuff either....

I chose Ziks instead, the jack of all trades. They have a nice FI/FR fleet that targets all classes (Dagger/Scythe(?)/Rapier/Scimiter/Gladius/Stilletto) and a kickass siege weapon (the Stilletto). Decent damage, decent armour - good enough ships for everything. Research is quicker than for some of the other races, and you can order ships in 4 ticks (good if you wake up, unable to get defence but have stockpiled resources...hehe)Problems could be the disturbance factor in roiding, since both FI and FR are heavily targetted - not much defence needed for 1 tick attacks to stop roids being lost?

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Nonentity
I chose Ziks instead, the jack of all trades. They have a nice FI/FR fleet that targets all classes (Dagger/Scythe(?)/Rapier/Scimiter/Gladius/Stilletto) and a kickass siege weapon (the Stilletto). Decent damage, decent armour - good enough ships for everything. Research is quicker than for some of the other races, and you can order ships in 4 ticks (good if you wake up, unable to get defence but have stockpiled resources...hehe)Problems could be the disturbance factor in roiding, since both FI and FR are heavily targetted - not much defence needed for 1 tick attacks to stop roids being lost?

I ended up voting Terran, because i have some misgivings about Zik's E cost (though i suppose that goes for M with the Terrans, but Zik vs Zik battles [get get more E roids] will be messy :\), and also your point about alot of units targeting FI/FR (thus disturbance and difficult roiding) is quite valid imo.

For some reason, i also have think inkling that Spinner has overestimated Xan's armour in the stats - tbh i think its weaker than it is displayed. At least, my Advocates (with poor killing ability) were doing a fine job of smearing a Xan attacker....

Xans are a bit sus :P

[furball]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
I ended up voting Terran, because i have some misgivings about Zik's E cost (though i suppose that goes for M with the Terrans, but Zik vs Zik battles [get get more E roids] will be messy :\)

As a Zik i'm coping fine on this ratio in the beta:

Resource Type Asteroids Extraction Mines *Bonus Total
METAL 101 25250 1000 0 26250
CRYSTAL 101 25250 1000 0 26250
EONIUM 116 29000 6000 0 35000

It's not too hard to be honest - just supplement your overall roid income with mines (one of the most useful constructions for anyone but Xan). I haven't roided much but I think that with low capping at the moment, mines are good for balancing your income.

Also...you need to keep the two resources that aren't as needed in balance! (like me) Otherwise you end up with too much of one and no way to spend it (don't talk to me about trading...25%? ffs)

[Sun_Tzu]

I'll go terran, but not for any stats-reasons.

Quite honestly, if anyone starts to talk about best race and mentions that "I like xans since I can get more of them" they shouldn't even be let to post! fs! the stats presented are in efficiency! The price of the ship doesn't count for ****e!

Also, whatever bright sob said "I likes xans and ziko since they target all within 2 classes" should get their head out their arse and take another look at the stats, EVERY FRIGGIN RACE TARGETS ALL RACES WITHIN 2 CLASSES! For Terran it's cr/bs and for cathaar it's fr/cr, it's not that hard to work out ffs...

Anyways, my only reason for taking terran was because so few were speaking of them after the betas, all were going on about xans and zikos and I figured that leaves a whole big enough for my cr to get through...

[Wandows]

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
Anyways, my only reason for taking terran was because so few were speaking of them after the betas, all were going on about xans and zikos and I figured that leaves a whole big enough for my cr to get through...

the last beta proved it was easy to roid with CR or/and BS (in the beta universe), i know quite some ppl who switched from one of the other races to Terrans after the "show" they gave in the last beta where most of the top ranked planets where infact terran.

I have chosen Zik simply cause i liked playing them in beta, reasonable damage done and reasonable armour. And i never been much of a fan of CR / BS fleet simply because i like numbers more then i do small amount of ships. I find it more satisfying to launch 1000 Fi then 100 CR for example (eventhough they will resource wise perform the same).... hence it was either Xan or Zik for me... but since i found Xan ships to die to much (from what i have seen) i chosen Zik =)

[Ultimate Newbie]

I think it would be interesting to see what proportion of races are in the top 10 at the beginning middle and end of the round.

Anyone got an amp and 10 scans?

[dabult]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
I think it would be interesting to see what proportion of races are in the top 10 at the beginning middle and end of the round.

Anyone got an amp and 10 scans?

Read that again.

Think..

Think....

(now remember this is r10, the new PA, not the old)






Getting it yet?

[General Martok]

o_0 old habits die slowly.... But I have 10 k of each and 2 amps, lets see....

Tick 104

7:5:1 Xandathrii Lady Advisor flight of fantasy
2:10:7 Zikonian Lord Advisor Easy Come of Hard To Go
8:2:1 Zikonian Lord Advisor The Ancient HurQ of QonoS *
7:8:8 Terran Lady Advisor Lina Inverse of Dragonslave
13:6:1 Cathaar Lord Advisor PLVTO of ORKVS
8:8:4 Terran Lord Advisor Das Fhurer of Battlehurst
1:3:1 Terran Lord Advisor Evil Critic of Films
2:8:9 Cathaar Lord Advisor Jaffejoffer of Rappahandia
9:1:2 Xandathrii Lord Advisor Reign of Glory
4:9:4 Cathaar Lord Advisor Kazactra of Rughta Falls

3 cathaar, 3 terran, 2 xan and 2 zik. Kina equal still. I would have expected more cathaars btw due faster research...







* he stole my homeplanet ffs, though spelled wrong, should be Quo'nos

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by dabult
(now remember this is r10, the new PA, not the old)

I'm not getting your point mate. I thought it would be worthwhile to see which races perform the best at various stages of the round. In the past, as you would know dabult, Xandathrii tended to perform better in the beginning of the round whilst Terrans became stronger later. The information from these early/mid/late round trends is still relevent in R10, imo. I know the top 10 are deduced by score, but remember that score gives you rank. I fail to see the point in having the largest (networth) planet if you are not the #1 planet...

Getting it yet?

Nope :\

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by dabult
Read that again.

Think..

Think....

(now remember this is r10, the new PA, not the old)

Getting it yet?

Time for me to spoil the fun. Check the universe rankings. Then check the galaxy overview for the #1 planet. Now read it. What does it say?
1 flight fantasy Xan 344 72.824 23.340 PSTUN

What do you think Xan means?

[Supernova9]

Gerbie, UN, I believe he was referring to the fact that the scanning system has changed, not the point of checking race proportions.

[dabult]

No Supernova, i was referring to what Gerbie says.




Only i've been busy today, or i would have replied something witty to UN's reply there before you lot came


Getting it now Sovereign?



oh and..um..Martok, did you really scan the planets to find out what race they are?

[General Martok]

Ehm.... yes :-P

/mode #strategy +n00b Martok

I thought it only showed the races in your own gal. With the scanning I opened 2 pages, 1 universe and 1 scanning, never looked @ the galaxy page of the other gals.....

[dabult]

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Time for me to spoil the fun. Check the universe rankings. Then check the galaxy overview for the #1 planet. Now read it. What does it say?
1 flight fantasy Xan 344 72.824 23.340 PSTUN

What do you think Xan means?

Its times like these when i just sit back and point at my nickname...

[Gerbie]

It took me a while too to realise you did not need to scan. I just answered the question because I was proud I discovered it.

[Makhil]

on pt 171, top 10 shows :
- 4 Xans
- 4 Cath
- 1 Terran
- 1 Zik
quite different from the vote, seems like having a good armour or a good firepower is better than being average in both atm. I thought Zik would fare better. Interesting to see if Terran with their best ships can take their revenge.

[Wandows]

Originally posted by Makhil
on pt 171, top 10 shows :
- 4 Xans
- 4 Cath
- 1 Terran
- 1 Zik
quite different from the vote, seems like having a good armour or a good firepower is better than being average in both atm. I thought Zik would fare better. Interesting to see if Terran with their best ships can take their revenge.

thing is atm the making kills part for Xan gives them lotsa score @ the start (easy roids, defence afraid of heavy losses) so its not to hard for them to grow, cathaar have a fast research which gives them the advantage to start faster, i expect them to drop later on. i don't know about zik, but i think more will be rising up soon, same goes for terran when their CR fleets start flying around

[dabult]

I do believe Terran will get a much bigger piece of the ranks later, starting soon. I myself went pretty fast for big ships, only researched 100 roids and then it was ships ahoi. 'We' have only been able to attack for 2 days now, and that is with small fleets, since 'we' intentionally dropped behind quite a lot with roids/value and all.

And its also safe to assume that most highly ranked Xans atm have anti-fi heavy fleets, will be interesting to see how they can cope with Cerebus and co.

[Makhil]

Cerberus is probably the best terran ship, but it can't do much against FR.
Xans will have Fi fleets for Cath, FR fleets for Terran and Zik i think they can maintain their high ranking (especially if they don't research CR and BS now).

[General Martok]

BTW i think top10 is too small for race-stats. I think you should look @ top20..

top10:
terran 2
cath 2
xan 3
zik 4

top20:
terran 3
cath 9
xan 4
zik 4

Looking at the top10 only it looks like the age of cathaar is over. But then look at top20....

BTw does anyone have the time top do top50 or 100?

[Yan-Je]

yeh, in my oppinion, Zik does give a slight edge on top of others.
Well firstly, they are an all-rounder race with ships not focusing on either armour nor dmg, but abit of both. Zik Fi are prob the best by quite a substancial margin (tested against other fighters already). So they're good to start off.
With Zik, u do not need to get heavy factory until every other race has theirs because their Frigs and fighters are great. however, u'd either stick to fighters or frigs, no point having both classes really. I'd personally start off wit fighters and then build 100% frigs from then on and then get the broadsword some time down the track against BS. Stileto (the zik anti-structure ship) is prob not the best of the anti-strutures, they'd die too easily first as fighters, and then with only average armour.

However, they're also back'uped by Excelent stealth and production bonuses and etc. so i'd recommend Zik.