Planetarion Forums

Andy_r · 28 May 2003, 10:30

so, I check in the manual to see how many amps I need to stand a good change of completing the sector scan quest early on, and I see:

Quote:

The success of any scan (not Astro Scans) is calculated as follows :
30 * ((Amps / Asteroids) - (Target Reflectors/ Target Asteroids)).

well, assuming I'm not unlucky enough to pick someone who built reflectors at tick 1, we can plug the numbers in and get...

30 * ((0/24)-(0/24)) = 30

I'm assuming this means 30% rather than 30:1

if I wait until I build 50 amps it's

30 * ((50/32)-(0/24)) = 46

Not much gain, so you are better off buying extra sectors.

Conclusion: The best you can have at tick 7 is a 60% chance of completing the quest, so there will be a LOT of annoyed players out there who bought 1 or 2 sector scans before ticks start 1 and didn't get them through.

black-eyed boy · 28 May 2003, 10:42

Come on, you werent too good at maths in school were you?

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy_r
30 * ((0/24)-(0/24)) = 30

30 * 0 = 0

You can't scan successfully with zero amps.

But with 48 amps you indeed have exactly 60% chance of scan getting through.

-QS- · 28 May 2003, 11:05

ROFLMAO

hyfe · 28 May 2003, 11:37

incidentally; its the same formula that's used for roidscans too

Baco · 28 May 2003, 12:31

24 amps (and 24 roids) gives u 30% of success if ur oponent don't have reflectors...so assuming he doesn't u need 2X more amps than the number of roids to have a 60% chance of success which is quite good already, so my advice is wait a bit before ordering that scan

isildurx · 28 May 2003, 12:55

does this mean we should init 1 or 2 of our first roids in eonium?

Andy_r · 28 May 2003, 13:27

Quote:

Originally posted by black-eyed boy
[b]Come on, you werent too good at maths in school were you?

30 * 0 = 0

You can't scan successfully with zero amps.

Well spotted, I was good at maths, but it was a LONG time ago :-) I cancelled both sides of the equation and assumed the result was nothing at all, but as you point out it's 0.

Anyway, it looks like it will be quite a while before that quest gets done, and there may be a lot of wasted scans and annoyed players out there!

Andy_r · 28 May 2003, 13:33

Quote:

Originally posted by isildurx
does this mean we should init 1 or 2 of our first roids in eonium?

No. When things get going you'll be needing to buy a mixture of amps and roid scans, which requires lots more C than E.

Andy_r · 28 May 2003, 13:39

Quote:

Originally posted by hyfe
incidentally; its the same formula that's used for roidscans too

No, it's not. When scanning for roids, you don't have an opponent with reflectors.

The manual says the Roid scanning formula is:

30 * (Number of Wave Amplifiers / Present Number of Asteroids)

Another minor point is that Spinner once said in Creator's Hour that scan success is actually capped to a 99% maximum and a 1% minimum chance so there is always the possibility of unexpected success (or failure), although I've not seen any edvidence of this happening.

Tactitus · 28 May 2003, 14:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy_r
Another minor point is that Spinner once said in Creator's Hour that scan success is actually capped to a 99% maximum and a 1% minimum chance so there is always the possibility of unexpected success (or failure), although I've not seen any edvidence of this happening.

I remember that statement. One of the many bits of lore that never made it into the manual. :/

I've seen a few scans in the past that succeeded (failed) in spite of impossible (sure) odds, although it's impossible to say if they were due to deliberately finite odds or Just Another Bug.

hyfe · 28 May 2003, 16:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy_r
No, it's not. When scanning for roids, you don't have an opponent with reflectors.

The manual says the Roid scanning formula is:

30 * (Number of Wave Amplifiers / Present Number of Asteroids)

sorry

'for all practical purposes in the beginning' the formula is the same.. good luck finding someone with reflectors.

Quote:

Another minor point is that Spinner once said in Creator's Hour that scan success is actually capped to a 99% maximum and a 1% minimum chance so there is always the possibility of unexpected success (or failure), although I've not seen any edvidence of this happening.

I haven't seen it happen either, nor have i heard of any scanner ever complaining about a scan getting blocked for no obvious reason; thus i don't believe it.

Either way: delaying it is silly... By getting one sector scan through, you get two roids, and you doesn't even have to init them. Ofc, I'd advice building them one and one (maybe two first try) so you don't get stuck with useless scans.... Just think of it as an asteroid scan that gives you two inited crystal roids, and the entire thing becomes easier to compare

MrL_JaKiri · 28 May 2003, 18:04

Erm, don't forget that one amp blows up per successful scan, how are you meant to to it with 0 anyway?

hyfe · 28 May 2003, 19:13

obviously; you do the sector scan at the same time as you start regular scanning
(yes, i know; my post was exceptionally badly written)

Andy_r · 28 May 2003, 23:20

Quote:

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Erm, don't forget that one amp blows up per successful scan, how are you meant to to it with 0 anyway?

simple, you would end up with -1 amps.

F0rk · 29 May 2003, 06:59

couple of peeps mentioned they could be unlucky by picking someone who built reflectors to scan.

if u scan yerself then there is no doubt that there are no reflectors (assuming u aint daft enough to build any when in protection)

MrL_JaKiri · 29 May 2003, 07:42

1:1:1!

NEWSBOT3 · 30 May 2003, 20:44

scan yourself.

Colt · 30 May 2003, 20:47

Quote:

Originally posted by F0rk
couple of peeps mentioned they could be unlucky by picking someone who built reflectors to scan.

if u scan yerself then there is no doubt that there are no reflectors (assuming u aint daft enough to build any when in protection)

may seem silly heh, but wtf would you ask someone else to sector scan fro you to complete your quest heh???

PS - if thats not what your on about then i apologise as i havent read the whole thread

Summerflame · 30 May 2003, 21:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Colt
may seem silly heh, but wtf would you ask someone else to sector scan fro you to complete your quest heh???

PS - if thats not what your on about then i apologise as i havent read the whole thread

Nah, he really meant to scan yourself. Just use the Link on your Gal-screen for instance.

Telest · 31 May 2003, 15:57

Scanning luck & starting plans won't be that big of a deal this round anyway, since you have quite high base production (4750 of each with mines + 6 roids).

Even if you fail due to extremely bad luck your first batch of scans, you'll still produce enough crystal+eonium per tick to quickly compensate.

Expect quite a bit less of "bad-scan-whineage" this round. Of course, some will have bad luck, but the impact will be far less than during a round with 3 roids and no mines to start off with.

Andy_r · 31 May 2003, 16:10

Actually I expect a lot more bad-scan whining, since we are starting with 24 roids. There will be a lot of people failing the sector scan quest and getting 0 roids at tick 7 because they don't have sufficient amps to compensate for the extra roids.

Gayle29uk · 1 Jun 2003, 13:34

Quote:

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
1:1:1!

So many people use 1:1:1 for all quests, if I were spinner I'd give 1:1:1 1k reflecs from the start just to be perverse

Chax · 1 Jun 2003, 13:57

The obvious thing to do is to scan whoever has most roids in the universe.

SYMM · 1 Jun 2003, 14:37

Target-roids have no effect on the outcome of a scan, if they have no reflectors, so its unlikely to make a difference.

smeg9 · 1 Jun 2003, 18:30

Hmm, if only 1:1:1 had no roids.....

Then it would make life much easier. how many amps do you think we should build before attempting 'the scan'

HAL-9000 · 1 Jun 2003, 21:33

Quote:

Originally posted by smeg9
Hmm, if only 1:1:1 had no roids.....

Then it would make life much easier. how many amps do you think we should build before attempting 'the scan'

Why would it make it easier? Surely the more roids he has (and the less reflectors) the more likely the chance of getting through?

[30 * ((Amps / Asteroids) - (Target Reflectors/ Target Asteroids))]

And if you want to be absolutely certain of getting through u can build 80 amps and scan a planet with no reflectors. Personally I think my budget doesn't quite cover those costs so I'm going for a slightly less that certain chance.

MrL_JaKiri · 2 Jun 2003, 04:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
So many people use 1:1:1 for all quests, if I were spinner I'd give 1:1:1 1k reflecs from the start just to be perverse

The inactive 1 1 2 then?

General Martok · 2 Jun 2003, 09:14

Quote:

Originally posted by smeg9
Hmm, if only 1:1:1 had no roids.....

Then it would make life much easier. how many amps do you think we should build before attempting 'the scan'

40 amps give you 50% chance, 50 > 62,5% , 60 > 75%. I think i just order 2 scans and try it with about 40-45 amps, giving a chance of 75%-80% chance of one of them coming through....

Gayle29uk · 2 Jun 2003, 21:55

Quote:

Originally posted by General Martok
40 amps give you 50% chance, 50 > 62,5% , 60 > 75%. I think i just order 2 scans and try it with about 40-45 amps, giving a chance of 75%-80% chance of one of them coming through....

Tick 12, 48 amps, 2 sec scans.

TheShadowMan · 3 Jun 2003, 09:02

tick 10 40 amps got it first time
but fecked up the 4 astro scans only got 1 roid ah well

HAL-9000 · 3 Jun 2003, 09:57

ffs i had 38 amps and did 6 scans - all blocked. Unbebloodylievable! Strangely enough though i did 18 roid scans and got....18 roids! Something is very, very wrong.

mens · 3 Jun 2003, 14:40

maybe the guy you sectorscanned accidentaly bought blockers....

HAL-9000 · 3 Jun 2003, 17:40

Nope he didn't he is a mate of mine and hasn't even got any roids save the 24 he started with lol. Oh well chance is not always a fine thing clearly :/