My ideas for next round, <Rant><egosentric>

[hyfe]

I'm bored again.........




-- 1. salvage

I'm for bringing back a toned down version of R4 salvage. It was great fun, and a major boost to the smaller alliances. Granted, r4 salvage was way too high, but imo the creators did a great mistake when removing it instead of decreasing it. Having rules that actually promote teamplay is a necessity for the survival of this game IMHO.

---- 1.1 Defending planet salvage:
Set this high, damn high, It'll make it a lot easier to continue after getting bashed. My suggestion for a number would be 50% salvage (in total)

---- 1.2. Defenders salvage:
All defenders gain 20% salvage on their own losses.

---- 1.3 Attackers salvage:
All defenders (not sure wether to include the planet under attack or not) gain 10% salvage from attackers losses.


-- 2 Attacking/Defending ETA

Tottaly flat UNI, ETA 9 everywhere with BS. (except in-gal ofc). Stick with Co-ords in two/three dimension as we have now even so.


-- 3. E-Cost

Let the E-cost be largely dependant on co-ords, and distance. This will affect larger players in a much greater exctent than smaller players, and may thus force the universe into *some* regionizing (which is a good thing imo), but not too much (which is a bad thing), in addition to making it perfectly possible to run a small alliance with members spread out.


-- 4. Attackers shooting at eachother etc.

Stuff any ideas like this. Co-operation between groups, co-operation between friends are what keeps this game dynamic. Doing features like this which are meant to reward co-operation within small groups (as opposed to large groups) will most likely just ruin the fluid dynamics of this game imo. Attacking is so a part of the core of the game, and keeping it dynimac and simple is important for keeping things rolling imo.

Just keep combat as it is.


-- 5. Being only able to defend people in same alliance / with same tag etc.

See #4


-- 6. Scans

See previos thread


-- 7. Fleet stats

Modify them to make it be even easier to attack, and harder to defend. With random round and defenders salvage defence will be easy to come by anyways. Up all the POD armours significantly (so they are atleast 2X above normal ships), but decrease their EMP-resitance.

Bring back cargo ships, (with loads of armor!)


-- 8. Honor System

Scrap it. Call me paranoid or cynical, but there is no way in hell anybody will be able to make a fair non-exploitable system for this. And if you are mad enough to consider it, share the details with the community for mass critiscm asap so we can scrap the idea once and for all!

[Chax]

-- 1. salvage
20% of all losses benefit the defending planet
10% of all losses shared among defenders based on fleetscore defending. (Including the defending planets ships, but not PDS)


-- 2 Attacking/Defending ETA

Tottaly flat UNI, ETA 10 everywhere outside gal with attacking BS. Let us sleep/work 8h. Stick with Co-ords in two/three dimension as we have now even so. Return the OB defense. Change travel times in the shipstats so that they're listed as the galaxy traveltime.


-- 3. E-Cost

What hyfe said sounds fine to me


-- 4. Attackers shooting at eachother etc.

IF total attacking score > x% of target planet score they should fire at eachother unless part of either same hardcoded alliance or same galaxy.


-- 5. Being only able to defend people in same alliance / with same tag etc.

Well, this point should have been before #4 to get the right flow shouldn't it? Hardcoded alliances, go for it. we've tried without them lets try with them.


-- 6. Scans

See my reply in previos thread


-- 7. Fleet stats

Preferably I'd love the return of r2 stats or something similar, but to be realistic, r3 stats with a ghost that targeted FR DE would be nice. It would make the tara usable.


-- 8. Honor System

Take a look at Utopia for a working honor system.

[MAdnRisKy]

Hyfe's salvage suggestions work, but defending planet should not recieve attackers ship salvage, only the other defenders. The exact percentages can be played with.

I would go with Hyfe over chax for much of the points save the eta and the suggestion for listing ships as galaxy travel time is nice, provided it was made clear ON THE CONSTRUCTION PAGE that travel tech influenced only outside galaxy travel times (and these woudl need to be adjusted).

as for fleets, HECK NO to going back to rnd 3. I like being one of the few people to really understand how the races work, I think the effort i put into it should pay off, there has to be SOME skill in this game after all, otherwise it really is just numbers and not fleet comp.

(daggres pods to roid add frigs if evil, ghosts BS to bash, spids to defend that's wank imo as it's far too simple)

[SYMM]

While in theory, having the stats should benefit those with a higher understanding, that is in practice not the case. All it needs is one person in an alliance to tell the others what to build, and that alliance is sorted (assuming the person knows what they are talking about ). For new, alliance-less players, who may have just as little idea on what to build as someone in one of the bigger alliances, they don't have the advantage of alliance-advice. If people kept their strategies to themselves, i'm all for complicated stats, but otherwise there is simply no point, except to make it harder for new players.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by SYMM
For new, alliance-less players, who may have just as little idea on what to build as someone in one of the bigger alliances, they don't have the advantage of alliance-advice.

They have this forum and #strategy to picj things up from. How do you think I learnt in R7 before getting into an alliance?

[Mi5]

even though the stats were simple in rnd3 i still built the wrong ships, started the wrong way by initing the wrong roids and doing the wrong r/c. during the rnd tho i always read strategy forum and listened to advise i got from gal m8s and friends, so i learned slowly how to play. Learning how to play is part of the fun tbh (yeah i know i know, pa isnt fun)

[SYMM]

As both of you seemed to miss the point entirely, i will clarify.

I like being one of the few people to really understand how the races work, I think the effort i put into it should pay off, there has to be SOME skill in this game after all, otherwise it really is just numbers and not fleet comp.

While its nice to understand the stats, its not necessary. THere are people to do it for you.
Those who put the effort in are often not the ones who benefit most.
Therefore, making stats complicated does not benefit those who put the effort in. It benefits their friends.
Therefore, there is no point making them complicated.

[hyfe]

Complicated stats also makes it much more challenging to arrange attacks & defenses. Being BC/DC without races around would be boring and tedious. Atleast personally, I lived for those moments you could cover large incomings easily because the attacker made a mistake (old example: roaches against tula/mantis/scorpion)

[hyfe]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
Hyfe's salvage suggestions work, but defending planet should not recieve attackers ship salvage, only the other defenders. The exact percentages can be played with.

Agree. It makes the whole idea a *lot* less abusable. It'd mean that for cheaters to gain by suiciding multiplanets on themselves, they'd actually had to spend a fleetslot on it. Making it more visible, and more tedious.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by hyfe
Complicated stats also makes it much more challenging to arrange attacks & defenses. Being BC/DC without races around would be boring and tedious. Atleast personally, I lived for those moments you could cover large incomings easily because the attacker made a mistake (old example: roaches against tula/mantis/scorpion)

Thank you for beating me to that. Because it's been my experience that even a lot of alliance BCs are ****e when it comes to spotting and manipulating the relevant weaknesses of each style of attacking fleet. And even if I tell everyone how to make their fleet, half of them don't listen (LO CYPHER )

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by hyfe

---- 1.1 Defending planet salvage:
Set this high, damn high, It'll make it a lot easier to continue after getting bashed. My suggestion for a number would be 50% salvage (in total)

And/or you could use my War Loans idea - has the same function in mind (Described in point 7 of the NOTEs section of http://home.iprimus.com.au/rourkek/Production46.html)
Otherwise i agree with Salvage - make it worth continuously defending etc.

-- 2 Attacking/Defending ETA

Tottaly flat UNI, ETA 9 everywhere with BS. (except in-gal ofc). Stick with Co-ords in two/three dimension as we have now even so.

I would prefer an BA ETA of 10 at the lowest, as this would let me launch before going to school and recalling before the first battle tick, as opposed to having to resort to prayer (as in all past rounds). I know this is a bit selfish, but other people could use the sleep etc .

-- 3. E-Cost

Let the E-cost be largely dependant on co-ords, and distance. This will affect larger players in a much greater exctent than smaller players, and may thus force the universe into *some* regionizing (which is a good thing imo), but not too much (which is a bad thing), in addition to making it perfectly possible to run a small alliance with members spread out.

I agree, but the differences in E cost should be huge - like really large. 200%, 300% 500% more than in gal for in C/ P/ universe. This way, if you really want to expand at anything resembling a growth rate, you have to pay for it in fuel. E would also begin to resemble a limiting factor for a much greater %age of the universe. Though i have a tingling in my mind that Spinner said that E wouldnt be used anymore, or there would be a new type of fuel or some such. I think there is something in store for E.

-- 4. Attackers shooting at eachother etc.

Stuff any ideas like this. Co-operation between groups, co-operation between friends are what keeps this game dynamic. Doing features like this which are meant to reward co-operation within small groups (as opposed to large groups) will most likely just ruin the fluid dynamics of this game imo. Attacking is so a part of the core of the game, and keeping it dynamic and simple is important for keeping things rolling imo.

I agree. Large bash fleets are the result of stagnation, not the cause. If you remove or significantly reduce the causes of stagnation then there is no point in having attacking ships fire on eachother short of being a pain in the arse. Also, if it was based on ship numbers, this would hurt Xans and favour CR caths.

If done well, i think that defending within the tag could be effective, however. Though this might result in one block all tagging the same thing, and another block doing the same thing, and then if Tags cant be changed we have some serious dramas (as it would be far too difficult if a block broke up etc). still, i thikn it has potential as an idea, but i dont think it can be implemented effectively, and thus should be ignored.

-- 7. Fleet stats

Modify them to make it be even easier to attack, and harder to defend. With random round and defenders salvage defence will be easy to come by anyways. Up all the POD armours significantly (so they are atleast 2X above normal ships), but decrease their EMP-resitance.

I must disagree with you here. Not being able to defend yourself or your mates with a certain amount of assistance means that the game will become too fluid, and i think that the universe's roids will end up in the (reletively) stable massive planets very quickly, as they will have the numbers of planets to be able to muster sufficient poorer defensive ships. Though i must agree to an extent - R4 again wouldnt be the best outcome either.

I must, of course, agree with you on the Cargoship idea .



What i would like to see is a change in the way fleets move. atm, you must launch a fleet to a target, and once it recalls it goes back home for your to launch it again. What i would like to see is a sort of system where a fleet can go from aa:bb:cc to dd:ee:ff to gg:hh:ii etc, however if your fleet runs out of fuel, you loose your ships. This can be compensated by having a new 'attack' option called Logistics where you load up some cargoes and they follow your fleet to keep them supplied (taking E with them from your stockpile). This, imo, would make the game very interesting, and with a universe base ETA of 10 then there will be no reason to fjear someone just springing you with a fleet that was going elsewhere. I think this system would work best with a graphic of a galaxy (symbolising the universe) that you can click on like a Red Alert interface, though this is fraught with difficulties and a better system of command and control would be required.

It would bring some interesting factors wrt fleet composition and calculations too (perhaps leading to bashing? - discuss).