With mil scans unchanged and ob still in...

[Iceaxe]

Xand has to be all but eliminated for everyone NOT to use it.

After seeing the success xands had with the r8 system why would you go any other race without major stat changes?

[Colt]

Indeed

I think that the creatrs have made a BAD decision in not removing overburn/changed mil scans back to how they were in rd7. Lets hope that they come to their senses b4 round starts

[Iceaxe]

I'm praying with ya mate.

[Atamur]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
Xand has to be all but eliminated for everyone NOT to use it.

After seeing the success xands had with the r8 system why would you go any other race without major stat changes?

especially if cluster and parallel get faster eta for attacks...

[Iceaxe]

Well they haven't said how cluster/parallel will work did they?

It could be that you get -1 to attack incluster and -1 for defence in parallel but not both... (one can hope) :/

[Colt]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
(one can hope) :/

sums it up really

If they deside to keep OB def and attack in the game, they should really think about making xan a little weaker. Or else we will see a 99% xan univers

[isildurx]

indeed the creators has got to weaken the xan stats, and have to reduce em by a substancial amount.

ofc if theres so many xans, one is tempted to go cath, as cath owns xan.... but still....

[Silva baby]

one would be tempted in the early game to not even go for black widows
just stop at spiders beetles and scarabs and go for timetravel or something

[-QS-]

Xans have:

- ETA-advantage (with pods and they don`t have to research/construct more than CO, so they can achieve travel time researches faster)

- Cloaked ships

- Best FI

- ...

I considered going cath, but with OB def/att + parallel+cluster + mil scans not changed, they will have to make xans VERY weak if they don`t like to see 80% xans

Bah, I considered going cath, but with OB-def this would mean a round with no sleep, because I had to stand up every hour to check if I have OB-xan-incs. My friends will surely not scan me every single hour

[-QS-]

Please participate in the poll

[Sun Pin]

im thinking about going cathaar aswell
due to their beetle

[Colt]

Beetle > xan Fi

[Troll]

Well If I was the creators (obviously I am not) I would tweak the xans as such

a) Sentinal loses target ALL
b) Vulture to standard frig travel time (eta 8)
c) Costs of ships should require equal or close to equal cyrstal to metal ratios
d) Double the current E required to launch their shisp making ovb more expensive for the xans since they have many other advantages

Perhaps all 4 together may be extreme but I think this would bring other races up close to the same level as Xan.

Just random thoughts ofc

[Iceaxe]

I'd rather just remove OB and go back to r7 stats. :/

[Cochese]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
I'd rather just remove OB and go back to r7 stats. :/

That was my suggestion.

Zeus didn't seem to think it was a good idea

[Troll]

I agree with Zeus

what can I say the god is correct IMO

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Cochese
That was my suggestion.

Zeus didn't seem to think it was a good idea

| have to admit, R7 stats were good. Admittedly I was a newbie but they seemed balanced to me.

[-QS-]

Stats were okay R7, Zikos had a disadvantage cause steeling ships were different classes than their primary target, but they were pretty good.
R8 simply had too good xans...

[Benneh]

I was gonna go Terran again, i was last rd but it was very hard to roid with all the sentinals flying around.

Xan it is then :|

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by Troll
Well If I was the creators (obviously I am not) I would tweak the xans as such

a) Sentinal loses target ALL
b) Vulture to standard frig travel time (eta 8)
c) Costs of ships should require equal or close to equal cyrstal to metal ratios
d) Double the current E required to launch their shisp making ovb more expensive for the xans since they have many other advantages

Perhaps all 4 together may be extreme but I think this would bring other races up close to the same level as Xan.

Just random thoughts ofc

alittle too extreme imo, i wouldn't go xan if this happened :/

[Cochese]

They need a reason to build bigger ships than Fighters/Corvettes, and a reason not to build only Fighters/Corvettes.

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by Cochese
They need a reason to build bigger ships than Fighters/Corvettes, and a reason not to build only Fighters/Corvettes.

Heh. Typical "sell out" position.

One of the nice things about Xan was always that you didn't have to research every ship class and build every ship; but in true PA fashion I predict a massive overcorrection and Xan will go from best to worst.

[Cochese]

You're the expert Tactitus, what would you do to balance them, without going to an extreme?

[Sun Pin]

im not nearly an expert, but xan dont need the bigger ship...dont know why they bother to have them(maybe due to some programming problems)

[Sun_Tzu]

imho just remove ob def/attack and you are set, the xandas will be good and well playable but not as extreme, and more to the point, you'll be able to actually attack! running into def 99% of the time really was a tad irritating :-/

[Chax]

revert Xandathrii to r7 stats,
leave zikonian at r8 stats
terran and cathaar were ok both rounds.

remove ob attack
maybe remove ob def, depending on cluster/para etas.

[isildurx]

OVERBURN IS NOW GONE FOR R9!!!!!

YAHOOOOOO


TY VERY MUCH CREATORS I LOVE YA :d

[mens]

well...they still need to slow down the vulture :\

[Iceaxe]

no the vulture has to stay like it is, it wouldn't be the same with a slower vulture.:/

[thomas4]

Originally posted by Silva baby
one would be tempted in the early game to not even go for black widows
just stop at spiders beetles and scarabs and go for timetravel or something

yus you would be, but how would you ever flak your pods then

[thomas4]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
no the vulture has to stay like it is, it wouldn't be the same with a slower vulture.:/

heh it woudlnt be the same with a sentinal withouth T3 all either

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by mens
well...they still need to slow down the vulture :\

the point of being xan is to have lots of LOW-ETA ships!!! how hard is that to get, if you slow down the vulture nobody will use it!!! CO is the most targetted class in the whole universe and now you want it to be slower so that the vulture will bo of no use? great idea....

Originally posted by thomas4
yus you would be, but how would you ever flak your pods then

well, if your able to freeze everything the target got then you wont need any flak
but ofc at some point you need to get black widows, you can't do the whole travel branch before you get black widow...but i wouldnt go any further for a while, but ofc thats just my oppinion

Originally posted by thomas4
heh it woudlnt be the same with a sentinal withouth T3 all either

ofcourse not, when you change something it can't be the same as it was before you changed it

but imo changing the ETA of a co-pod is far more important that changing the T3 of a FI (not that i think thats unrelevant, because it has alot to say too...but a roidstealing ship is more relevant)

no overburn.

[Iceaxe]

Seeker you didn't even read the whole thread did you?

Based on r8 stats, I'd say a cathaar who only built beetles/spiders/pods could be quite successful since that would freeze fi/co which the majority of the universe used as their main fleet. No need to flak the pods if there is nothing to shoot at them.

Obviously you could only attack a xand though, but finding them in r8 wasn't exactly hard.

[Sun_Tzu]

anyone mentioning eta8 for vultures will be declared an idiot and un-fit for the Strategy Forum, capish?

no, do not revert xanda to rnd7 stats, only an ignorant person would call that a decent set of stats, it forced all xandas to buy huge amounts of useless arrows wich just aren't worth it for flak purpose even. something in between, maybe, but in no way rnd7 stats.

rnd7 Terran >>>> rnd8 Terran

and rnd8 cathaar was stats-wise a tad better than it was rnd7, though o/c that was an reaction to the draw-back it naturally has from random gals...

[-QS-]

I think the clue about xan is not only that you are faster than other, but also that you simply give your enemy a large amount of damage before he even shoots. So, a slower vulture would impact xan ofc, but wouldn`t make em senseless. It would make em less common and through that ppl wouldn`t build their fleet up against em as intense as in R8 and with that you can have an advantage.
The suggestion of making vulture eta 8 universe was probably not well overthought. Maybe killing the att-eta-advantage in cluster or parallel (both would make em both as senseless as in R8) could ppl leave some sleep... (eta "5" xan incs are evul without ob-def!!!)
This, ofc, is only for those with a weak cluster or parallel. If you have enough friendly gals in your c or p, you can cover anything.

[Sun_Tzu]

oh, my point wasn't as trivial, it was a simple recognition that if the eta of the vulture is increased to 8 it's weakness in comparison to the normal pod would render it absolutly useless, much more so than the (imho) very useless mega-pods of the cathaar. More to the point, xanda has no really good flak for the vultures, so if it was eta8 people would o/c use frigs instead of the in-general worthless co-class of the xandas, so in effect changing one ship changes the playing-style of the race, from being the minor-class race to becoming a normal-class, just as a decently played cathaar is. What's the point of it then anymore? :-/

[Sun Pin]

good reply Sun_Tzu

[Iceaxe]

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
no, do not revert xanda to rnd7 stats, only an ignorant person would call that a decent set of stats, it forced all xandas to buy huge amounts of useless arrows wich just aren't worth it for flak purpose even. something in between, maybe, but in no way rnd7 stats.

I agree with everything you've said except this. The arrowhead is a mini-peg, it kills quite well. It isn't good as flak but you could just buy arrows, pulsars, and vultures and have a hell of a fleet.

In r7, Parracida had the best xand fleet before the titans/fury war imo. He had ~300k pulsars and 150k arrows. I remember him roiding Sention, a top 10 terran, with this fleet. The massive amount of pulsars took care of Sentions considerable pegs and the arrows nullified his harpies. Albeit Sentions gal mates didn't notice parra's fleet incoming before eta 2 (due to it just showing the vultures, and sention had regular tiny incomings because he was t10) and didn't get him defence but it was very rare a smaller xand could roid a bigger terran.

[Troll]

the problem with xan is

They are cloaked have the best killing int and are fast. Infact their armor isn't bad at all considering they fire first and have alot less ships firing back. IMO they have 3 great things and perhaps it's one too many.

something clearly needs to be done to weaken them


ETA8 vultures is extreme but that was when there was ovb

with out ovb who cares

[-QS-]

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
oh, my point wasn't as trivial, it was a simple recognition that if the eta of the vulture is increased to 8 it's weakness in comparison to the normal pod would render it absolutly useless, much more so than the (imho) very useless mega-pods of the cathaar. More to the point, xanda has no really good flak for the vultures, so if it was eta8 people would o/c use frigs instead of the in-general worthless co-class of the xandas, so in effect changing one ship changes the playing-style of the race, from being the minor-class race to becoming a normal-class, just as a decently played cathaar is. What's the point of it then anymore? :-/

Mmh, I think what you forget is that if you go for FI/CO, FR-killer like wyvern, pulsar don`t target you!

[mens]

Originally posted by -QS-
(eta "5" xan incs are evul without ob-def!!!)

hear hear.

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
I agree with everything you've said except this. The arrowhead is a mini-peg, it kills quite well. It isn't good as flak but you could just buy arrows, pulsars, and vultures and have a hell of a fleet.

its only corsair they kill better than v.fighter, and it fires after every single FI has shot, so with arrowheads you'll still take all the FI damage for the first tick

and whats the most common ship to send in defence?

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by -QS-
Mmh, I think what you forget is that if you go for FI/CO, FR-killer like wyvern, pulsar don`t target you!

and if you go for Fr FI/CO killers/freezers like pegs, beetle dont target you

besides alot more ships target co then fr, dont have time to write more now, add more later

No-D

[Iceaxe]

Originally posted by Sun Pin
its only corsair they kill better than v.fighter, and it fires after every single FI has shot, so with arrowheads you'll still take all the FI damage for the first tick

and whats the most common ship to send in defence?

In r7, for xand the pulsar. In r8, for xand the sentinel. I was talking about r7.

[MAdnRisKy]

it was the mil scans that tipped xan over the edge.

and if you want to nuke the sentinal, make it eta 3 not 2 problem solved.

the sentinals stats are fine. (ho ho) It was the fact that you could use it for ANYTHING and were forced to buy **** loads of them because of the C sink aspect. Xan are the most metal dependent race of all, and whilst sharing this will largely fall on deaf ears that did need to change.

This is going to turn into a rant i suspect, feel free to skip it, but.....

If you want to re work the xan race do this:

(first for fks sake fix the mil scans)

increase the sentinals cost to match it's previous rnd 7 efficiency (by mostly increasing the M) end cost ratio is now 50 / 50 (with a little jiggling). This will have the same effect as the rnd 7 bomber (no-one will build them even though it's seemingly the best option)

increase the crystal cost for the pulsar whilst lowering the m costs in proportion, allowing for a more balanced fleet. to a 40 / 60 ratio.

this means more pulsars less sentinals. Pulsar is better than the sentinal yes, but doesn't have the range of targets. The sentinal doesn't suck, but you find it becomes more like the chimera than it was (hitting everything but not especially well, just averagely).




that's fixing the Xan race, the other aspects come with fixing the other races to match.

cat is fine, and largely so is terran upgrade hydra back to rnd 6 stats. slight increase to agil of both CO class ships (and if fi isn't added to phx, add it along with a slight - 1 or 2 - to wpsd)

zik, change pillager to an almost hydra type CR killing not stealing, and eta 8 with targets of CO fi. efficiency old rnd 7 cutter stats (wasn't that bad actually), revert cutter to round 7. Improve thiefs efficiency to that of the marauder (either more guns or a higher wpsd, probably a combination of the two, cba to invent some numbedrs now). Effect? zik can hunt xan with a de cr fleet, also applicable to cat and terran roiding still.

[isildurx]

dont put the sent to eta 3 instead of 2 it wont help too much.

xans can still use it at attacking which imo is bit bad (:/)

i think the sent either should lose its T3, go back to more metal than crystal or b dropped in stats(made weaker).

i also feel terrans shud have a lil upgrade on the hydra an (maybe) a lil downgrade on teh wyvern.

cath r just fine, while i agree with mad on the part about ziks.

[isildurx]

and another thing


im somewhat tired of ppl bitching all day about milscans.

imo they arent all that bad atm

they may give 'a small plus to the xans, but not very much.

i was a DC all last round, and millies didnt cause me too much of hassle. There are not many times an attacker send one very small fleet, and use a gigantic one to fake it with.

if u are in doubt sending in a few cath ships ingal stunning alll the pods just incase is not really a substansial loss imo.

so if ya want to weaken the xans, dont fk wiff the millie.

its one of the few 'unknown' factors left in this game!

[-QS-]

Originally posted by Sun Pin
and if you go for Fr FI/CO killers/freezers like pegs, beetle dont target you

besides alot more ships target co then fr, dont have time to write more now, add more later

No-D

The thing is:

Most ppl have ships against nearly all classes.
Not all, but most ships target a class of ships which seperates them from others, like FI usually target FI/CO and possibly FR. Now, if someone has, for instance vsharrak and pulsar as main def and you attack with FI/CO and FR, the pulsar shoot at you, which they wouldn`t have done before.
I don`t speak about spezialized guys, but well balanced fleets.

And if you say beetle don`t target you... do u want to attack with FR only???