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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 06:59   #1
ManiacMagic
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scans

So this is just an idea I had to allow more players the ability to play and make things a bit easier/more competitive.

What if as far as scans go we dont use amps/dissies with one exception.

So once you research the scan you can use it on anyone. the exception would be inc scans ... on inc scans you can use dissie and amps ... this would allow the many scanners we have in a small game to play full out ... and also allow people a little bit more access instead of having to ask around all their friends (some dont have friends, like me).
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 08:31   #2
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Re: scans

apocco asked earlier what people would pay an extra credit for maybe this could be it? Ability to scan all but I scan. This has no effect on your wave research and you would still have to go through all your own research to get Au with your own amps. And it doesnt eliminate the need for J rushers or amp scanners.
Scan strength:
Normal scan cost
PDU avail at 0
N avail at 40
J avail at 80
Au avail at 160
Number of amps = Ticknumber / 30
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 09:45   #3
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Re: scans

Dists are not a problem that needs solving.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 10:36   #4
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Re: scans

Not having scanners is a problem tho, and its worth solving.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 17:00   #5
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Re: scans

i dont see what the problem would be ... you would eliminate the need for hard core scanners, they could then play ... xan and faking still happens just the same if you have dissies, they blocking inc scans just like normal. this would make the game a lot more friendly to vets and new people.

P D U N J A are not blocked by distorters, that's the only change you really need to make, I'd pay extra for it hell. You still do the research, alliance still has the scan fund ... Inc scans ARE still blocked by dissies (faking is still just as big as b4.

Less having to keep waking up your high amp scanner, less scan requests, less page traffic, less server load ...

Last edited by ManiacMagic; 29 Oct 2012 at 17:09.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 17:13   #6
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Re: scans

I'm a big proponent of disting as a strategy. Disting as in, being unscannable, rather than just having a few dists to block incoming scans. Just because it's not a competetive approach right now doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water and just make it impossible instead.

Now, if you want to make scans more easily accessible, I'm all for that. My preferred approach (as I've said many times, so I won't go into detail) is changing the order in which scans are researched. Planet and dev scan are pretty useless compared to unit scans. If you give the scans needed for attacks first, then a solo player can play without having access to a dedicated scanner. Unit scans should be first and should show cloaked ships. Landing scans should be next, and should show more JGP-like information. Everything after that can pretty much stay as it is.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 29 Oct 2012 at 17:23.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 17:14   #7
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Re: scans

I like it.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 17:21   #8
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Re: scans

I think this may be a good plan. I'd love knowing I don't have to worry about waking up at 5am and not being able to find one of my amp whore scanners then get stuck having to recall due to not having the ability to see defenders or calc if I need to because I have no scans.

I've talked to many over the years and one of the best memories we've brought up every time is the Military Scans of the early rounds. I'd love to see at least some of that idea brought back. Perhaps not all of the benefits like seeing where the fleets are going from a specific planet but at least knowing they are out...something perhaps combining Newsies and Jumps into a new scan.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 17:24   #9
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Re: scans

aditional scans and bennefits like that could be put in the AMP/DISS part that makes amps and dissies effective along with inc scans. but for simplicity of implementation I would imagine just a grouping of things not affected by dissies would be an easy task.

I do like your idea tara tho, maybe some more flexible scans later on in the game, maybe these ones are also amp dependent.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 17:29   #10
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Now, if you want to make scans more easily accessible, I'm all for that. My preferred approach (as I've said many times, so I won't go into detail) is changing the order in which scans are researched. Planet and dev scan are pretty useless compared to unit scans. If you give the scans needed for attacks first, then a solo player can play without having access to a dedicated scanner. Unit scans should be first and should show cloaked ships. Landing scans should be next, and should show more JGP-like information. Everything after that can pretty much stay as it is.
Prob is planets and devs really aren't useless. My DCs require devs for seeing if attackers may have not done all their travel research and get the correct dev ships out. For attacking I always use Planets to see if resources are in production so even if there are no defenders I don't lose my fleet from ships suddenly coming out of production. Early in the rounds those are extremely useful. I also think Units, as they are now, are fine not showing cloaked ships. It works in tandem with how quickly people can make amps and dists. If we had Units show cloaked ships and have them first in the tree then dist whoring would be in the past and Xans would lose the ability to fake, or at least fake well.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 18:11   #11
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
apocco asked earlier what people would pay an extra credit for maybe this could be it?
I refuse to give Jagass anymore than 1 paying credit per round due to their attitude towards the game and the fact they haven't done anything to improve the game since they took over ownership.

Why should us players pay for an extra credit in a dieing game?

I think if the PA team approves ManiacMagic's suggestion/idea, that it should be implemented as part of the 1 credit that you purchase, considering Jagass hasn't really made any improvments to make the game worth paying for.
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 18:50   #12
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I refuse to give Jagass anymore than 1 paying credit per round due to their attitude towards the game and the fact they haven't done anything to improve the game since they took over ownership.

Why should us players pay for an extra credit in a dieing game?

I think if the PA team approves ManiacMagic's suggestion/idea, that it should be implemented as part of the 1 credit that you purchase, considering Jagass hasn't really made any improvments to make the game worth paying for.
I meean I myself wouldnt mind paying an extra credit but tbh it should be universal ... either way it would save me so much wasted time in the game and actually would interest me in playing this game again next round ... as right now it just takes too much time while at work. the diff between scanners and diss whores is huge, diss whores play the game while scanners typically cant play the game ... this would change that ... and level it out enough ... plus allow normal people in small alliances to play much better as well. they still have to protect vs fakes xan still can sed out three ships in three fleets and look like an armada ... it just cuts down on the time it takes dedicated to finding online scanners ect ...
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Unread 29 Oct 2012, 18:59   #13
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacMagic View Post
I meean I myself wouldnt mind paying an extra credit but tbh it should be universal ... either way it would save me so much wasted time in the game and actually would interest me in playing this game again next round ... as right now it just takes too much time while at work. the diff between scanners and diss whores is huge, diss whores play the game while scanners typically cant play the game ... this would change that ... and level it out enough ... plus allow normal people in small alliances to play much better as well. they still have to protect vs fakes xan still can sed out three ships in three fleets and look like an armada ... it just cuts down on the time it takes dedicated to finding online scanners ect ...
I agree. Today, I had a lot of incoming to DC and I just didn't have the time to wait for scans, make calcs/organise defence. It's interfering with my work life.
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Unread 30 Oct 2012, 06:15   #14
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Re: scans

Is it just me or is the impact of this not going to be as big as you guys think?

Here are a few things to consider:
You'll still need dedicated scanners in order to have those scans at the start of the round. Scans still require researching, all it does is increase scan team from a few players to those who have researched the scans.

Half the fun of being distwhore is taken away when you can no longer blow up amps with your SK's and be like "Haha, now they can't tell what ships i have anymore."

Scanners are usually players who can't spend huge amounts of time playing, and is a great option for those who can maybe only play first half of round. With late signing the option for people who can't play first half.

That being said, i am FOR this change due to having less reliance on scanners to be able to dc incs is definately a pro.
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Unread 4 Nov 2012, 19:11   #15
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Re: scans

yup you would still need a begining scan rusher thats for sure, but everything else after that would be an amazing ease off the shoulders while playing.
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Unread 4 Nov 2012, 23:07   #16
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Re: scans

So we go for my suggestion, access to a scanfacility with:

Normal scan cost
Incoming scan not possible
PDU avail at 0
N avail at 40
J avail at 80
Au avail at 160
Number of amps = Ticknumber / 30

And if you want more amps / earlier scans you have to research it ordinary(the tech/amps on the facility doesn't affect your planet tech / amps.

Put it in the ordinary upgrade package. Or take extra charge if that what it takes for it to be implemented
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 06:53   #17
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Re: scans

You are talking about a lot of extra work and coding there imo ... its pretty simple to just say PDUNJA are immune to dissies. While Inc scans are :P

then xans stillg et to fake all over the unit if they diss whore etc
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 10:51   #18
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Re: scans

Your suggestion greatly lowers the value of dists tho.

And it's probably not more than a days work to sort the facility, make it a planet in 1:1 in protection all round. With some triggers that make it autoscan upon request.
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 11:21   #19
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacMagic View Post
You are talking about a lot of extra work and coding there imo ... its pretty simple to just say PDUNJA are immune to dissies. While Inc scans are :P

then xans stillg et to fake all over the unit if they diss whore etc
crazy thought but if your having so much difficulty getting scans why don't you just research the scans and build amps yourself
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 16:41   #20
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Re: scans

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Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
crazy thought but if your having so much difficulty getting scans why don't you just research the scans and build amps yourself
I usually do, the value of dissies is way too high as it is.

You can be a diss whore and still play, it helps you play. You cant be an amp whore and effectively play.

Waiting around for scanners to get on or finding the one or two high amp scanners is just a pain in the butt, and pointless ... a lot more people could play a lot better and have more fun if this were implimented. many people cant dedicate all the time that others can into playing the game and waiting around for scans ... this would greatly help them out. they still cost money, you still have to research them, you just dont have to wait for your amp whore to get online.
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 18:08   #21
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Re: scans

If dists were that good, we'd see more distwhores in the universe. Since we don't, the easy conclusion we can draw is that you're wrong.
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 19:42   #22
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If dists were that good, we'd see more distwhores in the universe. Since we don't, the easy conclusion we can draw is that you're wrong.
suppose it also depends on the definition of a distwhore... i would count a distwhore who is 10 dists ahead of me at all times during the round.. meaning i cant even bonus to i scan them..


Other ppl see as someone who builds solely dists...

There is always a scanner that can scan you but aslong as you are chunk ahead of the fields avg amp count then you are technically a successful distwhore
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 20:56   #23
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Re: scans

Distwhoring is staying ahead of high amp scanners. Preventing being incoming scanned is just 'building dists'.
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Unread 5 Nov 2012, 21:23   #24
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Distwhoring is staying ahead of high amp scanners. Preventing being incoming scanned is just 'building dists'.
But at some point you have to build another construction... otherwise your planet is entirely crap... and then the amp scanner goes past you as they dont have to...
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Unread 3 Dec 2012, 13:00   #25
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Re: scans

bummmpppp lets fix scans!!!
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Unread 3 Dec 2012, 13:37   #26
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Re: scans

Whats there to fix?
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Unread 5 Dec 2012, 00:34   #27
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Re: scans

The fact that some people have to give up actually playing the game in order for others to do so.
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Unread 5 Dec 2012, 01:59   #28
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Re: scans

that just bias... You can be a good active scanner with more than decent ammount of amps and still play for value/score.
Saying otherwise is just a bad excuse for something beyond my level of reasoning.
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Unread 5 Dec 2012, 02:59   #29
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacMagic View Post
I usually do, the value of dissies is way too high as it is.

You can be a diss whore and still play, it helps you play. You cant be an amp whore and effectively play.

Waiting around for scanners to get on or finding the one or two high amp scanners is just a pain in the butt, and pointless ... a lot more people could play a lot better and have more fun if this were implimented. many people cant dedicate all the time that others can into playing the game and waiting around for scans ... this would greatly help them out. they still cost money, you still have to research them, you just dont have to wait for your amp whore to get online.
Biggest pile of bullshit I've seen posted for a while.

1) Use an old scan. With the alliance tools in place, there's really no need to wait for a new scan of a dude. Heck just look at the eta and be reasonable with a ship ratio guess.. Before scans got as accelerated as they are now, no-one would have au before tick 200 and we still played the game fine.

2) Dist-whoring as a strategy does not work. Tried and tested tbh.

3) If you have less than 40 amps at round end, you are a failure as a planet.
It's just bad play, harmful to yourself, but also for your alliance. They will need to send more ships to cover potential fakes. You will get attacked less if you have a decent amount of amps, so there are personal benefits as well. With a decent amp number, you can even help out your alliance with scans.


Last round as a late starter cath(pt300ish), I had 25+ from tick 500 and ended with 43. I think I did alright in the rankings. None of my former planets had less than 30 amps either.

With what you are suggesting, there's nearly no reason to actually build amps or dists. Let's all just spam FC's and refs. Wooo-hooo.

A decent amout of amps or dists are currently good options for most planets. This is a good thing
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Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 10:07   #30
ManiacMagic
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Re: scans

even less of a reason, you still have to research the wave tech to do it but dissies are more of an annoyance to anything ... it would be good enough that they are used for inc scans ...
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 20:41   #31
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Re: scans

thats the entire point of distorders... maybe you should make more room for amps in your build up?
And the chanse that you get hit by someone with more distorders than you got amps isn't very big. Considering the ammount of distwhores out there, and how many other potensial targets they've got.
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Unread 6 Dec 2012, 22:50   #32
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Re: scans

ive got plenty of amps
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Unread 7 Dec 2012, 13:43   #33
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Re: scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacMagic View Post
ive got plenty of amps
30 is not plenty, especially not for a big planet.
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Golan - Ascendancy

Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
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Unread 8 Dec 2012, 00:16   #34
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Re: scans

Honestly, Id like to see the costs of scans lowered.
Im playing on my own and im top 53 scanner in the universe. One stupid p scan costs more than bulding a battleship!
Guess how much resources had to spend to do my needed scans.....
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