Defence

[Paul_Atreides]

there should be planatary based defence, like anti-ship turrets, or planatary defence screens, or ships that are extreamly powerfull (but at a high price) that are not FTL caplble, but they can attack all ships. or the planet based ones are built like regular buildings, so you have 2 wait 4 it 2 finish b4 u can build another building.

What do u think??

[Gerbie]

This game had Planetary Defence Systems in the past that were not mobile. It made attacking less attracktive and made it a lot more painfull if you got attacked (since you could not send them out). It was removed with reason, but you never know for next round.

The fact that people like to be able to better defend themselves against attacks is understandable, but it makes it harder to attack as well, making the game less fun. The ability to attack (and send ships to defend others) is crucial to the game.

[Paul_Atreides]

It should still be at lest avalible so ppl who dont mind, if u dont want to risk it, dont build it!

BTW,
bo u get salvage if 1 of ur buildings is destroyer?

[Gerbie]

No, there is no salvage for lost constructions.

[Paul_Atreides]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

No, there is no salvage for lost constructions.

nuts,

what about the avalibility thing??

[mist]

pds made the game stagnate quicker. it was also a newbie trap.

both bad points, so imo it should be left on the trash pile

-mist

[Paul_Atreides]

how is it a newbie trap

[mist]

newbies see that they're 'good' for defence
newbies build them
newbies get attacked by a fleet twice their size
newbies can't move their pds
newbies get pwned

newbie trap

-mist

[Jonas]

I could agree on a construction functioning as defence. Maybe just Turret Defence. But it should suck

[Paul_Atreides]

Originally Posted by Jonas

I could agree on a construction functioning as defence. Maybe just Turret Defence. But it should suck

then it should only take 1 turn 2 build, and b cheap

P.S.they would still only b abl 2b attacker by struc killer, and not every1 sends them

[mist]

i suppose they'd act as some form of flak. however don't some of the other buildings work on the percentage of buildings you have of them? given that, the pds would be awfully expensive given the other required buildings as well

-mist

[Paul_Atreides]

if u dont want it, DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!!!!

[Blacknova]

PDS goes one of 2 ways, it's either amazingly effecient in comparison to ships (how it should be) but that favours big players who can afford PDS fortresses to defend their rocks (meaning they can attack far more freely than without).

OR

It's amazingly crap and no-one but utter newbies invest in it.

Therefore it's of no use to anyone :|

Nova

[Gerbie]

If you make it a construction then I think you got it where it's needed. Big players won't bother as it will reduce their security and research bonus. And for them building a finance centre gives loads of resources, which can be converted in a lot more firepower if they build ships. Smaller players who get their constructions bashed all the time will have a use for them though. For them it's cheap firepower.
If you make it a weak target all type of construction, it could compensate a bit for bad fleet compositions. It can be extremely usefull for zik and cath, who now can't kill big ships.

[Assassin]

Personally i didnt see PDS as sucking.. there was a time when it was once very strong.. plus ppl with hardly any ships could kill there attackers.. they cud wait till eta 4 then build loads of PDS and ofc then they attacker wudnt of calced that.. that was always funny to see

[Linkie]

Originally Posted by Assassin

Personally i didnt see PDS as sucking.. there was a time when it was once very strong.. plus ppl with hardly any ships could kill there attackers.. they cud wait till eta 4 then build loads of PDS and ofc then they attacker wudnt of calced that.. that was always funny to see

it sucked after it stopped firing first.
When it fired first... r3 laser turrets anyone?

[Paul_Atreides]

How about giving each building a wapon, albeit a weak, that way u would allways have some defence

[Paul_Atreides]

I just started playing a simaler game, and they have them,and you can que buildings, thouse are the only reasons that i enjoy it, so if you could just pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees put thous 2 thing in i'ed be all set

[Blacknova]

That depends on the defences in question

Defence as a structure sounds nice...

BUT:

It will force players to routinely include structure hitters in their fleetcomp, which further reduces options for attacks (no one is simply going to sit and take the loss incurred unless they are huge). This means in addition to your lovely defences going *foom* so will your factories, amps, relsabs, etc. Since defence structures would have to add towards the attackers structure kill limit it's going to increase the risk of more critical items being caught in the fire.

OR:

All structures having some sort of defence will simply mean large players can sit back on construction priority and simply whore for even more distorters and sec centers, since then they get scan block / covop immunity AND planetary defence all nicely rolled into one.

Imo PDS in the current game format is utterly unnecessary from a tactical and balance standpoint. In the old game it had a significant deterrent effect, in this one if it's a structure they would have to be some bigass defence structures to be worth looking at, and if they were classed as "immobile" ships they would need init 0 to be even worth considering (as they would be targetted in the same manner as any other ship and could not be run away from their location *hello lancers ripping through my shiny corvettes damn you* ).

Nova

[Paul_Atreides]

What about planatry shields? to lessen the #of str killed, ore protect roids, ore protect ships lice pods or structures killers? or :?:

[Shaithess]

You already have ships that protect your roids

I can understand perhaps some sort of struct protecting ship; being bashed into a pulp and losing all your production capabilities when you've just joined ain't nice. But we don't really need to make rocks harder to get, the easier they are to get, the more fluid teh game is! (End of round PaX absolutely sucked IMO as it was nigh on impossible to roid people!)

One thing I did suggest once was a structure that gives you damage bonuses to your ships at your planet to represent listening posts and command centres that improve the organisation and intel of your fleet. Say a damage improvement of 0.5 or 1% * attackers value/defenders value to represent your ships getting into position quicker, setting up ambushes etc.

[The Seal]

PDS was more balanced when you could have three rounds of combat. Put down the PDS first round and then roid freely for two more rounds. PDS with one round of combat would have to be balanced in another way. Perhaps slow initiative combined with max % destruction of the PDS, while you can make them not fire by taking them all out.
A kill/stun for all ships perhaps.

[Paul_Atreides]

What if the PDS just disabled the ships, so the attackers wouldent loose ships

[Shaithess]

It's interesting, but would be pretty pointless IMO, smaller players who invested in it woudl still get roided just as easily, for even cheaper perhaps, by bigger players.. This does nothing to help the problems that ziks and caths are having if they don't have a good alliance or galaxy to fall back on...

[Paul_Atreides]

oh well, it was worth a try.
what about the overall idea or ?

How about if PDS only target roiders and strut killers.

and leave ships for combat.

I would like to see pds back, like ppl have said if u wanna buy it, buy it. if ya dont, dont.

just another option.

[MAdnRisKy]

PDS would only have been viable if it was equipped with a "hide" option. (if the incoming looks like a butt **** mission you can hide the PDS so it doesn't fire but doesn't get shot at)

it never was...

you *could* make it a ship class with init 0 as long as you hide it, but like others have said making it a structure only encourages structure bashing which is nawty.


there's one other option, but no-one will like it.....

Make PDS invincible and have it always fire, but tie it to % of planet score versus universe average.

ie if you are in the bottom 10% it's all imune if you are at 50% then 50% of it is targetable, and if you are in the top 10% it's all targettable and do that on a sliding scale. (don't quibble on the maths of those % it's a concept not a defined pregression! - the exact numbers would need testing and tweeking) It's an interesting concept to be played with... but I can't see anyone liking it because it would balance things ... oh and PDS would have to fire last in that scenario

[Jester]

Originally Posted by bobby_d

How about if PDS only target roiders and strut killers.

and leave ships for combat.

I would like to see pds back, like ppl have said if u wanna buy it, buy it. if ya dont, dont.

just another option.

As has been repeated ad inifitum in this thread, here's a big picture that needs to be taken into account.

[ExiledBlade]

/me misses PDS

[Doorsdown]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

The fact that people like to be able to better defend themselves against attacks is understandable, but it makes it harder to attack as well, making the game less fun. The ability to attack (and send ships to defend others) is crucial to the game.

it also helps u be more of a team player. having pds only help you never anyone else

[deano_bamb]

Originally Posted by mist

pds made the game stagnate quicker. it was also a newbie trap.

both bad points, so imo it should be left on the trash pile

-mist

Agreed.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mist

newbies see that they're 'good' for defence
newbies build them
newbies get attacked by a fleet twice their size
newbies can't move their pds
newbies get pwned

newbie trap

-mist

idd, and PDS also brings another way of attacking. There will be kill fleets especially made to kill the PDS, and then the next tick the roid fleet lands.

[jerome]

Originally Posted by ExiledBlade

/me misses PDS

i bet they were real useful to the alliances you were a HC to.

[Jonas]

Remember Roman Fortress?

[jerome]

lets not forget Game is a fking nub though :(((

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by mist

newbie trap

Not quite.

The newbie trap really kicks in when, because they got plastered, they think that they need more defence, then go back to step one :P

that's the real killer

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Linkie

it sucked after it stopped firing first.
When it fired first... r3 laser turrets anyone?

heh, i liked the plasma turrets more - they would bugger up ghosts etc, so people wouldnt send them and kill all my shippies .

Pity about the cargo flak though, huh.