User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Suggestions

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 06:56   #51
LordBrem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
LordBrem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Just so people know, after tick 36 the 20 gals go away and we have 6 person + random gals. No one is suggesting a uni of 20 gals.
LordBrem is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 08:18   #52
Almeida
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austria, Vienna
Posts: 326
Almeida is a splendid one to beholdAlmeida is a splendid one to beholdAlmeida is a splendid one to beholdAlmeida is a splendid one to beholdAlmeida is a splendid one to beholdAlmeida is a splendid one to beholdAlmeida is a splendid one to behold
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

ah ok then i got it wrong in the first place
so then i am fine with this method
Almeida is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 09:32   #53
Recluse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 318
Recluse is a name known to allRecluse is a name known to allRecluse is a name known to allRecluse is a name known to allRecluse is a name known to allRecluse is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

I meant sorting by score at tick 36 was useless as a newb who signs up and logs in once, will be equal to someone who had a crappy schedule and missed tickstarts etc so only logged in once so far, even if they are uber 1337. By tick 72 tho it should be easy to tell the people who are playing and who simply signed up/logged in once/don't know wtf they are doing.
__________________
*KoN* ~~ *NoS* ~~ *Fang* ~~ *Angels* ~~ *Urwins* ~~ *TheFallen* ~~ *Spore* ~~ *Ult Def Planet* ~~

Saver of Sad

Supreme Commander of The Spider Colony
Recluse is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 10:05   #54
Kloopy
-Back Again-
 
Kloopy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Posts: 707
Kloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud of
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBrem
This is a horrendous idea. How many people paid this round to be stuck with 5 inactives? It is not possible for a gal of 5 active players to compete with one of 10 active players - and the ONLY determination of this is LUCK.

If someone has a group of 10 friends who are all active, they should be able to make a galaxy with their friends. Then, their success in the round will be based on SKILL, not on LUCK.

What is the point of staying up all night to attack and defend if you have 1/2 of the support in gal simply because you did not luck out in the original shuffle?

If you are active, and have friends who are active, you deserve to beat people who are not. They can always cov ops you.


If you really want, simply allow private gals, but cap them at five members. But cap random gals at 10 or 15 members. This would give the randoms an advantage, but would not give some private gals an unfair advantage over others.
I totally disagree. A random galaxy of 10 to 15 people could, with luck, easily out do a private galaxy of 5. And we're solving the issue in your first paragraph anyway, by saying that all gals will have a total of 6 privates (2x3 or 3x2 packs). Admittedely it appears tick 36 is too early to determine a decent score spread, but the randoms will be assigned equally aswell. So as long as the implmenetation is decent, which we're assuming for the sake of argument, then the galaxies are pretty much equal.
__________________
:: Plain Old Civilian :: http://www.kloopy.com :: [email protected] ::
:: Some people have six pack abdomens; I have a keg. ::
:: Beer - The reason I wake up every afternoon. ::
Kloopy is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 10:13   #55
Kloopy
-Back Again-
 
Kloopy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Posts: 707
Kloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud of
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Tick 36
It appears that the idea of shuffling at tick 36 is abusable. I agree with this and can see it happening. In this case, can we discuss whether shuffling earlier, say at tick 0 or 12 would be best, or whether shuffling later at tick 72 (for example) would be best.

I reckon it'd be better to shuffle later. I think that it's most important to ensure we spread the randoms evenly across the universe. If we shuffle them early in the round when there is nothing to set their activeness by, then we could end up putting only planets that end up being active in one gal and only idle planets in another. Which would be disastrous.

What about shuffling in tick 48 or 56? Would shuffling in either of those ticks destroy the option of leaving your planet at a particular score to abuse the shuffle?

Abusing the pack merge
As Gerbie pointed out, people in the large organised alliances could well ask their members to signup in packs of 2. That way, they stand a very good chance of ending up in a gal with 2 packs of 2 members (4 people) or even 3 packs of 2 members. Again, I can see this happening.

Once solution, of course, would be to use the in-game alliance the players have joined, in some way. But of course, people could just postpone signing up to the alliance until after the shuffle.

Can anyone see a way we can discourage abusing the system in this way?
__________________
:: Plain Old Civilian :: http://www.kloopy.com :: [email protected] ::
:: Some people have six pack abdomens; I have a keg. ::
:: Beer - The reason I wake up every afternoon. ::
Kloopy is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 10:26   #56
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloopy
Tick 36
It appears that the idea of shuffling at tick 36 is abusable. I agree with this and can see it happening. In this case, can we discuss whether shuffling earlier, say at tick 0 or 12 would be best, or whether shuffling later at tick 72 (for example) would be best.

I reckon it'd be better to shuffle later. I think that it's most important to ensure we spread the randoms evenly across the universe. If we shuffle them early in the round when there is nothing to set their activeness by, then we could end up putting only planets that end up being active in one gal and only idle planets in another. Which would be disastrous.

What about shuffling in tick 48 or 56? Would shuffling in either of those ticks destroy the option of leaving your planet at a particular score to abuse the shuffle?

Abusing the pack merge
As Gerbie pointed out, people in the large organised alliances could well ask their members to signup in packs of 2. That way, they stand a very good chance of ending up in a gal with 2 packs of 2 members (4 people) or even 3 packs of 2 members. Again, I can see this happening.

Once solution, of course, would be to use the in-game alliance the players have joined, in some way. But of course, people could just postpone signing up to the alliance until after the shuffle.

Can anyone see a way we can discourage abusing the system in this way?

point 1, i personally would say tick 72 fot shuffle then have game offline for a day for gals to get to know each other, or have longer protection.

pack merge - gerbie is right, however your alliance looses control of its gals potentially if it only has 2 members in them rather than 3, and most people will want to play with more than one friend, so i'm unconvinced its a major issue.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 12:14   #57
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

to stop people creating 2 member packs in order to get together, why not always use two packs, and then bulk out the 1-2 spaces left with other paids?

wrt the shuffle time. i'd say 72 ticks and leave the game running.
there are a range of people in the game, from those who're newbies and only care about their planet, to those who're alliance minded and will try and rule the cluster. the prior need to be 'looked after', but won't really care about cluster alliances and stuff, the latter will be going hell for leather for them anyway.

stopping the game will give people time to get organised, yes, however is this really neccessary? personally, i always prefered it while the game was running as it made the diplomacy more urgent, and therefore more interesting.

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 13:05   #58
Borg
Proud NoSser
 
Borg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 43
Borg is on a distinguished road
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

I like it

the logic behind the idea is sound and in theory should make for a more balanced and fluid universe

unfortunatly, my greatest worry is that PATeam are going to fall flat on their faces by being unable to follow up in practice


if you can make it work, great. I wont hold my breathe tho, dont wanna kill myself after all
__________________
Assimilation is never without some pain, but only for you

Proud to be NoS

My views are my personal views and are not a statement from NoS
Borg is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 15:04   #59
Bashar
Idle Git
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wandering
Posts: 1,550
Bashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet societyBashar is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
point 1, i personally would say tick 72 fot shuffle then have game offline for a day for gals to get to know each other, or have longer protection.

pack merge - gerbie is right, however your alliance looses control of its gals potentially if it only has 2 members in them rather than 3, and most people will want to play with more than one friend, so i'm unconvinced its a major issue.
WTF is PA-Team's obsession with stopping the game at tick 72? You want to do it every bloody round. It achieves nothing. The point is that the game is real-time. Pausing it so that people can do things that are part of the game outside the time constraints of the game is completely illogical. It's like pausing it when someone gets incomming to make sure they have enough time to cover the incomming. It is not how the game works.

Also, people don't like the game being stopped. At the start of the round, all people want is to get to the end of protection as quick as possible so they can start killing things. Slowing this is not popular. If you want to be popular, then you need to put protection on 1 minute ticks, not stop it when people just get to the end of it.

It's like you are trying to create a soap opera with a cliffhanger.
__________________
Here we go again....
Bashar is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 15:05   #60
Kloopy
-Back Again-
 
Kloopy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Posts: 707
Kloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud of
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Hehe Borg.

Mist, I'm almost convinced on the idea of only 2 packs with padding as required, it sounds as if it cures the problem that was brought up.

As for waiting until tick 72 for the shuffle, I'm not convinced that continuing straight away is a great idea.

If we do tickstart at 8am (bear with me), this means that 10 hours later, the first constructions and researches are being completed, which places the first time players NEED to login at 6pm. At this time, most people in Europe will be home from school/college/university/work and will be able to start their second constructions and researches.

This would, be simple thinking, place tick 72 at 8am. We could perform the shuffle, etc at 8am and bring the game back up straight away. We could then pause for 10 hours and start the ticks again at 6pm. The same logic of most people being online works here to. This gives everyone 10 hours to get to know their gals and the early evening to prepare cluster alliances and also to find targets for their first attacks.

To summarise;
- Tick 1 @ 08:00
- Tick 10 @ 18:00
- Tick 24 @ 08:00
- Tick 48 @ 08:00
- Tick 72 @ 08:00
- Shuffle @ 08:05
- Pause for ten hours
- Tick 73 @ 18:00

I'd like to hear peoples views on both these points and ideas.
__________________
:: Plain Old Civilian :: http://www.kloopy.com :: [email protected] ::
:: Some people have six pack abdomens; I have a keg. ::
:: Beer - The reason I wake up every afternoon. ::
Kloopy is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 17:31   #61
Conall
There is a better answer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 247
Conall will become famous soon enoughConall will become famous soon enough
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Over a course of several meetings we in Pa Team have produced a proposal for round 13 galaxies. So here it is, discuss it criticise it, find problems in it. Kloopy will decide when the irc based Discussion Time on this will take place later today.
Bravo, I for one really appreciate PATeams efforts to include out opinions and suggestions early in the process. This should allow us to help develop a better game play system and allow everyone to know they have had a voice, even if their suggestions are not implemented. Of course you will always have those that will be upset you didn’t listen to them, but such is life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Signups open with 20 gals with a mentor in each
Signups are allocated to one of those mentor gals until tick 36
I am not real clear on the benefit here, but I can’t currently see any harm by doing so, other than 20-30 flames to the galaxy forum for “noob” questions or complaints. What is evident to long time players may not be so clear to new players and the backlash to the new players may drive some not to take advantage of the system. Not sure what the solution is for this however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Once upgraded people can make buddy packs with up to 3 people on preferences screen - this works by adding a code to your planet which the shuffler will then use to move you and your friends together into one galaxy with other packs and randoms.
I like Buddy packs and I like the 5 private gal mates system. The problem wasn’t with having 5 private members but with the implementation at round start. The benefits of either system needs to be measured in context to how the rest of the set up is run. So in this proposal buddy packs makes sense. If however this proposal changes dramatically then 5 member private galaxies may need to be reconsidered. It needs to be decided in context not as a stand alone issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
In tick 36, the shuffle creates as many gals as possible with packs totalling 6 people (2 packs of 3, or 3 packs of 2)
Seems reasonable in context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Paid randoms are shuffled first (including packs of 1 person).
Free randoms are then distributed among those 6-person pack gals based on score - this means that the better free randoms are put into gals first and spread evenly across the universe with the less good ones being added in later. So all galaxies have an equal chance of getting good free players.
Great! However, I am always concerned when the shuffle is dependent on a measurement that really isn’t imperical or that has enough run time as to be very accurate. I can see issues where a planet qualifies on being a so called active random based on shuffle at tick 36, but drops off the face of the earth after that. In fact I can see how this could be abused by some to have multiple planets and choose to keep their best gal placement and the rest die off. It puts a lot of pressure on the Multihunters to find these guys fast and not make too many errors of falsely tagging someone a multi. Either way I can see there being a lot of complaints about this or that planet not being active so why did PATeam deem him active. I am not sure you are not creating another problem for yourselves with this solutions. This is my first pass at this issue, so I will think about it some more and perhaps comment more latter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
After the shuffle there will be lots of gals each with 6 people from packs and randoms givgin each galaxy approximatly 10 planets.
Sounds reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
No more galaxies are ever created
Here I have some problems. Based on what I remember from the start of the round there were approximately 2000 planets at tick 72. I would guess that half were paid non-random. If you divide 1000 paid non-random planets by 6 you get roughly 166 galaxies and 17 clusters. That is a very small universe. Add to that some 33 to 50 of those galaxies will be off limits to alliances for attacking (since most still hold to not attacking in member galaxies as a general rule) and the available universe for attacks shrinks to as few as 116 galaxies (based on 2 alliance members per buddy pack). Conceiveably even 100 galaxies could be offlimits if there are only 1 alliance member per buddy pack, although that is higly unlikely. I see the weaker of these galaxies facing constant incoming creating a larger separation between top and bottom. Additionally, add legal multiple account households and the current multihunter tactics and you have even less viable targets during a given period. (Since 2 people in a household cannot attack the same galaxies. Even though I assume this means during a given time period.). As the round has progressed we are around 3500 planets which would mean galaxies with 21 planets in them. Not a bad thing with a larger player base but rather large for the current player base. I can visualize galaxies actually practically separating themselves were 10 or 11 players work together and defend and the rest are left to fend for themselves. Particularly as Alliances struggle to find targets. IN effect you have half the galaxy guiding allies into their bottom half planets making it more difficult for those random planets to survive and thirve.

Perhaps Kal or other on PATeam can provide some statistics to support or contradict my assumptions. Or at least run some numbers and give us an idea based on this round how this unfolds.

Second this precludes latter joins from creating buddy packs which I see as a very negative proposition if you are trying to get new players in the game. It seems to me to be much more appealing for 2-3 friends to join the game late if they can be together.

Third issue is planets that are set up for the sole purpose of spying. I know the multihunters work diligently to stop this but where there is a will there is a way. But with few galaxies, then those that would do this have a much easier life and can take precautions to make catching them even less likely. One spy could effectively watch 20 planets or a galaxies could easily have 3 or 4 spies in it. This is greatly reduced with smaller galaxies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
When a galaxy exiles a planet they will be sent to c200+ like in this round.
Signups and exiles (returning form c200+) are distributed through these gals with no gal-size limit, placing them into a gal in the bottom 20% by planet count. So this means that the galaxies with the most players get the lowest possibly priority on new players.
Again – this does not allow new sign ups to form buddy packs. I think that is a draw back to attracting new paying players. But I do like the concept of spreading the planets to galaxies with fewer planets as the round progresses. Perhaps it would be best to fill based on numbers rather than percentage. If a few galaxies have only 5 planets for example they are filled with randoms till they have six, then all galaxies with only 6 are filled to 7 and so forth and so on. Mathematically this is a different formula but in practice may have no different effect than what you have suggested. My point is only to try to keep the galaxies as close to equal size as possible on a daily basis. I have seen this round were some galaxies got filled while others remained at 5, that didn’t seem fair to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Notes:
Mentor – community volunteer / pa representative who will help people out where possible - normal players are shuffled as normal, PaTeam members moved to 1:1 etc
That’s all for now and I know it is long winded. Perhaps as I have time to digest this I can more succinct and have some better suggestions.
__________________
Conall - Rds 2-5, 11-?
I am Still.......

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
Sir Winston Churchill

Last edited by Conall; 2 Nov 2004 at 17:57.
Conall is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 18:53   #62
Forest
Don't make me declare war
 
Forest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
Forest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Im concerned about how exilees come back into the game in the bottom 20% of the gals (by #)

Whats to stop someone exiling all bar 3 players, putting them in bottom, then getting their mates to exile at same time, effectively creating a private gal.
Forest is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:01   #63
L3rd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

This round there are a lot galaxy's with 10 players and that the bottom 5 are less active or inactive. Some gals have been praised with 5 active people. 5 privates and 5 randoms isnt the best choice in my opinion. Why don't we get a 15 player galaxy with 10 privates maximum. There will be more (presumebly) active people to make up for the lesser active randoms.

With more private players, there is a smaller chance to get roided, because there are more people from different alliances who can arrange defense.
Being roided at the start of the game isnt the best way to explain the newcomers (mostly randoms) how this game has to be played.

To teach the newcomers how the game works you have to involve them in the defense/attack system of the game, which is more easy if the galaxy's are bigger and survive longer.
 
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:02   #64
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

measuring activity
there are always going to be people who get bored and quit, perhaps after 36 hours, perhaps after 72 hours, whatever. making the shuffle later could alleviate this problem, and i think it's already been considered if you look back at posts throughout the thread. the alternative to this is to just plonk planets randomly. would you prefer this? do you have a better way of placing planets based on activity?

multi planets for position
this is going to be a problem for any shuffle. therefore, solutions are either for the multi hunters to be looking closely at things, or not not have a shuffle. not having a shuffle means either randoms (in which case you have the same problem) or 100% private gals, which despite what some would like arn't feasable if the game wishes to keep going. therefore, i can see no solution to this problem other than vigalence, do you have one?

lack of galaxies
there seem to be two issues interacting here - the initial gal sizes and the adding of new members later on. first things first:
galaxies all have to have the same number of buddy packs in, be it 1, 2 or 3. therefore, in order to 'fix' your problem, would you suggest that galaxies only have one buddy pack in, and therefore the game runs with about 5 player galaxies?
wrt adding people later on. either people are added to existing galaxies, they might actually get in with someone who'll show them the game etc etc, they might even play again. the alternative is that they start in a glaxy in a high cluster, where there's noone to show them how to play and they're a farm. they might add a couple of hundred roids to the universe before they decide the game's shit and leave. yes, you get a few extra galaxies, but none of them are actually targets anyway.

therefore, solutions are to make gals with 5 players inc. one buddy pack at the start, or for alliances to get smaller. have you considered that the lack of targets in the universe might be because your allince is too big?

anyway, tbh, i don't expect the planets that join the game after tick 72 to be worth attacking by anyone in a large alliance, so i doubt that'll have much effect.

later buddy packs:
personally, i think that forming a new galaxy with 3 people in after the first few days of the round wil consign them to death. woohoo, they're dead with their mates. imo, putting people in galaxie where they're not automatically targets is more important than them being in buddy packs. plus, i can see all sorts of problems with people using the buddy packs to fly around the universe as the round progresses if they're not disabled.

spy planets:
again, this is an issue with all setups other than 100% private. admittedly, a spy can watch more planets in a larger gal, however the amount of planets who'll actually care they're being watched doesn't seem that much bigger, as they'll pretty much be confined to the buddy packs

what solution would you suggest, with regard to later planet placement? are you all for dumping them out in the cold where they'll play for a few days and then leave, so that alliances have to worry less about spies? or so that (bloated?) alliances can pretend to have more targets, while not actually being able to hit any more? because this is how it sounds. if you have a better suggestion i'm all ears, however thus far, you don't seem to...

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:06   #65
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Im concerned about how exilees come back into the game in the bottom 20% of the gals (by #)

Whats to stop someone exiling all bar 3 players, putting them in bottom, then getting their mates to exile at same time, effectively creating a private gal.
this was a problem that we addressed, and i think is covered.

example time:
there are 100 galaxies (probably will be more, but i like easy numbers)
this means that at any one time an excilee may end up in one of twenty galaxies
if a galaxy exiles down to three players, they have a 5% chance of getting each exile
if a galaxy exiles down to the bottom 20% of size, they have a 5% chance of getting each exile

ergo, the best 'private gal' you can manage has a 5% chance of working. if gals are average size of 10 this means you want 7 more players, you've got to exile 140 planets to get ones you want, and then trade ownership of them to the right people

imo, this is likely enough to get spotted as to be an acceptible risk, although i guess the 20% could be raised to 30, 40 or 50% if people are actually worried about it

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:07   #66
Rapsody
R4ps0dy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6
Rapsody is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Guys, I think the problem to all this is the free planets being treated like lessers...and they are lessers because of the certain benefits us paid planets have. I think you should make everyone upgraded for an evaluation period of..lets say; 100 ticks? Then the planet that exceeded that time and is not paid for will be degraded to a freebie. This way the new players get a small taste of being upgraded.As for newbies we cannot do anything because they don't know the game.
Cheers, Rapsody.
__________________
Planetarion!
SmallVille!
Women!
Rapsody is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:10   #67
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

now for an actual suggestion of my own

would it be possible to randomise the planets positions within the galaxy during the shuffle? this would make it (slightly) harder for alliances to identify each other, and hopefully reduce problems with people attacking the higher numbered planets as they're not likely to be in a good alliance

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:31   #68
Kloopy
-Back Again-
 
Kloopy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Posts: 707
Kloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud ofKloopy has much to be proud of
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conall
not enough gals, too few targets
You've got a very interesting point here. The numbers you suggest are about right, and this is a serious issue. I'm a little busy at the moment, so unless someone else comments soon I'll post later this evening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conall
Second this precludes latter joins from creating buddy packs which I see as a very negative proposition if you are trying to get new players in the game. It seems to me to be much more appealing for 2-3 friends to join the game late if they can be together.
Again, I'll recognise this as a possible issue but I'm stretched for time for a proper responce right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conall
Third issue is planets that are set up for the sole purpose of spying. I know the multihunters work diligently to stop this but where there is a will there is a way. But with few galaxies, then those that would do this have a much easier life and can take precautions to make catching them even less likely. One spy could effectively watch 20 planets or a galaxies could easily have 3 or 4 spies in it. This is greatly reduced with smaller galaxies.
Again, very valid I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conall
An alternative algorithm for allocating signups and exiles.
This bit I will be clear on though; This was the original suggested algorithm. However, we deemed this unacceptable due to the way it can be abused. If there were 0 galaxies with 5 members, and an alliance wanted to get someone into their gal (3:3), they could exile a random newbie from 3:3 and just after that, the person they want to join could self-exile (or return from the C200+ exile part of the universe, or signup) and be guaranteed of joining the correct galaxy.

I hope that makes it clear why we chose the proposed exile algorithm.
__________________
:: Plain Old Civilian :: http://www.kloopy.com :: [email protected] ::
:: Some people have six pack abdomens; I have a keg. ::
:: Beer - The reason I wake up every afternoon. ::
Kloopy is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 19:48   #69
LordBrem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
LordBrem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

The problem is when private gals and randoms are mixed.

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if any 15 person random gal could surpass my 5 person private one in activity/score/roids/etc.

However, it is easy for a semi-active private gal w/ a bunch of active randoms to beat a very active gal w/ no active randoms.

This proposal would be even worse. You would be guaranted TWO other active players. The remaining planets (7?) would be total luck. They might be active, or they might be scanners.

In another game like this, priv gals were 10 planets and randoms were 20. I don't think any random gals even made t50.
LordBrem is offline  
Unread 2 Nov 2004, 21:34   #70
Forest
Don't make me declare war
 
Forest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
Forest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet societyForest is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
this was a problem that we addressed, and i think is covered.

example time:
there are 100 galaxies (probably will be more, but i like easy numbers)
this means that at any one time an excilee may end up in one of twenty galaxies
if a galaxy exiles down to three players, they have a 5% chance of getting each exile
if a galaxy exiles down to the bottom 20% of size, they have a 5% chance of getting each exile

ergo, the best 'private gal' you can manage has a 5% chance of working. if gals are average size of 10 this means you want 7 more players, you've got to exile 140 planets to get ones you want, and then trade ownership of them to the right people

imo, this is likely enough to get spotted as to be an acceptible risk, although i guess the 20% could be raised to 30, 40 or 50% if people are actually worried about it

-mist
The numbers u quote seem ok. Just chceking it had been thought through.
20% seems fine to me.
Forest is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 00:17   #71
Conall
There is a better answer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 247
Conall will become famous soon enoughConall will become famous soon enough
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
measuring activity
there are always going to be people who get bored and quit, perhaps after 36 hours, perhaps after 72 hours, whatever. making the shuffle later could alleviate this problem, and i think it's already been considered if you look back at posts throughout the thread. the alternative to this is to just plonk planets randomly. would you prefer this? do you have a better way of placing planets based on activity?
You are right, people will get bored and quit. Those are not the ones I am concerned about with this issue, rather the ones that will readily cheat by abusing this system. I think we all desire to see a game that is fair top to bottom while still eliminating as much cheating as possible. A latter shuffle time is one method. SO is sending them randomly without regard to activity as well as an earlier shuffle. My point is this, PATeam needs to do what will have the least perceived impact on the game as possible. A later tick start puts a great deal of pressure on the multihunters to move fast but being accurate. Not a job I would relish in a community where even the slightest analysis is met with unwarranted hostility.

A potential solution is deleting all accounts that have not logged in during the 36 hour period and randomly dispersing all non-buddy pack planets. This way no bias can be claimed or faulty reasoning on activity. There is no incentive for someone to fain activity. While basing the shuffle on active appears to be desirable on the surface I am not sure that it would cause more grief than a complete random shuffle, after all ‘old skool” PA was completely random and exile option still exist.

If the shuffle was to take place based on activity then perhaps a quotient could be used to gauge activity. Perhaps (resources spent / resources earned) as a simple formula for a percentage gauge. Or perhaps a value % increase using a base line to be determined, perhaps quartiles or quintiles of value growth were the 1st quartile is distributed first evenly across the universe, the second quartile next and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
multi planets for position
this is going to be a problem for any shuffle. therefore, solutions are either for the multi hunters to be looking closely at things, or not not have a shuffle. not having a shuffle means either randoms (in which case you have the same problem) or 100% private gals, which despite what some would like arn't feasable if the game wishes to keep going. therefore, i can see no solution to this problem other than vigalence, do you have one?
You left out completely random galaxies, although I think this is no better solution than ignoring the issue because it always been a problem. And as I said that was my first past at the issue and needed more time to consider options as opposed to spouting a nonsensical solution or throwing my hands up. Perhaps a solution exist that hasn’t occurred to anyone before or one that has been suggested but ignored and never acted upon. That is the point of the thread to find the flaws and propose workable solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
lack of galaxies
there seem to be two issues interacting here - the initial gal sizes and the adding of new members later on. first things first:
galaxies all have to have the same number of buddy packs in, be it 1, 2 or 3. therefore, in order to 'fix' your problem, would you suggest that galaxies only have one buddy pack in, and therefore the game runs with about 5 player galaxies?
wrt adding people later on. either people are added to existing galaxies, they might actually get in with someone who'll show them the game etc etc, they might even play again. the alternative is that they start in a glaxy in a high cluster, where there's noone to show them how to play and they're a farm. they might add a couple of hundred roids to the universe before they decide the game's shit and leave. yes, you get a few extra galaxies, but none of them are actually targets anyway.
Perhaps new galaxies should be allowed to be created but giving the new players the options of joining existing galaxies or creating a new one if they choose to utilize buddy packs. But the only way a new galaxy is created is if there is not enough room for another buddy pack in an existing galaxy (utilizing the 2x3/3x2 system). If a new player chooses to go solo – no buddy pack – then they are distributed evenly across the universe. If they choose to sign up as a buddy pack (having the option of 1 or 2 mates) then they are either shuffled in to an existing galaxy with room for a buddy pack or a new galaxy is created. If a new galaxy is created then new players will be added to that galaxy until it reaches the mean or median size. Even with that I do believe a preset size should be set that galaxies do not go past. This is just to keep the game play active and not stagnating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
therefore, solutions are to make gals with 5 players inc. one buddy pack at the start, or for alliances to get smaller. have you considered that the lack of targets in the universe might be because your alliance is too big?
I don’t believe 100 planet alliance is too big. Besides alliances are the life blood of this game, they have been since I started playing in round 2 and that does not seem to have changed during my several round absence. There are numerous reasons targets get scarce, part is surely because of alliance restrictions, partly due to stat imbalances, part due an individuals planet size and so forth and do on. And I believe there are alternative solutions if one cares enough to work to find them. I have suggested a couple above and have no doubt there are many more viable options out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
anyway, tbh, i don't expect the planets that join the game after tick 72 to be worth attacking by anyone in a large alliance, so i doubt that'll have much effect.
Well I hope you are wrong. But beyond that, presumably Jolt is trying to attract new players all the time and hopefully some of those that join after tick 72 will pick the game up and do well. But that aside, new prime targets for the large alliances to roid isn’t what the purpose here is supposed to be. The goal is to get new players to try PA and hopefully pay to play and stay a Jolt customer for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
later buddy packs:
personally, i think that forming a new galaxy with 3 people in after the first few days of the round wil consign them to death. woohoo, they're dead with their mates. imo, putting people in galaxie where they're not automatically targets is more important than them being in buddy packs. plus, i can see all sorts of problems with people using the buddy packs to fly around the universe as the round progresses if they're not disabled.
Giving players the option on how they join the game would enhance Jolts ability to attract new players. Undoubtedly some will choose to join randomly and possibly some will want to buddy pack, they should have that option. As I believe a system can be constructed that can accommodate this choice without consigning any planet to death I think it is worth greater consideration. I have list several options above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
spy planets:
again, this is an issue with all setups other than 100% private. admittedly, a spy can watch more planets in a larger gal, however the amount of planets who'll actually care they're being watched doesn't seem that much bigger, as they'll pretty much be confined to the buddy packs
Who will be confined to buddy packs, certainly not the spies. As I stated earlier merely because the solution doesn’t slap us in the face with its obvious nature doesn’t mean we need to throw up our hands and consider it and unsolvable problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
what solution would you suggest, with regard to later planet placement? are you all for dumping them out in the cold where they'll play for a few days and then leave, so that alliances have to worry less about spies? or so that (bloated?) alliances can pretend to have more targets, while not actually being able to hit any more? because this is how it sounds. if you have a better suggestion i'm all ears, however thus far, you don't seem to...

-mist
mist, I am not sure why you see to think one needs all the solutions in order to post to this thread, nor am I sure why you have so much hostility toward alliances, but as I stated in my earlier post it was a first pass and more would come. I also think it helpful for people to voice their concerns even with out solutions such you have in the post I am quoting. Perhaps if we talk through the issues and work to find the solutions rather than trowing up our hands and saying there are no solutions then we can help PATeam/Jolt develop PA into a better game.
__________________
Conall - Rds 2-5, 11-?
I am Still.......

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
Sir Winston Churchill
Conall is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 00:53   #72
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

i asked if you had solutions because if a problem isn't solvable it's rather pointless talking about it.

there will be no perfect solution, whatever's done someone will complain. i agree that there are problems with this idea, however i also think it forms the best compromise between all of the problems that exist in this area.

it therefore annoys me when people suggest that there are problems with it, without suggesting a better method.

and i'm 'hostile' towards alliances because i see alliance HC threatening to leave the game if things don't go as they want. i see people shouting to get what will benefit them most, a la the zik stats for this round. it seems that a lot of people arn't interested in the good of the game, and alliances seem to tipfy that

that said, i was possibly a little ott. sorry :P

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 01:40   #73
Illogical
Property of merle
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sunny Scotland :P
Posts: 174
Illogical is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Hmmmm
how about have new players with no friends in the game all in mentor groups
e.g everyone that goes random ends in a mentor group, and have say 3 veteran players per group, who will help boost the score of the gal, and teach the members how to play, as having 1 per group means alot of stress on that one person especially if its around 20 people he needs to help out. with finding alliances, attacking, defending, using irc etc
__________________
[1up]
Illogical is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 03:38   #74
Conall
There is a better answer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 247
Conall will become famous soon enoughConall will become famous soon enough
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
i asked if you had solutions because if a problem isn't solvable it's rather pointless talking about it.

there will be no perfect solution, whatever's done someone will complain. i agree that there are problems with this idea, however i also think it forms the best compromise between all of the problems that exist in this area.

it therefore annoys me when people suggest that there are problems with it, without suggesting a better method.

and i'm 'hostile' towards alliances because i see alliance HC threatening to leave the game if things don't go as they want. i see people shouting to get what will benefit them most, a la the zik stats for this round. it seems that a lot of people arn't interested in the good of the game, and alliances seem to tipfy that

that said, i was possibly a little ott. sorry :P

-mist
No need to apologise, no offense taken. The way I post probably reflects how I work in the real world, which is to identify problems even when no obvious solution exist. It has proven effective in helping solve a great deal if problems over the years. That experience has created my bias toward putting problems on the table and pound on them until a solution is found. That said you wouldn't be the first that was a bit irritated by my methods regardless of outcome.
__________________
Conall - Rds 2-5, 11-?
I am Still.......

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.
Sir Winston Churchill
Conall is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 09:22   #75
Supply[HR]
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

I belive that if you put everyone into 20 gals like your proposing you will completly ruin r13. You must either do the shuffle and have set galaxies at tick 0 or give us a longer protection period. I don't see the point, rather, benifit of down-sizeing galaxies to 20 until tick 36.
 
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 10:17   #76
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

why?
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 13:56   #77
Judge
Doh!
 
Judge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
Judge is infamous around these parts
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Sorry to go off topic, but it is sorta realated:-

Just as a sort of "Bolt on" to the game how about you incude some basic instructions within the galaxy forum.

For example an idiots guide to IRC, and yes I know there are plenty of them on these forums and elswhere, but it would be ideal (imho) to have them within an easily accessable area. Along with a link to an IRC client that is all ready to go (set up to connect to NG) and that requires very little if any adjustment.

Or perhaps a basic start guide: IE which constructions/research to begin with, how to set engineering priorities and a further link to the manual.

Yes I know to all us "clued up" oldsters this is obvious, but it is not always so with new players.
__________________
Spinner: Kudos to Judge for having big cohones!
Judge is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 14:14   #78
Kal
Inactive peon
 
Kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
Kal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant futureKal has a brilliant future
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Sorry to go off topic, but it is sorta realated:-

Just as a sort of "Bolt on" to the game how about you incude some basic instructions within the galaxy forum.

For example an idiots guide to IRC, and yes I know there are plenty of them on these forums and elswhere, but it would be ideal (imho) to have them within an easily accessable area. Along with a link to an IRC client that is all ready to go (set up to connect to NG) and that requires very little if any adjustment.

Or perhaps a basic start guide: IE which constructions/research to begin with, how to set engineering priorities and a further link to the manual.

Yes I know to all us "clued up" oldsters this is obvious, but it is not always so with new players.
the passport should in theory make things like this mroe accessible, but your points are very valid.
__________________
Kal

Round 6-10 NoS member-->NoS junior HC
Round 10.5 FAnG member
Round 11-15 PATeam
Round 17-30 PATeam
Round 31 ???

Check out toastmonster.com for crazy illustrations and art
Kal is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 16:35   #79
august
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sweden, Gothenburg
Posts: 6
august is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

just one thingy to add to this thread " GO RANDOM GO RANDOM GO RANDOM" then it is up to the best ally and theh active peon himself how it goes to his planet *G*
__________________
I am who i am cant change it, nor will do that either.
august is offline  
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 19:43   #80
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

This is all "flip-flopping" if u ask me... why create all these elaborate systems???? when we all know they WILL have unsatisfied customers/players...



GO ALL RAMDOM. EVERY SINGLE SING UP SHOULD BE RAMDOM. and then people can try to cluster together by exiling, etc...
 
Unread 3 Nov 2004, 20:39   #81
LordBrem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
LordBrem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

No, full random is up to TOTAL LUCK of gal placement. Also known as this round sucks, and I for one am not paying a cent for it.
LordBrem is offline  
Unread 4 Nov 2004, 02:10   #82
Illogical
Property of merle
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sunny Scotland :P
Posts: 174
Illogical is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

unless they implement an activity thingy, so if you only login twice in 72 hours you get put with other people that have same activity, but then youd get farm gals, and if someone was busy for first 2 days they be fecked etc

there is major pros + cons to everything thats changed in this game now though, its a bit shit.
__________________
[1up]
Illogical is offline  
Unread 4 Nov 2004, 23:55   #83
Hunk
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Why are we so desperate to stiffle alliance control of galaxies with the limit to buddy pack size? As some other people have said, aren't alliances the life-blood of the game, as they contain the core players who return round after round?
What's fun about a galaxy containing groups from three different alliances who have to elect a "comprimise" leader (or none at all). There will certainly be little to no galaxy unity.
I much prefer at least half the galaxy allowed as privates. If it is under the control of an alliance then I imagine they'd be more inclined to help the randoms in their galaxy onto bigger and better things.
 
Unread 5 Nov 2004, 09:33   #84
DEATH2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9
DEATH2 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

the main alliances try not to get a whole gal that is full of their players. because this creates a large target to be hit.
they would much rather have a few of their planets with some from another alliance. this reduces the amount of incoming because, as has already been mentioned, alliances rarely attack gals containing their members.
DEATH2 is offline  
Unread 5 Nov 2004, 10:53   #85
Netvyper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 9
Netvyper is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

ok, 2 things and your probably gonna like the first more than the second

1) For the 20 Gals with a mentor thingeh, since there will be a shuffle, why not make the first 10 gals with Mentors as planet 1, and then when people sign up, simply have a checkbox to "Skip Mentor Gal" or similar, or perhaps when your planet is upgraded you move out of the mentor gal, so that those who are new can be in the mentor gals until the shuffle at whatever tick(tick60 is good)

2) As this idea came to me, it was that you have a cluster for each alliance, with randoms allocated equally between the clusters, thereby you have your 'hardcore' alliance players running to take the rankings & the roids. But nurturing your Random/Free Players is also important, however i can see several major problems with this, such as those smaller alliances who are groups of friends etc, so perhaps the Top 20 Alliances could get a 'cluster' each, then have the randoms allocated by score, starting with the highest random score into the cluster with the lowest score.

Anyways, i think i need to think a little more about it, but the essentials of the idea are thus:

Alliances are the 'Core' of the game, and henceforth any structure that puts the in direct confrontation is good, but it also provides ingame 'formality'
Nurturing the Random/Free Planets in your cluster becomes an essentiallity, and there are obviously more people to do so in a cluster than a gal.
People would 'automatically' join an alliance, providing them with insight into the game, and help.
"Any score is good score" with a non-capped number of players per cluster/gal, shunning of inexperienced players is likely to be reduced.


As an additional Note, Buddy groups could be used to create gals within these clusters, and also the option to be allocated randomly within your cluster is a must.

Im not sure how much this makes sense, its been a while since i slept, but certainly in my head, it could make for an interesting round
Please folks, pick it apart.


As for the inital post, of is the proposal a good one... Well its certainly better than this round!!
Netvyper is offline  
Unread 5 Nov 2004, 17:12   #86
themast
Punk
 
themast's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 397
themast is infamous around these partsthemast is infamous around these partsthemast is infamous around these partsthemast is infamous around these partsthemast is infamous around these partsthemast is infamous around these parts
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

bring back the full priv gals and random gals
__________________
Rd13 SiNND (12:4:3)
Rd6&7 4D (20:8:6) & (20:2:10) Rd14 ND (2:5:4)
Rd8 Did not play Rd15 Did not play
Rd9 4D/SWaRM (13:4:10) Rd16 ND (14:1:6)
Rd9.5 SWaRM (42:7:4) Rd17 ND (13:10:8)
Rd10 SWaRM (21:4:7) Rd18 ND (13:6:8)
Rd10.5 SWaRM (5:5:10) Rd19 ND - HC (1:9:3)
Rd11 ND (32:2:10) Rd36 ND 7:9:7
Rd12 ND (30:10:1)
themast is offline  
Unread 6 Nov 2004, 12:28   #87
M666
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5
M666 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Just a idea for the problem with 2 x 3 Packs or 3 x 2 Packs

Have 3 per Pack as standard, and if people only want 2 in a pack then they get a random paid added to the them, that would make it alot harder to for alliance to influence there placing

Also l like Myst idea with having the planet numbers in gal randomised - just to create a little confusion

As for controling the gal
2 x 3 packs makes sence - 1 will get "control" of the gal, the one that helps the n00bs the most giving an incentive to help them out.

As pointed out by Conall earlier i think number of gals is going to be a real problem
M666 is offline  
Unread 6 Nov 2004, 15:04   #88
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiff
I would suggest going back to ~25 player galaxies...
Reason being:
One needs a couple of galm8s online in order to arrange some def. With 10 player gals, that are not always filled and always contain a couple of inactives, this is almost impossible except for the VERY active galaxies with 24/7 players.
I myself can logon a couple of times per day, but can't be online round the clock (working..) I think 4 ppl in this category, larger gals would make things more interesting.
with 25 ppl/gal u lose many gals...(and to hard to atack)
in my opinion there should be 15 guys/gal


well and good idea would be this:

I would prefer to design my owen ships. You can add more armour, guns(guns aim special targets so u can put on bs class anti co guns or anti de guns or... whatever u want... or maybe a mix of (two) guns...).... faster travelspeed etc... but if u have better quaility u have to pay more resources on it
well and u have better init with faster guns... or maybe low init cause of heavy amour etc...

and u have to set some models... so u have to choose at the start what u wanna have...
u need to construct facilities too which can produce high tech stuff...
there should be also upgradable technology for weopens armour etc. (research)


well at least a ship should be able to aim two ship classes...
the system now suxx...(only one target ship class)


and at least weight the system better(races...) ter just get rapped by xan
 
Unread 6 Nov 2004, 16:02   #89
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
with 25 ppl/gal u lose many gals...(and to hard to atack)
in my opinion there should be 15 guys/gal
Ps: up to 10 private players and rest random ;-)
 
Unread 7 Nov 2004, 01:23   #90
Gladiator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

if u made galaxies of 10 privates THAT WOULD RUINE THE GAME.

Again, as in the past, there would be 10 players who are experiensed, 10 players who may be living in the same dorm, 10 players who have all figured out, who's taking a watch when and who's doing what. In the first glance it might look perfect. let the most organised and experiences players win. but what about people who didnt get into that private galaxy. lets, even, say. there were 11 friends. so 1 friend is left out and might land in the worst galaxy of the universe. Is that fair? he's experiences, he's organised! Ok, he would most likely be defended most of the time, but what about lone warriors. ppl who are experienced, who know how to attack and defend, know shipstats better then their name, but who are not on mirc and can not get an alliance. they will be doomed. random galaxies will never win against private ones.

And finaly new players. if they come to galaxies were they are constantly attacked and have a 3000rank they will lose interest very soon.
PA-team is suggesting a perfect way out. all galaxies will have a chance to lead. all will have same ammount (or similar) of players and all galaxies will have same score (at the begining), wich usualy tells how good players are in those galaxies. That meens total galactical experience will be similar for all galaxies!!!
New players will have a chance too. freebies will see their galaxy is in top10 and upgrade their accounts to have more fun etc.etc.etc.

number of planets... i dont know... liked when it was 25 most, but it doesnt realy matter.
i'd prefare 15. the lesser galaxies, the easier for alliances to roid them!! if galaxy has 15ppl there''s 5% more ppl to cover for alliance. that needs more planning and galaxies would be atatcked not as often and they could defend more often.

Pack thing... whatever... wount harm too much. why do you people think, that there will be competition inbetween the galaxy?
Right now all alliances are telling Alliance is first, then goes galaxy. i dont know if thats right... if your galaxy is killed no alliance will save your ass on the other hand, if your galaxy is under attacks u, alone, wount save it, u need alliances help. and everyone understands that galaxy is important to save, alliance is the way to save galaxy, not realy induvidual planets. one planet will never survive or atleast get high ranks... everyone understands it and treats their galaxies like alliances and like friends.
 
Unread 7 Nov 2004, 02:58   #91
LordBrem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
LordBrem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiator
if u made galaxies of 10 privates THAT WOULD RUINE THE GAME.

Again, as in the past, there would be 10 players who are experiensed, 10 players who may be living in the same dorm, 10 players who have all figured out, who's taking a watch when and who's doing what. In the first glance it might look perfect. let the most organised and experiences players win. but what about people who didnt get into that private galaxy. lets, even, say. there were 11 friends. so 1 friend is left out and might land in the worst galaxy of the universe. Is that fair? he's experiences, he's organised! Ok, he would most likely be defended most of the time, but what about lone warriors. ppl who are experienced, who know how to attack and defend, know shipstats better then their name, but who are not on mirc and can not get an alliance. they will be doomed. random galaxies will never win against private ones.
So most of the the history of this game has been a ruin?

if you are the 11th friend, clearly you should blame your friends for not including you. Of course, under this system, it would be the fourth friend. But that is hardly relevant.

If you have TEN ACTIVE PLAYERS WHO COOPERATE, they should beat TEN RANDOM PLAYERS WHO ARE INACTIVE 100% of the time. That is what is fair. What is NOT fair is basing final gal rankings solely upon the luck of how active the randoms in your gal happen to be. Because the vast majority of decently active players are not going to be random.

Finally, new players would be treated EXACTLY the same, except for the tiny minority who end up in fully active gals. Note that a) it if very unlikely such a person will pay anyway, as without an alliance there is no chance they will get defence, and b) such people are not who we should be aiming to please, but the core of players who pay every round and are active.

When my gal was t10 this round, our freebies neither paid nor did our paid randoms become more active. In fact, several of them quit. If you go random, you don't intend to play seriously, and there is very little that can change that.

Alliance comes before galaxy when galaxy is random. If you think gals come first, tell that to the random who (two weeks into the round) decided to join an ally at war with the majority of our allies and then organized several attacks our gal. This could not have happened if the gal was fully private, as it should have been.
LordBrem is offline  
Unread 7 Nov 2004, 22:26   #92
higginz
||Dude||
 
higginz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: wigan, england
Posts: 119
higginz will become famous soon enoughhigginz will become famous soon enough
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

I think this system is a good idea in the interest of fairness overall. If u wanna be a big planet, then u n ur buddys can help each other as u know theyll be about ur size. If u want ur gal to be bigger, u gotta work together and help all the players, not jus urselves. This gives all players a chance, not jus the seasoned veterans as if the veterans want to succeed they gotta help the noobs too.

Its worth a shot for one round at least. I know ur gonna call me a noob now, cos ofc the veterans mainly wont want this, but I think it will add another dimension to the game so its worth a shot
__________________
[APA] - The monkeys will come back eventually
higginz is offline  
Unread 8 Nov 2004, 19:27   #93
Gladiator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Exactly. i totaly agree. this system looks perfect.

Now... Lordbrem. As i said. some people either can't get into private galaxies or they just dont't do that for some other reason. i was in private galaxies most of the time, but not in all rounds. this round again. i was a random and i was an unpaid random. and ofcourse i landed in the shities galaxy ever... now its still less then a million score... i am a good player, why dont i deserve to land in a good galaxy with equal chances only cause i didnt pay upfront and i didnt join a private galaxy??? I changed 7 galaxies and now i am in a 7million galaxy now (pretty decent) and im biggest in it.
The galaxies of privates only are very good for them, but not for randoms even if they are good. and this new system of pa makes it so everyone has a chance to be on top. It will all depend a only a little on luck and alot alot more on they GC and ministers. they will have to be extra active (4 ppl only), convince ppl how to play, teach noobies what to do and how to grow faster. they will be forced to do that to grow fastest. that will make the game friendlies, the galaxies friendlier.
This should be the perfect round.
 
Unread 8 Nov 2004, 20:22   #94
LordBrem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
LordBrem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

You are assuming that all randoms want to do well. When you have two IDENTICAL gals, except that one has active randoms, and the other has ones that are not willing to be active/pay/etc. it is not fair. You can not fault privates because the randoms they were given do not want to be active. Not everyone cares about this game; if you do, you should be able to have a gal with others who feel the same way.

Going random is just stupid, period. Also, if you notice, unpaid planets are quite limited. They aren't meant to be on top.
LordBrem is offline  
Unread 8 Nov 2004, 21:12   #95
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

lordbrem, other than private galaxies, what would you suggest as a solution?

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 8 Nov 2004, 22:24   #96
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

Idea #1

1. GO ALL RAMDOM with

2. galaxies of 10 paid accounts

3. And let people exile for cheap during the first 72 hours, so they can try to cluster together.


Idea #2

THEN, have 4 galaxies of free accounts. Each with a "mentor team" (ministers). One per race, in which u group all the free planets by race. Have them then auto-exile when they reach a certain score (i.e. 1M).


Dictator
 
Unread 8 Nov 2004, 22:41   #97
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

your first solution doesn't include freebies, so isn't feasable

your second solution means that either:
if gals have a max size, the less dedicated players end up packed together at the end of the universe, where they'll be roided in to oblivion and not want to play again
if gals have no max size, the less dedicated players will get added to the end of galaxies just like they would if they'd been added at the origonal shuffle

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Unread 8 Nov 2004, 22:55   #98
old n00b
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

I've read the first replies and some of them say that people that have free-accounts doesn't upgrade. that is totally wrong. I started this round, just for fun, just to try it out. I ended up with being in a top 30 gal with an upgraded account and in a top ally. So I think the current system actually works
 
Unread 9 Nov 2004, 06:04   #99
LordBrem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 77
LordBrem is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

mist, I think we should have private gals.

If you want randoms to have a chance, make random gals have 2x the planets (either 5/10 or 10/20 or even 5/15).
LordBrem is offline  
Unread 9 Nov 2004, 12:53   #100
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Round XIII Galaxies

private gals arn't an option.

it's not about giving randoms a chance, it's about giving them an opertunity to see the game, learn to play and possibly come back. while they *might* not get so pulped in a random gal that's 4 or 5 times larger than a private one (tho i'm not at all convinced - i'd think 5 man private and 25 man random would be needed, at least) it would still leave them with the less able players, which would be bad for the game

if you want the game to loose more players then private gals are a great idea, but most people seem to think pa would be better with more planets. you can't have both

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018