yet another year of stupidly high results

[Zar]

a-levels are a complete farce

[Embroglio]

and the people who took a and as levels this year are ****ing ****s who i hate

[roadrunner_0]

they arent a complete farce, they just need to be looked at in a different context

[Zar]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

they arent a complete farce, they just need to be looked at in a different context

they're getting easier and easier and easier and easier and easier?

[Sarina_Joy]

yup students cannot possibly be getting better.....impossible.

[JC]

This pisses me off every year. Kids work their guts out every year to do the best they can in their exams, then as soon as the results come out they get told by the news etc that they arent actually that good and the exams are piss easy. I feel sorry for them, they can only sit the exams that are put in front of them so give them a break .

[Rids]

JC

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by JC

This pisses me off every year. Kids work their cuts out every year to do the best they can in their exams, then as soon as the results come out they get told by the news etc that they arent actually that good and the exams are piss easy. I feel sorry for them, they can only sit the exams that are put in front of them so give them a break .

**** them. **** them in the face.

[Zar]

Originally Posted by JC

This pisses me off every year. Kids work their cuts out every year to do the best they can in their exams, then as soon as the results come out they get told by the news etc that they arent actually that good and the exams are piss easy. I feel sorry for them, they can only sit the exams that are put in front of them so give them a break .

blame the educational authority then...that the exams arent challenging enough for the more able students...

however no matter how hard they work, how bright the student is, the fact doesn't change

a-levels are getting easier and easier each year, far too many people are getting higher grades and it doesnt do justice to those who really put in the effort and are a par above the other 1 billion A grade students

[JC]

Originally Posted by Zar

blame the educational authority then...that the exams arent challenging enough for the more able students...

however no matter how hard they work, how bright the student is, the fact doesn't change

a-levels are getting easier and easier each year, far too many people are getting higher grades and it doesnt do justice to those who really put in the effort and are a par above the other 1 billion A grade students

The clever students end up going to uni, getting a good degree, going onto a masters, doing a phd, becoming a prof.

If you are clever you can still prove yourself eventually.

[roadrunner_0]

ha it not occured to you zar that it might just be that the general level of intelligence is higher now than it used to be?
with more educational problems identified at an earlier age, people are simply more able to fulfill their potential?
now, i happen to agree that the actually exams themselves might not be as hard as they could be, but the way certain agencies are down on the students every year is really no good to anyone at all.

[Zar]

Originally Posted by JC

The clever students end up going to uni, getting a good degree, going onto a masters, doing a phd, becoming a prof.

If you are clever you can still prove yourself eventually.

yeh but you also have to compete with less able students to get the original university place.

[Obliterate]

I hate the people who, every year, blame the high amount of good grades in exams on the fact that exams are getting easier. Personally, I didn't find the AS levels easy at all - and I worked hard to acheieve my good grades. It pisses me off when people like you try and demean my acheivements.

[Zar]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

ha it not occured to you zar that it might just be that the general level of intelligence is higher now than it used to be?
with more educational problems identified at an earlier age, people are simply more able to fulfill their potential?
now, i happen to agree that the actually exams themselves might not be as hard as they could be, but the way certain agencies are down on the students every year is really no good to anyone at all.

intelligence and teaching abilities may have gone up, but people who are in denial about how easy the a-levels have become really need to realise the differences between 2002+ papers and those Pre-2002 and even earlier.

Key differences between 2000 style paper and 2004 style paper (do correct me if im wrong):

i) AS which is less than half the difficulty of an A2 exam counts for half the A-level. This is silly

ii) A-levels are split into modules taken as exams over various periods. Again very silly. You can split your whole exam over 2 years into little bits (making each bit easier as you only have to study for one module per exam period)

iii) You can resit modules that you have done badly in. Example: Imagine resitting Pure 1 after you have done Pure 3 in maths. Utterly stupid. Also resitting exams makes it easier.

Also i suggest you actually go to some sort of archive and physically compare exams of the early 90's and even earlier, to those of today. Todays exams will feel like kiddy exams in comparison.

Students also need to be englightened to the fact that they are not as smart as they think they are just because they got good A-Level results. It wouldnt be fair on them if they suddenly realised this a few years down the line when they are utterly tramped in the real world by the deservedly smart bunch

[JC]

Originally Posted by Zar

yeh but you also have to compete with less able students to get the original university place.

If the student is that great (s)he will have 4 As or more, which despite what you ramble on about isnt that easy to achieve. They will also presumably have a bunch of A*'s at GCSE. If they are applying for Oxbridge, which presumably someone of the caliber you seem to be on about would be, they'll have an interview and so the interviewer will be able to select the great from the not so great in that interview.

[Dante Hicks]

When I did them (back in 1998) A-Levels were the hardest exams I'd done (and have done up until now). OK, I didn't do any real study or anything for them, but they were significantly harder than my degree or my current MSc (at an allegedly good university).

But still, A-Levels are a farce and always will be while we have such an overall shit education system.

[Zar]

Originally Posted by JC

If the student is that great (s)he will have 4 As or more, which despite what you ramble on about isnt that easy to achieve. They will also presumably have a bunch of A*'s at GCSE. If they are applying for Oxbridge, which presumably someone of the caliber you seem to be on about would be, they'll have an interview and so the interviewer will be able to select the great from the not so great in that interview.

not everyone applies to oxbridge (but you do have a point), and most of the other top unis in this country dont interview so the problem still exists.

Going beyond the better uni's you have an even bigger problem in the medium calibre unis (which im assuming the majority of the country applies to)

[roadrunner_0]

a lot of uni's interview now, christ, when i applied, all of the ones i wanted to go to wanted interviews, they also wanted 2 B's and a C out of me. which, due to various reasons, i didnt get, yet, UMIST, my first choice and one of the top uni's for my degree, still accepted me? why then if competition was so fierce? (which it was for my course) i think its due to the fact that a lot of universities now look beyond the A level grading system, but hey, everyone is allowed an opinion, right?

[Zar]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

i think its due to the fact that a lot of universities now look beyond the A level grading system,

yup - because its shit!

[roadrunner_0]

no, quite frankly, its one of oxbridges few ideas that all universities should take up, not due to the fact that the A levels are shit, simply due to the fact that it's a good idea

[Dante Hicks]

I wish more universities interview. My grades are generally shit but I do well in interviews.

[roadrunner_0]

yeah, i have a friend who has just done terribly bad in her exams, she is (imho) more intelligent than me, and deserves a uni place much more than i ever did, yet, she hasnt got in, i still say that if she had actually had an interview then her chances would have been much greater

as you can probably tell, im way for interviews before uni

[Demon Dave]

Originally Posted by JC

This pisses me off every year. Kids work their guts out every year to do the best they can in their exams, then as soon as the results come out they get told by the news etc that they arent actually that good and the exams are piss easy. I feel sorry for them, they can only sit the exams that are put in front of them so give them a break .

JC is teh win, as usual. as a student who just got my AS results today, i can tell you that the A-Levels are NOT as easy as some of you would like us to believe. i did reasonably well at GCSE's (2 A's, 5 B's and 4 C's if i remember correctly), however, today i got a B for Computing, D for Physics and Electronics and U for Maths. Now maths wasn't a surprise, i was expecting that. But, considering that one of my A's for GCSE's was in Physics, the D was a bit disappointing. I am curious to know how many of the people saying that the A-Levels are getting easier have actually taken any recently

[Rumad]

As someone who is bitter and twisted I say this........


WELL DONE EVERYONE WHO DID WELL*



*Hopefully I can pay lower taxes at some point in the future as these kids earn more cash

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

JC is teh win, as usual. as a student who just got my AS results today, i can tell you that the A-Levels are NOT as easy as some of you would like us to believe. i did reasonably well at GCSE's (2 A's, 5 B's and 4 C's if i remember correctly), however, today i got a B for Computing, D for Physics and Electronics and U for Maths. Now maths wasn't a surprise, i was expecting that. But, considering that one of my A's for GCSE's was in Physics, the D was a bit disappointing. I am curious to know how many of the people saying that the A-Levels are getting easier have actually taken any recently

gcses are even easier than a-levels (proportionally)

[roadrunner_0]

zar, seriously... wtf? are set as a lead up to a levels,
Everyone knows that the WHOLE education system needs a shake up, HOWEVER, people constantly harping on about 'this exam being crap ' and 'that exam being easy' ARE NOT helping matters

[Dace]

The exams are both crap and easy.

[roadrunner_0]

your crap and easy (or so i have heard) LOLZORZ

(sorry dace, couldnt resist )

ps, you sorted next week with deffeh yet?

[Deepflow]

i got CCEU at my a levels

i think exams are unfairly weighted against lazy people! whos with me?

[Zar]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

zar, seriously... wtf? are set as a lead up to a levels,
Everyone knows that the WHOLE education system needs a shake up, HOWEVER, people constantly harping on about 'this exam being crap ' and 'that exam being easy' ARE NOT helping matters

but they are easier (gcses). They're a living joke. You can almost get away with doing NO work and come out with decent grades.

As for helping matters - if no-one commented on the a-levels in their current state, there would be no debate - and with no debate, there would be no change. The a-levels desperately need a shakeup, and the reason is because they are too easy, and there are far too many high (indistinguishable) grades being released. If nothing is done about it, the situation will only get worse.

Not only will the standard of Universities have to drop, to take into consideration that their pupils arent as well versed in their pre-requisites for their respective degrees (hence waste more time teaching them the fundamentals), but also british pupils will have a harder time competing against pupils from other nations who will leave school at 18 with far greater academic knowledge. It is imperative that something is done about it, and those living in denial, only live in denial because they dont want anything to devalue their effort (which is fair enough)

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Deepflow

i think exams are unfairly weighted against lazy people! whos with me?

I would be, but I can't be bothered.

I got ACD at A-Levels without really paying attention. I would have done four A-Levels but that meant staying later than 1pm on a couple of days which was definitely a no-no.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Zar

The a-levels desperately need a shakeup, and the reason is because they are too easy, and there are far too many high (indistinguishable) grades being released. If nothing is done about it, the situation will only get worse.

Any educational system which is based giving you a "score", "grade" or whatever at the end is demeaning to the human spirit.

but also british pupils will have a harder time competing against pupils from other nations who will leave school at 18 with a far greater academic knowledge.

So what? Foriegn students are basically a cash producing exercise for decent universities anyway. I doubt academic education has any serious impact on important things (like productivity).

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Any educational system which is based giving you a "score", "grade" or whatever at the end is demeaning to the human spirit.
So what? Foriegn students are basically a cash producing exercise for decent universities anyway. I doubt academic education has any serious impact on important things (like productivity).

but what if british universities cant offer the same academic excellence as they did in the past - because their students arent as well versed? Degrees become marginally and slowly easier (majority of students in british universities are british), while students abroad become smarter and with more knowledge. Wanting a degree that will put them one step ahead of the game, might mean that they look for alternative nations to study, other countries snap them up, and british universites lose their almost (after the usa - and even if this isnt true - accept it for the point im making)) academic monopoly on the world.

In the long term, assuming that brain-drain and gain arent large enough to shift patterns, britain loses out.

[roadrunner_0]

the media crucifying the A levels every year isnt debate though, its a lynch mob (albeit a very sedate one by lynch mob standards) and how depressing do you think it is if you have to see all the front pages on the way to picking your exam results up?

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by Zar

In the long term, assuming that brain-drain and gain arent large enough to shift patterns, britain loses out.

talking about brain drain the whole of europe is already missing out to america, and has been for a long time, simply due to the fact that the US govt. puts a lot more money into research, so dont even bring that point into it

[LHC]

Hey guys I am claiming this thread:

Politics: A
Maths: B
History: B
General Studies: D
Chemistry: E

:|

[Deepflow]

its your own fault for taking a subject like CHEMISTRY in the first place

[LHC]

I thought I had done okay in it.

[roadrunner_0]

i liked chem, i was doing biochemistry at UMIST, it rocked

[Apothos]

I realised how pish the A-levels were when i managed three A's and a B with the minimum of effort in 1999. And i'm not the brightest bulb on the tree.

[Sunday8pm]

My personal problem with how the education system works now is that there is so much pressure from school league tables and parents that they want to see their children achieve results, less effort is required on part of the children to get them.

Why is this? Cause if they think a test has been in particular 'too hard' they lower the pass percentage on the test, in fact I Remember of a case where you only had to score 40 ****ing percent to pass in maths I think it was? Cause while the test covered what everyone should do in maths it was totally unrelated to the past papers of the 5-10 years before.....

It is humiliating tbh, the appeal system is even worse and the amount of students PASSING is the problem, the amount of students getting A's with flying colours for all I know is prolly the same, or more or less and that's great, it's the amount of c passes with a couple of b's in shitty topics that make a load of ignorant brats eligible to apply for positions in uni, places in the uni campus and degrade the academical enviroment of university, at least for first years.

For example what canadians learn here in computing in High school would put anyone who had even got an HND in computing to shame (that's higher than an A-Level) it is literally that poor a level of education we get there.

As for the issue of testing, we all know that's internally flawed as a way of measuring someone's ability anyway and the majority of the pass marks should be based on course assessed work imo, so long as the teacher was good, but teaching standards are also ridiculous....

I don't quite agree with how testing people intensely over the space of 2-3 weeks on 5 subjects which are usually strongly varied that will decide if they pass or fail irregardless of how they performed ON the course during the year. It is not comparable to real life situation.

The sooner they make courses harder, offer more vocational courses and stop pleasing the adults that their retard child can now go to uni cause he scraped a BCCC cause they lowered the pass mark and force their child to perhaps take up a position in the workforce at an earlier age which imo would probably be the best career advice they could get at that time or at least force them to buck up and fight through college and then uni if they didn't have the mindset to do it right in high school, is a lot better for the whole in the long term.

I know many people will probably refute my claims etc but the UK educational system used to be held in high esteem, but I can assure you it's not funny to see the faces of North Americans who had went over to the UK to study at university with the notion that they would be surrounded by academically gifted people, to find that their halls are full of jocks and tarts in the first year.

It's rather embarrassing.

[vampire_lestat]

has it occured to any of you that the people who make the news are a bunch of lying ****s?

hate to break it to you, but exam results are mean tested, meaning that the better people do in the exams in general (% wise) the higher the boundaries for the grades. The same ammount of people, as a percentage, who take the course get A grades every year, unless the exam board changes the way they measure slightly so that the grades are more evenly spread out.
the only reason there are more A grades is because there are more people taking exams. Yes, some exams arn't hard enough, like salters physics, but as a general rule you cannot blame the fact that people get good grades on the fact that it was 'harder in your day', that's just trying to satisfy a sense of superiority that you harbour with no reason.

[Obliterate]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

and how depressing do you think it is if you have to see all the front pages on the way to picking your exam results up?

It was very depressing.

But I got 3 A's in french, german and psychology and a B in biology today. So I'm happy no matter how easy anyone not doing them claims they are

[JC]

You arent on IRC so i'll have to do it here. Congrats mate .

[Obliterate]

Thanks

I needed 16 more marks for an A in biology. It's a pretty safe B though so hopefully I can keep it that way for the full A-Level!

[vampire_lestat]

i got me an A in maths, a B in maths, an A in physics, an A in critical thinking (DOSS!!!!), and a B in computing.

it was good for me .

(100% in M1 )

[Sunday8pm]

Actually there are less people taking exams now than their used to be in a proportionate sense because of the fact that we are well past the baby boomer generation that had went through high school etc.

You may not of noticed but a lot of schools and high schools in the last 5-10 years have been merged or closed down due to dwindling children figures, yet somehow this hasn't fixed class sizes.

But that's another topic altogether (somewhat to do with the migration of rural to city and other things).

[Deffeh]

Originally Posted by JC

This pisses me off every year. Kids work their guts out every year to do the best they can in their exams, then as soon as the results come out they get told by the news etc that they arent actually that good and the exams are piss easy. I feel sorry for them, they can only sit the exams that are put in front of them so give them a break .

I stopped reading this thread cause it should have been closed after this post.

[Sunday8pm]

Which was infactual, the fact of the matter is there has only been complaints about it being too easy when it became common knowledge that they'd lower pass marks as low as to 40% for a C if they believed the test in that subject had been too hard that year...... it totally devalued the grading system.

[JonnyBGood]

I hear stupid people are stupid.


Edit: Now I feel guilty because this is a new page


So here's an opinion for you. Why should exams be exactly as difficult one year as the next? People aren't being ranked on how intelligent they are (shut up dante), it's a test designed to provide a basic idea on your ability to assimiliate knowledge and perform in a high-pressure scenario. However it is possible to assimiliate knowledge in a large number of ways. Does the fact I knew where Equatorial Guinea was when I was 11 make me better than someone who only learned it during class the year leading up to the exam? We both possess the same knowledge at this point in time. Assuming he was studying properly (if he wasn't he probably won't do well in his exams so we'll know then anyways) he'll retain that knowledge. Yet many people would say that I'm somehow "more intelligent" than the other guy. I wasn't born with that knowledge embedded in my brain. I just liked reading and had an interest in geography.

On another note if the purpose of exams is to evaluate you in terms of third-level education/work suitability exams definitely shouldn't be the same difficulty over extended periods of time as the number of college places will change, as will the demands of the "working world".