Planetarion Forums - Holy Crap, Apple Knowledge base blows chunks...

Intrepid00 · 14 May 2004, 04:24

Quicktime is being a bitch as usual. So I go and check out the support pages. Check out bullet point #2.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60765

Obliterate · 14 May 2004, 07:54

I don't get it?

MrL_JaKiri · 14 May 2004, 08:21

Given you have to pay for all of apple's proprietry disk analysing tools (scan disk, defragmenter), then they're obviously of the opinion that IT MUST SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS, otherwise why would people buy it?

Tactitus · 14 May 2004, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Given you have to pay for all of apple's proprietry disk analysing tools (scan disk, defragmenter), then they're obviously of the opinion that IT MUST SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS, otherwise why would people buy it?

Windows users have to buy scandisk from Apple? I thought it came with Windows?

Dante Hicks · 14 May 2004, 14:29

That's what they want you to think.

Nodrog · 14 May 2004, 14:55

this thread makes no sense at all, at all

Tactitus · 14 May 2004, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

That's what they want you to think.

Is it? I'm not seeing that, but whatever. :/

queball · 14 May 2004, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

this thread makes no sense at all, at all

"Apple Knowledge base" refers to the stage in a relationship where people share a high level of intimate knowledge. This thread's maker is a fearless casanova (the pseudonym Intrepid00 refers to his personality and love of boobies) and is getting frustrated because he finds that girls ask for ridiculous levels of caring that no-one would ever provide, and he wishes that we could all just be more realistic and live in peace.

MrL_JaKiri · 14 May 2004, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactitus

Windows users have to buy scandisk from Apple? I thought it came with Windows?

You misunderstood my post.

You thought it meant that apple were implying it did more than it does because they wanted to sell more units.

I actually said that apple only sell the equivilent tools because they think it does more than it actually does.

Understand now?

queball · 14 May 2004, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You misunderstood my post.

You thought it meant that apple were implying it did more than it does because they wanted to sell more units.

I actually said that apple only sell the equivilent tools because they think it does more than it actually does.

Understand now?

I think he was arguing more about the factual basis. What product are you saying Apple sell, exactly? Not that your argument seems to make much sense anyway, something like "Apple think it's necessary, so they sell it as an add-on".

edit: actually, you don't make any sense in this thread at all, and I'm not sure if you're being nonsensical on purpose.

Dante Hicks · 14 May 2004, 17:31

Well, I actually was being nonsensical on purpose if it matters.

MrL_JaKiri · 14 May 2004, 17:32

[quote=queball]I think he was arguing more about the factual basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by queball

What product are you saying Apple sell, exactly?

For MacOS IX (not sure about X), the official disk management tools (such as defragmenting) weren't included in the OS, but came in a sort of OS IX PLUS pack thing that you had to pay for.

queball · 14 May 2004, 18:01

Firstly, "OS 9". It had Disk First Aid, roughly equivalent to scandisk, though like with MS's OS, some people like to feel special and buy something by Norton. You were the first to mention defragmenting - just checking a disk for errors like the linked article suggests is something much more mundane. Optimising a file structure shouldn't be necessary so it's not included. Seems fair enough. I don't think Apple sold their own defragmenting tool, but if they did, I don't see how it's relevant.

Tactitus · 14 May 2004, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You misunderstood my post.

You thought it meant that apple were implying it did more than it does because they wanted to sell more units.

I actually said that apple only sell the equivilent tools because they think it does more than it actually does.

Understand now?

Well, I understand that you seem to be confused. :/

Quote:

For MacOS IX (not sure about X), the official disk management tools (such as defragmenting) weren't included in the OS, but came in a sort of OS IX PLUS pack thing that you had to pay for.

As a long time user of both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X, that's certainly news to me. Apple did not provide a disk defragmentation utility in OS 9 and the only alternatives were third-party utilities (as this article makes clear). In Mac OS X the disk utility has some defragmentation capabilities and it's included with the OS (although there are still third-party utilities which purport to do a more thorough job).

Apple's position regarding disk defragmentation on Mac OS has always been somewhat skeptical. Your assertion that Apple sells such tools is untrue and therefore your conclusion that Apple would recommend such tools to Windows users because Apple thinks they are effective does not follow (even if we ignore the fact that troubleshooting advice for one OS wouldn't necessarily carry over to another).

queball · 14 May 2004, 18:09

Dante Hicks · 14 May 2004, 18:09

hahaha, Tact is a Mac user!

skiddy · 14 May 2004, 18:12

Allow me to clear this one up.

OS 9 had Disk First Aid, which fixes file indescrepancies and minor catalogue errors. I'll also repair invalid or missing flags.

OS X has Disk Utility which will allow you to verify and repair the permissions and will also allow you to perform similar actions to those which Disk First Aid does.

They are essentially the Apple versions of chkdisk/scandisk.

Norton have a product for both Mac's and Windows which will scan disks and repair errors better than the basic system tools can on both OS's. The mentioned product is of course Disk Doctor - available in Systemworks. This will also repair / mark bad sectors.

Alsoft have a Mac only product called Diskwarrior. This works differently from Norton and Disk First Aid / Disk Utility as instead of repairing the catalogue and file errors, it simply takes the raw information of the disks data and creates a brand new catalogue - which is actually more efficient than the one the OS creates.

OS X doesn't need disk defragmenting tools as it defragments on the fly when writing data and 'optimises' the system when it's done installing something.

OS 9 you just had to essentially put up with the slowdown

If you need Apple answers, ask me instead of throwing these half truths around.

Ta.

[edit]

Norton on OS 9 would allow you to defragment by the way

Tactitus · 14 May 2004, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

hahaha, Tact is a Mac user!

The funny part is that I'm also a Windows and Unix user. :/

MrL_JaKiri · 14 May 2004, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactitus

Well, I understand that you seem to be confused. :/

Not being a Mac user, I'm only going on what mac users have said to me.

Obviously I should have stuck by my 'anyone who owns a mac as a generic computer knows nothing about computing' line.

SYMM · 14 May 2004, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Not being a Mac user, I'm only going on what mac users have said to me.

Obviously I should have stuck by my 'anyone who owns a mac as a generic computer knows nothing about computing' line.

hmm...working for Cray (that still correct Tactitus?) isn't enough?

MrL_JaKiri · 14 May 2004, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYMM

hmm...working for Cray (that still correct Tactitus?) isn't enough?

What part of that quote was talking about Tact?

SYMM · 14 May 2004, 19:11

the "anyone who owns a mac as a generic computer" bit...

MrL_JaKiri · 14 May 2004, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYMM

the "anyone who owns a mac as a generic computer" bit...

I was going to say 'personal' computer, but that could spark CONFUSION! CONFUSION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER!. It implies in lieu of an IBM Compatable, or whatever you kids call em nowadays.