Planetarion Forums

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 19:12

I'll let the rest of you do the talking about england, because i dont care that much

Is anyone watching the republic of ireland though? Playing pretty well.

The real point here though, is how bad is Steve Claridges commentary and analysis? Pretty funny though.

MrL_JaKiri · 26 Mar 2005, 19:24

Joe Cole. Nobody expected that this time last year.

pig · 26 Mar 2005, 19:30

4-4-2 works, need we say much more?

Well done England, they deserved it first 66 now 06?

pig · 26 Mar 2005, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Joe Cole. Nobody expected that this time last year.

very very true

Rids · 26 Mar 2005, 19:42

The boy has always had talent, much like Frank Lampard, his time at Chelsea may turn him into an england star.

Phalon · 26 Mar 2005, 19:51

Indeed, thoroughly impressed with him, let's hope he can continue making progress and we'll be in a decidedly strong position come next summer.

lokken · 26 Mar 2005, 19:52

Well for the first time England looked like we had a first XI. Pretty satisfied, though we can hardly judge on a team that never threatened us in any way.

noah02 · 26 Mar 2005, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokken

Well for the first time England looked like we had a first XI. Pretty satisfied, though we can hardly judge on a team that never threatened us in any way.

England can be the best team in the world sometimes, but they can just never seem to keep the knack even though there is so much talent.

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 20:22

You've all forgotten the first half of todays game, already?

In one light, england won 4-0, joe cole played brilliantly, paul robinson was never tested.

In another, england didnt score for 45 minutes against a team ranked 118th or something in the world, and didnt look like they would, joe cole's natural talent bruteforced a game in which even northern ireland showed that hes not a left winger, and it took 45 minutes before you stopped beckham, lampard, gerrard, and rooney all fighting over who should be sweeper and take the ball forward.

lokken · 26 Mar 2005, 20:24

To be fair on Northern Ireland they did a job on us first half, similar to what Everton do to teams in the prem.

Vaio · 26 Mar 2005, 20:27

I thought Northern Ireland did well to score twice (giggle)

~Vaio~

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 20:34

True, but everton have a degree of talent. You didnt have enough wide. The problem in the first half was like i said, you always had 3 players over the ball in center midfield - beckham lampard and gerrard were all trying to be "the big man", the one to survey the scene and play the ball that would get the pundits talking about them. Subsequently in beckhams case, you had no right wing - the customary gary neville david beckham overlapping didnt happen - at all - the first half in particular i remember one moment where gary neville had the ball for about 10 seconds and nothing was happening, he had nowhere to go because beckham was just standing in the box. Sure, n. ire played the 4-5-1 quite well, sure, maik taylor played well, but you didnt get enough crosses in - joe cole kept leaving his left wing (hes not a left winger, i know) because thats all hes used to being able to do - there wasnt really any interaction between him and ashley cole. I remember once ashley cole was caught offside, and joe cole wasnt even in the picture. whats the deal with that? lack of discipline and communication for me.

England did play well second half but only because n. ire let them - they lost all shape and discipline - and when you have the most undisciplined but exciting attacker in the uk in joe cole on your team - that just falls into Englands hands.

Remember, 4-0 was a good result, and an accurate result - but the goals were a defensive mistake to give it to cole, an own goal, a ridiculous deflection - and ok, michael owens goal was the result of good work by rooney (albeit shite defending). But you arent going to face many worse teams than them.

Cannon_Fodder · 26 Mar 2005, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

But you arent going to face many worse teams than them.

Azerbijian?

Lupin · 26 Mar 2005, 20:53

or in other words you are always as good as the opponent is and n irl did well the first and sucked the last half.

KoeN · 26 Mar 2005, 21:09

we beat Romania 0-2. first goal after 25 seconds. second goal made by Ryan Babel, in his first match for the national team (he now played 4 matches in the Dutch league in total btw).

MrL_JaKiri · 26 Mar 2005, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

In another, england didnt score for 45 minutes against a team ranked 118th or something in the world, and didnt look like they would

Except when Owen was through on goal and when Rooney hit the post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

hes not a left winger

He doesn't have to be. If he's disciplined, stays to his side, helps Colea in defense and gives us something different going forward, I don't care if he's not a nippy midget who puts balls in from the byline.

Who would you play on the left side of the midfield? Downing?

Quote:

Remember, 4-0 was a good result, and an accurate result - but the goals were a defensive mistake to give it to cole, an own goal, a ridiculous deflection - and ok, michael owens goal was the result of good work by rooney (albeit shite defending). But you arent going to face many worse teams than them.

You're getting confused. The own goal was the good work from Rooney, the Owen goal was Lampard's surge into the area.

LHC · 26 Mar 2005, 21:27

Heskey!

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Except when Owen was through on goal and when Rooney hit the post?

He doesn't have to be. If he's disciplined, stays to his side, helps Colea in defense and gives us something different going forward, I don't care if he's not a nippy midget who puts balls in from the byline.

Who would you play on the left side of the midfield? Downing?

You're getting confused. The own goal was the good work from Rooney, the Owen goal was Lampard's surge into the area.

Rooneys header was good, but if it had bounced into the net it would have been out of the blue. I didnt forget about owen being through on goal. I just dont think thats a scoring chance because it was more than 2 yards out and michael owen had the ball. Zing.

What im saying is that he isnt that though - hes not disciplined enough - he cant tackle to save his life - defensively, hes a liability - and he doesnt stick to his side. I think hes an immensly talented player, who you dont have room for in the side, perhaps - not sticking to a 4-4-2 and playing lampard and gerrard in the middle at any rate. I think hes an attacking prospect for any defence to face, but for me, the nature of his game is such that hes a better subsitute than he is a starter - especially considering the talent already at englands disposal.

The cop out here is to say "oh i wouldnt play 4-4-2 so i wouldnt have a left sided mid" - because with Joe Cole on the field the 4-4-2 automatically becomes a 4-3-1-2 anyway. But considering Sven will never change the 4-4-2, i'd be more tempted to play Ashley Cole left mid and Wayne Bridge left back. Ideally though, 3-5-2, Ferdinand-Terry-Cambell, A.Cole-Gerrard-Lampard-Beckham-WrightPhillips, Rooney-Defoe

JC · 26 Mar 2005, 23:13

If Beckham stuck to the wing and stopped coming inside and congesting things, Cole floating around wherever he wanted wouldnt be a problem as Beckham would provide the width. Unfortunately that doesnt seem to happen which is why i'ld drop Beckham and have Wright-Phillips there until Beckham realises he isnt untouchable.

Oh and that was a great chance for Owen. You seem to be forgetting all the goals he has scored in his career from more than 2 yards out.

furball · 26 Mar 2005, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

The cop out here is to say "oh i wouldnt play 4-4-2 so i wouldnt have a left sided mid" - because with Joe Cole on the field the 4-4-2 automatically becomes a 4-3-1-2 anyway. But considering Sven will never change the 4-4-2, i'd be more tempted to play Ashley Cole left mid and Wayne Bridge left back. Ideally though, 3-5-2, Ferdinand-Terry-Cambell, A.Cole-Gerrard-Lampard-Beckham-WrightPhillips, Rooney-Defoe

3-5-2? Interesting idea, and it creates room for Beckham in the team. But I wouldn't have Campbell in there (and this is coming from a Gooner), he's getting old and slower. King is more mobile, as he'd need to be for a back 3 (whereas in a back 4, Campbell doesn't have to move as much).

Actually, I might take Beckham out of there altogether and play a midfield of A.Cole-J.Cole-Lampard-Gerrard-Wright-Phillips, with the same defence/attack.

KoeN · 26 Mar 2005, 23:17

come on guys, this is the english national team you're talking about. it's not like they will ever achieve anything worth mentioning, remember?

All Systems Go · 26 Mar 2005, 23:27

I think this thread needs some Welsh representation. Wales did not deserve to lose 2-0. toshack did not deserve the criticism some of the fans were giving him. We had two defensive disasters which gifted them the goals but unti then we seems to be the better team. the ref was awful though, he missed two clear handballs and when Page kicked a player in retaliation and probably some other things. I was watching Sky Sports News and a number of fans they interviewed were criticising the team terriby and one even suggested toshack should quit. Now, I did not want him appoited but I think he should be given a chance. We played quite well, not as solidly as under Hughes but we did play more entertaining football than in a while.

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Oh and that was a great chance for Owen. You seem to be forgetting all the goals he has scored in his career from more than 2 yards out.

I know it was a chance, i was being "comically harsh". But can you honestly tell me, that after his form, performances over the last 2 years or so, when you saw Michael Owen one-on-one you thought "goal"? Rooney, Lampard, Cole, Gerrard, you wouldnt have had a doubt. Owen? Not as sure.

Btw

Scotland didnt play too badly tonight. We lost 2-0 to two excellent free kicks - one of which came from a dive, the other came from a Kenny Miller foul. Why do i point that out? Because i've disowned Kenny Miller. He missed a 1 on 1 with Buffon in the most pathetic of fashions, his shot was beyond abysmal - that and giving away the free kick rounded off a lazy, shit evening from him. Also, Buffon made a "great save" from Quashie, though i dont think he knew anything about it. Considering the amount of passengers we had on the field (sup Barry Ferguson) and the fact we had to switch keepers after 40 minutes and the fact that The italian fans decided to throw flares about the stadium and fight amonst themselves, scaring our idiots to death, we actually, actually did quite well tonight.

JC · 26 Mar 2005, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

(sup Barry Ferguson)

What do you expect from a guy that cant hack it in the Premiership with a lower quality side? He'll never amount to anything now even though he had all the potential.

MrL_JaKiri · 26 Mar 2005, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

What im saying is that he isnt that though - hes not disciplined enough - he cant tackle to save his life - defensively, hes a liability

He is improving dramatically. If you were saying this about the Joe Cole of a year, six months, hell, even 4 weeks ago, I'd have agreed with you. I don't think we've got the finished article yet, but then again I don't think Colej has finished developing yet either. Don't forget two or three years ago when Lampard wasn't even a shoo-in for the squad, let alone the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

i'd be more tempted to play Ashley Cole left mid and Wayne Bridge left back.

That's one thing that really confuses me. Why does Sven put Bridge in LM when he plays this pairing. Maybe he likes his overlapping fullbacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Ideally though, 3-5-2, Ferdinand-Terry-Cambell, A.Cole-Gerrard-Lampard-Beckham-WrightPhillips, Rooney-Defoe

I agree that 3-5-2 would be our theoretical best formation, but nobody plays it at a club level so it might not be that great, especially when you factor in that you may be switching players around due to injury, or withdrawl from friendlies (which is where you'd try this kind of thing out, ideally. Or in a qualifier if we're through already, which is, knowing england, unlikely).

Having said that, one problem with the 3-5-2 is that it would leave the flanks hideously exposed, and with our seemingly terminal inability to defend set pieces I would worry about inviting more crosses.

Possibly that's just a "missing Ferdinand" thing though, that bastard does a hell of a lot to make the defense better as a unit, despite his off-field persona.

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 23:37

Hes rubbish, seriously. An entire career based on reputation alone - obviously i dont need to tell you that, youve seen the under performing scally in question on a weekly basis. He gave the ball away like 5 times, walked about like he owned the place, tried to turn in circles on the edge of our box and lost it.. hes useless, a complete waste of space. We need Fletcher to get fit, and then have a captains armband tattooed on him - maybe that way Ferguson will get out the ****ing team.

MrL_JaKiri · 26 Mar 2005, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

What do you expect from a guy that cant hack it in the Premiership with a lower quality side? He'll never amount to anything now even though he had all the potential.

To be fair, he was playing pretty well (at least what I saw of him, although the last thing was that 2 yellows = 0 reds thing back at the start of the season, **** not having a proper aerial). Maybe he just didn't like Sparky, although given he joined under Souness that's not really an option.

If you get Bellamy in the summer, you'll be well on the way to building a team o'bastards though.

JC · 26 Mar 2005, 23:43

I wouldnt say he was rubbish, he started to settle in quite well to out team and put in some decent performances. From what i saw of him he had the talent to make it in the Premiership, not with a top 3 side but probably with a team aiming for Europe most seasons, but in the end he didnt have the right mental attitude. This pretty much sums my thoughts up on him.

MrL_JaKiri · 26 Mar 2005, 23:50

Yeah, I don't think anyone (other than rose-tinted Rangers supporters) has any respect for him any more.

Deffeh · 26 Mar 2005, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

He is improving dramatically. If you were saying this about the Joe Cole of a year, six months, hell, even 4 weeks ago, I'd have agreed with you. I don't think we've got the finished article yet, but then again I don't think Colej has finished developing yet either. Don't forget two or three years ago when Lampard wasn't even a shoo-in for the squad, let alone the team.

That's one thing that really confuses me. Why does Sven put Bridge in LM when he plays this pairing. Maybe he likes his overlapping fullbacks.

I agree that 3-5-2 would be our theoretical best formation, but nobody plays it at a club level so it might not be that great, especially when you factor in that you may be switching players around due to injury, or withdrawl from friendlies (which is where you'd try this kind of thing out, ideally. Or in a qualifier if we're through already, which is, knowing england, unlikely).

Having said that, one problem with the 3-5-2 is that it would leave the flanks hideously exposed, and with our seemingly terminal inability to defend set pieces I would worry about inviting more crosses.

Possibly that's just a "missing Ferdinand" thing though, that bastard does a hell of a lot to make the defense better as a unit, despite his off-field persona.

I fully agree with you when you say hes improving dramatically - but i dont think that hes improving in a defensive sense at all; i'd cite the Barcelona game as a perfect example. He was a threat going forward, but anonymous in defence. He gave away 3 or 4 fouls today due to bad tackling, a skill he hasnt mastered even to a competent level in his entire career. The area i think hes improved in is End product, just not in an all round capacity. Thats why i think hes an expensive player. If you managed to give him a free role, fantastic, because he neglects his defensive duties anyway. Lampard is a good marker, i suppose, but the questions about Lampard were never about his defensive frailties. (Actually, to a side point, i have no idea what lampards defensive qualities are, because ive never seen him in a situation where hes had to defend). Bridge has played more at left mid than A. cole has, but it is indeed obvious to anyone, that Bridge is a better defender and cole is a better attacker. (The little diving ****er that he is).

Even with 3-5-2, if you consider (imo) first choice
Ferdinand-Terry-Cambell, A.Cole-Gerrard-Lampard-Beckham-WrightPhillips, Rooney-Defoe
Heres a second choice 3-5-2, "backup lineup"
King-Carragher-Woodgate, Bridge-Butt-Dyer-J.Cole-G.Neville, Owen-Johnson
More of a 5-3-2, but still, theres some depth there.

I do understand your problem about the wings, but as it stands, Joe Cole drifting everywhere, Beckham moving inside, you practically only have one line of defence anyway, so you may as well utilise these positions to your advantage

Reidy · 27 Mar 2005, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoeN

we beat Romania 0-2. first goal after 25 seconds. second goal made by Ryan Babel, in his first match for the national team (he now played 4 matches in the Dutch league in total btw).

i think i watched him play for ajax against psv, if its the same guy he looked pretty turd too me!

btw, to the dutch guys, why hasnt anyone bought trabelsi??? he always looks great when i watch him

Joe Cole isnt a left winger, never will be and shouldnt play there

Blastoderm · 27 Mar 2005, 00:07

I believe England can be World Cup winners if Joe Cole is a starting regular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

Well done England, they deserved it first 66 now 06?

England beat West Germany at home in 66, would be nice if they lift the cup in Germany.

Peace · 27 Mar 2005, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

I'll let the rest of you do the talking about england, because i dont care that much

oh really? :)

Deffeh · 27 Mar 2005, 02:19

blatant lie really, i just couldnt be bothered starting up the debate.

lokken · 27 Mar 2005, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Also, Buffon made a "great save" from Quashie, though i dont think he knew anything about it.

Nigel has a knack of either doing 'great shots' that nearly always get saved or (and this is most of the time) add to the amount of objects currently orbiting planet earth. If he stopped fancying himself and knew his limits, he'd be twice the player.

Deffeh · 27 Mar 2005, 02:38

I hate him. You need to understand i dont have anything against the english, until they are
a/ Beating us at Sports
or
b/ Playing in our sports teams

I mean, really. Hes about as Scottish as i am Norwegian because my name is Fergusson.

Actually you need to see the move though. Scotland, as shite as they were, put together 4 passes - like, 2 headers, a chest, and a volley, took apart italy, and then quashie unleashed a shot. It was going past Buffon, who got his hands up, but it hit him on like, the wrist or something. Total flukey save, which is especially annoying as hes too good to need luck