The Dole

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Travler

Oh well. Nice to meet you. God Loves you. If you really want to get to know Jesus instead of scorn him I would be glad to converse with you.

No thank you. Been there done that. You see when I was a young, lonely, and needy teenager in foster homes, people like you came around and filled my head with your bullshit. I was a 'born again' Christian, a die hard one, for quite a few years. I read a chapter of the bible everyday (so I kinda know what I'm talking about when it comes to that subject), prayed, talked to others about salvation, etc etc. I was a walking talking clone of you.

But then something amazing happened, I realized what a bunch of nonesene it was. I was inevitably a lost cause you see, because I am not dumb enough to be caged by the ridiculous fantasy that enevlopes people like you. Unfortunately, having gotten to me early enough, I am forever imprinted with the effects of the brainwashing bestowed on me and an doomed to be for the rest of my life in conflict with myself over spiritual issues. At least I am comforted by looking at the people who took advatage of me in my time of need for their own purposes, and watch them flounder in their own ignorance, stumble around in their own minds as they try to reconcile their fantasy with reality. Reading your posts is like watching a fish swim around in a glass bowl.

[acropolis]

logically, because god appointed kings (note the papal annointments) to rule/own everything, "your property" is the set of those affects which were obtained by a series of mutually accepted exchanges and/or gifts which can be traced all the way back to a papally annointed king.

anyway, i think rousseau suffers from the "i have nothing interesting to say, therefore i will make a career out of nit-picking against the arguments of people who did have something interesting to say" problem that forms the basis of the modern philosophical community.

[dda]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

PS s|k is quite right about some cultures having ALMOST no conception of property.

[Travler]

Originally Posted by s|k

I was a walking talking clone of you..

Wrong, I am not a clone of anyone. The hairs on my head are numbered. If you were a clone of someone else then that was of your choosing. I certainly don't want you to be a clone of me.

Originally Posted by s|k

But then something amazing happened, I realized what a bunch of nonesene it was. I was inevitably a lost cause you see, because I am not dumb enough to be caged by the ridiculous fantasy that enevlopes people like you. Unfortunately, having gotten to me early enough, I am forever imprinted with the effects of the brainwashing bestowed on me and an doomed to be for the rest of my life in conflict with myself over spiritual issues. At least I am comforted by looking at the people who took advatage of me in my time of need for their own purposes, and watch them flounder in their own ignorance, stumble around in their own minds as they try to reconcile their fantasy with reality. Reading your posts is like watching a fish swim around in a glass bowl.

Again your assumptions are wrong. I came to belive quite late in life. In fact I was 33 at the time. Not a kid and not easily brainwashed. And if you think you are so much smarter than me or anyone else for that matter start using your grey matter for something other than a hat rest.

Reading your posts is like watching a fish outside a fishbowl flapping to try and get back in the water.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Travler

Not a kid and not easily brainwashed.

so you obviously weren't

[s|k]

Originally Posted by Travler

Reading your posts is like watching a fish outside a fishbowl flapping to try and get back in the water.

Sometimes I feel that way too.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by pig

My question to you GD, do you regard signing on as a Shameful act? Would you Sign on? Do you share the same feelings as my friends or do you see it from my perspective?

Well when I was on the dole for 3 months, it didn't exactly make me feel warm inside My mum made me go to the job centre as she refused to give me cash. Hating being on the dole, I went and got a job as a bag carrier at a hotel, which I hated, but was better than being unemployed.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

This is the correct analogy, and I agree with your point but I think you mean it is still privately owned. The point is that ownership and exclusive use aren't the same things. My landlord owns my house but I (and my co-tenants) have exclusive use (unless a court rules otherwise).

sorry, the "not any more" part was supposed to be "after the revolution" although that was never expressed clearly. I did say you'd be more coherent.

[dda]

Revolution Opt Out Form

When the revolution comes the current law says that you must be given the option to have your name removed from the list of revolutionaries.

If you do not want to be sent notices of revolutions or included on the mailing list for even minor insurrections please click the link below.

www.nothanksimkeepingmyshit.com

[Furyous]

Originally Posted by dda

Revolution Opt Out Form

When the revolution comes the current law says that you must be given the option to have your name removed from the list of revolutionaries.

If you do not want to be sent notices of revolutions or included on the mailing list for even minor insurrections please click the link below.

www.nothanksimkeepingmyshit.com

I'm keeping my shit for sure! And I'm buying a few dozen kegs of beer before the revolution comes just in case that gets rationed out, or i have to somehow share every swig.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Sorry Johnny for posting a readable and succint article available online which kicks off the debate on property from some sort of philosophical grounding.

By all means suggest something else.

I'm sure you have something better to recommend. Personally I'm surprised Proudhon didn't pop up. To be honest I find recommending the Origins of Inequality on property analogous to recommending the book of genesis on the origins of man. It's readable and succint but christ man don't you think we can do somewhat better?

In response to dda's quote of me above somewhere concerning s|k of course everyone has some idea of property in an absolute sense. If nothing else all individuals understand that the foot attached to their right leg is uniquely theirs. However the concept that they have rightful claims to anything that is not them is foreign to some cultures.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

To be honest I find recommending the Origins of Inequality on property analogous to recommending the book of genesis on the origins of man. It's readable and succint but christ man don't you think we can do somewhat better?

I realise you weren't being 100% serious but I don't think that's a particularly fair comparison. Despite what some over excited Marxists might claim political philosophy isn't a science in the same sense as biology or geology or whatever. No-one really believes that what Rousseau writes in Origin is an actual history of the world or that we all started society behind a Rawlsian veil of ignorance or that Robinson Crusoe adequately describes the economic development of capitalism. But that doesn't mean these things aren't interesting, or contain valuable insights. In terms of anything better I'm not sure of anything that's short and popular. Except my posts because I'm obviously fantastic.

Obviously these ideas have been refined by others, but the same could be said of the philosophy of Aristotle and Plato and we still bother with them.

In response to dda's quote of me above somewhere concerning s|k of course everyone has some idea of property in an absolute sense.

Yeah, he's talking about property in a different sense. It's the usual GD word game. I'm going to define property as the act of hating black people and therefore all you private property types are disgusting racists.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Obviously these ideas have been refined by others, but the same could be said of the philosophy of Aristotle and Plato and we still bother with them.

If someone asked me for a recommendation on a start in philosophy I wouldn't recommend aristotle or plato. I'd recommend Roger Scruton's modern philosophy: an introduction and survey or something similar.

Yeah, he's talking about property in a different sense. It's the usual GD word game. I'm going to define property as the act of hating black people and therefore all you private property types are disgusting racists.

Wait, do you mean s|k, me or dda here? Anyways if we can at least agree where our definitions differ that's a start.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

If someone asked me for a recommendation on a start in philosophy I wouldn't recommend aristotle or plato. I'd recommend Roger Scruton's modern philosophy: an introduction and survey or something similar.

Oh. I wouldn't.

Maybe if someone wanted to read one book and that was it, but I find most modern summaries horrifically dull. Except Russell's (and that was 50 years ago and is only good because it makes no attempt at non-bias)

Wait, do you mean s|k, me or dda here?

dda.

Although you're a filthy racist too.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Oh. I wouldn't.

Maybe if someone wanted to read one book and that was it, but I find most modern summaries horrifically dull. Except Russell's (and that was 50 years ago and is only good because it makes no attempt at non-bias)

You communists are so caught up in the past and being excitingly wrong. It's not like it attempts to cover everything ever and that's final, there are still many areas open for debate and discussion. However it'd be of little use to anyone reading an entire book based on a gigantic fallacy (not saying that's the origins of inequality, just making a point).

dda.

Although you're a filthy racist too.

And you and T&F are just self-hating jews

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

However it'd be of little use to anyone reading an entire book based on a gigantic fallacy

I disagree, unless it's the only book they ever plan on reading. Reading The Bible or Mein Kampf could be fairly interesting from a number of perspectives (even ignoring their historical value).

Obviously nothing is ever final, and that's why things are interesting. No-one is saying that these discussions haven't moved on, but for a reasonable introduction it's perfectly acceptable to read something like Origin.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I disagree, unless it's the only book they ever plan on reading. Reading The Bible or Mein Kampf could be fairly interesting from a number of perspectives (even ignoring their historical value).

Indeed, but as an introduction to the question of "what to do with the jews?" or "do you deserve death for fantasising about a celebrity" I'd say no. There'll be plenty of time for silliness after we've got a good idea where we stand.

Obviously nothing is ever final, and that's why things are interesting. No-one is saying that these discussions haven't moved on, but for a reasonable introduction it's perfectly acceptable to read something like Origin.

Never forget the Jewish Question!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

In terms of opening a discussion about natural property rights Origin is bang on, it asks all the relevant questions. If you want an economics lesson that's a different question and perhaps Adam Smith might be amusing (albeit much longer) as I said please recommend something else. It seems easy to say "pah that's not very good" if you already read a bunch of more complicated books or if you disagree with it. If you recall I also said John Locke.

Readable and succint with some philosophical grounding!

[JonnyBGood]

Posting to claim the 300th post in this thread for private property. Hah **** you hippies!

[furball]

Calling JJ to thread 191334 to enforce laws on eminent domain!

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Readable and succint with some philosophical grounding!

I hope this gets better after the first two parts because if not then I'm going to come and stab you in the face.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I hope this gets better after the first two parts because if not then I'm going to come and stab you in the face.

I'm off to purchase an iron mask.

[JonnyBGood]

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4620

The above article analyses the issue of immigration from what I'd call a capitalist perspective. I wouldn't agree with all of it but I think it's one of the best things I've ever seen on capmag, which may not be the highest of praise but read it nonetheless.

[dda]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Oh. I wouldn't.

Maybe if someone wanted to read one book and that was it, but I find most modern summaries horrifically dull. Except Russell's (and that was 50 years ago and is only good because it makes no attempt at non-bias)
dda.

Although you're a filthy racist too.

We gave up on property rights to black people some time ago and look where it has led!

Hip Hop and Rap.

Need I say more.