I fought the law...

[Dante Hicks]

and the law won.

Sort of.

Our internet wasn't working this morning. Phoned up Clara.Net only to be told that our account had been suspended because of copyright infringement. They had a complaint from someone. (

Got them to e-mail my hotmail account with details. This is all T&Fs fault.

copyright infringement complaint [Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban].
see rt 160863
------------------------------------------------------
Infringement Detail:
Infringing Work: Harry Potter audio book
Filename: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - complete.MP3.mp3
First Found: 22 May 2004 06:05:46 EDT (GMT -0400)
Last Found: 22 May 2004 06:05:46 EDT (GMT -0400)
Filesize: 165,976k
IP Address  <deleted>
IP Port: 3813
Network: KaZaA
Protocol: FastTrack
Username: KazaaLiteK++@KaZaA

cue : hahahaha, I realise.

[Ragnarak]

Lol.

Not only were you (him) stupid enough to download a popular movie that's only just come out you used kazaa to do it

Is it too much to hope you at least had PeerGuardian installed?

[Evergreen]

It's the audio book.

[Ragnarak]

Originally Posted by Evergreen

It's the audio book.

I assumed he was after the film and got the book by mistake. If he was actually after the book i dunno if that's even worse or not.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

cue : hahahaha, I realise.

So it was a joke then?


Edit: PeerGuardian!?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Ragnarak

I assumed he was after the film and got the book by mistake. If he was actually after the book i dunno if that's even worse or not.

He was after the sound track.

[JonnyBGood]

Irony lol!

[Ragnarak]

Originally Posted by Stew

Edit: PeerGuardian!?

Basically a list of nasty IPs who you don't want to share with cos it's really teh FBI, etc

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Ragnarak

Basically a list of nasty IPs who you don't want to share with cos it's really teh FBI, etc

Thats built into KazaaLite++ though isnt it?

[Baron Morte]

Thats some ****ed up shit.
So far every battle against the hackers crackers and general thiefs of the net have been lost by the companies. Although perhaps us, the thiefs, will have to go underground again, like in the pre-2000 years, when there was no file sharing services and we had to cralw in the filthiests places on the internet to get whatever crap which we were looking for.
Oh i remember those days, when warez was still a http based transaction....
it was neat!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Baron Morte

Thats some ****ed up shit.
So far every battle against the hackers crackers and general thiefs of the net have been lost by the companies. Although perhaps us, the thiefs, will have to go underground again, like in the pre-2000 years, when there was no file sharing services and we had to cralw in the filthiests places on the internet to get whatever crap which we were looking for.
Oh i remember those days, when warez was still a http based transaction....
it was neat!

<3

[Perfection]

Well, you could sue them for infringement of privacy. In theory all you should have to pay is the license fee for the book (its like £10 isnt it?).

Of course, no tort of privacy exists in english law - but its thought there should be one.

[Baron Morte]

Originally Posted by Perfection

Well, you could sue them for infringement of privacy. In theory all you should have to pay is the license fee for the book (its like £10 isnt it?).

Of course, no tort of privacy exists in english law - but its thought there should be one.

actually a legal issue would be that they cant actually prove that it was you who downloaded that. Penally you will probably be absolved. I dont know how is the legal system over there, but im glad to live in a 3rd world country right now because i am ABSOLUTELY sure that this kind of shite will never happen to me...
anyways, you could say a friend of yours did that, or even better a friend of a friend, you were sleeping and the fooker downloaded some shite....
well, its silly and you will never get caught

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Baron Morte

actually a legal issue would be that they cant actually prove that it was you who downloaded that. Penally you will probably be absolved. I dont know how is the legal system over there, but im glad to live in a 3rd world country right now because i am ABSOLUTELY sure that this kind of shite will never happen to me...
anyways, you could say a friend of yours did that, or even better a friend of a friend, you were sleeping and the fooker downloaded some shite....
well, its silly and you will never get caught

I don't think you 'get' it. It's not that he'll get criminal charges, or similar, it's just that his internet's been cut off.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Perfection

Of course, no tort of privacy exists in english law - but its thought there should be one.

Oh the joys of the human rights act and art.8 ECHR

[Perfection]

Originally Posted by Baron Morte

actually a legal issue would be that they cant actually prove that it was you who downloaded that. Penally you will probably be absolved. I dont know how is the legal system over there, but im glad to live in a 3rd world country right now because i am ABSOLUTELY sure that this kind of shite will never happen to me...
anyways, you could say a friend of yours did that, or even better a friend of a friend, you were sleeping and the fooker downloaded some shite....
well, its silly and you will never get caught

Infringement of copyright is judged on the balance of probabilities because its a civil wrong (an act against another individual, albeit in this case a company) as opposed to an act against society generally which is a crime and must be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. Hence, you would be fooked. Though, tbh, if i was in a jury and it was a criminal trial - id still convict you unless you could introduce some evidence to make me think it wasnt you.

[Perfection]

Originally Posted by lokken

Oh the joys of the human rights act and art.8 ECHR

Indeed. In theory it exists because of the ECHR. But our judges have refused to allow it - yet.

[JonnyBGood]

Don't worry dudes, dante will just get them to read the link in his signature and then everything will turn out alright :)))))

[Marilyn Manson]

I will be your advocate in court, providing you let me shag you swiftly against the side of the cooker.

[pyirt]

Silly question: Is this to do with downloading something from Kazaa?

[at0mic.c0w]

how can they prove that this is actually copyright infringing material. surely the filename isn't enough ?

[Madina]

Why not write an email back claiming you have no knowledge of the file and that your pc must have a virus/trojan, which performed these actions. Then say you have deleted the file and updated ur virus scanner and deleted all naughty files.

Then get Protowall or Peerguardian and keep it updated - doesnt make you 100% safe but gets you on your way.

Then use bittorrent instead of kazaa

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Madina

Then use bittorrent instead of kazaa

I thought this was even more traceable?

[Madina]

Originally Posted by Stew

I thought this was even more traceable?

yeh it is cos ALL trackers log your ip and you can view other peoples ip's through certain clients. but its just quicker than kazaa and you can get files from many different locations (e.g. not just nova, which im sure is heavily monitored, same with the kazaa network (heavily monitored))

[Stew]

So am I going to get my internet connection cut off soon?
Am I going to jail?!

[Madina]

Well the only research i have done is on the forums of a torrent site. It depends on your ISP - mine (pipex) has not sent me any letters and i have downloaded many a movie/album/prog/game the list goes on. And i doubt you would goto jail, unless your downloading them to sell off on the black market.

so what ISP do you use?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Stew

I thought this was even more traceable?

'Don't use public torrents'.

Anyway, if memory serves, downloading things isn't illegal in the UK per se, it'll be something in the T&C of the connection

[Madina]

what torrent sites do you use?

[Stew]

Suprnova and BT Broadband.

Not looking good for me is it!?

[Frisky]

Something that I've always wondered about...

Can they nab you for downloading, or only for sharing? My understanding was those taken to court have been charged with things more along the lines of sharing and distributing copyrighted materials than just possessing them.

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Frisky

Something that I've always wondered about...

Can they nab you for downloading, or only for sharing? My understanding was those taken to court have been charged with things more along the lines of sharing and distributing copyrighted materials than just possessing them.

I checked the relevant Act of Parliament a while ago, and it seems that (in the UK at least) only sharing is a criminal offence. They can sue you if you download stuff illegally, but if they won you'd only have to pay the damages you'd caused, i.e. the cost of the thing you downloaded.

[Radical Edward]

I didn'T know there were any other (decent) torrent sites apart from suprnova

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

I didn'T know there were any other (decent) torrent sites apart from suprnova

Public vs nonpublic, see.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Don't worry dudes, dante will just get them to read the link in his signature and then everything will turn out alright ))))

Here's hoping.

Still don't have internet access at home (am at Uni now). We're sending a fax to their "abuse" team saying we'll try not to do it again. But they think we're a company (we have a business ADSL line) so we have to do some made-up letter headed paper and blame it on our retarded employees (lo T&F) who have now moved out.

Oh, and this is Clara.Net for info. Though to be fair we've probably downloaded about 300-400GB of "pirated" material without any bother. But you mess with Harry Potter just once, and they'll kill your family.

[Weeks]

lol.

[Tactitus]

As your dispute appears to be with Clara.net, why don't you just get another ISP?

The market can work for you too!

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

As your dispute appears to be with Clara.net, why don't you just get another ISP?

Was considering it, but we may have a twelve month contract with them (I can't remember, I'm not the account holder).

We're moving soon. But yes, suffice to say in our new property (if we get one) we will not be going back to Clara.Net.

[MrL_JaKiri]

This is why you get something like Nildram, which has a monthly account.

[Dante Hicks]

As I say, I didn't sign up for it (last year I had about a thousand direct debits from my account and every month out internet connection would get cut off). We would have stayed with Pipex (our previous providers) but they only provided 8 IP's and we needed more. Clara.Net provided 20 or something for no additional charge.

[Tomkat]

I didn't even know KaZaa was monitored... how did someone report you?

I'm so naive

[Androme]

Roffle.

If you're on dial-up modem it's unlikely you'll be tracked - until they get suspecious as to why you're using programs to keep your connection on literally 24/7 (I have this dial-up thingy to do that). Still, I've downloaded approx. 20GB on my modem and I'm happy

[Baron Morte]

Originally Posted by Perfection

Infringement of copyright is judged on the balance of probabilities because its a civil wrong (an act against another individual, albeit in this case a company) as opposed to an act against society generally which is a crime and must be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. Hence, you would be fooked. Though, tbh, if i was in a jury and it was a criminal trial - id still convict you unless you could introduce some evidence to make me think it wasnt you.

well you judicial system is clearly crazy then.
let me tell you about what i know our law.
If you are absolved in a penal court, then you are a free man, because, as you said, the penal courts are a lot more scrutinous than the civil one. So an absolving sentence with merit examination on a penal juri will mean that no civil action may take place against you.
If there is no decision of merit, then it is possible to exist a civil action.
One of the four requirements to convict someone is to have the nexus of causality, which will be of the essence in this case. And i doubt that they can come up with any sort of evidence that it was actually him that made that.
Basically what the companies have is "this computer at this time, located at this place did something wrong" which is essentially nothing.
You can argue that it is his responsability, because its his computer, but it is as silly as if a murder took place inside dantes house, to blame him for not locking his door and preventing people from going into his house and killing people there.
If judges convict dante in my country, even with these evidences, it would be posposterous, becouse it would go against many constitutional prerrogatives.
Even in the case of the evidence, clearly generated by a certain invasion of privacy, would be argued and possibly taken out of the records.
You dont have a "constitution" per se, so i dont know how things works there.


And mark dude, i presume that his net acess has been shut down so further investigations might occur, or something. This is a general toss and a presumption, but it is what i thought was happening when dante said he had his net shutdown.

[Dante Hicks]

As quick update, they've agreed to unsuspend the account.

Apparently we've used up one of our chances. If it happens again, it could be more serious or somesuch. I personally think it's a stupid scare tactic so I intend to redouble my downloading efforts.

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As quick update, they've agreed to unsuspend the account.

Apparently we've used up one of our chances. If it happens again, it could be more serious or somesuch. I personally think it's a stupid scare tactic so I intend to redouble my downloading efforts.

But stay away from Harry Potter--it's just jail bait.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As quick update, they've agreed to unsuspend the account.

Well they wernt going to lose £25(ish) a month were they and a reputation that they're hard on downloaders.

I know (well kinda) a director of clara.net and he used to host all kind of stuff on his website - like whole albums and shit!

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

But stay away from Harry Potter--it's just jail bait.

I thought that was just Emma Watson?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Stew

Well they wernt going to lose £25(ish) a month were they and a reputation that they're hard on downloaders.

Actually, because it's a business 2mbit line, it's considerably more than £25 a month. Closer to £75 I think.

[Intrepid00]

Originally Posted by Ragnarak

Basically a list of nasty IPs who you don't want to share with cos it's really teh FBI, etc

Yeah, because the FBI can't sign up for a dialup AOL account.

Peer Guardian is a ****ing joke.

Peer Guardian == Security Blanket

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Yeah, because the FBI can't sign up for a dialup AOL account.

Peer Guardian is a ****ing joke.

Peer Guardian == Security Blanket

It's better than nothing.

[Intrepid00]

I bet its pointless because the IPs are no longer used for that purpose.