r30 ship stats

[Zaejii]

there are already a lot of crash through and equal init combat combinations already. the calcs will almost always favour the attacker imo, unless you're attacking some retard that doesn't know how to run his fleet - even so the defense probably wouldn't make even with salvage.

[Nestorn]

looks interresting with 3 pod types

[Wishmaster]

xan looks too good to me.
the fi is pretty imba this round

[HeimdallR]

i will just have to steal some xan fi then

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

xan looks too good to me.
the fi is pretty imba this round

What do you feel is the best tactic and how would it best be brought more into line with the rest of the stats?

[Rio]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

What do you feel is the best tactic and how would it best be brought more into line with the rest of the stats?

Looking at it the only reason i think that fi looks like the best fleet is as 4 out of 5 races has a good anti fr/de ship at fi/co class, making it very difficult for someone to play this pod class without getting mass deffed everytime.

Im not sure what you can do about this now, but to me as i hate playing cr/bs for the two ticks of def, it makes fi/co the only option or playing a very hard round as fr/de.

[[B5]Londo]

Originally Posted by Rio

i hate playing cr/bs for the two ticks of def, it makes fi/co the only option or playing a very hard round as fr/de.

fr/de also has 2 ticks of def... but generally i agree that the fr/de is the weakest of the 3 meta-classes under these stats, their attack fleets are always slightly weaker because unlike the other 2 they can be hit by all 3 so their attack fleet has to protect itself in all zones (admittedly Cr/Bs can only be ingal) this is increased by on average poor init vs the cr/bs that shoot at fr/de, and not great init vs the fi/co shooting up either.
Conversely they sometimes concentrate all their ships in 1 meta class and thus gain a sort of bonus in defence.

[isildurx]

I agree on fr\de being the weakest class and i guess there will mainly be fi\co and cr\bs roidingfleets(aswell as deffleets?) this round

[HellKicker]

Patrick says (00:37):
how about a Co which targets Fi (either as t1 or t2) with init 4/5? maybe the harpy? (or switching the Harpy to init 4 right away, but i don't think JBG would approve of that )

[isildurx]

Xan FI really arent THAT great to be honest, you have to build three types of fi\co and theyre really quite shit versus DE it would seem.

If Xan is so good just go them?

[Inforza]

Originally Posted by isildurx

Xan FI really arent THAT great to be honest, you have to build three types of fi\co and theyre really quite shit versus DE it would seem.

If Xan is so good just go them?

now you give them ideas i wanted to go xan and pwn them

[isildurx]

Yeah thats the whole thing. I think people who whine about xan fi being to strong now is people who refuse to go xan and just try to make xan fi as shit as possible in order to make 'their own' race stronger.

[Munkee]

As i said before, i dont think xan fi is all that. Take cath for instance.. xan have to build either to stop their de or to stop their fi.. put the same value fleets together vs xan and you only stand a chance to stop one.

[Gate]

Xan FI is probably the strongest fleet on paper.

How well it performs in reality depends on what everyone else builds. If there is a good mix of FI, CO and FR/DE class anti FI in the uni then xands shouldn't be overpowered because they'd have to invest so heavily in all 3 of their FI/CO ships. If there's very few harpy/interceptor, then I suspect xands will be able to concentrate on their vsh/pulsar fleet and will do much better.

In that case, CR terrans should have a better round.

[isildurx]

The fact that xans have to build one more fi than usual does make quite a big difference and yes perhaps xan fi is very strong on paper but the fact is that they are going to struggle vs DE and they cannot invest too much into fi\co because then they are going to be completely open to cr\bs inc.

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by isildurx

The fact that xans have to build one more fi than usual does make quite a big difference

They have two fighters, as they did last round...?

and yes perhaps xan fi is very strong on paper but the fact is that they are going to struggle vs DE

There's only two DE roidfleets though, and one is EMP (zero loss defense + salvage ftw) so I really don't see a struggle...

and they cannot invest too much into fi\co because then they are going to be completely open to cr\bs inc.

Cross defend

[isildurx]

Originally Posted by Cochese

They have two fighters, as they did last round...?

Yeah fi\co one more small ship than last round nehow

Im not saying xan isnt good, I just dont think that its too good and needs to be nerfed any further.

Maybe beta(lol) will prove me wrong, but I do not think that will be the case.

[Cochese]

Ah yeah, I agree there. They're definitely not "too good" or need any nerfing.

Lol beta lol

[VenoX]

Lets all play cath and have a nice, friendly, 0 loss round, deal?

[Cochese]

Sounds wonderful and cuddly.

[Rinoa]

so whats the latest on stats now the private beta has started?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Rinoa

so whats the latest on stats now the private beta has started?

There's a private beta on? Man let's hope nobody's going to base anything on something as retarded as that.

[Zeyi]

I don't really understand the idea behind having Xan BS, but other than that this rounds stats certainly show some new dynamics.

Although it might end up a FI heavy uni and just end in xan vs xan wars.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Zeyi

I don't really understand the idea behind having Xan BS, but other than that this rounds stats certainly show some new dynamics.

Although it might end up a FI heavy uni and just end in xan vs xan wars.

Or an alliance with plentiful terrans and good anti FI def having a whale of a time.

[isildurx]

I think its going to be hard to have both to be honest

[Wishmaster]

While there are combos which can roid xans, the thing is that if u go for those races / combos u will just end up being fi/co waved to the ground, and be unable to build value.
How can anyone go ter cr and survive in this environment? will have to xp hoe and or defleech like crazy.

[isildurx]

Not like xan doesnt have a gaping anti cr\bs hole.

If there is alot of ters then xan is gonna struggle, if there is a lot of xans then ters are gonna struggle. Hopefully there will be some form of balance.

[Wishmaster]

how likely is that though?
I m guessing like 35-40% xans.
And its not just that..its that the ter anti fi/co is really utter useless, unless u go FR, and even then u will end up in a situation where u need ingal FR to cover u, or full cover pretty much from FI/CO.

[isildurx]

Yeah well JBG has said that cath\ter might be upgraded if the beta implies that they are underpowered.

If Terrans purely build CR and FI it means that they can invest alot of value in harps and this will make it hard for xans to roid them unless the xan pumps alot of res into phants.
Afterall harps can be used to fake CR aswell so having alot of them isnt necessarily that bad.
I do guess xans will have quite a bit more phants than the other two FIs though due to fr\de probably being the weakest megaclass.

[isildurx]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

how likely is that though?
I m guessing like 35-40% xans.

Heh then its going to be a painful round for xan fi where alliances will rely on their xans to build phants as a defship and a huge amount of 0 loss deffleets flying around the uni.

[Zeyi]

Terran CR would be an option if the harpy could compete with Xan FI.

That said, if most people are fi/co then with good cross defending and a powerful cr/bs fleet one of these people would have more potential to win, but at a much higher risk.

The cathaar co fleet looks like a bad option this rnd, the CR is similar situation to Terran CR.

Plenty of potential for zik, and ETDs are in for a very interesting round with 4 pod classes, all sorts of flight ideas may appear there.

[isildurx]

Seriously, if terrans split their fleet ~~60% Cr and ~~40% Fi then i am convinced that it is possible to survive unless you start losing value.

http://beta.thrud.co.uk/index.php?loadfile=beta12398a0

Here both races has 40%~~ in deffleet and 60% in attackfleet. It really isnt THAT bad if you ask me..

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

how likely is that though?
I m guessing like 35-40% xans.
And its not just that..its that the ter anti fi/co is really utter useless, unless u go FR, and even then u will end up in a situation where u need ingal FR to cover u, or full cover pretty much from FI/CO.

I'd recommend going 100% xan bar scanners. Any strategy beats no strategy.

[Wishmaster]

you recommend 100% of the universe to go xans?

A universal strategy your talkign about?

[Zeyi]

If you recommend strategies like that maybe you should be altering your stats again...

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Zeyi

If you recommend strategies like that maybe you should be altering your stats again...

Yeah, because that's going to solve fundamental issues about targetability in planetarion.

you recommend 100% of the universe to go xans?

A universal strategy your talkign about?

In the grand history of things I don't care about this is certainly pretty high up there so I'm just going to ignore any posts like that in future.

[Wishmaster]

I think hes trying to be somewhat witty, and trying to say Omen should do that.. not that I see why he would say that. but thats my guess! and also its more about any strategy is better than no strategy. But that has also been said before in this thread. Basicly I dont understand his post, and its rather shit

[[DDK]gm]

Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?

Sign up for a beta account and make up your own mind about them?

[Zaejii]

Originally Posted by Cochese

Sign up for a beta account and make up your own mind about them?

or talk someone from another alliance into caring about the stats and sharing their ideas

[Cochese]

Yeah, that too.

If such people exist anymore...and judging by the dead-zone these forums have become, I'd say they don't :/

[eksero]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?

cant you do it?

[[DDK]gm]

we have thats why im asking, is pateam going to review these stats to either chuck them out or nerf xan

[Cochese]

No offense to PA Team, but if they were capable of making a decent set of stats, they would.

[[DDK]gm]

they are too busy coding to care about stats

[Cochese]

You just answered your own question then.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by [DDK]gm

Are we going to get an independant (non-asc) review of the stats before they are finalised?

You should see some of the great hidden strategies I talk about in #ascendancy while laughing at everyone else thinking I might have wasted my time creating an interesting set of stats and asking for reasonable suggestions to make them more balanced


Anyways, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make the harpy 40% harder to kill. Unfortunately they've taken away my beta access (or I've forgotten my password, who cares) but once I get it back that's what's in line!

[Cochese]

Increase Xan Fi initiatives to 9/10 ish while you're at it, that should "fix" things!

[isildurx]

Shame if xan gets nerfed just so CTs who plan on going Terran can make their race the best.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by isildurx

I think its going to be hard to have both to be honest

Like I said before, depends on race split.

Xands need lots of vsh to stop cutlass, but they also need lots of pulsars to nullify the init 5 FR (of which there are 3...) and lots of phants. Since ziks will probably build cutlass, the only thing phants are useful for are self def and stopping harpies.

If harpies aren't massively abundant in the uni, I would be inclined to go more vsh/pulsar heavy, making terr look better.