Planetarion Forums

Mong · 29 Jan 2003, 12:53

I've been reading stuff like CNN(US) and ABC(US), and find that compared to the BBC News(UK) site, they are just... rubbish.

Why? Well it all feels "wrong", I can't describe it at all. The BBC is (by its mandate) impartial. Somehow though, CNN and ABC seem even safer, less inflamatory - which theoretically shouldn't possible when compared to the BBC.

For instance, the Iraq thing is just sickening. The American public seems to be getting a very one-sided account. Do American news corps have to agree with the Govt? I'm wondering if there's a law I don't know about which says that they are not allowed to openly criticise the incumbent Govt? Or do they just decide what to tell the viewers/readers, safe in the knowledge that their (the news corps') dominance will ensure a single message?

No wonder the european view of Americans is that of "less educated". Which probably isn't fair, because I know plenty of smart Americans. Maybe a better term is "less well informed"?

I heartily recommend that you yanks read foreign news sites to get your international news. You'll be amazed by how (for example) anti-iraq-war we are.

This is by no means an anti-american rant at all, so please don't jump on that particular (old) bandwagon. Although as an aside, I insiste that The USA be renamed to "The United States of America between Canada and Mexico" or "The United States of Mid-North America"

M.

Snurx · 29 Jan 2003, 12:55

What I generaly feel, is that the American news (at least compared to Norway, and to a certaine extent BBC etc) are that they don't go as much in debth in the cases. They are just skimming.

Also, its as you say, whit the "rubbish" part.

Mong · 29 Jan 2003, 12:59

I also noticed that on CNN any "World News" was actually "World News involving the US".

I guess I just don't like the glossy presentation, and general "tabloid" feel of their sites.

M.

xtrasyn · 29 Jan 2003, 13:01

Well.

I'm not saying anything. Honestly.

wu_trax · 29 Jan 2003, 13:03

its a large country, maybe thats why they dont really care about the rest of the world.
the whole media only presents the things that sell well, especially if you only have private media and if the rest of the world doesnt sell they dont tell about it, quite simple

JammyJim · 29 Jan 2003, 13:24

if your a major tv network running a primetime news show disagreeing with the govt is going to be the least likely thing your going to do.

think it through logically.

if you disagree and begin questioning things 'a little too much' and asking uncomfortable questions, the people who tell you whats going on will stop talking.

Govt stops telling the news network whats going on. News network is 'last' to get the story. Ratings fall. etc etc etc

Mong · 29 Jan 2003, 13:29

JJ: At first reading, your point seems reasonable. But then, you neglect to note that investigative and revealing journalism is an entirely normal occurence in the UK, and the news corps certainly don't suffer from telling their particular "truths".

Of course, I'm not implying that the UK media is entirely trustworthy, but the range of exposes and opinions we have access to allows us to form our own opinions, if we have the brains or desire to do so.

M.

wu_trax · 29 Jan 2003, 13:32

'the sun' ?

Xillah · 29 Jan 2003, 13:33

the fact is that most ppl (especially patriotic americans imo) hate hearing negative things about thier country. When I read american newspapers sites it does have a sugar coated feel, as you said its like reading the sun rather than a respected news provider.

I dont think that its americans that are dumb as a rule, i just thing the guys who decide what the populous hears treats them like children.

personally i stick to the beebs webby or news (and my local rag for closer to home stuff).

Mong · 29 Jan 2003, 13:45

Quote:

Originally posted by wu_trax
'the sun' ?

...is just one of the many voices we hear, as opposed to the US univox.

The Sun does suck though, for ppl who passed some GCSEs :P

M.

Xillah · 29 Jan 2003, 14:03

Quote:

Originally posted by wu_trax
'the sun' ?

a good example of what wrong with the media. its one page of news, one page of tit, 10 pages of what celeb got drunk/got shagged/ got arrested/ got up this morning, 20 pages of sports, adverts and tv.

however it also gives you the comedy gold that is 'dear deadrie'

Quote:

Dear Deadrie,

My husband ran off with the baby sitter, shagged a cat and rammed the pet hampster up his arse all in the same day.

aw sorry to here that.

for more advice please call the 'My husband ran off with the baby sitter, shagged a cat and rammed the pet hampster up his arse all in the same day' line at the small price of £5 a minute, 1p of each call goes to charity.

that about covers the sun methinks.

wu_trax · 29 Jan 2003, 14:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Mong
...is just one of the many voices we hear, as opposed to the US univox.

The Sun does suck though, for ppl who passed some GCSEs :P

M.

true. we have the same crappy newspapers here aswell, although the sun seems to carry the crapness to the levels unknown to me.
but i have to admit that the bbc-news-page has the best european-news-coverage i know about. we dont have anything like that here (and i live in germany, which is in europe :/)

is there really no tv-station / newspaper in the us that is at least a little critical about the goverment??

Zither · 29 Jan 2003, 14:49

The Sun rocks

Read it and The Times every day and you get to know whats happening in the world/uk (times) then what people are being told to think (sun).

Starbucks · 29 Jan 2003, 15:04

the sun is a "newspaper" crossed between such things like "bella, "heat" and "radio times" with some added sport at the end and a little bit of news at the front to make it a newspaper

in that sort os sense, its a **** sandwich, good stuff at either end, and a lot of **** in the middle

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 15:06

Quote:

Originally posted by JammyJim
if you disagree and begin questioning things 'a little too much' and asking uncomfortable questions, the people who tell you whats going on will stop talking.

It tends to be on a person by person basis though. Let's look at a really extreme example: Mark Thomas (investigatice journalist and comedian). The majority of the government wouldn't talk to him if he were the last person on Earth yet the Channel 4 news team still get interviews.

Marilyn Manson · 29 Jan 2003, 15:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Julian Barnes
Pick up a newspaper in America and watch your country disappear.

29 Jan 2003, 15:41

Hmm... there is a problem with Europe's view of American government. You view our government as a single body, one entity which agrees on everything. This, however, is not true. 90% of all democrats (about half the country) are against war in Iraq and follow a more liberal approach.

Our government is anything but unified. Perhaps because our current President is for a war and is a conservative gives you guys this illusion, but in affect half of the government is arguing with him and urging him not to go to war!

For example last night we just had our state of the union address which after Bush promptly ranted and raved about an illusionary threat in Iraq, the leading man for the opposite party took the stage afterwards. Senator Kennedy is now in favor of sending the issue of us going to war back into the hands of Congress for them to vote on it.

CNN is viewed as a very liberal news coorporation over here, while Fox News is more conservative.

I dont think I would agree with the fact that our media is one sided. I do however agree that the BBC is the best media outlet in the world.

Mong · 29 Jan 2003, 15:49

Thanks "PA-Guru". I guess that because your media is generally so sycophantic to the govt, then we don't get to hear everything you do.

I am alarmed that you regard CNN as being a font of truth though!

M.

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 15:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Mong
I am alarmed that you regard CNN as being a font of truth though!

M.

Compare it to Murdoch's Fox and you'll see why

29 Jan 2003, 16:01

I do admit that CNN is not all that great. That is why I try to get my news from various sources, including the BBC (which always seems to be the most informative and helpful).

I do find one thing strange though. Generally US media tends to be liberal. The more liberal thinking Americans tend to disagree with the war in Iraq. But the media seems to be pro-war.

An example is that on a US news site a headline might read 'Iraq Has Alqeida Ties says Pres. Bush' and the article would go on to state why Bush thinks this and what to do about it. On the other hand, I just saw a headline on the BBC which stated 'Iraq Denies Alqueida Link' and the article went on to quote Iraqi government officials. See the difference in the way the two articles are presented?

It does seem odd that our current 'liberal' media seems to only be giving us one side in this issue.

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 16:04

Quote:

Originally posted by PA-Guru
It does seem odd that our current 'liberal' media seems to only be giving us one side in this issue.

That's because all news in the US is commercially driven and war makes GREAT news! Having the non-commercial BBC gives us an advantage here as they can afford to produce dull programmes without having to worry about ratings. This has the side effect that ITN follows pretty much the same style because they don't want to be seen as more 'tabloidy' than the BBC. Long live the BBC!

29 Jan 2003, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki
Isn't Fox news just seen as a joke?

Not too American conservatives who fill their heads with one sided garbage. Fox News is conservative which is fine but people need to hear things from both sides and then make a decision.

The underlying problem in America is that they hear something from one side and immediately pass judgement. They don't take the time to research both sides and then make an intelligent decision. I guess some of the blame rests on the US media for only giving us one side (On the Iraq issue)...

29 Jan 2003, 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
That's because all news in the US is commercially driven and war makes GREAT news! Having the non-commercial BBC gives us an advantage here as they can afford to produce dull programmes without having to worry about ratings. This has the side effect that ITN follows pretty much the same style because they don't want to be seen as more 'tabloidy' than the BBC. Long live the BBC!

I guess war does make great headlines and that is definitely a reason why. But a headline that read 'Maybe this is an unjust War' would make even bigger and greater headlines!

Perhaps the meida is hesitant to do this because it might start influencing more Americans and split our country, propelling us through a sort of 'second Vietnam'.

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by PA-Guru
Perhaps the meida is hesitant to do this because it might start influencing more Americans and split our country, propelling us through a sort of 'second Vietnam'.

But between the (un)Patriot(ic) act and the Dept of Homeland Security it's fairly obvious which way the wind is blowing and (from what I see at least) many American newsmen are as much political animals as the politicians themselves. You had the WTC debacle to deal with, we didn't. The whole "Anyone not pro war with Iraq is obviously insulting the memory of all those that died" thing makes newsmen scared so they toe the party line. In the UK it wouldn't happen that way but we've been dealing with terrorists (no single attack anything like the scale of the WTC but over many years instead) bombing/shooting us for a long time now, we know that blowing things up isn't the answer from first hand experience, the US government doesn't and I think that's a large part of the reason for the different attitudes. Unfortunately Uncle Tony is so far up Bush's arse he hasn't noticed that we don't want to go to war

Dibdevlin · 29 Jan 2003, 16:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Mong
I also noticed that on CNN any "World News" was actually "World News involving the US".

I guess I just don't like the glossy presentation, and general "tabloid" feel of their sites.

M.

Which has nothing to do with the quality or the usefullness of the News.

I lived in Europe for a while and I found European news to be horrible.

Honestly I think its what you have grown up with, I don't really think either system is better.

Dibdevlin · 29 Jan 2003, 16:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
The whole "Anyone not pro war with Iraq is obviously insulting the memory of all those that died" thing makes newsmen scared so they toe the party line.

Huh? What news programs are you watching in America or are you not? Every night they have long stories about the anti-war movement and express doubts about it left and right.

I think you are just projecting what you think the American media is thinking about the war as opposed to what exactly is happening over here.

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 16:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
I lived in Europe for a while and I found European news to be horrible.

Depends which part of Europe, The BBC are universally acclaimed as the Gods of straight news reporting.

America is better at kooky stuff though

Dibdevlin · 29 Jan 2003, 16:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki
Isn't Fox news just seen as a joke?

Not by anyone with a Brain.

I consider some of the programs on Fox to be similar to the Economist. They have an opinion on the news and try to show how their opinion is formed. But for the most part Fox doesn't shove its opinion down people's throats and it attempts to do a v good job bringing on opposing views.

O'Rielly is way too full of himself so I can't watch that show and I'd rather watch Nachman on MSNBC, so I don't watch Fox that much but its not a total joke.

Dibdevlin · 29 Jan 2003, 16:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Depends which part of Europe, The BBC are universally acclaimed as the Gods of straight news reporting.

America is better at kooky stuff though

Maybe in your world, but I watched if for more than a year and really I wouldn't call it straight. More like "Lets pretend we are giving an unbiased report."

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 16:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
Maybe in your world, but I watched if for more than a year and really I wouldn't call it straight. More like "Lets pretend we are giving an unbiased report."

I was up for a good discussion right till you said Fox News wasn't a joke and I realised there was no point. Did make me smile though

Dibdevlin · 29 Jan 2003, 16:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
I was up for a good discussion right till you said Fox News wasn't a joke and I realised there was no point. Did make me smile though

Its not a joke, like the World News or something like that which is a joke.

You are too quick to dismiss something that doesn't fit right into yoru view of the world as a joke. I don't always agree with Mother Jones but that hardly makes it a joke.

deerbarn · 29 Jan 2003, 16:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
I was up for a good discussion right till you said Fox News wasn't a joke and I realised there was no point. Did make me smile though

he did go on to say that it 'wasnt that bad'

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 16:44

Quote:

Originally posted by deerbarn
he did go on to say that it 'wasnt that bad'

That was in the edit though, the original post simply said "Not by anyone with a Brain.".

I put Fox in the same bin I put the Sun, it's very simplistic and too emotional. News reporting should be emotionless and 'straight' leaving people to make up their own minds on the subject, anything else isn't news but opinion.

29 Jan 2003, 16:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
That was in the edit though, the original post simply said "Not by anyone with a Brain.".

I put Fox in the same bin I put the Sun, it's very simplistic and too emotional. News reporting should be emotionless and 'straight' leaving people to make up their own minds on the subject, anything else isn't news but opinion.

Agreed.

Although opinion shows like O'rielly and Hannity and Colmbes aren't bad if you like that kind of stuff, just dont get that confused with news reporting.
I would consider Larry King to be a news reporter or 60 minutes, as they simply ask questions and get answers... they dont try to interpret the answers and form an opinion.

Sub · 29 Jan 2003, 16:57

I don't really see how you can tell who is biased and who isn't... if everyone is biased then you will never get the true story, and therefore have no point of reference.

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 17:04

Quote:

Originally posted by PA-Guru
Agreed.

Although opinion shows like O'rielly and Hannity and Colmbes aren't bad if you like that kind of stuff, just dont get that confused with news reporting.
I would consider Larry King to be a news reporter or 60 minutes, as they simply ask questions and get answers... they dont try to interpret the answers and form an opinion.

Exactly

I love Jeremy Paxman but would never consider Newsnight a news programme, it's pure opinion (and Paxman making stupid people look stupid which always amuses me).

LHC · 29 Jan 2003, 17:05

Paxman is an obnoxious penis.

Dibdevlin · 29 Jan 2003, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by PA-Guru

I would consider Larry King to be a news reporter or 60 minutes, as they simply ask questions and get answers... they dont try to interpret the answers and form an opinion.

You think 60 minutes just ask question and gets answers?

Yeah and then they edit 20 hours of flm into 10 minutes.

Oh and if the story isn't working well they show some ambush footage to liven it up.

Please. You have a strong bias as to what you consider "news". They are all biased, you just like your bias hidden more than other people do.

Miserableman · 29 Jan 2003, 17:22

Quote:

Originally posted by LHC
Paxman is an obnoxious penis.

laff

I don't particularly rate the BBC News 24 service, they seem to have monkeys behind the scenes - watch it for half an hour and you're virtually guaranteed some ****-up where the camera's pointing the wrong direction or a news report isn't ready in time or whatnot. CNN is much more professional, and I always thought it was a pretty decent news channel.

However I do rate the BBC News bulletins on BBC1 and the BBC News website as the best sources for news in the world (only Channel 4 News at 7pm comes close). The website in particular I rate as my news source of choice.

29 Jan 2003, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki
Isn't Fox news just seen as a joke?

No. But watching mainly euro's answer themselves about American news sources IS a joke.

Funny how it suddenly got twisted into how sucky your own news services are.

29 Jan 2003, 17:30

Quote:

Originally posted by PA-Guru
Agreed.

Although opinion shows like O'rielly and Hannity and Colmbes aren't bad if you like that kind of stuff, just dont get that confused with news reporting.
I would consider Larry King to be a news reporter or 60 minutes, as they simply ask questions and get answers... they dont try to interpret the answers and form an opinion.

Well, you just shot your credibility factor in the foot! Larry King? 60 Minutes?

Riiiiiiiight. Those are two of the most lopsided shows on television right now - and they AREN'T "news" programs. 60 Minutes has an agenda - "guilty until proven innocent, and even if you look innocent, we'll present the program so it looks like you're guilty". Larry King is absolute fluff, and I keep expecting him to start licking the soles of his guest's shoes.

Sub · 29 Jan 2003, 17:31

You know Euros with Sky can watch American news channels right?

LHC · 29 Jan 2003, 17:31

I generally watch the BBC.

Especially for the Look North local news.

Helen Morton, phwoar.

Sky News seems remarkably good, and I can't really comment on CNN, as I don't watch it, since I don't need so many bloody news channels.

Gayle29uk · 29 Jan 2003, 17:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Wî†ne§§ †GñA†
No. But watching mainly euro's answer themselves about American news sources IS a joke.

Funny how it suddenly got twisted into how sucky your own news services are.

We get CNN, Fox, etc over here as well you know. I'm also a registered user on the NYT webby so at least have some experience of the US media first hand. Criticism of the media is a national pastime in the UK, except for the BBC. Pretty much everyone acknowledges the BBC as a reliable source of good quality news reporting.

29 Jan 2003, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Sub
You know Euros with Sky can watch American news channels right?

If you're talking to me, then yes, I know this. I had Sky when I was stationed in Germany - the only way to get English language broadcasts.

And yes, I watched the BBC, I have watched CNN, Fox, and a few other "international" news programs. So far, the best and most unbiased I have found is Fox.

So shoot me.

29 Jan 2003, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk
We get CNN, Fox, etc over here as well you know. I'm also a registered user on the NYT webby so at least have some experience of the US media first hand. Criticism of the media is a national pastime in the UK, except for the BBC. Pretty much everyone acknowledges the BBC as a reliable source of good quality news reporting.

Funny, many Americans see Fox and CNN as credible news sources, and the BBC and others as "not so credible".

Can't imagine why that is.

Starbucks · 29 Jan 2003, 18:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Wî†ne§§ †GñA†
Funny, many Americans see Fox and CNN as credible news sources, and the BBC and others as "not so credible".

Can't imagine why that is.

your all sheep

Sub · 29 Jan 2003, 18:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Wî†ne§§ †GñA†
If you're talking to me, then yes, I know this. I had Sky when I was stationed in Germany - the only way to get English language broadcasts.

And yes, I watched the BBC, I have watched CNN, Fox, and a few other "international" news programs. So far, the best and most unbiased I have found is Fox.

So shoot me.

Oddly, I find Fox to be the most biased. I guess it's probably because you are pretty much told from birth that rightwing=nazi over here. I think CNN is alright, but Fox news seems quite amusing really. They just seem to be the sterotypical Americans.

Deffeh · 29 Jan 2003, 19:27

why did you have to be so aggressive about your point Witness? This isnt an america/anti-america thread. I cant be ****ed with another one of them.

And will you please stop saying "euros". The BBC although being widley spread in many forms, is the british brodcasting corporation. Its nothing like Austria's ORF1 for example, and all the rest of the europes news. You cannot, repeat, cannot, keep classifying europe as a country, kapeech?

Texan · 29 Jan 2003, 19:28

Quote:

Originally posted by wu_trax
true. we have the same crappy newspapers here aswell, although the sun seems to carry the crapness to the levels unknown to me.
but i have to admit that the bbc-news-page has the best european-news-coverage i know about. we dont have anything like that here (and i live in germany, which is in europe :/)

is there really no tv-station / newspaper in the us that is at least a little critical about the goverment??

The New York Times writes a lot of stuff that is critical of Bush and his policies. Of course, you probably are not reading much NYT stuff because you have to sign up for the web site. Here is what I could get without signing up. I read the whole article at work where I get the information sent to me. It is definitely an anti-Bush article.

MAUREEN DOWD
The Empire Strikes First
Last night, President Bush tried to sell skittish Americans on a war with Iraq by alluding to the possibility of a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda.