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19 Jun 2010, 23:35
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#1
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Non directed and witty
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
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Auto Logout
Its one of those features that just gets frustrating in my opinion.
Could it be changed so the length of the timeout can be changed/turned off (via preferences) .
For example changed to 4/6/12/24 hours or something? I mean maybe in the days of shared computers it was needed but now i don't see why? (unless im completely missing something)
I know its not a big deal, but its annoying to be waiting for a brep and then be confronted with the login screen and have to do that stupid bot stopper too..
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
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19 Jun 2010, 23:36
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#2
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Auto Logout
I am pro this.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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20 Jun 2010, 00:21
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Emerald Dream
Posts: 116
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Re: Auto Logout
I agree. Having to login every 2 hours it's just stupid.
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20 Jun 2010, 00:29
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#4
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EMO HC OF ASCENDANCY
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ålesund, Norway
Posts: 338
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Re: Auto Logout
Tis to stop ze botz
__________________
[Fury] First,
[Fury] Last,
[Fury] Will never be a thing of the past!
Ministry for life.
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20 Jun 2010, 03:59
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#5
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Auto Logout
12 hour time out would be great, then my bot could play whenever I went to sleep, and my alliance would never need another real scanner again!* Oh wait that would be cheating....
Longer timeouts would be great if no one ever cheated, so promise to stop cheating and maybe the PA Team will lengthen the timeout.
*Note, sarcasm....
__________________
Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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20 Jun 2010, 11:13
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#6
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: Auto Logout
I have no problems with having a bot stopper. But personally for me 2 ticks is to much. 3 ticks would be fine with me
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Planetarion veteran
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20 Jun 2010, 12:44
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#7
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Auto Logout
also pro removing/lenghtening auto logout
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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20 Jun 2010, 12:58
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: Auto Logout
The bot stopper is only limiting cheating as opposed to removing it. (There are people with code that can answer the bot checker; there are people using VNC.) Therefore, remove this imbalance and make it easy for everyone to cheat. Yes, I'm being serious, the case has been made many times that allowing "cheating", and thus an increase in planets, would be a good thing.
Also, remove the faggotry that is the auto logout.
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20 Jun 2010, 13:04
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#9
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Non directed and witty
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
12 hour time out would be great, then my bot could play whenever I went to sleep, and my alliance would never need another real scanner again!* Oh wait that would be cheating....
Longer timeouts would be great if no one ever cheated, so promise to stop cheating and maybe the PA Team will lengthen the timeout.
*Note, sarcasm....
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Lets be honest here the people who want to cheat in this game.. Do so already...
The bot stopper is years old, anyone who actually wants to code something to go through it, probably could. Its more of an annoyance to the rest of us than anything else, and id almost be happy if someone wanted to code a bot army, its not like it would be hard to detect and it would mean more planets than the 300 of us who play round on round.
Its annoying for example when logged in at work (using spreadsheet) and then suddenly bang, logged out and presented with a huge picture of a friggin planet . Pretty obvious!
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
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20 Jun 2010, 13:47
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: England
Posts: 99
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb
The bot stopper is only limiting cheating as opposed to removing it. (There are people with code that can answer the bot checker; there are people using VNC.) Therefore, remove this imbalance and make it easy for everyone to cheat. Yes, I'm being serious, the case has been made many times that allowing "cheating", and thus an increase in planets, would be a good thing.
Also, remove the faggotry that is the auto logout.
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Was going to say this on another post, I would be very pro this as lets face it at least it would be something new and different even for one round. It would also give MH a round off from being better ruiners than ascendancy
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20 Jun 2010, 17:28
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#11
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh
Lets be honest here the people who want to cheat in this game.. Do so already... with a huge picture of a friggin planet . Pretty obvious!
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Brilliant piece of logic here, "because those who cheat already are cheating we should let everyone cheat." Boy someone give this to the government, they should stop making me pay my taxes because some get away with tax fraud, so I shouldn't have to pay either.....
Seriously though, I understand that the bot stopper is annoying, and perhaps can be beaten, but that isn't a good argument to get rid of it, it is actually a much better argument that it needs to be upgraded.
Anyone that is in favor of encouraging cheating must have been one of those guys who set up a server for (insert your favorite 1st person shooter), gave themselves God mode, and then simply spends his days laughing as he kills helpless newbies who can't hurt them. If that's what you want this game to become count me out!
__________________
Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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20 Jun 2010, 18:57
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#12
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Non directed and witty
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
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Re: Auto Logout
I dont see why you have suddenly turned this into a thread about cheating?
So suddenly because i want the auto timeout made longer i am encouraging cheating?
What i am saying is it is easy enough to cheat as it is, if people have cheating in mind they can already cheat without a problem, this method just is an annoyance for everyone else..
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
Last edited by Benneh; 20 Jun 2010 at 20:45.
Reason: Fiery told me to...
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20 Jun 2010, 19:01
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#13
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Seriously though, I understand that the bot stopper is annoying, and perhaps can be beaten,
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Has been beaten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Anyone that is in favor of encouraging cheating must have been one of those guys who set up a server for (insert your favorite 1st person shooter), gave themselves God mode, and then simply spends his days laughing as he kills helpless newbies who can't hurt them. If that's what you want this game to become count me out!
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Wow. This is such a non-argument that I don't even know where to start.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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20 Jun 2010, 19:51
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#14
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh
So suddenly because i want the auto timeout made longer i am encouraging cheating?
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Having a significantly longer time out increases the chances people will cheat, prior to having the bot stopper bots were used by many players, since the bot stopper was added there has been a decrease in this. I fully acknowledge the bot stopper is weak, which is a good reason to strengthen it, or to come up with a completely different approach to dealing with cheaters in the game.
Using the argument that "people who are going to cheat are doing it anyway" is not a strong argument to remove the bot stopper or increase the time out.
One reasonable argument would be to length the timeout to say 4 hours and strengthen the bot stopper to a bot stopper that is much more effective. Or to just decide that 4 hours isn't a big deal verses 2 so just change the idle timeout.
A long timeout (anything over 8 hours) is easily abused using a bot, so I don't think it would be a good idea. I am NOT saying a short timeout or the current bot stopper stops cheating, I am saying that a long timeout increases the likelihood that people will cheat and should therefore be avoided.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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20 Jun 2010, 21:00
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#15
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Non directed and witty
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #ascendancy
Posts: 814
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Re: Auto Logout
Well even 4 hours would be a good option in my opinion!
__________________
CATHAAAAAARGH
I've won 4 rounds.
I'm kinda a big deal.
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20 Jun 2010, 22:26
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#16
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: Auto Logout
At least you notice after 2 ticks that someone in your gal has gone idle/off/away.....
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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21 Jun 2010, 12:47
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#17
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The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
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Re: Auto Logout
As I've said before - why not vary the chance of a CAPTCHA appearing and the duration of allowed login time according to the account? If a user is suspected of cheating then an admin could set the account to the most strict settings possible (2 hour and CAPTCHA 100% occurance).
If the activity of an account looks safe then there shouldn't be any need to question the user. If they're logged in for more than 16 hours a day, a high ranking planet, then set the chance of seeing the CAPTHCA to a certain percentage and the logout to 2 hours. I'm sure you could come up with some formula which doesn't annoy everyone.
Do what other games do - look for the behaviours of cheaters and punish them instead of annoying your entire playerbase.
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22 Jun 2010, 12:27
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: Auto Logout
Pleeeasseee increase it. Even a 4 hour logout is a huge improvement.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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22 Jun 2010, 13:11
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#19
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
12 hour time out would be great, then my bot could play whenever I went to sleep, and my alliance would never need another real scanner again!* Oh wait that would be cheating....
Longer timeouts would be great if no one ever cheated, so promise to stop cheating and maybe the PA Team will lengthen the timeout.
*Note, sarcasm....
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Totally on the nose there monroe.
could not agree more.
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22 Jun 2010, 13:51
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#20
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Auto Logout
Well, now that paisley has posted I'm sure we can all extrapolate that raising the auto logout time is in fact a great idea, and it should go up to once a day at most.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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22 Jun 2010, 14:05
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#21
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The Original Carebear
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
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Re: Auto Logout
The captcha is not really a serious deterrent to competent coders at all. If you're able to write a bot you're probably also capable of sitting down with image processing libraries and ocr software to beat it. Do not forget that the average player does not have the competence to sit down and write a bot in the first place. If bots were to become widespread it would ultimately be probably 1 implementation or maybe a couple that were used by multiple people.
I'd replace it with the official captcha and either increase the duration or make it a random chance to get the captcha on login (Though this obviously entails that repeated failures would have to be more extensively researched by the multihunter team).
Basically I envision a situation where you get timed out every x hours with some probability and then you have to pass the captcha (The one that's actually difficult to beat) to get back in. If you then can't get it right in a few attempts, you get temporarily closed or whatever. It'd be I think no less secure than the current situation and a lot less annoying.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.
Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
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22 Jun 2010, 14:16
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#22
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The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
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Re: Auto Logout
One quick suggestion to help ease the pain.
If the math questions aren't going to be changed, add a javascript function which can calculate the text box input and then submit the form in one go. So if you've got "seventy four + 49" as the question, the user enters "74+49", clicks submit - javascript would analyse the input to see if one of the symbols + - * x / are in the input, calculates it client side and then submits it.
It would just be one of those small little things which could make a large impact in user satisfaction.
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22 Jun 2010, 14:23
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#23
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well, now that paisley has posted I'm sure we can all extrapolate that raising the auto logout time is in fact a great idea, and it should go up to once a day at most.
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I agree with a post made by monroe Pointing out a fairly simple points to WHY THERE IS AN AUTO LOG OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'm not a fan of the auto log out either but it is there for a reason previously pointed out.
And just out of spite for you JBG ... I have no problems with the auto log out screen even if it means folk have difficulty reading the login questions through a VNC client to log in to their gal mates planet.
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22 Jun 2010, 14:26
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#24
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The Original Carebear
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
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Re: Auto Logout
It is a bot-stopper, not a VNC stopper. There really isn't any feasible way of stopping someone who really wants badly to account share as all the information sent between planetarion and a player is textual. Now you could portscan to show that it's possible that a client machine has a VNC service running but I don't know if that's very legal and it just proves the possible existence of a cheat, not that there actually is one. On the other hand you could work around that too by avoiding VNC entirely and still run a remote web browser that multiple people could connect to.
Bot-stopping is something else entirely and I think it's viable to do this without it being a huge annoyance for people.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.
Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
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22 Jun 2010, 14:32
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#25
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
As I've said before - why not vary the chance of a CAPTCHA appearing and the duration of allowed login time according to the account? If a user is suspected of cheating then an admin could set the account to the most strict settings possible (2 hour and CAPTCHA 100% occurance).
If the activity of an account looks safe then there shouldn't be any need to question the user. If they're logged in for more than 16 hours a day, a high ranking planet, then set the chance of seeing the CAPTHCA to a certain percentage and the logout to 2 hours. I'm sure you could come up with some formula which doesn't annoy everyone.
Do what other games do - look for the behaviours of cheaters and punish them instead of annoying your entire playerbase.
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worth exploring via testing and similar ideas
Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
It is a bot-stopper,
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I totally agree for why it is needed
Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
not a VNC stopper..
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I didn't say it was a VNC stopper just more of annoyance.
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22 Jun 2010, 14:54
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#26
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Awesome
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Hague
Posts: 291
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Re: Auto Logout
How about auto logout 1 minute after you login. That would surely restrict bots
__________________
Apprime PR - taking away ur problems since 2008
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22 Jun 2010, 15:48
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 34
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
One quick suggestion to help ease the pain.
If the math questions aren't going to be changed, add a javascript function which can calculate the text box input and then submit the form in one go. So if you've got "seventy four + 49" as the question, the user enters "74+49", clicks submit - javascript would analyse the input to see if one of the symbols + - * x / are in the input, calculates it client side and then submits it.
It would just be one of those small little things which could make a large impact in user satisfaction.
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I've heard this has already been done via chrome/ff extensions/grease monkey, so surely there's an easy one.
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22 Jun 2010, 16:02
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#28
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Auto Logout
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
One quick suggestion to help ease the pain.
If the math questions aren't going to be changed, add a javascript function which can calculate the text box input and then submit the form in one go. So if you've got "seventy four + 49" as the question, the user enters "74+49", clicks submit - javascript would analyse the input to see if one of the symbols + - * x / are in the input, calculates it client side and then submits it.
It would just be one of those small little things which could make a large impact in user satisfaction.
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Why they ever changed from "type this word" to "calculate this" is beyond me. Computers are calculators, for ****s sake, that's what they do!
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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28 Jun 2010, 08:09
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: Auto Logout
Is it just me or has the auto logout time been increased?
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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28 Jun 2010, 09:25
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 936
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Re: Auto Logout
__________________
If the opponent resists, CaRnage there will be!
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28 Jun 2010, 09:32
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#31
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Auto Logout
It's just you.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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28 Jun 2010, 11:07
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#32
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: Auto Logout
I'll chime in so much as to say that the captcha's have not only been beaten, I'm told they were ridiculously easy to beat.
Do realize that there's only been a handful of bots, and the more famous were coded by some of the most brilliant professional codemonkeys around. Trying to create something which they couldn't bypass is pretty much a fine exercise in futility.
ps. Regarding the scanner example, isn't it about ****ing time we got rid of scanplanets? The solutions were ironed out more than half a decade ago ffs.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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