The Mysterious Masked Multihunter..... Revealed

[HobbieRogue4]

Originally posted by Mit
Personally, as a PA Team member, i don't think we should be forced not to play, granted, i can see certain members of PA Team shouldn't be allowed to play seriously (the hunters / admins), but we should still be allowed to have a planet and 'attempt' to play. Would you give up lots of your time to work voulenterily for PA, if u then weren't allowed to play?

That's what 1:1 is for.

(lolololol)

[Cicada]

wow...

well, in this thread, i agree with ad0, and i agree with Petru.

3 Rounds now, and Germania still can't get over his anti-titans feelings. I've known Parra for a long time, and i can't honestly think of anyone that would be able to do this job better..

[gzambo]

Congratulations on your appointment ParraCida, ignore the whingers whiners moaners and groaners as im sure u know PA assumes quilt until proven innocent on the forums.



"the best gamekeepers are ex-poacher's"


as an experienced player i'm sure that you will make an excellent multi-hunter and i can fully understand the reasoning behind not announceing it until you had proven yourself at the job

PS i thought bong had 10 planets closed

[Scouse]

Some people in this thread seem to be a little confused. The 'testing period' PA Team refer to is not a test in allowing a multihunter to play a proper planet. The 'test' was to hide the identity of the multihunter, whilst not playing a proper planet.

ParraCida became in a multihunter at the start of round 9, or so I read, at which time he had a tiny planet, in a 'retired' galaxy, where only one or two people had alliances and cared about the game. Noone can level any argument that he was a bad choice then, as he fitted in with the whole 'not playing seriously' thing.

So round 9.5 comes along and he finds himself in a good galaxy, and decides to play properly, after having done the job for a couple of months already. What should he have done? Ignored cheats in top galaxies so it didn't look like he was closing them for his benefit? He couldn't, he's not the sole mulithunter, as explained here. Close non-cheats in his gal to even things up? Crashed his fleet so his galaxy didn't win anyway, so he could avoid all of this?


He probably shouldn't have started playing properly in the first place, but I doubt when he started doing that he thought his galaxy would finish #1.

I think a PA-Playing multihunter is better than a non-PA-Playing multihunter, as they have more interest, and more knowledge. Knowing what alliance certain planets are, who owns what planets and knowing the community will improve the efficiency of a multihunter, whether it be Parra or whoever.

I dislike people making comparisons with other things in regard to PA, this is not one of those things, we arn't testing rats or any other nonsense. It's easy to find a rl situation to support your theory, so I'd recommend against anyone using them to back themselves up.

In round 4, when Moridin was a multihunter, and part of the side fighting me, I was against him being a multihunter, so I understand people's reactions to this. However, Parra doesn't have an alliance, despite a lot of people thinking he's LDK. The people closest to him don't play seriously, don't have big planets, or alliances, and have no reason to cheat, so suggesting he helped them to do so is out of order. If Titans were still alive and Parra was a multihunter you'd have a right to complain, but it's not.


Here I would say how much of a good appointment he was, and how well he did his job, but that would seem like I was defending him, when he has nothing to defend. Petru has a point, if the multihunter was, for example, Hicks, a retired ex-Fury person, who was in the top gal for rd 9.5*, I think the complaining faces would be different and the opinion of certain people in this thread would be completely reversed.


* edited

[cice]

I've been reading this thread and as i go along i can see that there's few of you who don't know what you are talking about.
First let me say this.
To hide information and mix among players as they were normal is the best way to do the job that multihunters are doing. Period.
(I mean, they ARE spying on other players right!)
And for the second.
To all those who talked about bank manager and stuff. You seem like you've never experienced real life before.
For example:
K-W said: My bank provides me with clear records of my accounts and provides the govenrment with clear accounts of what goes on with its money. Perhaps youd like to try another example?
They provide you with clear records of your account, and not with what the manager is doing but you have absolutely no idea (like it or not) what do they provide the government with. I can assure you that such people "earn" more money then they show on paper. I assume you know where it's comming from
Redissal said: If my bank manager is sacked because they've broken the law I expect (and will get) a public trial where I will learn exactly what they did.
The hell you will. They will just tell you what you need to know to keep your mouth shut. You will never see the big picture of it all

So... I think PA Team did a good thing by not revealing the information on ParraCida. They should do the same with all of multihunters for the rounds to come. It's the only way to efficiently deal with the scums that don't know anything else but to cheat. We're just gonna have to trust them that they are doin'g their job the way it's supposed to be done... just like you trust your bank!
Keep up the good work PA Team!

[HobbieRogue4]

Originally posted by Scouse
I think a PA-Playing multihunter is better than a non-PA-Playing multihunter, as they have more interest, and more knowledge. Knowing what alliance certain planets are, who owns what planets and knowing the community will improve the efficiency of a multihunter, whether it be Parra or whoever.

Obviously. But you don't need a "real" planet to do this.

I'll forego beating a dead horse at this point though.

[Jebba]

i think and that's my opinion only that people...or socalled volounteers,in this case multi hunters,who have admin rights or whatever you call it,should not be able to play this game/have a planet....then this would have been all avoided simple as that

[Colt]

Originally posted by WipeOut
Personally I think instead of whining about the lack of transparancy for the community members not in the loop, you guys should perhaps consider thanking these guys for their efforts. I am personally quite happy that a team like this at least exists, and I am happy that people are willing to put in the effort to make it work, and it has, worked relatively well last round in respect to other rounds. And mistakes are always made, and will always be made. But hey, it is always easier to point out the mistakes, rather than pointing out the accomplishments.

These people put in effort to make this game more enjoyable for us to play, and they do it for free. So if you want to complain, do a better job, or hold your peace.

Thanks guys, keep up the good work.

[Torz]

Theres NO need to resort to such insults Torz. A serious discussion is going on here and comments like yours are what turns such threads into flames -Wakey




Why is someone like Chax not a multihunter?

So a multi-hunter is someone who tried to let Fred farm his roids when it was Illegal, wd guys real winner u have here...........

[Torz]

Parra is a she?

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by Torz
Parra is a she?

Not since the operation dear.

[Torz]

Dread clearly edited his post.

Originally posted by Torz
Dread clearly edited his post.

such wild accusations!

[Petru]

Originally posted by Queen DAX
Say you entered the lottery and the person who draws the ticket acutely pick his own ticket instead of yours ? would you not question every action that lead to it ?

No, heh, since a lottery draw is as random as random can be.

It wasn't a personal dig, as I explained at the end of my post if you read. It wasn't meant to get germ "fired up", I just honestly believe he wouldn't be making anywhere near as much noise if someone from his camp was the secret hunter. It's an opinion I hold, not a flame/dig.

[Al_zz]

More people got closed than before in this round.
Still not enough though
I suggest
"Hire a few of those whiniers in the thread to catch more !!"

I was decently happy with multihunting this round. Most of what I reported was closed. It seemed better than in earlier rounds.
Still it amazed me that so much obvious multies could stay undetected for so long. You need only very basic tracking programs to catch half of the multies in the first two days after protection ends.

There might be a slight conflict of interest but frankly the cheating is much worse than this issue. I'll take a few multihunters with a conflict of interest over 1000 cheating twats anyday.

hAl

[Redissal]

It's refreshing to see some people now supporting ParraCida playing pa and being a hunter, I was beginning to think the issue was 100% clear-cut. But it seems most of these are people who know ParraCida well. Would they feel differently if Joe who they'd never met was a hunter and suddenly won PA? Because this is the situation the majority of players are in. We don't know if ParraCida is trustworthy, we don't know if he cheats, we don't know if he is biased when closing planets. We'd like to trust pateam to appoint someone who is trusworthy, honest and unbiased but past history has proven this isn't always possible.


Anyway I'm glad the multihunting situation will now change and my investigations weren't in vain. I am however, somewhat perplexed by the reaction from pateam and I'm going to take a cue from something Structural Integrity posted and attempt some constructive critiscism. I don't think pateam can be hurt much more by this thread and I can't help feeling partly responsible for that, although I shouldn't. Perhaps my critiscism will, in the long run, help to undo the harm.

It's been stated a number of times that pateam are attempting to portray a positive, professional image. "Have a little faith", "Give us a chance", etc... Here's some examples of ways to respond to this incident if you want to portray a professional image:

• "Yes we made a mistake, sorry, multihunters won't play properly in round 10"
  
• "We firmly believe multihunters can play properly, without being biased. This is our descision and it will stand for round 10"
  (Probably not popular, but professional nonetheless)
  
• "ParraCida is not the multihunter, it is Joe and he doesn't play PA"
  (Very damage limiting if you can pull off the lie, it may not be professional but it appears so)
  

Here's how not to project a professional image:

• Post one helpful response answering many of the questions but avoiding the core issue, then...
  
• Make another 20 (count them) posts where you flounder around, trying to justify the situation but still not addressing the issue, then...
  
• Stare in horror at the numerous posts from people who think the situation is wrong, presumably talk with some other pateam members behind the scenes and get persuaded that infact we are all correct. Multihunters should not play PA. Then...
  
• Make a post to this affect, stating that it was the intention all along to return to the round 4 policy, but you forgot to mention this before. Further, invent a story that the whole policy change was a big 'experiment', somehow taking 2 whole rounds to come to the inevitable conclusion that the community doesn't want multihunters to play pa, despite noone in the community actually giving their opinion until now, because had they had no idea the experiment was even taking place.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is what it seems to me, the player, has happened. Perhaps there was an experiment, perhaps the intention all along really was to reinstate the old policy. But it doesn't matter, because I, the player, haven't gotten a very professional vibe from the whole incident. While I did welcome your quick response initially, what I think you should have done is wait a while before posting. Judge the general opinion of the players. Consult with relevant members of pateam. Come up with a single, considered, coherent, honest reaction to the incident.

Finally while I'm on the subject, constantly whinging about how the players won't give you a chance is not professional either. Ignore the insults. If you don't have something professional to say, don't say anything at all. The less silly things you say, the less ammunition people have to fire at you and the less you will feel the urge to tell the "ungrateful b***ards" to "shut the f*** up", "We're not paid you know, give us respect damnit", etc... You'll have broken the cycle and lifted your image.

These are some reasons why I see pateam members as unprofessional and some suggestions for improving things. Hope they're helpful.

[MrBrick]

Originally posted by Redissal
It's refreshing to see some people now supporting ParraCida playing pa and being a hunter, I was beginning to think the issue was 100% clear-cut. But it seems most of these are people who know ParraCida well. Would they feel differently if Joe who they'd never met was a hunter and suddenly won PA? Because this is the situation the majority of players are in. We don't know if ParraCida is trustworthy, we don't know if he cheats, we don't know if he is biased when closing planets. We'd like to trust pateam to appoint someone who is trusworthy, honest and unbiased but past history has proven this isn't always possible.


Anyway I'm glad the multihunting situation will now change and my investigations weren't in vain. I am however, somewhat perplexed by the reaction from pateam and I'm going to take a cue from something Structural Integrity posted and attempt some constructive critiscism. I don't think pateam can be hurt much more by this thread and I can't help feeling partly responsible for that, although I shouldn't. Perhaps my critiscism will, in the long run, help to undo the harm.

It's been stated a number of times that pateam are attempting to portray a positive, professional image. "Have a little faith", "Give us a chance", etc... Here's some examples of ways to respond to this incident if you want to portray a professional image:

• "Yes we made a mistake, sorry, multihunters won't play properly in round 10"
  
• "We firmly believe multihunters can play properly, without being biased. This is our descision and it will stand for round 10"
  (Probably not popular, but professional nonetheless)
  
• "ParraCida is not the multihunter, it is Joe and he doesn't play PA"
  (Very damage limiting if you can pull off the lie, it may not be professional but it appears so)
  

Here's how not to project a professional image:

• Post one helpful response answering many of the questions but avoiding the core issue, then...
  
• Make another 20 (count them) posts where you flounder around, trying to justify the situation but still not addressing the issue, then...
  
• Stare in horror at the numerous posts from people who think the situation is wrong, presumably talk with some other pateam members behind the scenes and get persuaded that infact we are all correct. Multihunters should not play PA. Then...
  
• Make a post to this affect, stating that it was the intention all along to return to the round 4 policy, but you forgot to mention this before. Further, invent a story that the whole policy change was a big 'experiment', somehow taking 2 whole rounds to come to the inevitable conclusion that the community doesn't want multihunters to play pa, despite noone in the community actually giving their opinion until now, because had they had no idea the experiment was even taking place.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is what it seems to me, the player, has happened. Perhaps there was an experiment, perhaps the intention all along really was to reinstate the old policy. But it doesn't matter, because I, the player, haven't gotten a very professional vibe from the whole incident. While I did welcome your quick response initially, what I think you should have done is wait a while before posting. Judge the general opinion of the players. Consult with relevant members of pateam. Come up with a single, considered, coherent, honest reaction to the incident.

Finally while I'm on the subject, constantly whinging about how the players won't give you a chance is not professional either. Ignore the insults. If you don't have something professional to say, don't say anything at all. The less silly things you say, the less ammunition people have to fire at you and the less you will feel the urge to tell the "ungrateful b***ards" to "shut the f*** up", "We're not paid you know, give us respect damnit", etc... You'll have broken the cycle and lifted your image.

These are some reasons why I see pateam members as unprofessional and some suggestions for improving things. Hope they're helpful.

Morning, all.

Right, well, Yes, I did "flounder" a little, and have freely admitted to being far too focussed on defending the issue.

Yes, a mistake was made. No, Parracida is not having a planet next round.

A lack of proffessionalism? Well, I've been doing this job for about a week, so thanks for breaking me in at the deep end
My current objective with PA Team is to achieve a balance between professionalism and informality internally, as this is the least the community can expect from PA Team.

Apologies for "Rambling" in past threads. I made some valid points, and let my own "floundering" mask them.

Hope that answer helps, and "God, I'm tired".

[Cicada]

Originally posted by MrBrick

Yes, a mistake was made. No, Parracida is not having a planet next round.

tbh, i think thats bollocks..

if this thread hadn't existed would he have been stopped from having a planet? Probably not.

Is there any evidence at all that he used his influence to make sure his galaxy won? No

Has he shown he can keep his Planetarion playing and his multihunting duties seperate? Yes (we in F.E.A.R, didn't know he was a multihunter till the round had finished).

So, i think he should be allowed to have a real planet if he wants to. I do see a conflict of interest, but why is that a bad thing if he can be prefessional and keep them seperate?

I think banning him from playing for real is just another **** up for Pa Team responsing the demands of retards with no understanding for the job you do.

[MrBrick]

Originally posted by Cicada
tbh, i think thats bollocks..

if this thread hadn't existed would he have been stopped from having a planet? Probably not.

Is there any evidence at all that he used his influence to make sure his galaxy won? No

Has he shown he can keep his Planetarion playing and his multihunting duties seperate? Yes (we in F.E.A.R, didn't know he was a multihunter till the round had finished).

So, i think he should be allowed to have a real planet if he wants to. I do see a conflict of interest, but why is that a bad thing if he can be prefessional and keep them seperate?

I think banning him from playing for real is just another **** up for Pa Team responsing the demands of retards with no understanding for the job you do.

I discussed it WITH Parracida, and it was his decision also. We "tested the water" and there are still sharks.

[Cicada]

Originally posted by MrBrick
I discussed it WITH Parracida, and it was his decision also. We "tested the water" and there are still sharks.

well, you're both wrong then..

i for one woud much prefer to have multi hunters that are actively invloved in the game than let a bunch of illinformed attention seekers set back the rooting out of cheaters in the game AGAIN

[Parthos]

Originally posted by MrBrick
All a hunter can do is his or her "best".

Same with your Science analogy.

And those same scientists recuse themselves or experimental subjects when glaring conflicts of interest arise. eg, a research company would never allow a Pepsi employee to be in a focus group studying consumer attitudes on Pepsi's new product.

The same way a gaming company should never allow an ambitious, active player of that game to have the tools to delete other ambitious, active players.

No matter how well-intentioned or honest that player may be, as Germ said, there will always be subconscious conflicts.

Hell, I'm the biggest anti-cheating bitch out there, and it never crossed my mind to report my close friends who have had, for example, scan planets. You think that's not going to come into play on a multihunter level too?

[MrBrick]

Originally posted by Parthos
Hell, I'm the biggest anti-cheating bitch out there, and it never crossed my mind to report my close friends who have had, for example, scan planets. You think that's not going to come into play on a multihunter level too?

Oxymoron appears there. You are NOT anti cheating because you tolerate cheats, in this case, your friends.

Hunting requires neutrality, something which all of us have.
Even so, we make every effort to remove bias by working together
If for example, someone reported Darky or Catwoman to me, I would pass on the case to Mit or another team member.

I can cover the report up, as we share the same mail server, I can't cover up my admin actions, as the creators can see them.

At the end of the day, we can't abuse our positions without it being noticable. The bias debate is doomed to become a vicious cirlce, PA Team choose thoses they think are best for the job, and demand a level of professionalism and the most neutral stance possible. You may not think Parra is neutral, but he is. Poor Cyph.

[Razorback]

Cypher got reopend or ?

[Salt]

Closing one of his friends doesn't prove that he's not biased.

[MrBrick]

Originally posted by Salt
Closing one of his friends doesn't prove that he's not biased.

Nothing can, really, can it?

PA Team entrusts the Multihunter team with its job. We abuse that trust, then we are out on our arse.

Edit - See above post for bias cycle of argument, its an un-ending discussion based on everyone's individual perception.

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by Razorback
Cypher got reopend or ?

After a very long, long, rather longish discussion between all the hunters and spinner. Personally, I didn't believe his story, but it was decided that he would be reopened as a team decision.

[Oghy]

What suprises me is the fact that a multi-hunter is in fact a top50 player and gc of the #1 galaxy...
Thinking about the huge time-consuming effort it takes to have and maintain a top galaxy and planet.
How much time did he really have to Multi-Hunt correctly...

Wasnt this another reason that multihunters shouldnt play 'actively'? they should be more or less devoted to their jobs...

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Oghy
What suprises me is the fact that a multi-hunter is in fact a top50 player and gc of the #1 galaxy...
Thinking about the huge time-consuming effort it takes to have and maintain a top galaxy and planet.
How much time did he really have to Multi-Hunt correctly...

Running a top planet takes no time at all. If he was running an alliance then you would have a point.

[Salt]

Nothing can, really, can it?

Of course not, hence one of the many reasons multi-hunters shouldn't have planets.

The most amusing part of this thread is people accusing members of 'enemy alliances' of being against this just because Parra isn't in their alliance. If it was announced that Dreadnought was a multi-hunter these same people would suddenly find themselves against the idea of multi-hunters having planets. So rather than bitching about those other people bitching (lo Petru) why don't we try arguing the topic at hand?

[Cicada]

Originally posted by Oghy

Thinking about the huge time-consuming effort it takes to have and maintain a top galaxy and planet.

like what exactly...

whats so time comsuming about being GC, and launching a fleet every day or so..

that takes SOOO much time

you could win this game with 10mins true activity a day

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Petru
Germ's just crying into his beer because one of "his side" wasn't picked.

We don't need to be 'picked' to win.

First of all there clearly is a conflict of interest here, and Parra is brave for putting himself in a position where, should any sort of suspicious situation arise, he will become the scapegoat for it proven or not, and faith in his objection as a multihunter will be questioned. I personally would avoid the potential for such situations.

Secondly, the PAteam are volunteers (last I knew), they are volunteering their time for the good of this game. They're doing that because they enjoy the game. Therefore to ask them to forgo the enjoyment of playing the game for the sake of the game that they enjoy playing is rather harsh. It's a tough situation. If the hunters were paid to do their job then they would have to accept this, but they're not. If I were offered a position as a multihunter which meant I'd have to not play the game seriously I'd turn it down, because I enjoy playing the game. Having said that I would say experienced players 'know the ropes' and should they desire they are possibly the best choice for hunters. It's not uncommon in sports for retired players to become referees since they know what goes on, regardless of whether they bent the rules themselves as players or not.

Thirdly, the very nature of mutlihunting having to be a behind closed doors affair means that there will always be suspicion about their operation. I suspect this is because the administrative tools that currently exist for detection are rather poor, three years ago Spinner, Fudge and Vish never imagined that people would try so hard to cheat so much. Let us hope with this new generation PAX they have also written much more powerful tools, such that there is less scope for interpretation from the multihunters, and therefore less accusation of their potential for bias in carrying out their roles.

I know the mutlihunters work very hard, and it is a thoroughly thankless task. Keep it up guys.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by RealJames
snip

My thoughts exactly.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Salt
If it was announced that Dreadnought was a multi-hunter these same people would suddenly find themselves against the idea of multi-hunters having planets.

Bad example.

[Tempestuous]

Two things are really standing out to me here.

1 - Parra says he has told NO ONE that he was the secret multi hunter, so how did it get out?

2 - How does Parra not telling his friends/gal/associates that he is the multi hunter stop him from advising them on how to not be caught? If i knew how to avoid detection i could confer the information to others without them knowing how i knew it, when they ask 'how do you know?' you say 'I was just chatting to a mate in the PA team'.


P.S. MrBrick said parthos was not anti-cheating because she had ignored friends with scan planets, i assume therefore he believes Parra is not anti-cheating because he tried to let Fred farm him in r7. This makes Parra unsuitable for dealing with cheaters so i expect to hear you're sacking him.

[Salt]

No, it's a wonderful example because of how many people dislike him. Had Dreadnought been made a multi-hunter and done a spectacular job this round without even a hint of bias these same people that are supporting Parracida having a planet would be singing a different tune. Substitute Germ or whoever if you'd like as long as they're not one of your friends and your take on the situation would be quite different.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Tempestuous
Two things are really standing out to me here.

1 - Parra says he has told NO ONE that he was the secret multi hunter, so how did it get out?

2 - How does Parra not telling his friends/gal/associates that he is the multi hunter stop him from advising them on how to not be caught? If i knew how to avoid detection i could confer the information to others without them knowing how i knew it, when they ask 'how do you know?' you say 'I was just chatting to a mate in the PA team'.


P.S. MrBrick said parthos was not anti-cheating because she had ignored friends with scan planets, i assume therefore he believes Parra is not anti-cheating because he tried to let Fred farm him in r7. This makes Parra unsuitable for dealing with cheaters so i expect to hear you're sacking him.

I believe somewhere in the thread it was mentioned that the information leaked out by a conversation between the thread starter and a 'clueless' PA Team member. So your try to imply that Parra indeed did tell friends, stands on bad ground.

Pointing out that Parra is not capable of doing the job in round 9 and 9.5 (and hopefully onwards) because you claim he did something in round 7 is in my opinion a flawed argument as well. But not at all neglectable of course.

Though seeing that you guys start to use arguments like these to strengthen your discussion, evidently shows you are grasping for ammunition in your strive for eternal whining.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Petru
Germ's just crying into his beer because one of "his side" wasn't picked.

Where in gods name do you come up with this crap? I mean seriosly, do you sit around for hours on end thinking "hmm what convoluted silly way can I try to make Germ look disingenous" But even for you this one is just crap. Im jealous they didnt pick someone from my side? I'm not even sure what that means. Do you mean eclipse? WHy would I be jealous of that? You never cease to amaze me petru with your blind bias against me.

Originally posted by ParraCida
And Germania, I had no conflict of interests, I had no interests, my alliance was dead, my friends retired. It was pure coincidence that I landed in an active galaxy, so I agree that it could be argued that later I had 'interests' this was not an issue when I was hired so to speak.

Well you did have a conflict of interest. That is a matter of fact really. And I understand if you just fell into it. And if you wont be playing a real planet next round great. Like I said, Im not accusing you of ripping us off, I'm just dissapointed at a policy choice and the fact that it was hidden. I think its great that you are helping out in multihunting and thank you for your efforts. And Im very happy to see that this is rectified.

Originally posted by Ad0
snip

Wow, what a scary scary worldview. "conflicts of interest happen, so lets just not worry about them" Id hate to live in a country you goverened. In th real wolrd conflict of interests are avoided, outlawed, and monitered. So, im not sure what fantasy world you live in. Anyway parra already said he wont be playing a normal planet next round, which proves your point of who would want to multihunt without playing completely wrong. Your just jumping to parras def Ado, and the thing is hes really not the one being criticisized at all.

I AM NOT ATTACKING PARRA, HE DID NOTHING WRONG, MY BEEF IS WITH PA TEAM THAT MADE A POLICY CHOICE TO ALLOW HIM TO PLAY WHILE MULTIHUNTING AND CHOSE TO NOT DISCLOSE HIS POSITION

I hope that clears things up.

Originally posted by Cicada
wow...

well, in this thread, i agree with ad0, and i agree with Petru.

3 Rounds now, and Germania still can't get over his anti-titans feelings. I've known Parra for a long time, and i can't honestly think of anyone that would be able to do this job better..

Read above, look in a mirror, see your bias, shut up.

This has nothing to do with Parra. Ive not criticized him at all. This is about professionalism of PA team. Geez you and Petru are such hypocrites. Ive not attacked parra at all yet you come rushing in here to attack me. It is you not me that feel a need to bring completely irrelevent old grudges into this discussion..

"So, i think he should be allowed to have a real planet if he wants to. I do see a conflict of interest, but why is that a bad thing if he can be prefessional and keep them seperate? "

Because it has NOTHING to do with being professional. Look at governments around the world. Look at people in positions of trust. There are preventive measures guarding against conflicts of interest, not because they arent proffessionals, but because its a simply human nature that these kinds of things bias people.

Originally posted by Scouse
I dislike people making comparisons with other things in regard to PA, this is not one of those things, we arn't testing rats or any other nonsense. It's easy to find a rl situation to support your theory, so I'd recommend against anyone using them to back themselves up.

Im sorry you dont understand the comparison, that doesnt make it any less valid. It isnt nonsense, its clearly applicable. Your reccomendation is bollacks. If youd like to try and prove exactly how I was wrong in my comparison, feel free to argue it, but to come here and say "you are wrong because all comparisons are wrong" is a bit silly no?

Originally posted by Scouse

In round 4, when Moridin was a multihunter, and part of the side fighting me, I was against him being a multihunter, so I understand people's reactions to this. However, Parra doesn't have an alliance, despite a lot of people thinking he's LDK. The people closest to him don't play seriously, don't have big planets, or alliances, and have no reason to cheat, so suggesting he helped them to do so is out of order. If Titans were still alive and Parra was a multihunter you'd have a right to complain, but it's not.


Here I would say how much of a good appointment he was, and how well he did his job, but that would seem like I was defending him, when he has nothing to defend. Petru has a point, if the multihunter was, for example, Hicks, a retired ex-Fury person, who was in the top gal for rd 9.5*, I think the complaining faces would be different and the opinion of certain people in this thread would be completely reversed.

Unlike you scouse, not everyone switches thier opinions based on thier friends (read above moridin to parra) If it were hicks I would have the exact same opinion. I cant believe you are bringing 'sides' into this. As you said parra doesnt have a side. This has nothing to do with allainces, why are you people so incapable of not seeing everything through an 'us vs them' filter.

If the mutihunter was Hicks my opinion would be absolutely 100% the same. I thank parra for his work. I think its great to hae an enthusiastic multihunter. I never attacked parra, this has nothing to do with him. THe fact that this debate goes back to moridin should very clearly prove that this isnt about parra, or titans, or me or alliances.

[K-W]

Originally posted by WipeOut
Pointing out that Parra is not capable of doing the job in round 9 and 9.5 (and hopefully onwards) because you claim he did something in round 7 is in my opinion a flawed argument as well. But not at all neglectable of course.

lol, point, head, over

WipeOut, it is a flawed argument, just as MrBricks similar argument was flawed. That was Temp's point. He wasnt using that argument against parra, he was using it as an example of bad logic.

Parra, like parthos, and like pretty much everyone has either cheated in the past, or not reported cheating they saw. It doesnt make those people any less anti-cheating.

That said, the fact that parra has been involved with cheating in the past isnt irrellevent, but I dont think tempy is arguing that involvement in cheating disqualfiies someone from multihunting.

[MrBrick]

Something just occurred to me, and its of very little relevance, but...

We have never made it a secret that the Hunter's identity was a secret.

Nobody pointed it out then, was there a reason for this

[K-W]

Originally posted by MrBrick
Something just occurred to me, and its of very little relevance, but...

We have never made it a secret that the Hunter's identity was a secret.

Nobody pointed it out then, was there a reason for this

Well I dont read most PA crew threads myself.

But your answer is, people assumed you were sticking to your policy that multihunters could not play real planets. Thus we trusted that the secret hunter was not playing a planet and had no reason to complain.

[A2]

Originally posted by Tempestuous
1 - Parra says he has told NO ONE that he was the secret multi hunter, so how did it get out?

Originally posted by Tempestuous (although this post mysteriously dissapeared while I was posting this)
Show me where it says that

How have you made it this far into the thread without reading the 2nd paragraph of the very first post?

I originally intended this post to be somewhat speculative, not knowing for sure if ParraCida was infact the multihunter. My only 'evidence' was from a pateam member who didn't seem 100% sure of what (s)he was saying. Then, today I recieved independant assurance from a second pateam member.

[Tempestuous]

Originally posted by A2
How have you made it this far into the thread without reading the 2nd paragraph of the very first post?

I read the start last night, how did the pa team manage to get so confused as to leak his identity then?

P.S. There's nothing mysterious about the post dissapearing, it's called the delete function; some of us believe in rectifying their mistakes 'hohoho'. In my post i'd let wipeout off far too easily, i was thinking of a better way to explain what a totally idiotic post he'd made.

[ParraCida]

One thing I don't quite understand however, since it never was a secret that my identity was a secret, so then why suddenly all the fuss now? Should it have not been an issue the second I closed my first planet?

Anyway, since I think its pretty clear now that nobody actually thinks I exploited my position (which is what I feared people would think) I'm just thankfull that its just the issue of secrecy and me having a planet. As said, I won't have a planet next round, and I view the secrecy something that started out as a necessity and was continued longer then it should have for selfish reasons.

I had already discussed this issue with Mit/Mrbrick and Spinner during Round 9.5, that the hidden identity was no longer needed, but I choose to keep it and make a clean cut when the round ended, perhaps that was mistaken, but I don't feel that the endresult had to suffer under that mistake.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Tempestuous
Show me where it says that, show me where i made the implication.

1 - Parra says he has told NO ONE that he was the secret multi hunter, so how did it get out?

Pointing out that he merely says not to have told anybody, could imply that you mean the exact opposite to be the truth. But maybe I misunderstood, and have drawn false conclusions. In that case, my apoligies.

I should read better, probably, but asking a question which was answered before in this thread doesn't exactly show you're a supurb reader yourself.

Claiming that because it's in his past it doesnt count is one of the most ridiculous things ive heard on this thread. Would you let a convicted burglar house sit whilst you're on holiday as long as it was a few yrs ago he did it?

I did not say it does not count, nor did I say you cannot take it into consideration, I am merely pointing out that the relevance, is somewhat low. Apart from that, you seem to think that offering your roids to a friend in an alliance, near the end of a round, is something which makes you incapable of fairness for eternity. Where I am extremely against such behaviour myself, I do think you perhaps overreact a bit.

As for our arguements, merely because you cant understand them doesnt mean they're poor, it just shows you're limited.

I will personally not fall into the liars of insult, as I think there is no need for that at all in a discussion.

Yes, I do think you guys are posting bollox. Facts are:

- Parra did a good job.
- MrBrick apoligized on behalf of PA Team.

What else is there to whine about?

[Tempestuous]

Originally posted by ParraCida
One thing I don't quite understand however, since it never was a secret that my identity was a secret, so then why suddenly all the fuss now? Should it have not been an issue the second I closed my first planet?

Anyway, since I think its pretty clear now that nobody actually thinks I exploited my position (which is what I feared people would think) I'm just thankfull that its just the issue of secrecy and me having a planet. As said, I won't have a planet next round, and I view the secrecy something that started out as a necessity and was continued longer then it should have for selfish reasons.

I had already discussed this issue with Mit/Mrbrick and Spinner during Round 9.5, that the hidden identity was no longer needed, but I choose to keep it and make a clean cut when the round ended, perhaps that was mistaken, but I don't feel that the endresult had to suffer under that mistake.

We havent seen evidence showing either way whether you abused or didnt abuse your position so don't get too comfy, id be impressed if you treat all players as equal, but it'd make you sub-human to not believe your close friends over others.

[Tempestuous]

Originally posted by WipeOut
Pointing out that he merely says not to have told anybody, could imply that you mean the exact opposite to be the truth. But maybe I misunderstood, and have drawn false conclusions. In that case, my apoligies.

You fell into the trap, you came up with that chain of thought all by yourself, and that is the same concept which makes others believe this situation is intollerable.

[K-W]

Originally posted by ParraCida
One thing I don't quite understand however, since it never was a secret that my identity was a secret, so then why suddenly all the fuss now? Should it have not been an issue the second I closed my first planet?

Anyway, since I think its pretty clear now that nobody actually thinks I exploited my position (which is what I feared people would think) I'm just thankfull that its just the issue of secrecy and me having a planet. As said, I won't have a planet next round, and I view the secrecy something that started out as a necessity and was continued longer then it should have for selfish reasons.

I had already discussed this issue with Mit/Mrbrick and Spinner during Round 9.5, that the hidden identity was no longer needed, but I choose to keep it and make a clean cut when the round ended, perhaps that was mistaken, but I don't feel that the endresult had to suffer under that mistake.

The secrecy wasnt a huge issue because we just assumed the secret hunter wasnt playing a planet I think. Either that or no one noticed.

Some people have hinted at places where you might have been a little biased or pointed out cicumstantial evidence of places you could have influenced things, but thats all.

But overall I think you are now on the same page as everyone else on this issue, and it seems pretty settled.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by K-W
Unlike you scouse, not everyone switches thier opinions based on thier friends

Well that's an improvement on "Are you stupid?".



How many threads will it take of you pretty much arguing with every single person in it until you realise that you might occasionally be wrong?

[Salt]

Originally posted by ParraCida
One thing I don't quite understand however, since it never was a secret that my identity was a secret, so then why suddenly all the fuss now? Should it have not been an issue the second I closed my first planet?

Since there was never any public notice made that the policy had been reversed most of us assumed PA Team was still playing by their own announced rules and that the secret multihunter didn't have a planet. It 'should' have been an issue the second you closed your first planet but since PATeam chose to act in a shady manner no one knew any better.