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Unread 14 Dec 2007, 14:35   #51
eki
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Re: Round 25: stats

i think cath is way underbalanced, otherwise races are pretty well balanced imo. Cath needs to have some bonus for the pain of getting attacked like 10 times more than any other race (in hope of free roids)

anyway, this round's stats were certainly ok compared to what i have heard of the previous stats.
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Unread 15 Dec 2007, 13:02   #52
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowlsey
I think cathaar need at least one more kill ship, preferably two. Perhaps having it like Zik, One EMP & One KILL type per attack fleet...

Completely agree. Something needs to be done to fix cath and to get more ppl to choose etd. The underpopulation of these is the biggest problem this round imo.
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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 13:58   #53
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Re: Round 25: stats

had a dream of exp thing that would be desirable , push a little further you could make you reaeach by afecting to different mission .

only a simple xp would be nice , othre game is adding special attack to paladin , goes whit the flow .

so that allaince that attack 3-4 wave wouldnt get exp , make it so it goes negative (x-y/2)Att so exp stay low ,

would allow o get bak quickly after fleet catch or oversleep.



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attacking same target or a bash target will dimiish exp ,
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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 15:39   #54
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Re: Round 25: stats

?
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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 18:37   #55
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbud2
so that allaince that attack 3-4 wave wouldnt get exp , make it so it goes negative (x-y/2)Att so exp stay low ,

attacking same target or a bash target will dimiish exp ,
I dont see what changing xp has to do with ths ship stats. And if alliances were not able to launch attacks in waves because they would get negative xp then they would probably never get through on other alliances.
negative xp for attacking a target a particular value under yours to prevent bashing might be a good idea tho - but that is ofc the point of the bash limit

on the ship stats I agree that cath need some kind of kill ship so they are not a free roid's target. the other alternative is more effective emping but if they were able to emp more effectively then they would become too good at attacking... leaving new kill ship(s) as the only option.
Or else perhaps some kind of ship exchange whereby gal mates can leave one of their fleets at another planet but I imagine that this would lead to the top planets having their whole gal's fleets sitting at their planet to prevent attacks! so I am not sure how it could work
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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 18:48   #56
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Re: Round 25: stats

As you read more of his posts you'll learn to simply laugh at them, then ignore them.
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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 18:51   #57
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Re: Round 25: stats

i've always said that vbulletin needs a /ignore feature


edit: oooh it does, win!

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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 20:33   #58
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Re: Round 25: stats

Haha. That's pretty good.
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Unread 16 Dec 2007, 22:57   #59
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Re: Round 25: stats

or admin .... shame it dont top u from seing them or does it??

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Unread 17 Dec 2007, 10:18   #60
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Haha. That's pretty good.

thank you so much
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Unread 17 Dec 2007, 15:15   #61
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
I dont see what changing xp has to do with ths ship stats. And if alliances were not able to launch attacks in waves because they would get negative xp then they would probably never get through on other alliances.
negative xp for attacking a target a particular value under yours to prevent bashing might be a good idea tho - but that is ofc the point of the bash limit

on the ship stats I agree that cath need some kind of kill ship so they are not a free roid's target. the other alternative is more effective emping but if they were able to emp more effectively then they would become too good at attacking... leaving new kill ship(s) as the only option.
Or else perhaps some kind of ship exchange whereby gal mates can leave one of their fleets at another planet but I imagine that this would lead to the top planets having their whole gal's fleets sitting at their planet to prevent attacks! so I am not sure how it could work

was more on B..ion side , so you could have some ex: beetle that would have a emp level of 150% , maybe unlock a steal if the emp whole fleet and got extra. would give advantage to player that got to attack alot , who enter batlle . the way i see it if you pussh the experience (real one) we could nearly start same race than whit time ship would come , if we attack , defend , out number ... still alot to do on that , cathar is hard to implement ...
stil i liked the idear of knowig that i had some bitchess in theyr that folowed since the begining , drink in theyr memorie.....

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Unread 19 Dec 2007, 14:06   #62
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Re: Round 25: stats

i think the consensus here is that there needs to either be an emp-critical-failure put in place (even if it's something low like 10%), cath needs more kill ships, cath emp needs to be way more efficient (beware not to overpower) or cath needs to be removed as a race in its own right (and emp abilities are spread between everyone). i'd be surprised if anyone would not fit in one of those groups.
re: combat balancing solutions, is anyone listening? who's doing stats these days?
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Unread 19 Dec 2007, 14:24   #63
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Blue Moon-
i think the consensus here is that there needs to either be an emp-critical-failure put in place (even if it's something low like 10%), cath needs more kill ships, cath emp needs to be way more efficient (beware not to overpower) or cath needs to be removed as a race in its own right (and emp abilities are spread between everyone). i'd be surprised if anyone would not fit in one of those groups.
re: combat balancing solutions, is anyone listening? who's doing stats these days?
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Unread 19 Dec 2007, 18:26   #64
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Re: Round 25: stats

any chance of changing the number of races to 4 or 6, number of attack fleets in each class, classes used and unused, apc and dpc and cost values, spread of AFs over classes, emp crit, number of total ships, etc? It'd make it easier to balance me thinks?
You know how to contact me if you want an impartial hand but i'd probably prefer to do it outside of a beta environment if you do want a hand tbh. -tux
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Unread 19 Dec 2007, 18:44   #65
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Re: Round 25: stats

I definately want to see 5 races with 5 classes (or, 6 classes with one class that doesn't use pods).
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Unread 20 Dec 2007, 16:42   #66
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Re: Round 25: stats

Appoco give me the starcruiser back
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Unread 21 Dec 2007, 03:21   #67
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Re: Round 25: stats

the t1/t2/t3 stats has been too much for parttime dcs and noobs wanting to get stuck into the game as u cant as easily calc attacks / send defence fleets without fully calcing for losses using bcalcs, whereas u could get a feel for wat was needed before. However i do feel the triple targeting has helped with balancing the ter/xan/zik races - jus wish i had more time to hang around staring at stats to get a hang of em to help out my dcs more.

As for races: generally each round it seems that whichever race is small in number falls behind and their targets runs ahead - makes sense based on each race being weak to 1/2 other races
- how about jus make it so that races can build build only one class of pod ships but any other type of ship and reduce the amount of ships u can make overall to simplify the balancing act? - maybe not such a brilliant idea but im just brainstorming
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Unread 21 Dec 2007, 18:17   #68
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Re: Round 25: stats

i would like to see a planet bashing penalty introduced to make people atk higher ranked planets. for example, if you hit a person under your value you would XP points, because lets face it, you aint gaining any game experiance by bashing the smaller guys. this follows from one night of incoming i saw in gal status when a 3mil guys was hitting a 700k planet, this surely cant be allowed.
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Unread 22 Dec 2007, 01:25   #69
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Re: Round 25: stats

whats the difference between a 3M value planet hitting a 700k value planet and 8 2M value planets hitting a 4M value planet?
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Unread 22 Dec 2007, 03:50   #70
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Re: Round 25: stats

bring back some emp anti-fi for alliance eta, xan fi and def agaisnt it this round was basically kamikaze missions.

the multi-targetting did work out a bit betetr then i thought it would after bringing it back, but it did favour certain races, such as xan. It also makes top planets almost invulnerable with the right fleet makeup, unlesss you do a massive teamup on them in a single wave.

Cath and Etd obviously got the worst end of the stats this round, with only a handful in the t100. Xan emp resistance was far too high, as was ter, it took a buttload of cath ships to stun any ter, mix that with their high armour and ter bs had the best fleet all round. And not 1 but 2 ter ships firign before xan is ridiculous,m xan are supposed to have the initative advantage, not terran.
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Unread 22 Dec 2007, 07:30   #71
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Re: Round 25: stats

am a long time PA player and a dedicated cath player. I have played cath for 5 straight rnds, not including rnd 24. Obviously my input here isn't totally up to date as I haven't played with the multi-targeting yet. I play cath for a few reasons mainly for the high initiative in combat. In previous experience with cath I have come to learn one major thing. Cath is very reliant on certain ship production and lack of other (ie. spiders). This leaves holes in defence and requires an active BP or ally to cover other incomming. The major problem with them every round is that nobody is afraid to attack you or defend against you because they only get frozen and therefor have no ship losses. Cath shouldn't be dropped from the game as they are valuable in defence with there high initiative. I firmly believe that all cath really lacks is the ability to scare off possible defenders or attackers. If universal game balance is what is wanted, it will never happen. The best option for this is in my opinion Less ships for each race with multi-targeting. This way when building specialized fleets no matter what the race you don't have to worry about not having defence home cause they are in your attack fleet. For cath the problem isn't with the EMP/Kill. Emp works good, as cloak for Xan and steal for Zik. Rather then changing the way they do combat or kill, maybe just change the way they are scanned or give them another option for EMP ships to jam incomming scans or giving false information to the exact number of ships/class. This way people would be more hesitent on defending them and not just a free defend or attack because they don't loose ships. Why bother recalling even if your outnumbered when there is no losses. Each race has it's intimidation factor. Xan are cloaked so without FA and AUS random people are hesident to defend agaist them. Zik steal, which is very intimidating to an attacker because looses go way to high and you beef up another planet. However, cath and there EMP doesn't scare anyone because we all know either a big FR attack fleet or a small CR fleet. So even if you don't have scans of the incomming attack fleet on your gal you can still look at the numbers and guess what def is needed without even talking to the defending planet. And since you only get frozen who cares launch defence and let it go. Maybe if EMP had a stronger range like ships stunned in combat by EMP after combat would take damage from the EMP. So if your cath fleet freezes all the ships after combat the defending fleet would loose a percentage of there fleet depending on percent of EMP'd ships. This could be chalked up to the EMP causing damage to ship systems. Might make people think twice about just attacking cath or defending cath without any scans just because they arn't goin to loose anything.

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Unread 23 Dec 2007, 00:43   #72
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Re: Round 25: stats

First off: I think multi-targetting brought a lot of combat to the game, but it does kinda annoy with losses in combat. Single targetting makes that better, but also leads to less balance, thus keep the multi-targetting.

As to races, I think that we've somewhat gone away from what the races really meant. We still have the general basics, but otherwise there is too much mixing. IMO:

Terrans are mostly what they should be at the moment. Heavy hitting, Heavy armored, but they're getting too quick on the Init. Maybe give them heavier armor, a better ratio for res/armour, and kick the init back up to where it belongs, mainly after the lighter ships. Sure, they may get hit first, but with a better ratio for res/armour it becomes very feasable.

Cath needs to be returned to EMP only. Init stays low, where it's at, and make them more efficient in their EMP power. Their low ETA roid fleet should be returned to CO, with 2 CO ships that target FI-DE classes, and than their high ETA fleet should contain 2 CR that target FR - BS, and 2 BS that target FI-FR. Basically give them mobile PDS against the lighter craft. They are a peaceful race, and should be given the ability to heavily defend themselves.

Xan needs to be returned to the low init, weak armor, weak power, low cost. Give them nothing but FI/CO/FR classes. FI/FR being their roiding fleets. FI/CO ships should be able to cover every class but CR/BS. 2 FR class ships, 1 with T1 CR, 1 with T1 BS, than T2 FR and T2 DE. This gives xans the ability to be light and quick, like they're meant to be, but it gives them the weakness against larger ships that should come naturally. Splitting the CR/BS targetting between 2 ships means that they can't mass 1 high class ship to cover both, like with Specs this round (I actually had nothing more than FI/CO and specs for the first 2/3 the round)

Zik needs to be like terran, but with stealing. Now I realize the problem caused by not killing off the stealing ships encouraging ship farming, but I believe the survival rate for zik needs to be increased. With just 1 bad attack/def a zik can essentially be turned into another race (i.e. losing all thieves when stealing terran DE suddenly leaves them hugely open to DE attacks) a higher survival rate only helps this issue, not really solving it. Unfortunatly the only real sollution to this is to let stealing ships survive the encounter, which, unless there is a lot of moniteringi n place, really isn't an option

On a side note, I think that PDS should be brough back, in the form of a construction. Allow production of up to 250 structures total, and enable various classes of PDS to be built via construction. This means that PDS can be a useful addition to fleets, it won't enable people to porcupine up with mass PDS, and it can be killed with SK's and co-ops. Also, if people mass PDS, and than get mass inc's, they can still run their fleets and not have huge losses from PDS dieing (unless ofc SK's are involved, but even than, it's not a huge loss to the planet.) This also allows little guys to have a better chance, as losses from PDS won't be worth their small roidcount, but on larger planets, it really has no effect whatsoever. Each PDS construction would basically be a gun platform with various number of gun turrets depending on targetting class. Even if someone went 250 of 1 PDS type (not likely) it only protects them fairly well from 1 type, and co-ops or SK's of any other ship type can easily wipe them out. They should all be kill structures, save for cath which would again be EMP.

Lastly I think cathaar should be given 95% of their own fleets loss salvage. It seems only fair since they can't kill for salvage. Simply assume that in lacking the desire to technologically advance their weapons, they advanced their salvage methods.
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Unread 23 Dec 2007, 00:46   #73
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Re: Round 25: stats

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Unread 23 Dec 2007, 12:06   #74
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider2k
On a side note, I think that PDS should be brough back, in the form of a construction. ... etc
I really like this idea, it has the add benefit that it makes SK's worth having, at the moment they seem a little pointless unless involved in an alliance war when reducing the enemy planets capabilities will help the alliance overall. On just normal attacks all they really do is draw in extra defense (or if U R zik they might cause the enemys fleet to stay home to try to defend therefore allowing steals)
PDS as it was was too easy to kill when the defender is forced to run, as almost everyone is forced too at some point pds as it was would not be too helpful. therefore it is only going to be useful if it is not all killed the first time someone has to run his whole fleet.
For cathaar it will give them something that will kill ships, and therefore add abit of deterrance that they atm totally lack... and as Strider2k says they could move to being entirely emp ships.

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Unread 23 Dec 2007, 13:42   #75
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider2k
Terrans are mostly what they should be at the moment. Heavy hitting, Heavy armored, but they're getting too quick on the Init. Maybe give them heavier armor, a better ratio for res/armour, and kick the init back up to where it belongs, mainly after the lighter ships. Sure, they may get hit first, but with a better ratio for res/armour it becomes very feasable.
I would mainly focus at improving the res/armor ratio. A Zik that steals Terrans ships can not be stunned any more. So if we want to improve res/armor ratio, make the Terran ships slightly cheaper and reduce damage and emp resistance accordingly.

Quote:
Cath needs to be returned to EMP only.
I wouldn't do this without giving them some means to scare off attackers.

Quote:
Xan needs to be returned to the low init, weak armor, weak power, low cost. Give them nothing but FI/CO/FR classes. FI/FR being their roiding fleets. FI/CO ships should be able to cover every class but CR/BS. 2 FR class ships, 1 with T1 CR, 1 with T1 BS, than T2 FR and T2 DE. This gives xans the ability to be light and quick, like they're meant to be, but it gives them the weakness against larger ships that should come naturally. Splitting the CR/BS targetting between 2 ships means that they can't mass 1 high class ship to cover both, like with Specs this round (I actually had nothing more than FI/CO and specs for the first 2/3 the round)
I like this. Cathaar would profit as they will no longer need to stun the Spectres.

Quote:
Zik needs to be like terran, but with stealing. Now I realize the problem caused by not killing off the stealing ships encouraging ship farming, but I believe the survival rate for zik needs to be increased. With just 1 bad attack/def a zik can essentially be turned into another race (i.e. losing all thieves when stealing terran DE suddenly leaves them hugely open to DE attacks) a higher survival rate only helps this issue, not really solving it. Unfortunatly the only real sollution to this is to let stealing ships survive the encounter, which, unless there is a lot of moniteringi n place, really isn't an option
The loss of the ships you steal with is an important characteristic of the Zik. We shouldn't make zikonians too easy to play. They were strong this round, so there is some room to tweak the zikonian ship damage down a bit. That can increase their survival rate.

Quote:
On a side note, I think that PDS should be brough back, in the form of a construction. Allow production of up to 250 structures total, and enable various classes of PDS to be built via construction. This means that PDS can be a useful addition to fleets, it won't enable people to porcupine up with mass PDS, and it can be killed with SK's and co-ops. Also, if people mass PDS, and than get mass inc's, they can still run their fleets and not have huge losses from PDS dieing (unless ofc SK's are involved, but even than, it's not a huge loss to the planet.) This also allows little guys to have a better chance, as losses from PDS won't be worth their small roidcount, but on larger planets, it really has no effect whatsoever. Each PDS construction would basically be a gun platform with various number of gun turrets depending on targetting class. Even if someone went 250 of 1 PDS type (not likely) it only protects them fairly well from 1 type, and co-ops or SK's of any other ship type can easily wipe them out. They should all be kill structures, save for cath which would again be EMP.
I'm not totally against this:
- PDS should fire before structure killers so taking structure killers along on some small planet would be pointless
- 250 constructions would promote distorter whoring
- this could be an option to give Cath and Etd a means of killing something in addition to their stun ships

Quote:
Lastly I think cathaar should be given 95% of their own fleets loss salvage. It seems only fair since they can't kill for salvage. Simply assume that in lacking the desire to technologically advance their weapons, they advanced their salvage methods.
No more calcing your defence? Nah. This game should have some risks incorporated. That's part of the fun.
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Unread 23 Dec 2007, 23:07   #76
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyr
whats the difference between a 3M value planet hitting a 700k value planet and 8 2M value planets hitting a 4M value planet?
not much difference from the 'bashing' point of view - i think both thoe types of situation should lose xp (tho i think in both those cases the difference is too big for the atack to be allowed anyways (i think the planet being attacked would appear as orange to the attacker in both cases)
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 09:39   #77
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Re: Round 25: stats

not if the planet has an immense amount of xp meaning he is higher than 60% of your score... does that then make him an ok target?
quote from manual "A planet with it's "Value" section in orange is too small for you to attack, as it's lower than both 40% of your value AND 60% of your score."
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 11:59   #78
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Re: Round 25: stats

Don't **** up the bash limit as some people in this thread are suggesting. It's bad for everyone.
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 13:43   #79
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Re: Round 25: stats

When thinking about my suggestion to make Etd more colorfull I came up with the idea to give Etd a bunch of Ter/Cat/Xan/Zik ships rather than their own designs. That means that there will be less different ship designs flying around, which can help make the game less complex. The Etd fleet could look like this:

Bomber Corvette Fr De - Cloak
Cutlass Corvette Fi - - Steal
Black Widow Frigate Co Fi - Emp
Spectre Destroyer Bs Cr - Cloak
Syren Cruiser De Fr - Norm
Roach Cruiser Fr De - Emp
Dragon Battleship Cr Bs - Norm
Privateer Corvette Ro - - Pod
Hornet Cruiser Ro - - Pod
Haunt Destroyer St - - Struc
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 16:09   #80
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Re: Round 25: stats

That's actually kinda interesting Gerbie. Makes doing the stats a hell of a lot easier too
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 19:13   #81
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
When thinking about my suggestion to make Etd more colorfull I came up with the idea to give Etd a bunch of Ter/Cat/Xan/Zik ships rather than their own designs. That means that there will be less different ship designs flying around, which can help make the game less complex. The Etd fleet could look like this:

Bomber Corvette Fr De - Cloak
Cutlass Corvette Fi - - Steal
Black Widow Frigate Co Fi - Emp
Spectre Destroyer Bs Cr - Cloak
Syren Cruiser De Fr - Norm
Roach Cruiser Fr De - Emp
Dragon Battleship Cr Bs - Norm
Privateer Corvette Ro - - Pod
Hornet Cruiser Ro - - Pod
Haunt Destroyer St - - Struc
I have to say in principle at least I like this idea a lot.
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 19:21   #82
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Re: Round 25: stats

The idea is nice, but it doesn't solve the problem of having 5 races.
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 21:02   #83
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Re: Round 25: stats

It just means that they'll either be insanely good or insanely bad. Who chooses which ships they get?
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Unread 24 Dec 2007, 21:17   #84
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It just means that they'll either be insanely good or insanely bad. Who chooses which ships they get?
That would be Appocomaster.
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Unread 25 Dec 2007, 01:18   #85
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Re: Round 25: stats

Interesting idea, though i still think the name should be changed to show these are imitations (and a tiny alteration in stats here and there).
Bomber = Bombardier
Cutlass = Dagger
...
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Unread 25 Dec 2007, 16:42   #86
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Re: Round 25: stats

it's not a good idea because the real issue with the stats is that cathaar still won't work. drop cathaar and perhaps make etd a mix of cath + 1 kill, 1 cloak, 1 steal. of course the REAL issue is that all these stats are too linear and there should probably just be 1 race with many variating options for fleets but hey...
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Unread 25 Dec 2007, 17:16   #87
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Re: Round 25: stats

We've been saying that for years though jer, and I don't see it happening :/
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 02:08   #88
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I have to say in principle at least I like this idea a lot.
In some ways yes, but theres always the temptation to give the 'best' ships, and also it means that instead of complementing other race attack fleets, you're copying them (even with the occasional mix and match for pod fleets).

It's a nice idea, but in the quoted example (for example) your Co fleet is nothing compared to the Zik Co fleet, and both Cruiser ships target Fr and De (which is pretty stupid, as probably almost half of the Cr/Bs ships also hit Cr)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jer
of course the REAL issue is that all these stats are too linear and there should probably just be 1 race with many variating options for fleets but hey...
recoding the tech tree to incorporate something like this is always something I'd love, but without what would have to be a much larger tech tree to allow for more flexibility in other areas, it's been moved down the list of things such as the passport system and the quest system and the combat engine recode. Depending on coding time it might well happen in 2008 though.
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 14:19   #89
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
recoding the tech tree to incorporate something like this is always something I'd love, but without what would have to be a much larger tech tree to allow for more flexibility in other areas, it's been moved down the list of things such as the passport system and the quest system and the combat engine recode. Depending on coding time it might well happen in 2008 though.
So, let's approach this from the game development point of view. You want to keep and attract players, as such you need an interesting game. From that point of view the priority list is easily created:

1. Core Functionality
2. Gimmicks

The passport system is just a gimmick. Nothing else. It does not add anything to the gameplay experience. The quest-system is done as it seems, otherwise you would not have announced it as implemented. What does combat engine recode mean? To me that sounds more like a gimmick, considering that we do have multi-targetting, stealing, emp and normal killing. Granted, there seem to be one or two bugs left, but one or two bugs do not (necessarily) justify a complete recode. Consequently, the only reasonable feature to implement next would be the tech-tree and as such eliminating the mass of linear ships.
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 14:24   #90
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
So, let's approach this from the game development point of view. You want to keep and attract players, as such you need an interesting game. From that point of view the priority list is easily created:

1. Core Functionality
2. Gimmicks

The passport system is just a gimmick. Nothing else. It does not add anything to the gameplay experience. The quest-system is done as it seems, otherwise you would not have announced it as implemented. What does combat engine recode mean? To me that sounds more like a gimmick, considering that we do have multi-targetting, stealing, emp and normal killing. Granted, there seem to be one or two bugs left, but one or two bugs do not (necessarily) justify a complete recode. Consequently, the only reasonable feature to implement next would be the tech-tree and as such eliminating the mass of linear ships.
We have a long-standing disagreement over this, and have done for a good year now - in fact, ever since you refused to do any work coding the game because we wanted to do a passport system before recoding the whole game in php.
I don't see that a stats thread is the best place to argue about the purpose or usefulness of a passport system.
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 18:33   #91
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Re: Round 25: stats

You're right, it seems appropriate to split this line of conversation off to another topic.
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 19:12   #92
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
In some ways yes, but theres always the temptation to give the 'best' ships, and also it means that instead of complementing other race attack fleets, you're copying them (even with the occasional mix and match for pod fleets).

It's a nice idea, but in the quoted example (for example) your Co fleet is nothing compared to the Zik Co fleet, and both Cruiser ships target Fr and De (which is pretty stupid, as probably almost half of the Cr/Bs ships also hit Cr)
Copying isn't bad if selective copying gives something new that’s better than what you had before.
I didn’t use the Cutter because it’s not a steal ship. The Bombers are good flak when attacking a Cathaar and their cloak opens up the option of faking. The Bomber is a good ship eventhough in the way the fleets are currently set up I have to admit it’s not a great attack combination.
For the Cr fleet I had a similar problem: there’s not a lot of Cr to pick from after you scrap the Etd Cr. The only alternative is the Tarantula, which again is not a typical Cathaar ship because it doesn’t freeze. Syren/Tara/Hornet would be the alternative.
Another alternative would be to give Etd Fi and/or Bs pods. That would open up more different options.
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 21:58   #93
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
We have a long-standing disagreement over this, and have done for a good year now - in fact, ever since you refused to do any work coding the game because we wanted to do a passport system before recoding the whole game in php.
I don't see that a stats thread is the best place to argue about the purpose or usefulness of a passport system.
Fully agreed, and I do also think that there is nothing left to discuss there, it's all been said. As such, sorry to bring this up again

So far I'd then prefer ETD to have a mix of TER/CAT/XAN/ZIK ships.
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Unread 28 Dec 2007, 22:41   #94
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Re: Round 25: stats

Again I'll mention that a 6th race has been suggested, something that I've championed as a replacement for Cath/Etd. A summary is set out by me here, with the link to the thread itself here (but heavily amended from the first post).
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Unread 29 Dec 2007, 10:17   #95
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Re: Round 25: stats

I don't like muliti targeting. The argument for implementing it was to make it easier for newcomers to not waste their res on a wrong ship type and have nothing worth while to defend with? If the reason was to help newcomers I think it backfired by making the game even harder to understand. Since we don't get to many new players anyway it probably isn't a big deal either way.

I like to play for value. Finding targets you can hit for little or no loss made my cat bash this round or team up in a way to make sure that the target ran.
The cat bashing route has been mentioned before as a way to "kill" of cat from the game and not all players have the luxury of being in allies that have enough players to do decent team ups.

The thing that really bugged me about multi targeting though was that I as a zik couldn't fake as good as previous rounds. Take Ter as an example. Faking FR as DE on Ter to land and maybe even steal some DE was not an option most times because of multi targeting. Since Wyvern targets FR before DE I'd be even worse off with FR then with DE. In previous rounds fakes like this usually meant that the target ran all ships and gave you free roids or ran all ships except the ones he thought he needed for defense. That then resulted in free roids or a nice addition of new stolen ships.

The example of Xans only needing their FI + spectres for more then half the round has been mentioned as well.
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Unread 29 Dec 2007, 10:24   #96
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Re: Round 25: stats

Yeah well, xan were a bit overpowered last round something which will hopefully be changed a bit this round.

Multitargetting simply means you have to be willing to take some losses, my main problem is how immensely hard it is to land an attack late on if your high on value, seeing as a single halfdecent def fleet will have to make you pull due to no xp. And one deffleet is particularily hard to get.
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Unread 8 Jan 2008, 10:36   #97
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
As you read more of his posts you'll learn to simply laugh at them, then ignore them.
I laugh at all of you ;/ Saves time tbfh.

Also, the stats pretty much suck all around, so it seems to me it's a mather of choosing the race that sucks the least.

And no, I'm not playing, just popping in to see what's going on. Got a bit nostalgic after the Dragons sauna/poker meet.
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Unread 8 Jan 2008, 11:18   #98
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Re: Round 25: stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
I laugh at all of you ;/ Saves time tbfh.

Also, the stats pretty much suck all around, so it seems to me it's a mather of choosing the race that sucks the least.

And no, I'm not playing, just popping in to see what's going on. Got a bit nostalgic after the Dragons sauna/poker meet.
u get nostalgic each time i talk pa with u
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Unread 8 Jan 2008, 11:29   #99
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Re: Round 25: stats

Hi Tzu.
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Unread 8 Jan 2008, 12:34   #100
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Re: Round 25: stats

Oh god, reading the suggestions put forth in this thread makes me want to cry... Good god what morons are abound these days...

I second Heartless that most of PA these days is useless gimmicks which complicate the game without adding anything to it. Also, I agree with jerome about abolishing races. The EMP "critical failure" almost seems like an interesting idea, but it would require that EMP ress.eff. would be dropped quite a lot, and in essence the same result could be had with conventional means.

And the person who suggested PDS be brought back needs to be shot. If you morons haven't figured out the arguments against it by now, you need to check yourself into a home for the retarded tbfh.
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