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15 Aug 2003, 23:48
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#51
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Most people are silly then.
£100,000 a year isnt that much for a job that sucks. Remember, the tax rate in Britain is extortionate, so youre not going to have much over £60,000 left after the rest has been stolen from you. From that £50,000, about £10,000 will be spent compensating for the incredibly high cost of lving in London, so you have about £50,000 effectively.
Someone with a maths who isnt chasing after money could get a job they love doing, and take home about £20,000 after tax minimum. So in real terms, youre getting (roughly) an extra £30,000 a year in exchange for doing a job that sucks, and working 60+ hour weeks.
sounds great
If money is your main driving goal, then working in Britain is dumb.
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there are plenty of ways to get around the tax system
Zar
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15 Aug 2003, 23:50
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
A good job outside london earns around £35,40k pa.
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Examples of a job youd be prepared to do 40 hours a week for the rest of your life that pays around £40k outside london plz.
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15 Aug 2003, 23:52
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#53
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Examples of a job youd be prepared to do 40 hours a week for the rest of your life that pays around £40k outside london plz.
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My mother earns less than £40k pa as a deputy head and works much more than 40 hours pw.
Teaching sucks. Which is why they have noone doing it.
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15 Aug 2003, 23:57
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
My mother earns less than £40k pa as a deputy head and works much more than 40 hours pw.
Teaching sucks. Which is why they have noone doing it.
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Doesnt really matter. I dont see any real difference between earning £25000 after tax and earning £50000. Sure, in the second case your house is going to have bigger rooms and your car is going to be a lot nicer (you'll have a better TV too), but these are just minor trivialities- I doubt theres very much difference in real terms (your lifestyle is going to be almost the exact same, except the person earning £50000 will have a few extra trimmings on it), and theres no way its worth it when youre having to do a sucky job in order to earn the higher amount. If you were earning something like £150,000+ after tax, then the difference would start to become large enough in order to make it worthwhile.
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15 Aug 2003, 23:57
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#55
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Examples of a job youd be prepared to do 40 hours a week for the rest of your life that pays around £40k outside london plz.
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being a sub contracted private stock broker. You don't have to put in 40 hours a week, just earn the company a lot of money.
that is what my boss does. He is a private stock broker and he "works" for anotehr company. They basically set him up, give him the capital he needs to work, the building etc, and running costs.., and they pay for his assistants etc.. he deals on the stock market and 50% of what he makes he gives to the company.
the other 50% he keeps.
This guy is 58 i think. He is working in the countryside, in a nice big office. He is the boss of this office. He is making a lot of money. Just today he sold shares in superscape that earned him a profit of £4000 (which he made in less than a week), and don't forget he make many other trades a week also.
I want a job like his
Zar
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15 Aug 2003, 23:58
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zar
being a sub contracted private stock broker. You don't have to put in 40 hours a week, just earn the company a lot of money.
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Yeah, stockbroking looks pretty 
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15 Aug 2003, 23:58
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#57
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Examples of a job youd be prepared to do 40 hours a week for the rest of your life that pays around £40k outside london plz.
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My dad's job as a programmer is like that except he works slightly longer hours and earns slightly more. I don't know exact figures. Though I think Wokingham has one of the highest costs of living outside London.
__________________
#linux
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16 Aug 2003, 00:02
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#58
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Doesnt really matter. I dont see any real difference between earning £25000 after tax and earning £50000. Sure, in the second case your house is going to have bigger rooms and your car is going to be a lot nicer (you'll have a better TV too), but these are just minor trivialities- I doubt theres very much difference in real terms (your lifestyle is going to be almost the exact same, except the person earning £50000 will have a few extra trimmings on it), and theres no way its worth it when youre having to do a sucky job in order to earn the higher amount. If you were earning something like £150,000+ after tax, then the difference would start to become large enough in order to make it worthwhile.
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No. Consider dept payments and the like, and a difference of £25,000 pa makes a HUGE difference.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:04
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
No. Consider dept payments and the like, and a difference of £25,000 pa makes a HUGE difference.
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Not enough to justify moving from a job you like, to a career you dislike (which also involves effectively doubling your work hours per week)
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16 Aug 2003, 00:07
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#60
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Not enough to justify moving from a job you like, to a career you dislike (which also involves effectively doubling your work hours per week)
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You probably won't double your working hours. In the case of my mother, she'd halve them.
However, you're assuming that people LIKE the low paid job and HATE the higher paid one. People are more likely to dislike them both, and therefore prefer one with greater rewards.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:12
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
You probably won't double your working hours. In the case of my mother, she'd halve them.
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I thought we were still talking about investment banking?
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
However, you're assuming that people LIKE the low paid job and HATE the higher paid one. People are more likely to dislike them both, and therefore prefer one with greater rewards.
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Id assume that most people with decent university degrees would be able to find a low paying job that they didnt hate.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:17
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#62
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
I thought we were still talking about investment banking?
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Yep.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Id assume that most people with decent university degrees would be able to find a low paying job that they didnt hate.
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10, 20 years ago you'd probably be right. A 'degree' is a devalued concept nowadays.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:17
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#63
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mmm.. pills
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,152
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I hate mathmeticians. 
=[DJ Bass]=
__________________
CSS : the result of letting artists design something only an engineer should touch.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:20
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#64
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by djbass
I hate mathmeticians.
=[DJ Bass]=
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Mathematicans hate you 
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16 Aug 2003, 00:20
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Yep.
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Investment bankers generally work upwards of 80 hours a week. Most well paying jobs in the financial sector have standard 60+ hour weeks, as far as I know.
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
10, 20 years ago you'd probably be right. A 'degree' is a devalued concept nowadays.
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I said a decent degree.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:23
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#66
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Investment bankers generally work upwards of 80 hours a week. Most well paying jobs in the financial sector have standard 60+ hour weeks, as far as I know.
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About the same then.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
I said a decent degree.
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A physics degree from, say, Bath is a decent degree. The person will probably be forced to work in an area that isn't right for them.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:25
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
A physics degree from, say, Bath is a decent degree. The person will probably be forced to work in an area that isn't right for them.
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People arent 'forced' to do anything.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:25
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#68
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I'm great!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leeds
Posts: 388
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I am forced to not strangle myself with my bare hands...
__________________
If it hadn't been for Cotton-Eye Joe, I'da been married a long time ago. Where did you come from? Where did you go? Where did you come from, Cotton-Eye Joe?!
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16 Aug 2003, 00:27
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#69
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
People arent 'forced' to do anything.
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Assuming they work rather than going on the dole, they can be.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:29
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#70
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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incidently if you are going to try investment banking a maths degree even a first class one from oxbridge isnt going to count for much unless you can demonstrate a real knowledge/passion for the particular field/market you're going in. With the global economy the way it is i believe that investement banks have cut back graduate recruitement by something silly like 30 - 40% its harder to get in then dace's arse.
They dont only recruit maths degrees but any numerate ones, and some, for instance biology/chemistry/engineering can offer a real advantage over maths since the graduates come away with a much better base understanding/knowledge of their key markets.
Have you thought about actuary?
Oh and im with Nodrog with this one, all that 'glitz' and 'glamour' of 'city' jobs is a pretty thin veneer, i have friends who went into it, and it can be soul destroying. Enjoyement of life is important to me, i dont need that much money for it, if you do good for you, me id rather be poor and happy. Rich and happy would be nice, but after having really thought about it, even after if i won the lottery, apart from buying a house to secure a roof over my head, the flash cars/materialistic goods wouldnt make me any happier.
Last edited by Nusselt; 16 Aug 2003 at 01:55.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:31
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#71
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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You didn't mention physics, which is probably the best example of what you were trying to get across.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:31
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#72
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
Oh and im with Nodrog with this one, all that 'glitz' and 'glamour' of 'city' jobs is a pretty thin veneer, i have friends who went into it, and it can be soul destroying. Enjoyement of life is important to me, i dont need that much money for it, if you do good for you, me it rather be poor and happy. Rich and happy would be nice, but after having really thought about it, even after i won the lottery, apart from buying a house to secure a roof over my head, the flash cars/materialistic goods wouldnt make me any happier.
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Depends on the job I suppose. I expect with some 'city' jobs, the associated lifestyle would be pretty good (for a certain kind of person). Investment banking probably isnt one of them though.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:34
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#73
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
You didn't mention physics, which is probably the best example of what you were trying to get across.
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yup i missed it but its not necesaraly the best example
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16 Aug 2003, 00:35
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#74
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
yup i missed it but its not necesaraly the best example
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EVERY piece of advice/literature I've received says it is. This isn't from Physicists btw.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:39
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#75
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
EVERY piece of advice/literature I've received says it is. This isn't from Physicists btw.
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really? that really is surprising as with investment in particular i dont see how physics would ingrate you with knowledge of the field whilst you're doing your degree. The only friend i know who became an investment banker did it with a chemisttry degree, he then did a masters in technology policy or something and his dissertation from that (which had somehting to do with pharmecuetical companies/markets) got him the job. But to be fair thats the only example i know of and physics may well be better, it'd be a surprise to me though, dont suppose you have links?
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16 Aug 2003, 00:41
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#76
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Not offhand. And don't forget that Chemistry is just a version of Physics where they're too stupid to go beyond electron interactions.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:43
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Almost every single thing I've ever read about "City" banking jobs has said that your degree subject doesnt matter at all, and that youre just as likely to get given a job with a zoology or philosophy degree as you are with one in economics or maths.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:48
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#78
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Almost every single thing I've ever read about "City" banking jobs has said that your degree subject doesnt matter at all, and that youre just as likely to get given a job with a zoology or philosophy degree as you are with one in economics or maths.
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some disciplines need numerate degrees, others like ive said, need you to show you have real knowledge/passion for the particular market.
EDIT
just to clarify this thread was about investment banking which is a small part of the city, you could get into some feilds in the big four with any good degree.
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16 Aug 2003, 00:52
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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The big four?
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16 Aug 2003, 00:58
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#80
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, KPMG, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu and Arthur Andersen
used to be the big five then anderson did norty things, very very norty things
so now they're kinda the big four, basically started as accountancy firms now provide other consultancy tax/acturial/mangement etc etc
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16 Aug 2003, 00:59
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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oh i see
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16 Aug 2003, 01:00
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#82
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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PWC sponsor CCBC.
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16 Aug 2003, 01:00
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#83
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, KPMG, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu and Arthur Andersen
used to be the big five then anderson did norty things, very very norty things
so now they're kinda the big four, basically started as accountancy firms now provide other consultancy tax/acturial/mangement etc etc
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you forgot merrill lynch, goldman sachs and a few others i cant think of right now
Zar
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16 Aug 2003, 01:04
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#84
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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No-one's explained why investment would be boring. Beside perhaps being Prime Minister it has to be one of the most rewarding jobs I can think of. Maybe I don't know anything about working and "happiness" and so on.
__________________
#linux
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16 Aug 2003, 01:05
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#85
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
No-one's explained why investment would be boring. Beside perhaps being Prime Minister it has to be one of the most rewarding jobs I can think of. Maybe I don't know anything about working and "happiness" and so on.
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if you turn out to be a prime minister like tony blair, i dont think it serves any benefit other than being a trained poodle dog.
Zar
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16 Aug 2003, 01:06
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#86
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 2,709
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zar
you forgot merrill lynch, goldman sachs and a few others i cant think of right now
Zar
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without knowing more and sounding an idiot, didnt they start out as investment banks then go into consultancy? the term 'big four' or 'big five' has always applied, when ive been around anyway to those that i mentioned.
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16 Aug 2003, 01:08
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#87
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Chief over all Monkeys
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
without knowing more and sounding an idiot, didnt they start out as investment banks then go into consultancy? the term 'big four' or 'big five' has always applied, when ive been around anyway to those that i mentioned.
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accept my apologies, didn't read that you were talking about them being the original accoutancy firms. Yeh ML, and GS, are involved more on the investment and financial side rather than accountancy and consultancy
Zar
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16 Aug 2003, 01:17
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
No-one's explained why investment would be boring. Beside perhaps being Prime Minister it has to be one of the most rewarding jobs I can think of. Maybe I don't know anything about working and "happiness" and so on.
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I never said it was boring; my point was that £100,000 a year isnt a lot of money to earn for a job you dislike. If you happen to like the job then great, go knock yourself out.
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16 Aug 2003, 13:28
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#89
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Governor General
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 739
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Missed my firm at york, though they've offered me a different course.
I actually missed my insurance but got the equivalent grades (they wanted BBB I got ABC) and they've said yep that's OK, so I'm either going to do Politics/Social Policy at York or just straight Politics at Sheffield, most likely Sheffield.
__________________
Va Va Voom
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16 Aug 2003, 14:30
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#90
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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For 100 grand a year I'd do my job poorly until they fired me.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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