Planetarion Forums

Madina · 23 May 2004, 22:08

do not download it (if you thought about it) - here is why http://www.hl2world.com/article87.html

unless you like gay porn - reading the link will explain

it could also be a lie to stop people downloading it

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madina

do not download it (if you thought about it) - here is why http://www.hl2world.com/article87.html

unless you like gay porn - reading the link will explain

it could also be a lie to stop people downloading it

That's from october 4th.

Madina · 23 May 2004, 22:22

i only metioned it cos i saw it as an active download on several torrent sites

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madina

i only metioned it cos i saw it as an active download on several torrent sites

It's probably just lies, because it's the first I've heard of it.

And why does it really matter if people are downloading gay porn?

You're protecting the bandwidth of people who download 'stolen' (in a sense; remember that this is the source code, and included the stuff from Havok 2.0, which I don't think they'd particularly want out in the open) software, that's all.

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

And why does it really matter if people are downloading gay porn?

Because they could be downloading something better?

Or are people who download stolen/leaked software somehow removed from moral calculations like child molestors or murderers?

Zar · 23 May 2004, 22:32

im downloading ut2004 from bt atm. claims it allows online play. does it?

Madina · 23 May 2004, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It's probably just lies, because it's the first I've heard of it.

And why does it really matter if people are downloading gay porn?

must be lies if you havent heard about it

i dont have a problem with people downloading gay porn - but i know i wouldnt want to download 1.4gb to find out it is something which i didnt want

Madina · 23 May 2004, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

im downloading ut2004 from bt atm. claims it allows online play. does it?

there is a crack that enables you to play online

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

im downloading ut2004 from bt atm. claims it allows online play. does it?

You'll need a unique cd key, unless you want to use a keygen. But that will be stopping someone else playing the game, so it is effectively stealing in this case.

Just buy the game for god's sake, it's only £20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madina

there is a crack that enables you to play online

Why the hell would you need a crack? The CD-check is removed in the latest patch.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madina

must be lies if you havent heard about it

I know of (many) people who've downloaded the leaked alpha, and I've not seen any sign of this kind of thing.

Plus, you people nowadays are spoilt if you think that downloading something which may turn out to be something else is something new that needs to be warned about.

Zar · 23 May 2004, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You'll need a unique cd key, unless you want to use a keygen. But that will be stopping someone else playing the game, so it is effectively stealing in this case.

Just buy the game for god's sake, it's only £20.

never!

i havent bought music, movies, software or a single game since i first got adsl about 4 years ago (and i havent bought music for over 6 years - ever since free dialup became the norm). That isn't going to change for a while...

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Because they could be downloading something better?

Them's the risks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Or are people who download stolen/leaked software somehow removed from moral calculations like child molestors or murderers?

How in the hell is 'you might download something you don't want' a moral calculation?

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

never!

i havent bought music, movies, software or a single game since i first got adsl about 4 years ago. That isn't going to change for a while...

I couldn't care less about music, but the margins in games are so small in cases of some of the better obscure games that this is quite a damaging attitude for a body of people to have, because it just translates into lessened PC support, and that which there is tends to be more generic (sup EA)

Madina · 23 May 2004, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I know of (many) people who've downloaded the leaked alpha, and I've not seen any sign of this kind of thing.

Plus, you people nowadays are spoilt if you think that downloading something which may turn out to be something else is something new that needs to be warned about.

so if you downloaded 1.4gb of data to find out it is something you thought it wasnt (like the complete opposite e.g. gay porn instead of a game) you would be fine with that?

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madina

so if you downloaded 1.4gb of data to find out it is something you thought it wasnt (like the complete opposite e.g. gay porn instead of a game) you would be fine with that?

I'd accept it as one of the risks of the game.

I accepted it when I downloaded the wrong film because of mislabeling when I was on 56k, when it took about 2 days in total to download.

On 1Mb ADSL it may only take 3 hours to download 1.4 gigs.

Zar · 23 May 2004, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I couldn't care less about music, but the margins in games are so small in cases of some of the better obscure games that this is quite a damaging attitude for a body of people to have, because it just translates into lessened PC support, and that which there is tends to be more generic (sup EA)

oh wait - i bought wc3. forgot about that. that was a game worth buying (and i buy games for my gc from time to time)

also im sick of getting games on cd's (borrowed). Not only is it frustrating to install 4+ cd's, its just stupid also. I'm sure packaging costs would go down with 1 dvd instead of 4 + cd's. Also for those developers too lazy to write games onto more than 1cd, if the standard changes - they might explore new options

Nodrog · 23 May 2004, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Or are people who download stolen/leaked software somehow removed from moral calculations like child molestors or murderers?

Surely you have to concede that this has been 'stolen'. What we are discussing here isnt copyright infringement, its more akin to industrial espionage.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

I'm sure packaging costs would go down with 1 dvd instead of 4 + cd's.

Not really, given that the box and the manual will be the same.

Also, I find it quite funny that you're complaining about this in a conversation about unreal tournament 2004, given I'm sitting here with my DVD edition on top of my PC.

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

How in the hell is 'you might download something you don't want' a moral calculation?

You were questioning why he would want to "help out" (as it were) evil pirates. Your attitude implied that no right thinking person should want to help out someone engaging in such activity.

Yes, downloading something misnamed is always a risk when downloading stuff on the internet. But if I see someone downloading something which I know (or strongly suspect) to be something else, I'll tell them. That way they can utilse their connection better and hopefully have a slightly better day. I've had long downloads which later proved to be rubbish, it'd have been nice if I could have saved bandwidth (or other inconveniences like leaving my PC on while it was downloading and such).

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Surely you have to concede that this has been 'stolen'. What we are discussing here isnt copyright infringement, its more akin to industrial espionage.

Did I say it wasn't stolen? Did I put stolen in speech marks?

The only reason why I put in leaked with that was because I have no idea how the source became public. I don't really care, but it's feasible someone on the inside leaked it. In such circumstances the word "leaked" would probably be more appropriate than stolen, but it's not really important.

Zar · 23 May 2004, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Not really, given that the box and the manual will be the same.

Also, I find it quite funny that you're complaining about this in a conversation about unreal tournament 2004, given I'm sitting here with my DVD edition on top of my PC.

ut2004 is a one off. its still rare

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

ut2004 is a one off. its still rare

Deus Ex 2, Far Cry.

It's on the rise.

You know why it's on the rise?

Because it's only now that these games have started taking up more than 2 cds.

If you notice, Black Isle RPGs have had DVD editions for years.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

The only reason why I put in leaked with that was because I have no idea how the source became public.

Some naughty hackers hacked valve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Your attitude implied that no right thinking should want to help out someone engaging in such activity.

It depends what the download is.

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It depends what the download is.

I can't really think of anything where it wouldn't apply. Unless it was a video they themselves had made of raping my mum or something.

I've downloaded pre-release software, some of it undoubtedly got through less-than-honest channels in the first instance. Unsurprisingly, I don't consider myself an evil baby eating monster because of it.

Zar · 23 May 2004, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Deus Ex 2, Far Cry.

It's on the rise.

You know why it's on the rise?

Because it's only now that these games have started taking up more than 2 cds.

If you notice, Black Isle RPGs have had DVD editions for years.

perhaps.

but for example:

i hate football games. they are generally most boring (objective view). However one thing you do notice when your friends play it, is the mundane commentary. It's repetitive and boring. Imagine what a DVD could do to this...you could expand the commentary 10 fold. Games like these need to move into the DVD generation.

Zar · 23 May 2004, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

perhaps.

but for example:

i hate football games. they are generally most boring (objective view). However one thing you do notice when your friends play it, is the mundane commentary. It's repetitive and boring. Imagine what a DVD could do to this...you could expand the commentary 10 fold. Games like these need to move into the DVD generation.

although: they could just use mp3 format instead of wav....

hold on? so why the hell is the commentary still so scarce and shit?

oops just quoted myself. meant to edit

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 23:06

Commentary costs money to produce, more so if it's by celebs? (which sports games generally do)

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I can't really think of anything where it wouldn't apply. Unless it was a video they themselves had made of raping my mum or something.

I'm not particularly up on encouraging acts I find to be morally invalid, ya dig?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Unsurprisingly, I don't consider myself an evil baby eating monster because of it.

This statement is pretty meaningless, duder. Not many people believe themselves to be evil.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

i hate football games. they are generally most boring (objective view). However one thing you do notice when your friends play it, is the mundane commentary. It's repetitive and boring. Imagine what a DVD could do to this...you could expand the commentary 10 fold. Games like these need to move into the DVD generation.

They don't change the commentary for 2 reasons:

1. It'd be more difficult to code a more elegant system

2. It'd probably cost more.

As it doesn't really affect sales, I don't see why they should particularly, given that most people will be playing the game for the quality of the game. It's nice and all to have more features, but these things are hardly original works of art to begin with.

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I'm not particularly up on encouraging acts I find to be morally invalid, ya dig?

How does downloading stolen source code encourage hacking? Paying for it, sure you got a point. But downloading it?

Quote:

This statement is pretty meaningless, duder. Not many people believe themselves to be evil.

OK, do you consider me to be evil?

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

How does downloading stolen source code encourage hacking? Paying for it, sure you got a point. But downloading it?

It's a world of prestige rather than money as such, so yeah, probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

OK, do you consider me to be evil?

Darn tootin, you piece of paper carrying commie.

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It's a world of prestige rather than money as such, so yeah, probably.

The effects are so indirect as to be neglible. Under that logic you shouldn't really discuss it as that adds to the infamy the crackers/whatever get. Whether you've specifically downloaded the leaked code or not is pretty irrelevent from the original crackers perspective. Merely discussing it adds to their ego boost (if they're somehow aware of this conversation which is probably as remote as the chance of them knowing I'm playing it).

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 23:17

I presume it'd be fairly easy to, you know, track a torrent. What with all these torrent tracker bits of code about.

Nondescript Human · 23 May 2004, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

However one thing you do notice when your friends play it, is the mundane commentary. It's repetitive and boring.

The shite commentary in Fifa 2004 is one of it's greates assets anyway. Who could ever tire of hearing 'Motty' scream in excitement after a weak shot which happened so long ago the ball is now in the other half?

Nodrog · 23 May 2004, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Did I say it wasn't stolen? Did I put stolen in speech marks?
.

just checking yo

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I presume it'd be fairly easy to, you know, track a torrent. What with all these torrent tracker bits of code about.

I'm pretty sure it's pretty easy to search for "Half-Life Stolen Code" on Google if one were that way inclined. I very much doubt they sit thinking "Hmmm, well, I was going to break into Microsoft Servers this morning but according to my torrent tracker only a thousand people downloaded my last release".

As someone who briefly flirted with this sort of nonsense, I'd get a much larger e-hard-on from seeing a major news site covering the hack than bothering to track how many leechers were currently getting it or whatever (not that that would be even a vaguely reliable method of knowing how many people have downloaded it).

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

just checking yo

Having said that, the crime committed was breaking into the Valve servers. Unless they deleted the code on the server after they finished downloading it, I don't consider it theft. It's irrelevent anyway as it is a crime but you know, bleh.

MrL_JaKiri · 23 May 2004, 23:26

True, but then I don't like seeing games before they're released, and by extension NEITHER SHOULD YOU.

Nodrog · 23 May 2004, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It's a world of prestige rather than money as such, so yeah, probably.

I would imagine that the 'prestige' they care about is not that which comes from random internet users benefitting from their work, but that which is derived from being acknowledged as talented by those they consider their peers. I find that praise (and criticism) is only generally meaningful when it comes from those whose opinions you respect, not from 'the masses'.

Dante Hicks · 23 May 2004, 23:29

It's all about respect on the scene.

Intrepid00 · 24 May 2004, 21:25

There are some compiled demos that contain nasty crap. What do you expect when the source code was taken.

Pyr0 MK III · 24 May 2004, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madina

there is a crack that enables you to play online

Only on cracked servers though iirc