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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:17   #51
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Yeah man. There were hundreds of them. So many that the game is still running strong played by fifteen thousand people at a level of intensity the world has never seen. Seriously, is there anyone who wasn't involved with dragons who'd like to put them forward as better than Legion, Fury and Xanadu? Because otherwise I'm going to request mz just deletes every post until someone does.
o/
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:20   #52
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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o/
Considering you didn't know who sid was the chair has declined to recognise your opinion on this matter.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:24   #53
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Re: Ancient history

i'd have to agree with JBG, tho i didnt play many rounds against Dragons i cant hold them in the same league as Fury or Legion.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 18:25   #54
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Considering you didn't know who sid was the chair has declined to recognise your opinion on this matter.
Valid point.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 20:05   #55
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Yeah man. There were hundreds of them. So many that the game is still running strong played by fifteen thousand people at a level of intensity the world has never seen. Seriously, is there anyone who wasn't involved with dragons who'd like to put them forward as better than Legion, Fury and Xanadu? Because otherwise I'm going to request mz just deletes every post until someone does.
Dunno if the 19494 posts have left you retarded, but don't think anyone here has actually compared 56kb modem times to current adsl/cable reign when people actually ARE (/were) able to be online and active.

Also a little bit hilarious for someone to complain for boring off-topic discussion whilst being so actively ON it hah. Just do yourself a favor and request or demand mz to disband the whole topic. No fun lost (quating the previous)
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 20:30   #56
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Re: Ancient history

Or I could just sit here and do nothing while you boys fight over who has the biggest e-peen.
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Unread 3 Sep 2010, 23:38   #57
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Yeah man. There were hundreds of them. So many that the game is still running strong played by fifteen thousand people at a level of intensity the world has never seen. Seriously, is there anyone who wasn't involved with dragons who'd like to put them forward as better than Legion, Fury and Xanadu? Because otherwise I'm going to request mz just deletes every post until someone does.
The sad part about PIA was that because it was so intense, it burnt out much of the community. I tried to tell people we needed to move away from 30min ticks over there before it all imploded, but sadly nothing was done and the playerbase dwindled rapidly.

If you want to know what others thought, I suggest talking to the Ministry people amongst your own alliance first and foremost. They were sort of an integral opposing force to us back in the days. Other might include Ouzo/Elysium/Omen/ToT people.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 01:36   #58
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Re: Ancient history

While Dragons was indeed indeed a formidable force on PIA, maybe even a superpower; their image was tarnished when the mass botting was exposed (forget which round #, was the one when Deuce and Omen were founded). And because of this I don't place them on the pantheon of superpower.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 02:07   #59
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by Jumo View Post
While Dragons was indeed indeed a formidable force on PIA, maybe even a superpower; their image was tarnished when the mass botting was exposed (forget which round #, was the one when Deuce and Omen were founded). And because of this I don't place them on the pantheon of superpower.
There was a small minority who ever really used the bot. Meanwhile, former Ministry players have admitted since that they used VNC, meaning both sides did some accountsharing. Not that the same didn't happen in Legion, Fury, Xanadu(MrJ was one of the HC of Xanadu) and so on.

Largely the bot was rejected and discarded, and by the time the so called mass usage was exposed there were maybe half a dozen people still using Jedi, a portion of them LDK. Eventually it was just MrJ running it for his own amusement.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 03:51   #60
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Re: Ancient history

There was quite alot of cheating in dragons. Account sharing doesnt REALLY count as cheating imo. Bot usage does. Sending eta 0 defence kinda makes it a bit easier to win!
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 04:09   #61
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Re: Ancient history

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There was quite alot of cheating in dragons. Account sharing doesnt REALLY count as cheating imo. Bot usage does. Sending eta 0 defence kinda makes it a bit easier to win!
Heh, nice of you to bring that up. Again, the same few Sectioners. Although MrJ did show PIA developers how it was done pre-round (as he did with all weaknesses he found), and as nothing was done about them, he used them for his own gain. Again, this behaviour didn't really go over well within Dragons either, so it was marginalized quite quickly.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 12:22   #62
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by lizardking View Post
Dunno if the 19494 posts have left you retarded, but don't think anyone here has actually compared 56kb modem times to current adsl/cable reign when people actually ARE (/were) able to be online and active.

Also a little bit hilarious for someone to complain for boring off-topic discussion whilst being so actively ON it hah. Just do yourself a favor and request or demand mz to disband the whole topic. No fun lost (quating the previous)
lol you were online on a friday evening on the forums lol




(You're a moron and I'm not going to dignify your posts with a reasonable response.)
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 13:16   #63
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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lol you were online on a friday evening on the forums lol




(You're a moron and I'm not going to dignify your posts with a reasonable response.)
Yeah I for once have to admit MacTanZu being spot on (and that really doesn't happen quite often!). The ages old debate was about you.

ps. woke up next to a lovely girlie.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 13:20   #64
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Re: Ancient history

Get off the internet.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 16:59   #65
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
There was a small minority who ever really used the bot. Meanwhile, former Ministry players have admitted since that they used VNC, meaning both sides did some accountsharing. Not that the same didn't happen in Legion, Fury, Xanadu(MrJ was one of the HC of Xanadu) and so on.

Largely the bot was rejected and discarded, and by the time the so called mass usage was exposed there were maybe half a dozen people still using Jedi, a portion of them LDK. Eventually it was just MrJ running it for his own amusement.

While Ministry may have cheated, I don't consider Ministry a superpower either for different reasons altogether.

And botting is different than simple account sharing, signing up 100 planets (iirc this is a low ball figure) and using a bot to run them is very different than having a mate check in on your account, scan, launch whatever.

I will not deny that both VNC and botting is definitely cheating, and both Ministry and Dragons, if not all allies in PIA cheated, it's the fact that the scale of cheating was greater than most top tier alliance have had. And I don't doubt great HCs like BaSSe and Mac disagreed with the cheating, and they certainly distanced themselves from it (they weren't even HCs of Dragons at the time iirc).
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 17:52   #66
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Re: Ancient history

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While Ministry may have cheated, I don't consider Ministry a superpower either for different reasons altogether.

And botting is different than simple account sharing, signing up 100 planets (iirc this is a low ball figure) and using a bot to run them is very different than having a mate check in on your account, scan, launch whatever.

I will not deny that both VNC and botting is definitely cheating, and both Ministry and Dragons, if not all allies in PIA cheated, it's the fact that the scale of cheating was greater than most top tier alliance have had. And I don't doubt great HCs like BaSSe and Mac disagreed with the cheating, and they certainly distanced themselves from it (they weren't even HCs of Dragons at the time iirc).
And who pray tell signed up 100 planets? I think you're confusing this with Killmark. Jedi required that each planet be run through a proxy on someones computer, effectively meaning every account in there corresponded to a real person. Glorified accountsharing, basically. There were other features to the bot, but none of them were ever used afaik.

Ps. I knew people who played in Legion back in the day who had 10-20 planets. There's never been a clean alliance in this game, although granted the advantages of accountsharing with pl's and such are far lesser now than they were before, which accounts for the marked decline in any such activities.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 18:47   #67
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Re: Ancient history

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And who pray tell signed up 100 planets? I think you're confusing this with Killmark. Jedi required that each planet be run through a proxy on someones computer, effectively meaning every account in there corresponded to a real person. Glorified accountsharing, basically. There were other features to the bot, but none of them were ever used afaik.

Ps. I knew people who played in Legion back in the day who had 10-20 planets. There's never been a clean alliance in this game, although granted the advantages of accountsharing with pl's and such are far lesser now than they were before, which accounts for the marked decline in any such activities.
In fairness the extent of the Dragons shananigans may have been exagerated, Ministry do have a penchant from dramatics. And this is digressing from the superpower question.

I guess for me it boils down to this: eXi (a true superpower) was initially comprised of the best/most active hand picked players from Dragons, LDK and Omen (others yes, but mostly those 3 alliances) - my point is that it took the best players from 3 seperate PIA alliances to make a true PAX superpower.

Also, in addition to PL'ing, I believe widespread inet access from cellphones is another factor which lead to the decline in account sharing. The necessity to log into someone else's account to launch def has been practically eliminated as you can launch from a cell phone from virtually anywhere.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 18:49   #68
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Re: Ancient history

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Get off the internet.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 19:25   #69
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Re: Ancient history

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I guess for me it boils down to this: eXi (a true superpower) was initially comprised of the best/most active hand picked players from Dragons, LDK and Omen (others yes, but mostly those 3 alliances) - my point is that it took the best players from 3 seperate PIA alliances to make a true PAX superpower.
Tbh, not alot of Omens joined eXi in r13 since we played as a BG in WP. That being said we were napped with eXi since we knew all of them. In the end a couple also shipjumped iirc! ( I didnt play r13 actively at all )
Omen joined with eXi after r14 failure and we played there as a BG. After that ALOT of Omens are now considered eXi core however. "core"...
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 20:03   #70
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Re: Ancient history

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Tbh, not alot of Omens joined eXi in r13 since we played as a BG in WP. That being said we were napped with eXi since we knew all of them. In the end a couple also shipjumped iirc! ( I didnt play r13 actively at all )
Omen joined with eXi after r14 failure and we played there as a BG. After that ALOT of Omens are now considered eXi core however. "core"...
You're right, it's been years so forgive my shoddy memory

Still it took the most dedicated players from two of PIAs better alliances plus additional players still from both PIA and PA to form a true superpower.

Additionally it is difficult to measure an alliances success in one game to the superpowers of another game. While Dragons may have been dominating they did have an easier time with opponents. I mean no one would argue that Ministry or OuZo are the same calibre of alliance as say Fury, Legion, 1up or eXi; and thus by Dragons itself not going against a superpower I have a hard time being able to say that definitively Dragons are in the "superpower" classification.

They did dominate some PIA rounds, but going toe-to-toe with any of the other superpowers? Really? And the last round I played PIA when allies went solo (no big blocks) Dragons did not dominate and lost out to the likes Elysium.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 20:34   #71
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Re: Ancient history

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I guess for me it boils down to this: eXi (a true superpower) was initially comprised of the best/most active hand picked players from Dragons, LDK and Omen (others yes, but mostly those 3 alliances) - my point is that it took the best players from 3 seperate PIA alliances to make a true PAX superpower.
That's a pretty huge overstatement, to say eXi handpicked the best from Dragons. Quite a few made the move, but most of the Dragonlands/TK people did not, leaving out quite a few of the very best players to have played for Dragons in PIA (Jurgen, Carnis, skaut etc.). I myself played in Angels that round as we spread our gal across eXi/Angels/WP with only LordN and someone else joining eXi.

I assume most of Caladan(sp?) went to eXi, but I guess lizi might know more about that.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 20:37   #72
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Re: Ancient history

For the love of god and his pets, this is PLANETARION, NOT THAT GAY PIA. Achievements in PIA means squat nothing and if someone think its so important to talk about PIA then use PIA forums. What is that? PIA is dead? OH!
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 21:03   #73
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Re: Ancient history

If you don't care about the thread, don't read it and certainly don't reply to it.
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Unread 4 Sep 2010, 21:16   #74
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Re: Ancient history

I try to, but they instantly gets ruined when people start mixing a different game into Planetarion. Its happening often aswell.
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Unread 5 Sep 2010, 23:33   #75
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Re: Ancient history

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For the love of god and his pets, this is PLANETARION, NOT THAT GAY PIA. Achievements in PIA means squat nothing and if someone think its so important to talk about PIA then use PIA forums. What is that? PIA is dead? OH!
pia still had more planets than what pa have now!
oh so that means apprimes achievements mean squat shit?:P
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 00:08   #76
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by Buddah View Post
pia still had more planets than what pa have now!
oh so that means apprimes achievements mean squat shit?:P
While the level of "professionalism" in pa (and I assume pia as well) certainly didn't drop off in direct proportion to the decline of the playerbase, it's laughable to try and compare any alliance (including my own yes!) that does well in a 1-2000 sized game with one which dominated in a game 10 or 20 times the size. The bottom line in this case is that there just isn't a solid basis for comparison and until someone invents a time machine there won't be.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 00:28   #77
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Re: Ancient history

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While the level of "professionalism" in pa (and I assume pia as well) certainly didn't drop off in direct proportion to the decline of the playerbase, it's laughable to try and compare any alliance (including my own yes!) that does well in a 1-2000 sized game with one which dominated in a game 10 or 20 times the size. The bottom line in this case is that there just isn't a solid basis for comparison and until someone invents a time machine there won't be.
Valid point, alliances back then were bigger and faced more planets. However, the average planet was also weaker, and the favoured tactics were less about war and more about simply hitting people who were quite weak comparatively. Let's not forget, the original powerhouses were all known for being extremely political creatures with round-stagnating blocks (rnd2 Concordium, Legion and Fury rnd3, VeX, nd4/5/7 Furgion etc.). The level of organisation in Fury or Legion with 300 members and the average level of skill/commitment was most likely lower than that of later strong alliances.

It's not at all a foregone conclusion that a bigger uni was harder to play in than a smaller one is, nor that bigger alliances were inherently better run. The human mind simply sees the past in a more favourable light than the present, hence why every generation complains about how things were better before, even as great advances are made within every area of life.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 01:03   #78
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Re: Ancient history

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The human mind simply sees the past in a more favourable light than the present
This is in no way ironic whatsoever given the amount of furious mental masturbation you've indulged in over what an alliance that hasn't played in years accomplished in a game which nobody even plays anymore
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 01:31   #79
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Re: Ancient history

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This is in no way ironic whatsoever given the amount of furious mental masturbation you've indulged in over what an alliance that hasn't played in years accomplished in a game which nobody even plays anymore
Whom of us is more likely to be affected by such a cognitive bias, the one who is mindful of it, or the one who is not? The one who speaks of events 5 years passed, or the one who speaks of events 10 years passed?
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 01:38   #80
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Re: Ancient history

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Whom of us is more likely to be affected by such a cognitive bias, the one who is mindful of it, or the one who is not? The one who speaks of events 5 years passed, or the one who speaks of events 10 years passed?
Yeah man. I'd never ever once considered the possibility that someone could view the history of planetarion through rose-tinted glasses. In fact, until you mentioned it just now, I hadn't even heard of the concept.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 01:57   #81
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Re: Ancient history

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Yeah man. I'd never ever once considered the possibility that someone could view the history of planetarion through rose-tinted glasses. In fact, until you mentioned it just now, I hadn't even heard of the concept.
Glad to be of service! Now if you wouldn't mind actually addressing any of the arguments I've made, or is that beyond you?
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 02:09   #82
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Re: Ancient history

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Glad to be of service! Now if you wouldn't mind actually addressing any of the arguments I've made, or is that beyond you?
Realistically, no, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone over whether an alliance that doesn't exist anymore that played a game that nobody plays anymore in which their greatest competition was ministry or some other alliance I haven't heard of was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm sure it's just a massive coincidence that all these wonderfully capable BCs never accomplished anything worthwhile when these games were played by more people than I could fit in my back garden.


In fact you have me convinced, dragons or tk or whoever the **** you're actually arguing was so wonderful would have wiped the floor with anyone. My apologies for having so wasted everyone's time when the answer is so self-evident.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 02:51   #83
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Re: Ancient history

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Realistically, no, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone over whether an alliance that doesn't exist anymore that played a game that nobody plays anymore in which their greatest competition was ministry or some other alliance I haven't heard of was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm sure it's just a massive coincidence that all these wonderfully capable BCs never accomplished anything worthwhile when these games were played by more people than I could fit in my back garden.


In fact you have me convinced, dragons or tk or whoever the **** you're actually arguing was so wonderful would have wiped the floor with anyone. My apologies for having so wasted everyone's time when the answer is so self-evident.
You don't even know who these people were, heh. There's barely been a alliance in PA history that hasn't had Finns as officers or HC, and Dragons drew together quite a few of them. It was the Finnish equivalent of LDK in that sense, also giving quite a few finns their first place to grow and prosper.

Heck, I bet you don't even know who half the finns currently playing in NFI are, even though I know them as consistent and well-performing players, some of them great officers as well. Same problem as with LDK, most people can barely name 3 LDK'ers, because they spoke a different language and played in their own groups. F.ex. Fire^ and Carniv0l of LDK might have been as well known as Theam and Bluearmy, had they spoken better english (and not quit around rnd7, heh).
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 03:53   #84
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Re: Ancient history

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You don't even know who these people were, heh. There's barely been a alliance in PA history that hasn't had Finns as officers or HC, and Dragons drew together quite a few of them. It was the Finnish equivalent of LDK in that sense, also giving quite a few finns their first place to grow and prosper.

Heck, I bet you don't even know who half the finns currently playing in NFI are, even though I know them as consistent and well-performing players, some of them great officers as well. Same problem as with LDK, most people can barely name 3 LDK'ers, because they spoke a different language and played in their own groups. F.ex. Fire^ and Carniv0l of LDK might have been as well known as Theam and Bluearmy, had they spoken better english (and not quit around rnd7, heh).
Maybe because most of them never achieved anything to speak of*, much like a certain bigmouth located in helsinki who for sure has never read Art of war or anything related to it.


*In this game! who the **** cares about what you and your friends achieved in pia,farmville and what records you have on miniclip.com for that matter. Its all equally relevant to this game.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 07:26   #85
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Re: Ancient history

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Maybe because most of them never achieved anything to speak of*, much like a certain bigmouth located in helsinki who for sure has never read Art of war or anything related to it.


*In this game! who the **** cares about what you and your friends achieved in pia,farmville and what records you have on miniclip.com for that matter. Its all equally relevant to this game.
i would say a ldk hc until round 6-7ish archived something

then again, i do not agree that Dragons was ever on the same level as vts/xan/fury!
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 11:41   #86
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 11:45   #87
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Re: Ancient history

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i would say a ldk hc until round 6-7ish archived something
Although in the context of this thread archived is quite appropriate, reaching for achieved perhaps?
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 11:55   #88
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Re: Ancient history

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Although in the context of this thread archived is quite appropriate, reaching for achieved perhaps?
Hey, atleast he got most of the letter correct. It's not easy when you're an alcoholic.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 11:59   #89
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Re: Ancient history

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Heh, nice of you to bring that up. Again, the same few Sectioners. Although MrJ did show PIA developers how it was done pre-round (as he did with all weaknesses he found), and as nothing was done about them, he used them for his own gain. Again, this behaviour didn't really go over well within Dragons either, so it was marginalized quite quickly.

I played one round of that game, or half a round or so to be exact (I can't remember which one: but it was the one before round 13 in Planetarion), and the amount of ETA0 defences that were sent on dragons planets from across the universe was so massive (literally tens of planets each night would have been covered by defence fleets that weren't there on ETA4 but appeared later) that one could hardly ever justify calling a winner of such a game a power of anything else but just accessing the game database files.

While we (Hydra per se at that time, Omen in the other game, and Omen to be in Planetarion essentially) had a lot of friends at the eXilition side of the block, I believe the kind of animosity and sheer despise towards this kind of play (along with SilverBullet's lack of respect towards Section) and the expected Section relationships probably lead us to go with Wolfpack instead of eXilition that round (13. and yes, wolfpack was a mistake. it was a disaster of a misorganisation, really). Probably the vast majority of what was Omen core has been later on in eXilition, as stated by Wish. And speaking of respectable and honourable alliances by politics, Omen as an alliance (for when I was there) experienced a very comfortable mutually respectful relationship with eXilition.

That, added with the fact that the biggest stab of a knife in the back we ever dealt with came when dealing with 1up, so.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 12:44   #90
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Apprime?
They have been considered a superpower since the round 35 win which was the third win in 4 rounds. All the other criterias are met.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 13:23   #91
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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They have been considered a superpower since the round 35 win which was the third win in 4 rounds. All the other criterias are met.
In 10 rounds I predict the resident population will call "rock" as the ultimate superpower in Planetarion.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 14:26   #92
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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In 10 rounds I predict the resident population will call "rock" as the ultimate superpower in Planetarion.
In 10 rounds, I predict you are still using your energy on the forums to be someone who acts like he knows it all and can decide who has achieved what, instead of actually trying to achieve something yourself.

stfu internetkid.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 14:46   #93
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Re: Congratulations NFI

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
In 10 rounds, I predict you are still using your energy on the forums to be someone who acts like he knows it all and can decide who has achieved what, instead of actually trying to achieve something yourself.

stfu internetkid.
Dude you sure missed half the discussion on this very thread.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 22:49   #94
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Heck, I bet you don't even know who half the finns currently playing in NFI are, even though I know them as consistent and well-performing players, some of them great officers as well. Same problem as with LDK, most people can barely name 3 LDK'ers, because they spoke a different language and played in their own groups.
I'm sorry but what. LDK are widely considered one of the best alliances to have played PA. And they achieved this despite the vast majority of their members rarely playing outside their own group. Why? Because of their actual performances while playing planetarion.

Quote:
F.ex. Fire^ and Carniv0l of LDK might have been as well known as Theam and Bluearmy, had they spoken better english (and not quit around rnd7, heh).
Ignoring the fact I've already laughed at ministry like ten posts ago how can you make a point like this while claiming that there wasn't a drop off in quality at this time. I suppose the only two good players who quit pa after round 7 just happened to be two random finnish guys you knew. Another amazing coincidence to add to the list!
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 22:54   #95
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Valid point, alliances back then were bigger and faced more planets. However, the average planet was also weaker, and the favoured tactics were less about war and more about simply hitting people who were quite weak comparatively. Let's not forget, the original powerhouses were all known for being extremely political creatures with round-stagnating blocks (rnd2 Concordium, Legion and Fury rnd3, VeX, nd4/5/7 Furgion etc.). The level of organisation in Fury or Legion with 300 members and the average level of skill/commitment was most likely lower than that of later strong alliances.

It's not at all a foregone conclusion that a bigger uni was harder to play in than a smaller one is, nor that bigger alliances were inherently better run. The human mind simply sees the past in a more favourable light than the present, hence why every generation complains about how things were better before, even as great advances are made within every area of life.
I'd argue that alliances have probably got better (in terms of a trend in top alliances), but the game has got less hard. The logistics (and thus managing an alliance and co-ordinating everything) were a lot harder when the player and alliance base was bigger, as there was just far more to manage. Basically, being an HC was a shit job if you were doing your job properly because it would consume far too much of your time, as it required a lot more work.

Running an alliance of 250 men plus because you need to is very very difficult. Once the player base gets above a certain level, Planetarion becomes a complete different ball game in terms of the number of people you need to run an alliance effectively, the amount of time you need to put in and quite frankly, the stress levels being so stratospheric because you have so much to deal with. The most organised outfit I've been in is Ascendancy r30, but that's 50% JBG being great and 50% everyone being so hilariously competent that people started doing things autonomously. Then again had JBG been given Ascendancy in a game where the player base was 50k+ and Ascendancy needed to be larger, he would have almost certainly burned out playing as he was because no one can lead as he does for the distance. Although that's not to say he wouldn't be a brilliant leader in that era because he almost certainly would be and there's few players who you can say that about.

Legion were never really that organised, but had some supremely talented (albeit extremely selfish in some cases) players who when motivated could work together to pull them out of the fire, although their quality declined after r4. After r4 Sid built up Fury to be more or less like a machine and from my experience of being Wrath in r7, it all ran like clockwork, in a 250 man alliance. Xanadu from memory had some extremely tight knit groups who worked extremely well but I know little about their internal workings. From my own experience, Deus was a bit of a mess simply because our player base was so varied and had a command team who were working so hard we pretty much hated everything (including each other) but were saved by the fact that we able to look past that and remain committed. Even then it pretty much destroyed all of us by the end of the round. Planetarion used to be a relentless, crushing, almost debilitating experience if you were actively running an alliance. People used to quit mid-round because of burnout for goodness sake. If you're considering anything beyond say, r7 as 'harder' I'd like to see your definition.

Fury are easily the best alliance this game has seen, they played phenomenal Planetarion even when they lost in the most difficult rounds and I'm not sure why anyone is even vaguely interested in opening a debate about it. The challenge of logistics is far more difficult than any kind of military organisation and they managed to do both. Fury had a clear leadership, clear chain of command and members who while they sometimes weren't the smartest were at least regimented enough to know that they obeyed instructions or they were out the door. And that's easier said than done.

Give players a chance to play at that level of playerbase again they will do it better but until that happens I'd suggest you rethink your position. Quite simply in this day and age there is far less to manage for it to be considered anywhere near as difficult.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 23:21   #96
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I'm sorry but what. LDK are widely considered one of the best alliances to have played PA. And they achieved this despite the vast majority of their members rarely playing outside their own group. Why? Because of their actual performances while playing planetarion.

Ignoring the fact I've already laughed at ministry like ten posts ago how can you make a point like this while claiming that there wasn't a drop off in quality at this time. I suppose the only two good players who quit pa after round 7 just happened to be two random finnish guys you knew. Another amazing coincidence to add to the list!
Woah...lay off the juice man...it's hampering your ability to read...

And you do a wonderful job of validating my point when you call Fire^ and Carniv0l Finns, as both were ****ing LDK, Fire^ being LDK Military HC ffs. IN PLANETARION. See, just because the almighty JBG doesn't know the names, doesn't mean the person hasn't achieved something in PA. Because, *SHOCKER*, you were never invited to be part of said national groups!
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 23:21   #97
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Give players a chance to play at that level of playerbase again they will do it better but until that happens I'd suggest you rethink your position.
I'd imagine that the likelihood of sun_tzu actually rethinking his position is significantly lower than the likelihood of him clicking 'quote' and only actually reading your suggestion after replying to the rest of your post.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 23:28   #98
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
Woah...lay off the juice man...it's hampering your ability to read...

And you do a wonderful job of validating my point when you call Fire^ and Carniv0l Finns, as both were ****ing LDK, Fire^ being LDK Military HC ffs. IN PLANETARION. See, just because the almighty JBG doesn't know the names, doesn't mean the person hasn't achieved something in PA. Because, *SHOCKER*, you were never invited to be part of said national groups!
Sure, I was wrong there. The fact that I don't know various people in LDK hardly detracts from my point that LDK are considered a great alliance despite many of their most important players not being that well known outside the group though.

I actually have no idea what the first sentence in your post is in reference to. I'm going to assume you just chucked it in because it had been too long since your inferiority complex had manifested itself so dramatically. The crowds appreciate your efforts.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 23:32   #99
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Re: Ancient history

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...
I remember the burnouts perfectly well, I saw some good friends burn out, both in PA and PIA. Do realize PIA was 30min ticks, meaning even with less players around, the organizational challenge was still quite formidable.

As for Legion and Fury, Legion was mostly a shambles, and their skill was only high for their time, against later opponents these players wouldn't have stood out nearly as much. Fury was well organized, as was Xanadu, in part because they didn't try to manage the membership as a single group but through several smaller BG's/galgroups/wings. Yes, there was greater overhead with a 250-300man alliance, however there was also a far greater group of people from whom to draw on for officers. Assuming you organized the alliance well internally (Dragons used a rather similar internal organization as I gather Fury did), adding further divisions and officers isn't a great problem.
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Unread 6 Sep 2010, 23:42   #100
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Re: Ancient history

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Sure, I was wrong there. The fact that I don't know various people in LDK hardly detracts from my point that LDK are considered a great alliance despite many of their most important players not being that well known outside the group though.
You made a point of claiming none of the players/leaders who went into Dragons had achieved anything noteworthy before/since in PA, and I countered that simply because you did not know who they were, did not imply they were unproven entities, and made a point of drawing a parallel to LDK who have several people in similar positions.

Did you know who LordN was before he came to Asc with me rnd26? Did you know who I was before I joined Asc? Do names like MjrTorspo, Carnis, deza, longfellow, Mickemus, Tuhoaja, isotee meaning anything to you? Probably not.

(Every person named is either TK or Owage and a former officer or HC)
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