Closed by the law or by the mass??

[Obfuscator]

Originally posted by §pa¢e¢ook¦e
shipfarming = cheating .... and it was known.

I'm sure glad you chimed in with your helpful and insightful opinion. The fact that you haven't even offered an argument as to why you think he knew it was cheating, let alone proven it, makes it extremely unlikely that anyone will ever take your posts seriously, but by all means, keep telling yourself what you want to hear, and maybe eventually it will become true.

[Salomo]

it is impressive that cbk's post caused a five page thread when anyone with a little common sense can easily see that his argumentation is so weak that it could never support any claim...

[Paine]

Originally posted by Salomo
it is impressive that cbk's post caused a five page thread when anyone with a little common sense can easily see that his argumentation is so weak that it could never support any claim...

heh, the poor guy musta spent hours on it. Leave him be
(although you have made a very strong point)


Paine

[cbk100]

Originally posted by sirad
which planets co-ords would you like ? the first one, or the one after you relocated?

Well that is up to you. I don't remember any of them anyways.

If you want to blame me for giving a spot to another Madcow person then just go ahead. It was done in the interest of MadcowS and with the blessing from both some HCs and other officers. And well, you didn't report that I had changed planet, so you can't have been that much aggainst it since you say that you report all the sort of cheating that you find.

Yes I changed planet after a few days of playing and yes that was illegal and yes I could have been closed for it back then, but I didn't. There was a huge scaled changing of planets in the beginning...also inside MadcowS. Maybe you wasn't aware of it, but well that just says something about how close you were to your members.

Just go find your logs and lets have a debate about it. It wasn't a big secret that I had moved and a lot of ppl knows about it so it can't in any way hurt me whatever you find, but how good is it looking that you openly says that you as a HC doesn't fully work against cheating?

about time you realise that such a discussion with me would only hurt you and MadcowS while it doesn't mean **** to my name.

I think you should maybe have thoght twice b4 you began on this cause now it backfires... the history repeats itself. When do you learn?

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by zaquex
A fundamental flaw in the argumentation of this thread is that many fail to see the difference between laws and rules.

In either case its only in civilian cases u can argue you wherent informed.

If you try to argue with a judge you didnt know something was illegal he would tell you its your responsibility to know, you cant argue with the referee in a soccer game that you didnt know its not allowed to take up a pass with ur hands or kick down your opponent he still would punish you.

Another difference is, in the game, in my example the referee dont take the offender to court he delevers the penalty on the spot.

a game sports or leasure dont usually fall under either criminal or civilian court and therefore those arguments are not valid. If so i would procecute someone for stealing my roids, robbery is definatly not allowed outside the game.

Rabba did ofc not break any laws but he did cheat by breaking the rules of the game.

Try to read your post once again... how can you draw a line beteen farming in PA and rules in a soccer game?

First of all... you can't know that something is illegal unless its written down that its illegal and unless you have seen that its illegal. The rules says that if they change rules they will take effect when we(players) become aware of them... The only place that they can fully be sure that we are aware of them is to post the new rules in the manual or maybe in message of the day so unless they are doing that, they don't follow their own rules and then the outcome is pretty obvious.

Then back to your stupit line between soccer rules and farming in PA...

Its written down in soccer rules that its not allowed to touch the ball with your hands. IT IS IN THE RULES!!!... That farming is not allowed in PA was said in a CH. IT IS NOT IN THE RULES!!!

Do you see the difference?

There were no rules for farming so how can he break something that is not there?

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by Perfection
You are all retards really

HEHE that is the one of only 2 mistakes in your post.

I don't think you disagree with me in any kind of way, so to call me a retard is a bit harish I think.

The other is that PA is not continuarely growing... but well doesn't matter.

A nice post and good that you can back it up with your law studies. I'm studying economy so I don't know that much about law, but well to judge in this case is not really difficult since all it takes is some logic sence and a little law knowledge. Actualy I would even tend to say that to know about methods when working with law studies is more important to know about in this case than to know about the laws.

Combine the methods os law studying and some logic sence and you will get to the results that both you and I reached.

Btw. thanks a lot for confirming me in my doubtws if it was posible for PA to use clause 7 and just overrule all other laws...

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by oldtown
I cant believe this argument is still going on. Whether written or not, no one is fooled by a "i didnt know' argument. Farming isnt allowed and anyone of rank in an alliance knows it.

Further it is a good point on how it is applied, but seems to me the creators just told you how it will be applied. They are closing the account. Granted maybe in some cases they chose not to close, but every case is ndependent, maybe how the accused cooperates or to what extent the farming occured is all considered and thus a conclusion reached.

This closing is a message to everyone out there "DONT FARM'

did his farming hurt anyone? I would say ask anyone he attacked and took roids from due to the advantage of the fleet he designed.

I understand all his mates and alliance defending him as no one wants to see a friend in trouble...maybe his closing will make anyone out there thinking about doing it reconsider.

He isnt banned from PA hopefully he learns from this and so does everyone else and not allow it to happen again within their alliances.

Round 10 becomes a clean slate for him...just look at past unnamed people who have been caught repeatedly round after round..life goes on and so does PA


P.S. and the it isnt in the rules argument is geting old..it has been pointed out repeatedly there is a catch all clause giving them the right to close for whatever reason they choose. Stop ignoring that clause and selectively reading what you want to hear.

Read above and learn ta

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by Salomo
it is impressive that cbk's post caused a five page thread when anyone with a little common sense can easily see that his argumentation is so weak that it could never support any claim...

I see only a few serious posters in this thread who is actualy trying to back up what they are saying. myself, and since noone has quoted anything from my post to correct any mistakes in it I think my argumentation is pretty good. Remember that I did not just convince Prince that what I'm saying is right but also a whole lot of ppl in the PA comunity...
Then we have rob who came up with a very serious post with well supporting argumentation.
Finaly we have Perfection who is studying law and who came up with some very good and also metodicly(typo) right argumentation which also noone has been able to prove is false...

Then there are a few other, but most are the ones who support what I say about it is not right to close rabba.

I posted this thread cause I saw holes in the rules and untill now I have managed to keep in a fairly serious (considering normal AD standard) conversation and since this was posted the creators has chosen to do a lot of things that we argue should have been done long time ago...

I ofc. can't prove that creators made those changed mainly because of this post but I think its pretty obvious. Ask yourself how often someone achive to get PA HQ to make serious changes in the game because of a post here on AD and then afterwards ask you again if my argumentation is so weak as you claim...

but ofc. I can't say that your argumentation is weak....cause you don't have any....like most other posters here on AD you fail to back up what you are saying...

cbk

[zaquex]

Originally posted by cbk100
I see only a few serious posters in this thread who is actualy trying to back up what they are saying. myself, and since noone has quoted anything from my post to correct any mistakes in it I think my argumentation is pretty good. Remember that I did not just convince Prince that what I'm saying is right but also a whole lot of ppl in the PA comunity...
Then we have rob who came up with a very serious post with well supporting argumentation.
Finaly we have Perfection who is studying law and who came up with some very good and also metodicly(typo) right argumentation which also noone has been able to prove is false...

Then there are a few other, but most are the ones who support what I say about it is not right to close rabba.

I posted this thread cause I saw holes in the rules and untill now I have managed to keep in a fairly serious (considering normal AD standard) conversation and since this was posted the creators has chosen to do a lot of things that we argue should have been done long time ago...

I ofc. can't prove that creators made those changed mainly because of this post but I think its pretty obvious. Ask yourself how often someone achive to get PA HQ to make serious changes in the game because of a post here on AD and then afterwards ask you again if my argumentation is so weak as you claim...

but ofc. I can't say that your argumentation is weak....cause you don't have any....like most other posters here on AD you fail to back up what you are saying...

cbk

your a joke CBK as is ur post....

Originally posted by cbk100
hehe I have been closed for a few hours but it was a very obvious mistake and I got reopened again...
And no I'm by far affraid cause I'm playing by the book and has always done it.
cbk

lol @ CBK are you just lying to us or also to urself???

I clearly remember you rambling of your invulnarability due to having login details of an exessive amount of additional accounts...

Well maybe its just ur big mouth again...

Originally posted by cbk100
Well that is up to you. I don't remember any of them anyways.
If you want to blame me for giving a spot to another Madcow person then just go ahead. It was done in the interest of MadcowS and with the blessing from both some HCs and other officers. And well, you didn't report that I had changed planet, so you can't have been that much aggainst it since you say that you report all the sort of cheating that you find.
Yes I changed planet after a few days of playing and yes that was illegal and yes I could have been closed for it back then, but I didn't. There was a huge scaled changing of planets in the beginning...also inside MadcowS. Maybe you wasn't aware of it, but well that just says something about how close you were to your members.
Just go find your logs and lets have a debate about it. It wasn't a big secret that I had moved and a lot of ppl knows about it so it can't in any way hurt me whatever you find, but how good is it looking that you openly says that you as a HC doesn't fully work against cheating?
about time you realise that such a discussion with me would only hurt you and MadcowS while it doesn't mean **** to my name.
I think you should maybe have thoght twice b4 you began on this cause now it backfires... the history repeats itself. When do you learn?
cbk

dont think i need to say more....

[LordBlackheart2000]

Originally posted by N0VA

I am not suggesting that they have to call up each person and tell them that Ship Farming is now illegal, but they clearly did not place the relevant information in a location that a substantial number of players would be exposed to.

What a load of horse ****e, Creators Hour for one, Portal for 2, and Message of the Day for about 2 weeks. Some how i think the Message of the day is in a location That a Substantial Number of Players Would be exposed ie ALL of THEM.

And don't go for the crap it doesn't say anything about Ship Farming... It said about Farming ie all farming, He knew he was ship farming, if he was as stupid as all his followers seem to make him be, then the Creators can't be blaimed for his own Stupidity. And if he is so bloody Stupid as you lot trying to clear his name seem to think/say he is, WTF is he doing being a HC of ur allaince, infact any Alliance.

TBH You Followers have done more harm to him and his alliance than the possible damage caused by the actual act of ship farming.

Before hand, he was just thought of as a cheat, but now he's a Stupid Cheat with less intelligence than a pile of horse ****. Which in turn doesn't say much for the alliance in question now does it.

Cupelix

[zaquex]

Originally posted by LordBlackheart2000
What a load of horse ****e, Creators Hour for one, Portal for 2, and Message of the Day for about 2 weeks. Some how i think the Message of the day is in a location That a Substantial Number of Players Would be exposed ie ALL of THEM.

And don't go for the crap it doesn't say anything about Ship Farming... It said about Farming ie all farming, He knew he was ship farming, if he was as stupid as all his followers seem to make him be, then the Creators can't be blaimed for his own Stupidity. And if he is so bloody Stupid as you lot trying to clear his name seem to think/say he is, WTF is he doing being a HC of ur allaince, infact any Alliance.

TBH You Followers have done more harm to him and his alliance than the possible damage caused by the actual act of ship farming.

Before hand, he was just thought of as a cheat, but now he's a Stupid Cheat with less intelligence than a pile of horse ****. Which in turn doesn't say much for the alliance in question now does it.

Cupelix

seconded

[TrinTara]

Originally posted by cbk100
Try to read your post once again... how can you draw a line beteen farming in PA and rules in a soccer game?

First of all... you can't know that something is illegal unless its written down that its illegal and unless you have seen that its illegal. The rules says that if they change rules they will take effect when we(players) become aware of them... The only place that they can fully be sure that we are aware of them is to post the new rules in the manual or maybe in message of the day so unless they are doing that, they don't follow their own rules and then the outcome is pretty obvious.

Then back to your stupit line between soccer rules and farming in PA...

Its written down in soccer rules that its not allowed to touch the ball with your hands. IT IS IN THE RULES!!!... That farming is not allowed in PA was said in a CH. IT IS NOT IN THE RULES!!!

Do you see the difference?

There were no rules for farming so how can he break something that is not there?

cbk

I can find no rule that says its against the game rules for you to ddos my computer cbk and prevent me logging in to play the game. If you did and I could prove you did, I would expect the Creators to ban you EVEN IF ITS NOT WRITTEN DOWN IN THE RULES.

Since the EULA and the rules are in english and any dispute is to be determined in accordance with the laws of the UK, can I only be deleted for swearing, offensive language or pornography etc that is in english or would be considered to fit those definitions under UK law? Is the discretion of PA HQ now limited to what UK law would deem to fit within these definitions?

There are many instances where its possible to argue 'the letter of the law" but this is a game and the rules of a game are guidelines and are subjective.

Your legalistic and yes, simplistic attitude to rules does not belong in any game because you forget that what you are playing is a game. You pretend a respect for rules that is totally false since the only reason you ever read rules is to see how many ways you can find to avoid the intent behind them. I have no knowledge of your conduct this round, but in previous rounds you have repeatedly and flagrantly broken the basic rules under the premise that it only matters if you are caught.

Your campaign here has nothing to do with upholding the rules at all and is simply another game you are playing - an attempt to *win* and have a player re-instated. If this game has any future at all, I hope you fail.

Trin

[Sirad]

Originally posted by cbk100
Well that is up to you. I don't remember any of them anyways.

If you want to blame me for giving a spot to another Madcow person then just go ahead. It was done in the interest of MadcowS and with the blessing from both some HCs and other officers. And well, you didn't report that I had changed planet, so you can't have been that much aggainst it since you say that you report all the sort of cheating that you find.

Yes I changed planet after a few days of playing and yes that was illegal and yes I could have been closed for it back then, but I didn't. There was a huge scaled changing of planets in the beginning...also inside MadcowS. Maybe you wasn't aware of it, but well that just says something about how close you were to your members.

Just go find your logs and lets have a debate about it. It wasn't a big secret that I had moved and a lot of ppl knows about it so it can't in any way hurt me whatever you find, but how good is it looking that you openly says that you as a HC doesn't fully work against cheating?

about time you realise that such a discussion with me would only hurt you and MadcowS while it doesn't mean **** to my name.

I think you should maybe have thoght twice b4 you began on this cause now it backfires... the history repeats itself. When do you learn?

cbk

as zaq illustrated, with your comments you've posted yourself on this thread you admitted you lied basically,.

as for you saying I dident report you all I have to say is ROTFLMFAO ( I DONT LIKE YOU NEVER DID NEVER WILL IF I CAN GET YOU DELETED FOR CHEATING I SURE AS HELL WILL)
your huge scale of planet changeing in madcows was 5 cases (that i know about) which were reported (your first and 2nd planet included)

if some one accoutn shares and never tells me, how am I to know, heh and if i do know i report them simple. How close I am to my members, feel free to ask them once things for sure once the trash was thrown out it was a lot cleaner place.

It wasent a big secret you moved, ? hmm I dont recall you telling me and once it was found out you were promptly reported with all irc logs (which are not enough) that I had pretaining to your case.

when do I learn, I already have Argueing with you or debating is pointless, you fail to see the points anyone else has but continue on like a religious zealot for what you have either convinced yourself is right, or to get kicks out of it.

your arguments are flawed as so many people have pointed out, you take a arrogant attitude in that no one else can be right even when your prooven wrong,. I for one can only dream of debateing against some one of your calibre in future political debates when i go back home, when first we begin to decieve what a tangled web we weave

[Sirad]

Originally posted by cbk100
Back what you are saying up with some proof and we'll we can discuss it.... if you have it...

cbk

he did WITH YOUR OWN POSTS DUH!

[edit]oo coy, did you just delete your post or something ? [/edit]

[cbk100]

Originally posted by TrinTara
I can find no rule that says its against the game rules for you to ddos my computer cbk and prevent me logging in to play the game. If you did and I could prove you did, I would expect the Creators to ban you EVEN IF ITS NOT WRITTEN DOWN IN THE RULES.

Since the EULA and the rules are in english and any dispute is to be determined in accordance with the laws of the UK, can I only be deleted for swearing, offensive language or pornography etc that is in english or would be considered to fit those definitions under UK law? Is the discretion of PA HQ now limited to what UK law would deem to fit within these definitions?

There are many instances where its possible to argue 'the letter of the law" but this is a game and the rules of a game are guidelines and are subjective.

Your legalistic and yes, simplistic attitude to rules does not belong in any game because you forget that what you are playing is a game. You pretend a respect for rules that is totally false since the only reason you ever read rules is to see how many ways you can find to avoid the intent behind them. I have no knowledge of your conduct this round, but in previous rounds you have repeatedly and flagrantly broken the basic rules under the premise that it only matters if you are caught.

Your campaign here has nothing to do with upholding the rules at all and is simply another game you are playing - an attempt to *win* and have a player re-instated. If this game has any future at all, I hope you fail.

Trin

Ok lets put a few things on the table then when it absolutely have to be brought up... Yes I have account shared in some of the previous rounds, but hey....one of those accounts I have had access to is yours my dear Trin.

I doubt this will hurt me since it was in the previous rounds and since those closest to me knew about my previous actions allready, but what about MadcowS??? SiRad not dealing proberly with members he knows account shared... You who has actualy did it. me as former leader of MadCowS Officers... so 3 in the MadCowS top who isn't totaly clean if you dig a little in the past... Do you want me to continue, cause us 3 ppl in the MadcowS top aren't the only ones... BY FAR!!! and if you want me to list the ones I know about then just let me know.

and well to talk about ddos'ing or whatever such actions in this game is totaly crazy. If I hack your computer Jolt can't punish me for it... That will me judged outside the game and with no relations to it.... to compare it to that is simply too stupit of you and shows that you fail to know about even basic laws... nuf said....

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by sirad
he did WITH YOUR OWN POSTS DUH!

[edit]oo coy, did you just delete your post or something ? [/edit]

Yes I did cause I was making another post... and well just because I didn't tell you that I was moving planet in the beginning of last round doesn't mean that it was a big secret...

cbk

[Sirad]

SiRad not dealing proberly with members he knows account shared... You who has actualy did it.

1 wrong. 2, intersting I'd really like to see the rounds I cheated in then cbk, and heh I never stated I "I'm playing by the book and has always done it. " you did its your trial my friend not mine

[cbk100]

Originally posted by sirad
1 wrong. 2, intersting I'd really like to see the rounds I cheated in then cbk, and heh I never stated I "I'm playing by the book and has always done it. " you did its your trial my friend not mine

I never said you were cheating... read my post and you will find out that I said you weren't dealing with your members the way you should... since you said you knew that I changed account last round you should have kicked me out, but you didn't...

cbk

[cbk100]

and well this is not realy my trial since I have allready said that I account shared and so there is not much more to say about that... but what there is more to say about is the whole account sharing thing in MadcowS... don't you think that you have a moraly problem now? a few days you had a topic in #madcows which was dissing pack and rabba cause he had ship farmed, which isn't an illegal action... now we get stuff on the table telling that some of the MadcowS HCs and officers have account shared which is an illegal action... if you think WP have a big morality problem then I wonder how big you consider your own morality problem.

And about my morality... I can live with whatever ppl might say about my past.... but can MadCowS live with it?

cbk

[Sirad]

Originally posted by cbk100
I never said you were cheating... read my post and you will find out that I said you weren't dealing with your members the way you should... since you said you knew that I changed account last round you should have kicked me out, but you didn't...

cbk

I was waiting for the planet closure to avoid such a dsiplay as is commenplace for you to prefom on AD, it would have been much less time consumeing if they had of deleted you then what (this thread is a testament too) would have been a long drawn out pointless bitchfest which you revel in

[Sirad]

Originally posted by cbk100
and well this is not realy my trial since I have allready said that I account shared and so there is not much more to say about that... but what there is more to say about is the whole account sharing thing in MadcowS... don't you think that you have a moraly problem now? a few days you had a topic in #madcows which was dissing pack and rabba cause he had ship farmed, which isn't an illegal action... now we get stuff on the table telling that some of the MadcowS HCs and officers have account shared which is an illegal action... if you think WP have a big morality problem then I wonder how big you consider your own morality problem.

And about my morality... I can live with whatever ppl might say about my past.... but can MadCowS live with it?

cbk

we have no morality problem heh, anyone who is caught cheating is reported, just like you were,. when there planet is deleted they are promptly removed. (Madcows dosent give a fu ck about your past as its not a liveing entity and has no thought patterns ).


well at least you admited you lied after you said you allways play by the book, thanks for that it will bring a smile to my face everytime you spout more garbage,.

and to get back on track flameboy Farming is not legall
thus deletion is prudent

[cbk100]

Originally posted by sirad
we have no morality problem heh, anyone who is caught cheating is reported, just like you were,. when there planet is deleted they are promptly removed. (Madcows dosent give a fu ck about your past as its not a liveing entity and has no thought patterns ).


well at least you admited you lied after you said you allways play by the book, thanks for that it will bring a smile to my face everytime you spout more garbage,.

and to get back on track flameboy Farming is not legall
thus deletion is prudent

You really risked to have me as leader of MOs even though you tried to get me deleted??

Now that would look good!!! The HCs reporting one of their officers for account sharing and then afterwards promote him to head of MO, while they still hope he gets deleted. Seems a bit crazy.

Still you have a problem in MadcowS. Only 1 person(HC) in WP has "cheated" and you say that it hurts their morality and the way ppl look at WP as a whole... now then how much does it hurt MadCowS's loyality that at least 3 persons(2 HCs and 1 leader of officers) (AT LEAST) has cheated? Its quite some of a percentage of the MadCowS staff...

and yes you try to get back to the track cause you don't like this track we are running on now... too bad that you started it...

cbk

[Sirad]

Originally posted by cbk100
You really risked to have me as leader of MOs even though you tried to get me deleted??

Now that would look good!!! The HCs reporting one of their officers for account sharing and then afterwards promote him to head of MO, while they still hope he gets deleted. Seems a bit crazy.

Still you have a problem in MadcowS. Only 1 person(HC) in WP has "cheated" and you say that it hurts their morality and the way ppl look at WP as a whole... now then how much does it hurt MadCowS's loyality that at least 3 persons(2 HCs and 1 leader of officers) (AT LEAST) has cheated? Its quite some of a percentage of the MadCowS staff...

and yes you try to get back to the track cause you don't like this track we are running on now... too bad that you started it...

cbk

lol, if you want to continue i'm quite capable you reject and your claiming stuff on behalf of others, with no way of knowing thats cute, nice blanket statement, your memory fails I dident want you as member officer head i dident want you in Madcows, but we have a democratic system and I was outvoted so get it thru that thick head of yours OK ?.

madcows isnt on trial here bud, but your thickheadedness blinds you to things, you know its thinking of people like you playing this game that almost made me not play this round, its knowing that the playerbase will decrease yet again and the % of people like you who still play this game will increase next round that is one of the reasons I will not play.

i win either way **** head you started a useless thread which has A deviated so probley would be closed, B, your makeing blanket statements up the wazzuo with no way of prooveing anything, C you've already prooven yourself to be a lier on this thread in 1 if not more cases so why would anyone believe you ?

[zaquex]

Originally posted by cbk100
You really risked to have me as leader of MOs even though you tried to get me deleted??

Now that would look good!!! The HCs reporting one of their officers for account sharing and then afterwards promote him to head of MO, while they still hope he gets deleted. Seems a bit crazy.

Still you have a problem in MadcowS. Only 1 person(HC) in WP has "cheated" and you say that it hurts their morality and the way ppl look at WP as a whole... now then how much does it hurt MadCowS's loyality that at least 3 persons(2 HCs and 1 leader of officers) (AT LEAST) has cheated? Its quite some of a percentage of the MadCowS staff...

and yes you try to get back to the track cause you don't like this track we are running on now... too bad that you started it...

cbk

no wrong again CBK if u havent resigned or been kicked ur still a pack member that makes two - I already know u had problem with logic and honesty but not that ur problem also extended to math.

Difference is that the case with Rabba is from this round - and ive never read any statement about "always been playing by the book" from the other ppl you mentioned here.

Whats important is that they dont cheat today if they did the would be unsuitable as members of CowS. Any eventual suspicion about any Cow cheating would be reported. If PA find them guilty or if we can find enough proof, they would be removed as members. Sadly we dont have the same possibilities to prove suspicions as PA has so there might be some cases where we have to rely on PA to get them sorted out from the herd.

[TrinTara]

Originally posted by cbk100
Still you have a problem in MadcowS. Only 1 person(HC) in WP has "cheated" and you say that it hurts their morality and the way ppl look at WP as a whole... now then how much does it hurt MadCowS's loyality that at least 3 persons(2 HCs and 1 leader of officers) (AT LEAST) has cheated? Its quite some of a percentage of the MadCowS staff...

and yes you try to get back to the track cause you don't like this track we are running on now... too bad that you started it...

cbk

I'll address this issue personally simply to get rid of the red herring you are trying to wave to distract from the issues at hand.

At the end of round 5, I quit Fury and decided to quit PA quite disillusioned with the whole place but like many before me, deciding to quit and actually doing it were two quite different things. I let 'lady luck' decide in the end and applied for a random freebie planet.

Since I was in no alliance and not really committed to a galaxy or team, I didn't play the start of that round with my usual attitude at all and yes, I gave in to your persuasion and gave you my login details so you could recall a fleet for me. The next day I logged in to find that the fleet had not only been recalled but others sent out as a flak fleet for you. I came to my senses and changed my password and you never had access again.

That round I met the MadCows people and they re-ignited my interest in the game. When they decided to form a full alliance I happily joined them. MadCows has many members from all sorts of backgrounds, even some that were deleted in past rounds. We are not hypocrites who demand a perfect past, all we require of our members is that if they join, they MUST adhere to the rules in the future, both the written and unwritten rules.

Since we obviously do not judge people based solely on their past conduct, why then did your own conduct become an issue?

Because you stood up and proclaimed an innocence that was unwarrranted and therefore was relevant to the position you were arguing.

Originally posted by cbk100
hehe I have been closed for a few hours but it was a very obvious mistake and I got reopened again...

And no I'm by far affraid cause I'm playing by the book and has always done it.

cbk [/b]

within a page you were admitting that :-

Originally posted by cbk100
Yes I changed planet after a few days of playing and yes that was illegal and yes I could have been closed for it back then, but I didn't.
cbk [/b]

I'll let people draw their own conclusions as to what weight to place on your statements in future.

Now having dissected both mine and MadCows morality shall we return to the topic at hand?

Trin

[cbk100]

Originally posted by sirad
lol, if you want to continue i'm quite capable you reject and your claiming stuff on behalf of others, with no way of knowing thats cute, nice blanket statement, your memory fails I dident want you as member officer head i dident want you in Madcows, but we have a democratic system and I was outvoted so get it thru that thick head of yours OK ?.

madcows isnt on trial here bud, but your thickheadedness blinds you to things, you know its thinking of people like you playing this game that almost made me not play this round, its knowing that the playerbase will decrease yet again and the % of people like you who still play this game will increase next round that is one of the reasons I will not play.

i win either way **** head you started a useless thread which has A deviated so probley would be closed, B, your makeing blanket statements up the wazzuo with no way of prooveing anything, C you've already prooven yourself to be a lier on this thread in 1 if not more cases so why would anyone believe you ?

What exacly is it that I state without knowing about?? that they have cheated? well since its not allowed to give me their login and pass I know quite a big of what I'm talking about since that was what they did.

Ahhh you didn't want me as madcows?? funny that you as early as only a few months ago when I was about to join MadcowS talked about how a great addition to MadcowS that would be...

Well I didn't start the personal thing aggainst you in this thread, but it was you who started it aggainst me... If you don't like the outcome of this personal matter then you should probably not have started it... But you did and now its running... blame yourself instead of blaming me.

A useless thread which gets PA HQ to change basic rules in the game??? now that is most unlikely don't you think? if it was useless it would have been ignored and you would have seen no change in the rules or anything like that...

I don't care if ppl believe me or not but as long as they can't argure aggainst what I say, it can't be all that stupit what I'm saying.

cbk

[Sirad]

Originally posted by cbk100
What exacly is it that I state without knowing about?? that they have cheated? well since its not allowed to give me their login and pass I know quite a big of what I'm talking about since that was what they did.

Ahhh you didn't want me as madcows?? funny that you as early as only a few months ago when I was about to join MadcowS talked about how a great addition to MadcowS that would be...

Well I didn't start the personal thing aggainst you in this thread, but it was you who started it aggainst me... If you don't like the outcome of this personal matter then you should probably not have started it... But you did and now its running... blame yourself instead of blaming me.

A useless thread which gets PA HQ to change basic rules in the game??? now that is most unlikely don't you think? if it was useless it would have been ignored and you would have seen no change in the rules or anything like that...

I don't care if ppl believe me or not but as long as they can't argure aggainst what I say, it can't be all that stupit what I'm saying.

cbk

a simple reply to you, poke a pin in that big helium head of yours and let some of that air out its not good for your thought process.
as stated in earlier threads which you keep ignoreing let me say this AGAGIN "YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO BE ALLOWED BACK IN MADCOWS" i never started anyhting personal you lied I caught you you became personal congrads.

I'm done wasteing my time on your useless drivel cbk, you'll reply to this with more crap trying to instigate something again, and boost your ego a bit more, go for it, I'm ignoreing you here as well as irc once finish this.

[cbk100]

Originally posted by zaquex
no wrong again CBK if u havent resigned or been kicked ur still a pack member that makes two - I already know u had problem with logic and honesty but not that ur problem also extended to math.

Difference is that the case with Rabba is from this round - and ive never read any statement about "always been playing by the book" from the other ppl you mentioned here.

Whats important is that they dont cheat today if they did the would be unsuitable as members of CowS. Any eventual suspicion about any Cow cheating would be reported. If PA find them guilty or if we can find enough proof, they would be removed as members. Sadly we dont have the same possibilities to prove suspicions as PA has so there might be some cases where we have to rely on PA to get them sorted out from the herd.

I'm not an officer, HC or anything in WP. Just a normal peon. Ppl aren't under my comand and I'm not at all a person to mirror to the rest of WP.

MadcowS officers and HCs who has broken the rules is the picture that they will show to the comunity outside MadcowS.

Well you didn't delite me as member last round even though you perfectly well knew that I changed planet, so if you would do it now is in my oppinion doubtfull, but well I could just give you enough info to you about some of your ppl who is still cheating this round and then see what actions you would take, but well I'm not that kind of person.

cbk

[TrinTara]

Originally posted by cbk100
A useless thread which gets PA HQ to change basic rules in the game??? now that is most unlikely don't you think? if it was useless it would have been ignored and you would have seen no change in the rules or anything like that...

Well this is actually what the whole debate is about.

My view is that there has been no change in the basic rules of the game. The change was effected at the start of the round by Spinner announcing it and also adding it to the MOTD. The MOTD early in the round referred to both ship and roid farming and was there right back during the change race option period. I clearly recall several Zik debating whether they'd stay Zik or change with the new rules for the round.

The only 'change' that has taken place is that now the rule has also been posted on the portal.

Trin

[cbk100]

Originally posted by TrinTara
I'll address this issue personally simply to get rid of the red herring you are trying to wave to distract from the issues at hand.

At the end of round 5, I quit Fury and decided to quit PA quite disillusioned with the whole place but like many before me, deciding to quit and actually doing it were two quite different things. I let 'lady luck' decide in the end and applied for a random freebie planet.

Since I was in no alliance and not really committed to a galaxy or team, I didn't play the start of that round with my usual attitude at all and yes, I gave in to your persuasion and gave you my login details so you could recall a fleet for me. The next day I logged in to find that the fleet had not only been recalled but others sent out as a flak fleet for you. I came to my senses and changed my password and you never had access again.

That round I met the MadCows people and they re-ignited my interest in the game. When they decided to form a full alliance I happily joined them. MadCows has many members from all sorts of backgrounds, even some that were deleted in past rounds. We are not hypocrites who demand a perfect past, all we require of our members is that if they join, they MUST adhere to the rules in the future, both the written and unwritten rules.

Since we obviously do not judge people based solely on their past conduct, why then did your own conduct become an issue?

Because you stood up and proclaimed an innocence that was unwarrranted and therefore was relevant to the position you were arguing.



within a page you were admitting that :-



I'll let people draw their own conclusions as to what weight to place on your statements in future.

Now having dissected both mine and MadCows morality shall we return to the topic at hand?

Trin

AHHHH so the n0rty cbk pressed the little girl to give him her login details... this is a game and we are some 10k kilometres from eachother... its doubtfull how much under presure you could posibly be.

So you claim that I only had access to your account for 1 day? Funny since I send your fleet out a whole lot of times. Both on def missions for Deus and on attack missions. Weather I send it on attack missions as flak for my fleet I can't deny and never prove that I didn't, but from the numerous gal status screen shots I have I do not even see it send as a flak for me even once. But maybe you can go find us your proof for that instead of just accusing me for doing it... In fact I think I had access to your account for about 1 month... then I didn't have access in a few weeks and then I got access back...

cbk

[zaquex]

Originally posted by cbk100
I'm not an officer, HC or anything in WP. Just a normal peon. Ppl aren't under my comand and I'm not at all a person to mirror to the rest of WP.

MadcowS officers and HCs who has broken the rules is the picture that they will show to the comunity outside MadcowS.

Well you didn't delite me as member last round even though you perfectly well knew that I changed planet, so if you would do it now is in my oppinion doubtfull, but well I could just give you enough info to you about some of your ppl who is still cheating this round and then see what actions you would take, but well I'm not that kind of person.

cbk

well i know more wp hc's that have cheated than u then but im not making a fuzz of that couse it doesnt mather this round.

feel free to submit that info to me and to pa

submitting it to pa is prolly what i would do anyway

just dont try to look as a saint when we well know you aint

[TrinTara]

Originally posted by cbk100
So you claim that I only had access to your account for 1 day? Funny since I send your fleet out a whole lot of times. Both on def missions for Deus and on attack missions. Weather I send it on attack missions as flak for my fleet I can't deny and never prove that I didn't, but from the numerous gal status screen shots I have I do not even see it send as a flak for me even once. But maybe you can go find us your proof for that instead of just accusing me for doing it... In fact I think I had access to your account for about 1 month... then I didn't have access in a few weeks and then I got access back...

cbk

You have already shown how easily you lie. You are doing it again.

Trin

[cbk100]

Originally posted by sirad
a simple reply to you, poke a pin in that big helium head of yours and let some of that air out its not good for your thought process.
as stated in earlier threads which you keep ignoreing let me say this AGAGIN "YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO BE ALLOWED BACK IN MADCOWS" i never started anyhting personal you lied I caught you you became personal congrads.

I'm done wasteing my time on your useless drivel cbk, you'll reply to this with more crap trying to instigate something again, and boost your ego a bit more, go for it, I'm ignoreing you here as well as irc once finish this.

Try to look trough your post. You post as if you were a chile FFS!!! No argumentation, stupit flaiming and name calings and failure to remember what you have posted yourself. Try to look at the post which lead to this and then ask if it wasn't you who started to make this a personal matter ta.

So I was never to be allowed into MadcowS? LOL my logs show me some interesting conversatiosn with you in the beginning of this round and if you go look in your logs you will find out that I was as good as already a member at the time when it came to my knowledte that you blocked and I therefore couldn't join you. So its simply not true what you are saying.

And yes now you are getting out to a level where you jebrodise the good name of MadcowS because you started some personal accutions aggainst me. It was you who brought it here and if you want to back out its your choise...

cbk

[cbk100]

Originally posted by TrinTara
You have already shown how easily you lie. You are doing it again.

Trin

I would very much not like to go find logs and post more of them here on AD since its actualy not allowed...

<---- LOL I think I forgot somethign

but since its not allowed I'll not do it (sorry about that)

cbk

[TrinTara]

Originally posted by cbk100
So I was never to be allowed into MadcowS? LOL my logs show me some interesting conversatiosn with you in the beginning of this round and if you go look in your logs you will find out that I was as good as already a member at the time when it came to my knowledte that you blocked and I therefore couldn't join you. So its simply not true what you are saying.

We're cows cbk...only it was you being milked for info. Don't kid yourself. You weren't going to be allowed back.

Trin

[pig]

interestin read this but as a normal pe0n who never replies to posts etc i thought people might wanna know my opinion. Now im quite a good player, active lucky to be in a great gal etc, now last rnd, I was discussing tactics with my best m8 on how to grow, myself being zik I wanted the caths bws, he bing cathaar, I thought ill cap some of his bws. He then said too me "i dont believe in doing that" he didnt say it was illegal or anything it was only until recently when I was in my alliance channel and the topic of farmin came up, I assumed they were talking about roid farmin which they were until they moved onto the topic of ship farmin they were then talkin about the pros and cons of it. Then one said it was illegal, I wasnt the only one surprised and asking a few people in #planetarion an op I found out it was. Now im IRC active, read the boards, in an alliance, decent gal etc and that was the first proper time this rnd that I realised ship farming was illegal, I always thought that it was looked down upon the same way my friend looked down on it.

Now I think I represent a large chunk of the avg player so am I the only one who didnt know ship farmin was illegal? I personally dont think so. IMO rabba shud be reoppened, wrists slapped, take away some ships etc, but not take away his account.

BTW i didnt ship farm, i managed to get meh bws and vultures by attackin peeps

[cbk100]

Originally posted by TrinTara
We're cows cbk...only it was you being milked for info. Don't kid yourself. You weren't going to be allowed back.

Trin

hehe I think you should try to see the logs between SiRad and myself and untill you see those I don't think you can comment in this matter, cause of those its pretty obvious that I was to be let back in.

cbk

[N0VA]

Originally posted by pig
interestin read this but as a normal pe0n who never replies to posts etc i thought people might wanna know my opinion. Now im quite a good player, active lucky to be in a great gal etc, now last rnd, I was discussing tactics with my best m8 on how to grow, myself being zik I wanted the caths bws, he bing cathaar, I thought ill cap some of his bws. He then said too me "i dont believe in doing that" he didnt say it was illegal or anything it was only until recently when I was in my alliance channel and the topic of farmin came up, I assumed they were talking about roid farmin which they were until they moved onto the topic of ship farmin they were then talkin about the pros and cons of it. Then one said it was illegal, I wasnt the only one surprised and asking a few people in #planetarion an op I found out it was. Now im IRC active, read the boards, in an alliance, decent gal etc and that was the first proper time this rnd that I realised ship farming was illegal, I always thought that it was looked down upon the same way my friend looked down on it.

Now I think I represent a large chunk of the avg player so am I the only one who didnt know ship farmin was illegal? I personally dont think so. IMO rabba shud be reoppened, wrists slapped, take away some ships etc, but not take away his account.

BTW i didnt ship farm, i managed to get meh bws and vultures by attackin peeps

Well said Pig. I appreciate your openness and honesty on this controversial issue. Hopefully the creators will listen to enough testimonials such as yours and reopen Rabbagast.

[cbk100]

I don't think creators are reading this thread anymore. As far as I know they gave up reading it yesterday, beside a few special posts that I said that they most likely wanted to listen to.

I think a lot of good points of views has been put forth in this thread so its a shame if they dont read all of the conversation(beside the personal issues with me, Trin, zaq and SiRad).

cbk

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by N0VA
Well said Pig. I appreciate your openness and honesty on this controversial issue. Hopefully the creators will listen to enough testimonials such as yours and reopen Rabbagast.

The day Prince opens Rabbagast, people will scream for his blood (and Zeus to make a comeback). Rabbagast knew he cheated, he got cought, end of story.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
The day Prince opens Rabbagast, people will scream for his blood (and Zeus to make a comeback). Rabbagast knew he cheated, he got cought, end of story.

Aye.

[N0VA]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
The day Prince opens Rabbagast, people will scream for his blood (and Zeus to make a comeback). Rabbagast knew he cheated, he got cought, end of story.

What is most amusing about this entire situation is that most people actually would not scream for his blood - especially after they are informed that Rabba did not asteroid farm.

Since I've been wearing the [OpenRabba] tag lately, I have gotten into numerous conversations with various people, from casual players to alliance HC's. The majority of the people I have spoken with were under the assumption that Rabbagast was caught Asteroid Farming - NOT Ship Farming. Of those, a decent number made a remark to the effect of "Oh, I did not know that was illegal".

If the creators reopen Rabbagast, there will be an outcry across Alliance Discussion - but that is because this is the den of the loudest and most close minded players around. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Alliance Discussions largely for that reason - but what is said on these boards does not reflect the will of the majority of the game.

The majority of the game includes people like Pig, who may casually read the forums, and only occasionally post. As long as these people support or accept the decision to reopen Rabbagast, then PA crew is definitely making the correct decision.

[lokken]

Reading up on my contract law I'd say Perfection is probably correct, as players in general probably cant grasp what the rules exactly are, therefore need the rules staring them in the face them when you think of a 'reasonable player'. I expected more of them at the time, setting a higher standard for what a PA player would be expected to do.

I actually think the blanket clause might be able to apply though, if you can argue if it exists purely for the practical operation of the game (allowing deletion of cheats) rather than to put the consumer at a disadvantage. It's only ever really been used for that purpose, hence not really an unfair contract term. It wouldn't work here because the reasonable player wouldn't be able to work out what rule was what because they didn't set out the rules in a way that a reasonable PA player would understand.

I still support the deletion though, considering how experienced Rabba is and the need to keep the top 10 as clean as possible from breaking a rule that all experienced players should know.

[§pa¢e¢ook¦e]

Originally posted by Pin
to all u guys talking about presendence!!!!!

In round 7 i was a Zik player, i remember in a CH Spinner got asked question:

Is ship donation allowed?

he answered: I can see nothing wrong in that, so yes it is.

This burnt into my mind, im at school now so dont have the loggs here, but if some1 care to check theyre CH loggs, or get the old one posted on the portal im sure this will make a presedence.

So until last night when i heard about Rabba i was sure it was allowed, and no im not a Zik this round

So twats, all u that been screaming and saying that this have been known rule, HOW THE FCK CAN U SAY THAT????? Spinner have said it was allowed, and Prince changed his mind this round in an CH!!!!!

I cant see in ANYWAY this can be just to close him for this. Hell if i had been a zik this round i would prolly had farmed Ships as i was sure it was allowed ( i read teh user agreement before every round).

And if u ask if im not to active in comunity so i dont get to read everything, well ive played since round1 and normally attend every CH, but this 1 was my GF birthday so didnt see dreadnaugth asking the question and didnt read the log on the portal (have now tough )

heh if you are up to date before the round started the question was asked if shipfarming was illegal .. the answer to that was yes its illegal hence i havent been in the CH but i know it coz we got to talk bout it in galchan and the line where it said was pasted.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all that say shipfarming isnt something you can profit from or isnt immorale to do your WRONG you can certainly gain over shipfarming in score thus it gives you an advantage that gets exploited so yer i dont disagree with the fact it is illegal, in r7 it was very annoying when a top gal gained few milliones due to shipfarming.

[oldtown]

Originally posted by lokken
Reading up on my contract law I'd say Perfection is probably correct, as players in general probably cant grasp what the rules exactly are, therefore need the rules staring them in the face them when you think of a 'reasonable player'. I expected more of them at the time, setting a higher standard for what a PA player would be expected to do.

I actually think the blanket clause might be able to apply though, if you can argue if it exists purely for the practical operation of the game (allowing deletion of cheats) rather than to put the consumer at a disadvantage. It's only ever really been used for that purpose, hence not really an unfair contract term. It wouldn't work here because the reasonable player wouldn't be able to work out what rule was what because they didn't set out the rules in a way that a reasonable PA player would understand.

I still support the deletion though, considering how experienced Rabba is and the need to keep the top 10 as clean as possible from breaking a rule that all experienced players should know.

Well at best an argument can be made that Rabba is entitled to his $10.00 back. The creators can close any account they like based on the user agreement they have certain obligations. If somehow there is a loophole or they didnt word it right maybe a refund is in order, but that in no way changes the fact that he FARMED.

This game has always been full of people trying to get advantages through loopholes etc, it is about time the creators put their foot down and try to make the game a level battleground. All this legal mumbo jumbo is cute and entertaining but is quite frankly utter bs.

It was decision he made to farm and he was caught...now he has next round to look forward too. as for his fee great refund it prorated...as for whether they had right and did the correct thing closing........YES

[lokken]

Originally posted by oldtown
bleh

No way, I wouldn't give a refund. He's an experienced player and he cheated and broke the rules. In terms of breaking the rules, I don't see any choice but deleting him. A majority of the players don't stand for people getting away with cheating. I certainly don't stand for it.

I wouldn't give him anything personally, it would only serve to promote cheating. Whether he chooses to play again is his decision.

[N0VA]

Originally posted by lokken
No way, I wouldn't give a refund. He's an experienced player and he cheated and broke the rules. In terms of breaking the rules, I don't see any choice but deleting him. A majority of the players don't stand for people getting away with cheating. I certainly don't stand for it.

I wouldn't give him anything personally, it would only serve to promote cheating. Whether he chooses to play again is his decision.

Before you start debating how to handle the deletion - it might be wise to prove Rabbagast's guilt first. Our key argument has yet to be refuted - and saying "he is cheet4r! delete him" does not count.

If he is deleted, then it has the net effect of saying that rules can be made and players can be retroactively punished for them. My what a crazy game that would be - alliances would have to start predicting what might be declared illegal, and make sure they avoid those activities.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by N0VA
Since I've been wearing the [OpenRabba] tag lately, I have gotten into numerous conversations with various people, from casual players to alliance HC's. The majority of the people I have spoken with were under the assumption that Rabbagast was caught Asteroid Farming - NOT Ship Farming. Of those, a decent number made a remark to the effect of "Oh, I did not know that was illegal".

heh, I havent been taking this game even remotly serious since r4, and I dont have a planet this round, and I knew it was Illegal to ship farm. Should I assume a) that the people who didnt know this is complete idiots, or b) that they generally dont listen to the rules and cheat whatever the current rules are

sorry, I cant help to smile.

[Obfuscator]

Originally posted by G.K Zhukov
heh, I havent been taking this game even remotly serious since r4, and I dont have a planet this round, and I knew it was Illegal to ship farm. Should I assume a) that the people who didnt know this is complete idiots, or b) that they generally dont listen to the rules and cheat whatever the current rules are

sorry, I cant help to smile.

Perhaps you shouldn't assume a or b, and should assume instead that you are in-fact, better informed than the average PA-player. You claim to know an awful lot about the game and its status, and in the next breath claim that you don't take it at all seriously. Surely you can see the inconsistency here.

[TehVader]

Zhukov is my favourite newbie

Love you too