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Unread 3 Feb 2012, 03:20   #251
Tiamat101
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

I wanted to make a counter for fr/de vs Bs so I made voyager init 1 so it was faster than guardian/roach but it targets at t2. And viper was to be slower than both beetle and spider.
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Unread 8 Feb 2012, 03:35   #252
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

its just made BS really shit to play as voyagers are so OP with the low init
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Unread 8 Feb 2012, 20:15   #253
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Yes but they target at t2, which against etd bs is 88% effective. If you were to build your fleets right it wouldn't matter. But since no one has decided to go ter cr the round was able to just mass up on widows and voyagers instead of gryphone's and buccaneer. So we have a good old fashion hug fest all round long.

Because of all the emp around there is not enough fleets actually doing combat so everyone preserves value, in a war game that has no actual losses then yeah it's going to be shit. On top of that the political situation is just crap Ally's ganging up to bash xVx instead of Ult. So essentially we have 5 full allys only 1 of which is going for the round win.
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Unread 9 Feb 2012, 04:43   #254
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Honestly, both Bs fleets hugging Fr/De is a flaw.
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Unread 9 Feb 2012, 08:31   #255
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

tbh too much hug in general - by that I mean stats on huggers are a bit op, so people will eventually pick them for fleet setup (widow, voyager)

Combined with the fact that etd and cath are the best attk races in uni, and the obvious pairing in CO/BS - made uni full of hugs.

Stats could have prevented that - I guess you did learn something of doing the stats tiamat.
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Unread 9 Feb 2012, 08:54   #256
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Looking back at it i'd have adjusted the etd co so it wasn't so easy to pair cat/etd. But that isnt the problem. Because everyone decided that zik/ter/xan are not attack worthy they picked emp based attack fleets. And when i mean everyone I mean the top 3 alliances.
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Unread 9 Feb 2012, 13:08   #257
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

I generally feel all EMP ships are overpowered with the viper as a prime example... an above 100% eff on T2... really?
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Unread 9 Feb 2012, 16:31   #258
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
I generally feel all EMP ships are overpowered with the viper as a prime example... an above 100% eff on T2... really?
Viper's efficiency on t2 has nothing to do with their strength this round. 110% is mediocre at best.
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Unread 10 Feb 2012, 09:06   #259
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Cath is actual shite, the problem is that there are so many of em, hugging is always win in large numbers :-)

Cath eff's are actual lower than usual rounds where hugging are "win"

But when the top allies has 20-25% caths and no incs, they ofc get a huge value lead.
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Unread 19 Feb 2012, 08:54   #260
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
Cath is actual shite
Disagree. Cath was given everything this round: init, salvage, research, targetting, guns, etc... What's not to like?!
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Unread 19 Feb 2012, 10:38   #261
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by tulsa View Post
Disagree. Cath was given everything this round: init, salvage, research, targetting, guns, etc... What's not to like?!
They are always given that - thatīs the point. And earlier rounds have given them even more.

Caths downside is the fact that everyone can roid them - and thus, caths are typically subject of loads of incs once we hit tick 7-800. This round however we got so many picking cath, due to ally strats and uni eta availability, something we already discussed (maybe also the anti DE issue).

Basically meaning that cath are facing way less incs, as other caths can pick whatever target they like, on gal raids and in wars.
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Unread 20 Feb 2012, 01:17   #262
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by Killeah View Post
They are always given that - thatīs the point.
They are always given those advantages, but they're not always quite this strong. Not only are they the only race with 3 t3 ships, but theirs are all useful ships. 4 guns on the viper is rediculous - it should take more than one co to stop any one fr/de. And the least expensive ship in the game is the spider, which is insane with 2 guns and init 1.

When was the last multi targetting round where the t50 wasn't composed primarily of cath co?
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Unread 20 Feb 2012, 02:59   #263
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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Originally Posted by tulsa View Post
When was the last multi targetting round where the t50 wasn't composed primarily of cath co?
R41(mix of Ter/Cath/Etd and Fi/Co/Cr/Bs), when the #1 ally was mostly Fi/Co based, and the #2 ally was mostly Cr/Bs (granted with huge numbers of fi/co for faking purposes)

R39, Dominated by full EMP ETD Co.

R38, dominated by ETD Fr/De, largely based on EMP tho.

cant rlly remember r40... but think it was a mix of zik and cath...
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Unread 20 Feb 2012, 05:53   #264
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

R43 was even more recent, having only 8 in top 50.

I guess I should be expecting people here to do no research before throwing out biased statements by now.
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Unread 20 Feb 2012, 06:42   #265
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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I guess I should be expecting people here to do no research before throwing out biased statements by now.
I wasn't sure where to look, thanks to you both for the info. Where did it come from?
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Unread 20 Feb 2012, 07:54   #266
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Cath eff's aren't even that amazing this round, Yes they have good #'s vs Vshaark and spirit but i made that on purpose. As vs everything else they are mid-high 150's on the t1's. And most of them are around 100 for t2. The problem isn't cath #'s. Because they didnt get the init strength, spiders beats cat co, and voyager beats cat bs. So I don't really understand where thats coming from.

The problem is because of the political situation with xvx and ult. Since both allys went a co/bs strat they have alot of Cath, and since no one else possess good attack strength no one is losing value.
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Unread 20 Feb 2012, 08:23   #267
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

tulsa, http://beta.planetarion.com/history/history.php is pretty nice.
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Unread 1 Mar 2012, 08:54   #268
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Tulsa: Usual caths has eff's around 175% when cath have good rounds, it's way less this round.

I think it's balanced stats this round, except the voy, and it's a problem that de/bs anti-cr/bs is targeting each class - but only cuz of ally's race %

The main problem is as Tia stated the politics... which has been the worst ever.

Fang = stupid pussies
Ult = smarter pussies
xvx = pussies
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Unread 1 Mar 2012, 10:38   #269
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

no, its because the game is broken.. nothing interesting can happen, since nothing is changed.. it just happened that this round ppl got more bored as they usually get and it died faster..

i know that to some this already gets annoying (me posting in every thread about the need to change something totally), but im still gonna do that in a hope that someone that actually has a say, in what planetarion should do or should not do, notices it and thinks about it :P
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Unread 1 Mar 2012, 21:00   #270
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

Stats makers should never blame the results of their stats on "game politics." Politics don't determine whether stats are balanced, defensive or offensive in nature.

I agree the stats were fairly well balanced, but they are defensive in nature, making it very hard to attack up the value chain. In my opinion this is a failing, as it makes it very hard to take down the top players/alliances. But I understand there is a group of players who love to fortress, and hate any set of stats that doesn't allow them to easily do that. This is what has happened this round, and it has made the round boring, regardless of the politics at play. The simple fact is that after tick 500 or so it became very hard to land, and other than crashes, mistakes, and cheating there has been very little movement in the ranks ever since, partially because many players have given up playing this round, precisely because they can't land... so why bother trying?

So "meh" to defensive stats, no matter how well balanced.
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Unread 2 Mar 2012, 18:47   #271
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

I'm someone who has always loved MT stats and 'fortressing' with 3 ships when possible, but it has become very clear to me recently that these things are toxic to the game. What makes the game fun is not covering 10 incoming fleets with 3 defensive ones (although I'm sure I'd get a giggle out of it); it's attacking and capping roids.

I'm very much pro-ST now, or MT with minimal t3s and only a handful of t2s. This round has only confirmed this, it was incredibly hard to land solo (it was worse because I went Etd Co (I had pods)) and the game got boring even faster than usual.
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Unread 2 Mar 2012, 22:39   #272
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Re: R45 Stats Discussion

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\What makes the game fun is not covering 10 incoming fleets with 3 defensive ones (although I'm sure I'd get a giggle out of it); it's attacking and capping roids.\
I couldn't have said it better myself, and this is exactly why I prefer attack oriented stats. People generally don't give up when they get roided, they give up after many nights of trying unsuccessfully to land an attack.
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