Round 34 Stats

[lince]

yes. ETD BS ruled on attacks, just because all uni except Apprime/p3nguins and some CT, went fi/co. And simply Tycoon eat FR/DE for breakfast. And also pillager was an awesome ship for defense, as efficient as thief. Just not that good as attacking as the thief (check the post above)

[LukeyLove]

I didnt really enjoy the stats or maybe the way the majority of the universe tried to play the stats - either way I am eager for serious changes next round and would be against any mere tweaking.

If however only a tweak were to be done:
1) Beetles would need to shoot CO first or increase xan fi's emp res.
2) Increased armour of Spirits/Widows - or change their attack to shoot BS first (otherwise weaken Tycoons)
3) Lower thief/pillager armour
4) Reduce xan fr emp res but increase their attack

[JonnyBGood]

Offering once more in case pateam want to use them!

[Paisley]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Offering once more in case pateam want to use them!

Certainly worth testing out

[isildurx]

I'm pro JBG's stats being given a chance! Saves us from alot of rushed statsmaking after christmas aswell!

[Machado]

I was a fan of jbg's last set, possibly liking this one as much. Am pro!

[LukeyLove]

Definately worth testing, at first glance they look good!

[Makhil]

Originally Posted by LukeyLove

Definately worth testing, at first glance they look good!

At first glance too many EMP ships in the ETD fleet, especially the DE EMP only fortress fleet. Getting some Ter DE with the Vendor (only ETD steal ship) would be nice though, and as Cath target only DE as T2 you can see an interesting option there.
The best with JBG's stats is you can quickly find a way to play your favourite race... quite the opposite of the last 2 rounds sets.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Makhil

At first glance too many EMP ships in the ETD fleet, especially the DE EMP only fortress fleet.

Just as a quick point, as I'm not arsed debating them unless pateam say they'll go with them, but you missed the lancer in the etd de fleet it seems.

[Makhil]

At second glance i can see the Lancer
Just to be sure, the merchant is really FR or is it just a mistake ?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Makhil

At second glance i can see the Lancer
Just to be sure, the merchant is really FR or is it just a mistake ?

Yeah, that was a mistake, corrected it for good measure.



Also, given that I suggested moving back to single targeting as part of my "big changes" thread I thought I'd throw out a stats version with that.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Jg&output=html

It's been a fair while since I even looked at single-targeting so I decreased it to 2 pod classes as 3 was never done beforehand. I feel it's roughly balanced but I'd appreciate input! In reality it might be a better idea to pick a fairly balanced set of stats from a previous round. That said I just had a look and given that only post r19 (zik value gain stealing removed) stats are relevant there doesn't really appear to be a fairly even t100 split. Round 22 probably looks the best of the bunch on the pa wiki (not that the stats are saved there though so **** knows if anyone has them).

[Light]

I'd like to try out a single target round again, just as its something different

[Alki]

Plus you could solo attack in a single target round, as opposed to needing 100 teamup partners to share 200 roids.

[Cowch]

Anything that helps solo attack is good with me. Here is the idea I posted elsewhere, but this seems to be the place where the stats discussion is taking place.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...20VLQKBQ&gid=1

(Obviously not a workable set of stats!) I bet others have better ideas than that, but I thought I would share it so that those who know what they are talking about might get an idea. I don't know my ass from a hole in wall in this department.

[Monroe]

The return of solo attacks being viable would be great in my opinion. The constant teaming up really messes with my game strategy.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Monroe

The return of solo attacks being viable would be great in my opinion. The constant teaming up really messes with my game strategy.

That's a pretty bad reason, right there.

[BaasB]

I pray for more solo attacks!

i hate sharing roids between 8 people to actually get trough somewhere...

[HaNzI]

Originally Posted by BaasB

I pray for more solo attacks!

i hate sharing roids between 8 people to actually get trough somewhere...

Attack bigger targets

[Alki]

yeah because capping 500 roids between 8 people is still awesome, also it takes more than 8 people to get through on a 2k roider nowadays

[Monroe]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

That's a pretty bad reason, right there.

It's as good a reason as any other I've seen here so far. But yes otherwise you're right.

[JonnyBGood]

My proposal, in line with my other thread on the suggestions forum, would be use these stats and either no out of gal def or no salvage for next round (both would be hilarious but thinking about it it'd probably be a step too far).

[Makhil]

no out of gal def, single targeting (meaning having to build 6 ships at least...). Where do i sign ?

[Light]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

My proposal, in line with my other thread on the suggestions forum, would be use these stats and either no out of gal def or no salvage for next round (both would be hilarious but thinking about it it'd probably be a step too far).

or single targetting and properly random galaxys.

[BaasB]

PAteam SHOULD take JBG's stats and they SHOULD let us vote for the multi- or single-targeting shipstats.

People will then have all holiday to test stats in beta, which should be final like 1 week before round start, and then players can find what they want to play, instead of 2 days before tickstart...

I suppose next round starts friday 8 Jan? That means we have 3 weeks from now, lets get it going!

[isildurx]

Agreed.

[Makhil]

Agreed even if i believe that
- beta is not for testing stats... bcalc is enough.
- voting is bad

[JonnyBGood]

I pmed my stats to appoco yesterday so it's up to pateam now!

[Lockhead]

Sounds interesting.

I am in favour of the "back to ppl attack alone instead of 100 fleets on one planet" thingi.


1 ship targettting might be better for that, I fully agree.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Light

or single targetting and properly random galaxys.

I don't really object to random gals either yeah, I do think 2 "significant" changes are needed in order to refresh things a bit. I would obviously like the chance to adjust either stats set depending on what changes are being made though!

[Wishmaster]

I d like 100% random gal.
Dont think any other major change would be needed to get some change.
Could set gals big enough, and remove oog defence.

[Makhil]

by OOG defense you mean only non allied planets defending outside their gal or do you include planets from the same alliance ?
In the first case 100% random is fine, in the second case 100% private is needed.

[_Kila_]

After a brief look at the single-targetting stats, it looks pretty exciting.
I love how when we had single targetting people were shouting for multi targetting again, and it's not that good

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by _Kila_

After a brief look at the single-targetting stats, it looks pretty exciting.
I love how when we had single targetting people were shouting for multi targetting again, and it's not that good

Most people just like some variety. Like how in the American presidential elections they change from Democrat to Republican every once in a while even though it really makes no difference.

[Shev]

No way man. Barack Obama will change the world. See, he even has a Nobel Peace Prize, my belief is vindicated.

[Cowch]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Most people just like some variety.

I agree with JBG. It's not about whether single-targeting or multi-targeting is the best system for ever and ever. It's about making a few significant changes from round to round so that the strategies change.

Stats and the composition/size of galaxies should change enough every round so that it actually feels like a different round. Right now I think we are playing round 32v3.0

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Cowch

Anything that helps solo attack is good with me. Here is the idea I posted elsewhere, but this seems to be the place where the stats discussion is taking place.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...20VLQKBQ&gid=1

(Obviously not a workable set of stats!) I bet others have better ideas than that, but I thought I would share it so that those who know what they are talking about might get an idea. I don't know my ass from a hole in wall in this department.

Terran pod should definitely be called 'Hungry Hippo'.

EDIT: also, could just have most ships have a single target. Multitargeting ships would then be 'better'. Could also be used as a way to balance out cathaargh. 2-3 EMP ships getting 2 targets each?

[Makhil]

Originally Posted by Gate

Terran pod should definitely be called 'Hungry Hippo'

Best suggestion I've seen in a long time.

[DragonKing]

well i spent some time playing with stats and came up with a set so thought i would share along with my reasoning

my aim for stats,

Ter big heavy armoured slow expensive
Xan fast cheep low armoured heavy firepower
Cat fast peacefuly medium armour few kill ships
Zik few good kill ships, plenty of options good armour slow
Etd mixed bag big ships cover everything but not as well

Ter weak vrs fi co (cat xan)
xan weak vrs cr (cat zik)
cat weak vrs fr (xan ter)
Zik weak vrs bs (etd ter)
etd weak vrs de (etd zik)

Ter Fr and BS attack fleets
Xan Fi and Fr attack fleets
Cat Co and Cr atatck fleets
Zik De and Cr attack fleets
Etd De and BS attack fleets

possibly looking at making it so that each race as most of fleet in one class and one ship in another such as xan Fi FI Co

no race should be able to build 3 ships plus pods and manage (possible exception of zik if massive steals)
alot more single targeting and no T3 at all

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...mp;output=html

[HaNzI]

Originally Posted by DragonKing

well i spent some time playing with stats and came up with a set so thought i would share along with my reasoning

my aim for stats,

Ter big heavy armoured slow expensive
Xan fast cheep low armoured heavy firepower
Cat fast peacefuly medium armour few kill ships
Zik few good kill ships, plenty of options good armour slow
Etd mixed bag big ships cover everything but not as well

Ter weak vrs fi co (cat xan)
xan weak vrs cr (cat zik)
cat weak vrs fr (xan ter)
Zik weak vrs bs (etd ter)
etd weak vrs de (etd zik)

Ter Fr and BS attack fleets
Xan Fi and Fr attack fleets
Cat Co and Cr atatck fleets
Zik De and Cr attack fleets
Etd De and BS attack fleets

Save yourself the trouble. This is round 27, and those stats were awesome so lets use them instead.

[vex`]

DragonKing your stats look GOOD! Looking forward to try them in Beta!

spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...mp;output=html

[M0RPH3US]

here is another suggestion

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AW...mbWtxZG4&hl=en

[JonnyBGood]

Just a few things for people to bear in mind seeing as everyone likes throwing out stats here all of a sudden. With multi-targeting and emp unless all your emp ships fire in the same patterns (that means not having fr/de and de/fr) you're going to have difficulty balancing them. That's just how emp targeting works unfortunately, with the e/r system there's just no way around it. Secondly decreasing the number of multi-targeting ships is very different from going back to single-targeting, all the first one does is increase the value of ships with secondary targets. Either way I'm not entirely sure what the stats suggestions posted here are aiming at?

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Either way I'm not entirely sure what the stats suggestions posted here are aiming at?

well i can only speak for myself, my set is nothing special compared to your single targeting set, which i think could help with the stagnation of the game btw.
cause i really think we need some change in PA to keep ppl interested

however if we dont go back to single targeting, my set is aimed at having a round where not 80% of the universe are going the fi/co path

thats mainly the only aim it has

[Light]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I don't really object to random gals either yeah, I do think 2 "significant" changes are needed in order to refresh things a bit. I would obviously like the chance to adjust either stats set depending on what changes are being made though!

It doesnt even need to be 100% random just not fake random that it is now.
Option 1: 100% random, no buddy packs, no exiling. Downside is that friends cant play together. Shuffle at tick 12.
Option 2: Buddy Packs allowing 2 people to end up together, 100% random and no exiling. Shuffle at tick 12. This would allow you to play with a friend and wouldnt make buddy packs the deciding factor in awesome galaxys.
Option 3: Buddy Packs allowing 5 people to end up together, 100% random and no exiling.

The only thing i would be wondering about, is weither to bring back the disband galaxy option to save those extremly crap galaxys from ruining a active planets round.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Most people just like some variety. Like how in the American presidential elections they change from Democrat to Republican every once in a while even though it really makes no difference.

I would like single targetting for one round, for a change. However, i'd be inclined to vote for multi targetting again after.

[isildurx]

I'm also pro bringing back single targetting for a round.

[Makhil]

-Random or not is not the kind of significant change that PA needs. They do it or not, it doesn't matter.
-Stats is definitely needed, but expected as every round. Just hoping we can have stats that don't force people to gang up on small targets to havea chance of success.
-That leaves something very significant to change: removing allies, removing out of gal def, that kind of thing...

[vex`]

The beauty of this game is that opens minds to a world of math, statistics and strategy, which provides a wealth of multiple possibilities on how to play the game. Limiting its diversity and restricting the creativity for our players, allows for the game to get boring, predictable and frustrating which as a result kills the game.
All these to say, single targeting - not a good idea in my oppinion!

We need to attract players and keep them interested and lets provide our players with a rich and powerful stats where they can be creative, where any race or class could roid any race, ... that any race could WIN

Reality is, only ppl with no jobs, or with few life responsibilities can play this game properly. We need to make it more friendly to most ages and more open to different personalities than the anti social and unemployed. (Allowing racist and sexual innuendos as part of the "PA's culture" "Brownies" targets a few of the many good possibilities of new players that get turned off by this behavior.) <-- i though i added that referring to some of my friends ofc anyways... moving on!

We need more n00bs and we need to keep them interested or PA is toasted forever!

So far, I still prefer DragonKing's stats

[Linkie]

Single-targetting isn't restricting diversity and creativity.

[vex`]

Originally Posted by Linkie

Single-targetting isn't restricting diversity and creativity.

Yes it is! Will make it more difficult to fake considering the fact that there can only be one ship of one class ;/

Rather be mesmerized figuring out fleet compositions having a bigger risk factor rather than simplifying it.

[JonnyBGood]

In general the differences between single and multi-targeting arise over the ease of attacking versus defence. It is relatively easy to see what to attack with single-targeting and it's a bit more intuitive. Multi-targeting leads to defence dominated, roid holding type of rounds where it's extremely difficult to win a round on the offensive. Your value is more effective being held back and controlled than being unleashed because the roids you're able to gain with your fleet are nearly always less than the roids you can hold with them. Due to the primacy of value the more conservative fleet types (if you don't know what I mean by this just think of the fleet that's furthest away from xp whoring as possible) are rewarded. I don't think this is a bad thing per se, I've quite enjoyed it for a number of rounds now and I was pretty ****ing good at it too! Switching back to single-targeting really just opens up a few new (old) avenues and closes off some new ones.

I mean let's be honest here, last round was fi/co dominated (for whatever reason) and largely consisted of beetles plus either pillagers or thieves owning the shit out of everything else. Bottom line there wasn't exactly a vast and spontaneous display of creativity in fleet composition in response to the stats last round heh. Obviously this can happen but the fact it didn't last round sort of shows it's not just down to multi vs single targeting.

Originally Posted by vex`

Yes it is! Will make it more difficult to fake considering the fact that there can only be one ship of one class ;/

Rather be mesmerized figuring out fleet compositions having a bigger risk factor rather than simplifying it.

This is just outright untrue. There was a lot more faking in single-targeting rounds than there has been recently. What killed faking was how there emerged a load of default covers where you'd send fr/de class def versus a cr/bs attack and just happen to cover all classes by virtue of the ships sent. Under single-targeting you have to actually decide to cover versus other classes and this is what makes faking far more viable.

Especially with something like zik where if you cap pods in all the different classes a dc may potentially have to cover versus 6 different fleets.