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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 19:59   #1
Light
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Light's random suggestions

After 1 round of playing, here's my suggestions from the perspective of someone re-learning the game:

1. Add Galaxy Score into the XP Formula. Its pretty stupid that you get the same amount of XP for landing on a 2mil planet in a 100mil galaxy or a 2mil planet in a 5mil galaxy. This will encourage more attacks on the larger galaxys and slightly discourage attacking the smaller galaxys with only 1-2 large players in.

2. Auto Disband galaxys when they go below a certain value/member count. At the moment we have galaxys like 6:1 with only 6 people in it, which is extremly bad for those players who are exiling/disbanding there galaxys and landing in there.

3. For the last level of quests, make them 'achievements' which are extremly hard to get. Like.. get over 2000 roids, have a total of 100+ launched fleets, etc. So even the expert players have something to aim for in the quests and dont all get completed by everyone.

4. As the round goes on, lower the cost of initiating roids. This encourages extremly low-level players to keep playing as they can easily re-coup there losses when they get roided (were talking -500 roids) and wont effect the larger players at all (except for maybe more roids in the uni).

5. Give the forums an Arcade!
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 20:59   #2
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
After 1 round of playing, here's my suggestions from the perspective of someone re-learning the game:

1. Add Galaxy Score into the XP Formula. Its pretty stupid that you get the same amount of XP for landing on a 2mil planet in a 100mil galaxy or a 2mil planet in a 5mil galaxy. This will encourage more attacks on the larger galaxys and slightly discourage attacking the smaller galaxys with only 1-2 large players in.
Larger galaxies don't get attacked because
a) the alliance doesnt have the firepower (1:10) or
b) the gal is fenced to hell (5:3)

i guess having a bigger pay score pay off would kind of help, but if you cant roid big gals now, chances are gaining a little score isnt going to increase your military strength

Quote:
3. For the last level of quests, make them 'achievements' which are extremly hard to get. Like.. get over 2000 roids, have a total of 100+ launched fleets, etc. So even the expert players have something to aim for in the quests and dont all get completed by everyone.
What would you want to give out as rewards? Surely the player having 2k roids is an advantage enough over most of the other players?

Quote:
4. As the round goes on, lower the cost of initiating roids. This encourages extremly low-level players to keep playing as they can easily re-coup there losses when they get roided (were talking -500 roids) and wont effect the larger players at all (except for maybe more roids in the uni).
Having the players able to re-init roids they lost at a faster and cheaper rate is only going to result in them spending all their res on roids and getting raped the next day. I dont think making the newer players lazy and fat is going to help much

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5. Give the forums an Arcade!
Yes please
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 21:08   #3
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Re: Light's random suggestions

attacking larger gals is reward enough as they are fat and value rich meaning good roids and score can be gained
auto disbanding small gals or being able to request a disband from pa-team when it goes below a certain number would be a good idea

having more quests would be good but they need to be something that will show a new player things that they need to help them learn the game

roid costs should stay the same , if you get roided badly you can always do an "elviz" and bottom feed to increase your roid count

there is an arcade dunno if it works anymore though
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 21:32   #4
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Re: Light's random suggestions

[quote=Light;3160417]

1. Interesting idea, might be worth considering, I'll pass the info onto the dev side and we'll discuss it.

2. As you can set the disband vote, I don't feel that this one is an issue, if new folks get exiled in within 48 hours they will be exiled anyway.

3. This idea is already under consideration for future implementation, we'll see!

4. This is a bad idea for the ideas already mentioned. Basically more roids means more at the top not more at the bottom leading to even a greater resource disparity between the top players and the bottom players, which makes it even more difficult to "climb the ladder" and get ahead once you fall behind.

5. Not sure what happened to this, there used to be one...
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 22:02   #5
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Re: Light's random suggestions

[quote=Monroe;3160426]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post

2. As you can set the disband vote, I don't feel that this one is an issue, if new folks get exiled in within 48 hours they will be exiled anyway.
This is utterly flawed, hence i agree with Light!
To get an galaxy to disband there need to be a few actives left in the gal.
Ive several times been in such an galaxy and it always end up with me exiling on because of inactivity to set the vote ingal.
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 22:23   #6
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Re: Light's random suggestions

No, you only need 1 active in a galaxy to make it disband. 25% has to vote NO in order to overturn it. On the rest of the ideas I agree with Monroe, although I don't see much value in the first one.
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 22:28   #7
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Re: Light's random suggestions

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
No, you only need 1 active in a galaxy to make it disband. 25% has to vote NO in order to overturn it. On the rest of the ideas I agree with Monroe, although I don't see much value in the first one.
My bad
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 23:31   #8
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
Larger galaxies don't get attacked because
a) the alliance doesnt have the firepower (1:10) or
b) the gal is fenced to hell (5:3)

i guess having a bigger pay score pay off would kind of help, but if you cant roid big gals now, chances are gaining a little score isnt going to increase your military strength
Its not really to get the smaller galaxys/alliances to attack the big people but encouragement for the bigger galaxys/alliances to attack each other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
What would you want to give out as rewards? Surely the player having 2k roids is an advantage enough over most of the other players?
Hmm, didnt really think of that lol. Could simply be something trivial, like 5 free Wave Distruptors (or Amps) which at that stage in the game doesnt add much but it still gives something for reaching it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
Having the players able to re-init roids they lost at a faster and cheaper rate is only going to result in them spending all their res on roids and getting raped the next day. I dont think making the newer players lazy and fat is going to help much
It keeps them in the game and allows them to rebuild fast though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
4. This is a bad idea for the ideas already mentioned. Basically more roids means more at the top not more at the bottom leading to even a greater resource disparity between the top players and the bottom players, which makes it even more difficult to "climb the ladder" and get ahead once you fall behind.
Not really, remember the change in low roid init's would mean only lowbies would benefit and at the stage where it they start getting really cheap to rebuild.. the top players would be way out of there score range.. meaning the lower people benefit first from getting roids back cheaply, then the medium players benefit by having more targets, then finally the top players benefit by there being more medium players with roids. Everyone benefits in the long run, just the top players benefit last (after the medium players have got the rewards).
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Unread 8 Dec 2008, 23:32   #9
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Actually, I like 1. I do.

gzambo's argument can also be applied to individual players: attacking big planets could be argued to be reward in itself. But hitting big galaxies is much, much harder than picking off a single big planet in a small gal.

Ofc, I used to often end up being one of the bigger planets in a smaller galaxy, so I'm biased (except for a round I wasn't active when I exiled into a fun t10 galaxy. Sigh.)
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 00:02   #10
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Re: Light's random suggestions

1. Best and most simple form I have seen is fleet morale used on SpM, attacking smaller people cost u fleet moral and if it gets too low, you lose ships or the generals refuse to launch on target. Unless you pay to lower their standards
We allready do have an xp system, to reward attacking bigger people, but that wont ofc stop from attacking easy roids also... so with some sort of fleet morale system we could limit the noob roiding.

I however support your first option aswell.

I repeat myself in here, but galaxies aint built and organized just to get disbanded. I agree the bashed ones could be transfered along with them who can still protect them and allow them re-grow. But hell people are disbanding galaxies for punny reasons.

U should be able to choose between different quests, which will help u do scans, or scan resistance, or become a brutal killer. Quests should be helpfull for all group of players/people. Perhaps even tied to your goverment choises.

In overall I like pretty much all of your ideas.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 02:03   #11
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Not really...Everyone benefits in the long run, just the top players benefit last (after the medium players have got the rewards).
The largest players benefit more in proportion because they are more accelerated. There really isn't much lag between the time the low end builds the roids and the top end steals them. It only takes a couple of days, and since roids rarely flow back down the pyramid in a meaningful way this idea proportionally helps the big player more. One idea I've suggested to get around this it to decrease the cost of the first 300 or so roids in certain governments. This violates the KISS rule, but would allow smaller players to recover quickly without dramatically impacting the roid flow. There is an entire thread on PA economics on one of the private boards, if you would like to read through it PM me on netgamers and I'll paste it to you. In there we discuss among other things why decreasing the costs of roids is a bad thing.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 02:32   #12
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
One idea I've suggested to get around this it to decrease the cost of the first 300 or so roids in certain governments. This violates the KISS rule, but would allow smaller players to recover quickly without dramatically impacting the roid flow.
That wont really help much, unless you put it in big writing on the goverments page that new players should choose those types of goverment and make those goverments have bonuses aimed at lower end players.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 05:40   #13
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Its not really to get the smaller galaxys/alliances to attack the big people but encouragement for the bigger galaxys/alliances to attack each other.
So, your reasoning for this is to enable big players to gain even more score from attacking? If you're big motivation for this is to have bigger planets attack bigger planets, i would suggest raising the bash limit, not giving high scoring players even more score from something they should already be doing in the first place


Quote:
Hmm, didnt really think of that lol. Could simply be something trivial, like 5 free Wave Distruptors (or Amps) which at that stage in the game doesnt add much but it still gives something for reaching it.
5 free constructions is a pretty intense rewards for getting some roids, especially if its later in the game when people already have 50-60 cons (i say later in the game since most players dont have 2k roids until pt5-600)

Quote:
It keeps them in the game and allows them to rebuild fast though.
No, it just diverts them from spending their res on what they actually need (ships). Spending all your money on roids is not going to help you 'get back in the game' after losing some of them. Its just going to make you the same juicy target you were when you got incs, but this time you wont any res to spend.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 10:20   #14
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
So, your reasoning for this is to enable big players to gain even more score from attacking? If you're big motivation for this is to have bigger planets attack bigger planets, i would suggest raising the bash limit, not giving high scoring players even more score from something they should already be doing in the first place
It wouldnt give the bigger planets much/any increase, as they'd be in big planets/galaxys themselves (and obviously planet score would still have a bigger impact on XP than galaxy). Its mainly just for the smaller planets who do teamups on them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
5 free constructions is a pretty intense rewards for getting some roids, especially if its later in the game when people already have 50-60 cons (i say later in the game since most players dont have 2k roids until pt5-600)
It was just an example, could be 2 :P


Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_posi View Post
No, it just diverts them from spending their res on what they actually need (ships). Spending all your money on roids is not going to help you 'get back in the game' after losing some of them. Its just going to make you the same juicy target you were when you got incs, but this time you wont any res to spend.
Were talking (-500 roids or -300 roids).. Thats hardly a really juicy target, most late signups even try to go to 1k+ roids as they know they're below the bash limit.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 11:25   #15
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Re: Light's random suggestions

It has to be said more roids is generally a good thing imo.
However Covert ops are atm the only thing that there is that subverts the current food-chain, if we were to have a greater roid flow, thus a greater accelerator at the top, since there might be the prospect of top ppl on 5k+ which hasn't happened very often recently, we really need another wealth creator at the bottom as well as roids; which is not quite as annoying as cov-ops... i just dont kno what yet!
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 11:35   #16
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Refs? Core mining research?
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 11:41   #17
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Re: Light's random suggestions

yeh to a certain extent they do, but the big players can have them too, so while they have a proportionally greater impact on the smaller players they dont really help in balancing out any greater gap that would occur if there were more roids in the universe.

perhaps alliance taxes should hit the rich harder!
tho I cant see why alliances would want to do this and they can already hand out donations to smaller members in their alliance.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 12:08   #18
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Maybe instead of % increase in mining.. the increase is static/dynamic.

I.e.
Goverment mining bonus = 100 x TickNumber

Meaning everyone gets the same amount of bonuses, regardless of roids and population bonus would be an increase in the planet mining bonus.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 12:10   #19
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
yeh to a certain extent they do, but the big players can have them too, so while they have a proportionally greater impact on the smaller players they dont really help in balancing out any greater gap that would occur if there were more roids in the universe.
If you're a small planet without an alliance, it's much more attractive to get refs than FCs, because refs help small planets get more value, without simultaneously making them a better target. This reduces (though it doesn't close it, nor should it) the gap between big active planets and small inactive ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
perhaps alliance taxes should hit the rich harder!
tho I cant see why alliances would want to do this and they can already hand out donations to smaller members in their alliance.
They wouldn't because bigger planets can be more productive with the resources they get than smaller planets. They attack more (thus gain more roids), they defend more (thus preserve more roids) and quite regularly they are also the people who lead your alliance. (I realise this suggestion was meant in jest, I'm just making sure no one is actually going to take it seriously, as we've seen before.)
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 12:15   #20
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Re: Light's random suggestions

U missed his point, it was that they dont help in evening things out if the roid supply is increased (as they already exist!), we are not trying to narrow the gap per se, simply to compensate for one of the disadvantages inherent in lights suggestion of cheaper re-initiating
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 12:22   #21
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Re: Light's random suggestions

of course that compensation might simply be having mines or core resources produce a bit more.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 12:23   #22
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Also thinking along the lines of Galaxy Score XP:
XP = (Galaxy Score / Average Galaxy Score) x Current Planet XP Formula

Which would mean, if the top galaxy was 100mil, Average Galaxy score was 40mil, and the bottom galaxy was 10mil..
Hitting the top galaxy would give you: 2.5 x Planet XP
Hitting a galaxy the average galaxy would give you: 1 x Planet XP
Hitting the worst galaxy in the game would give you: 0.25 x Planet XP
(Planet XP = the current XP formula).

or, to give the players in worse galaxys a better XP system.. we could have the formula take the attackers galaxy score as the bench mark instead of the average galaxy score. Thus meaning the crappy galaxys get much more XP on there attacks than the good galaxys and the good galaxys have to attack other good galaxys in order to get valuable XP.

Last edited by Light; 9 Dec 2008 at 12:31.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 12:49   #23
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Re: Light's random suggestions

It would make more sense to use attacker galaxy score (counted? real? or value?) versus target galaxy score, just like the current XP formula does with planets. This would also give an advantage to big planets in small galaxies, as opposed to just a disadvantage to planets (big and small) in small galaxies).

I don't think this change will have that much of an impact*. On the other hand, the XP formula is already far beyond KISS, adding in even more variables is not going to make things much worse.



_____
* This is because big galaxies contain the overwhelming majority of top planets. Some data to support my claim:
Top10 planets in a top10 / top20 / top30 galaxy: 8 / 10 / 10 (I counted Reese as being in a top10 galaxy)
Top25 planets in a top10 / top20 / top30 galaxy: 21 / 25 / 25
Top50 planets in a top10 / top20 / top30 galaxy: 36 / 45 / 49 (1 in 38th)
Top100 planets in a top10 / top20 / top30 galaxy: 61 / 81 / 93
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 13:12   #24
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Re: Light's random suggestions

wow those statistics show pretty starkly how many good players exile out of small galaxies, sure you cant make T10 or T25 when in a galaxy below rank 30th but T50 and certainly T100 is not to difficult, as I have done it

and if nubs like me can...

surely that shows exactly why the formula is needed? (as well as why it wont make too much impact) so that more people might stay in bad galaxies to be able to xp to the top by hitting bigger galaxies!
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 13:49   #25
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
wow those statistics show pretty starkly how many good players exile out of small galaxies
That is a bad conclusion. Good players are what makes galaxies good (they contribute lots of value and are generally more active). In any case it's not really relevant.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 9 Dec 2008 at 13:56.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 14:46   #26
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Re: Light's random suggestions

while I agree with the statement that good players players make good galaxies a good player on his/her own does not necessarily... and these single active players will almost always exile.

I was not saying how many exile as I have no idea, I would take a guess at about 25% but it could be as low as 5 or 10% the effect is the same, with the better players generally abandoning smaller innactive gals (which as you say they should stick around in to pull the galaxy up). A change in the xp system just might encourage those active players to stay in order to get better xp (especially those who play that way anyway) and hence make a better galaxy and hopefully encourage the small new players to stay and play another round.

I am probably deluded in this hope tho

on the other hand light's auto disband idea is completely against this, I would have been most disappointed if the small galaxies I have been in had disbanded automatically when I had put so much work into them even when they did fail.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 17:00   #27
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
on the other hand light's auto disband idea is completely against this, I would have been most disappointed if the small galaxies I have been in had disbanded automatically when I had put so much work into them even when they did fail.
The Auto-Disband doesnt have to be strict, it just needs to stop very small galaxys from staying. For example, take alook at 6:1.. its got 6 planets in it, 3 of them are new signups and by the looks of 2 more, they also look new. The galaxy should of auto-disbanded when you look at the score of it.. 4.3mil real score with 6 planets, 1 of which is 3.6mil.
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Unread 9 Dec 2008, 17:37   #28
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Size doesn't matter!1
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Dec 2008, 10:21   #29
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Re: Light's random suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
The Auto-Disband doesnt have to be strict, it just needs to stop very small galaxys from staying. For example, take alook at 6:1.. its got 6 planets in it, 3 of them are new signups and by the looks of 2 more, they also look new. The galaxy should of auto-disbanded when you look at the score of it.. 4.3mil real score with 6 planets, 1 of which is 3.6mil.

Aslong as there are proper other ways to disallow such noob roiding. Or make it costy atleast. There aint no need to disband galaxys, whom knows if they are friends and so on (even thats not likely)
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