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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 16:59   #651
Seth Mace
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Well having read that log, I still think DLR should be considered an alliance, infact there should be no debating it. For me as a spectator to the #1 race, I dont think I would enjoy cheering ND on to #1 because of the DLR stuff. Infact, i would feel dirty to do so :/

Come on TGV/ SubH!
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 17:07   #652
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Sorry - I was udner the impression is was ND defending Gate who is DLR.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 17:29   #653
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Sorry - I was udner the impression is was ND defending Gate who is DLR.
That is what I thought as well, but it is clearly not what Assassin dug up. And it is after all his choice to define the rules, but I still think he's doing a mistake there.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 17:32   #654
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Its a funny thread... from the topic beeing Angels/NewDawn it have become ND/DLR, heh.

Anyway, sinze the log should clear things up this thread should be closed or? It certanly have gone off topic from originale title.

So much negativ said and done here. Including mazz taking my green dot
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 17:34   #655
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK.:.VJ
Its a funny thread... from the topic beeing Angels/NewDawn it have become ND/DLR, heh.

Anyway, sinze the log should clear things up this thread should be closed or? It certanly have gone off topic from originale title.

So much negativ said here.
What in gods name are you talking about?

This has been, by far, the best thread on AD in a long long time with lot's of emotive and well thought out posting. So far this thread should have a place in history
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 17:50   #656
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

mazzelaar: im amazed over you. You must hate me or having some serious personal grudges for giving me and making another one give me red dots, you arse



This whole thread is so freaking out of line, changing subjects. And when things are cleared up people just keep on talking over the same thing.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:11   #657
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Is nobody using Cluster NAPs anymore to defend making use of the reduced eta? I still saw that happen last round. Bit silly if random nubs helping eachother in clusterchans (regardless of any tags) get suspended. Isnt it?
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:46   #658
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Clusters need to be re-integrated into the game, they've been a casualty of the last, heh, several rounds. Although it's a valid point, it really has no place in Round 16 of Planetarion.

That is, unless you setup a cluster channel and could demonstrate that actually it was a cluster alliance at work (defending you) and not a universal one. You'd be laughed at, but you'd probably see the round out.

(No need to test this out people :|)
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:49   #659
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Ok, i've started tearing out my hair in fustration here. I dont really get the problem with incidents. Ofc, the log doesnt say how many "incidents" there have been with DLR defending ND but from the rules it is clearly stated:
Quote:
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.
I have some views about this incredibly stupid no out of alliance defence idea.

It goes like this: If you are attacking together with 20 alliances to bash a target, that's okay. But if you get defence from someone outside your galaxy/alliance tag, then its a crime that is punishable by closing.

What have the game become? A game where we dont care what people do in attacks but close people who are trying to defend their friends and the people they have gotten to know over time, not just in their own alliance but in other alliances etc.

What the rules now clearly indicate is that its totally fine for alot of alliances to join in to bash one target (usually the top 1 alliance, but can also be used to kill off smaller alliances) but defending gets people closed. It gives me a foul taste in my mouth now as defence is virtually being viewed upon with scrutiny and the multies run over our accounts with a fine brush and close thoose bastard defenders who keep defending others..
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 18:53   #660
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

I agree with Kargool.

I guess it's not just snowing here, but in hell too
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 19:05   #661
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

on a random subject change. I am curious why DLR actually left ND in the first place? Considering the position most DLR members had in ND could they not just do whatever they fancied in ND? Was ND not good enough for you guys?

In my experience of DLR I find them overly elitist and if they do return for ND (which I doubt) it would be interesting to see how the average ND members would take to them. Also, how do they plan on developing from a BG to an alliance if thats their plan?

I am just curious if Troll or Grog could clarify exactly what they wished to achieve from 'breaking off'.


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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 19:14   #662
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torz
I am just curious if Troll or Grog could clarify exactly what they wished to achieve from 'breaking off'.
I obviously can't speak for DLR, but the main reasons they left ND just for this round are:
1. They wanted to have an easier time of it - less defending and getting up in the middle of the night
2. They wanted to try out being XP whores
3. They didn't want to get wound up in alliance politics (seems they've been dragged into some anyway )
4. They fancied just 3 fleet attacking all the time for a change
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 19:14   #663
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK.:.VJ
This whole thread is so freaking out of line, changing subjects. And when things are cleared up people just keep on talking over the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torz
on a random subject change. I am curious why DLR actually left ND in the first place? Considering the position most DLR members had in ND could they not just do whatever they fancied in ND? Was ND not good enough for you guys?

In my experience of DLR I find them overly elitist and if they do return for ND (which I doubt) it would be interesting to see how the average ND members would take to them. Also, how do they plan on developing from a BG to an alliance if thats their plan?

I am just curious if Troll or Grog could clarify exactly what they wished to achieve from 'breaking off'.
I`m pretty sure Grog statet why if you read thro all the pages. If i remember right they broke of for this round to try on there own, play the way they wantet and having a more relaxed play to this game.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 19:30   #664
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND LOG
[01/03-06:23:40:10] <Assassin> to me atm i see 15 members, who were all ND once before, sharing your channels, retalling on people who attack you and they attack targets you hit. To me this looks like you have bassicaly got 15 guys you couldnt fit in tag, put them into a tag and there supporting you
Far be it for me to speak for Assassin but by my reading of the log posted by ND it would seem he meant DLR defending ND through the use of retal on attacking planets.

The incident that raised this was indeed Gate [DLR] receiving defence from members unknown in [ND] for a 400BS fleetcatch.

Assassin has made his opinion known on the matter, it seemed to me to be a very fair one. If he were to take a different view what would stop 1up from tagging all the to 7up? It would, in essence, be a return to the days before tags gave eta bonuses. Alliances are meant to play with limits enforced by a restricted tag. The reasons for this are numerous and were discussed at length when this was introduced.

For the record, if Grog and Troll say that they are not functioning as ND support then I believe them. My only concern was that a failure by the MH team to make a firm statement here would have opened the game to possible abuse by others. That would now seem to be firmly out of the equation, which means we can all move on.

edit:- inserted log quote
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 19:59   #665
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

I hope this get hardcoded into the game for next round so people can't defend out of tag and galaxy. Then I won't need to read page up and down about the issue.. my eyes my eyes
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:02   #666
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I hope this get hardcoded into the game for next round so people can't defend out of tag and galaxy. Then I won't need to read page up and down about the issue.. my eyes my eyes
permission to be smug and proved right captain

As for Torz's question and to put it in Torz's language, they wanted to dick about with XP.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:17   #667
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadar
I hope this get hardcoded into the game for next round so people can't defend out of tag and galaxy. Then I won't need to read page up and down about the issue.. my eyes my eyes
That wouldn't be any fun. No longer being able to defend friends just because they're not in the same ally.

Quote:
"Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy."
This means the DLR would have to be DEDICATED to supporting ND. Which clearly they are not.

Furthermore, I dont see what is wrong with one ally helping out another ally. The rule is pretty poorly written..... people can basically interpret it any way they choose.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:18   #668
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

You know what we could talk about this all day, lets see what happens on the battlefield.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:37   #669
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
You know what we could talk about this all day
We have been

Let's continue!
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 21:38   #670
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
lets see what happens on the battlefield.
I think you've missed the point of AD a tad.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 23:20   #671
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I think you've missed the point of AD a tad.
sorry i was having some suprise sex ;/
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 23:37   #672
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK.:.VJ
mazzelaar: im amazed over you. You must hate me or having some serious personal grudges for giving me and making another one give me red dots, you arse



This whole thread is so freaking out of line, changing subjects. And when things are cleared up people just keep on talking over the same thing.
I gave u a red dot cause ur posts are shit
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 23:39   #673
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Lol this thread is ace, I should make more of them.

Shame I was out in Basingstoke when all the fun happened, you could have killed my fleet 1up!

DLR left ND for a number of reasons, the biggest being the XP whoring. I was pushing hard for ND to try it out as an alliance before regrouping for R17 and going more hardcore again, most of the memberbase did not agree with me, and so it was decided they would play as normal and DLR would go our own way and play our way.

DLR support planets, wtf? An alliance/bg/group of mates of 15 people attacking who we want, defending who we want (if we want), makes us possible closures and support planets? How can this have changed from last rounds fleet catch when those defending eXi werent seen to be support planets?

As for the main topic of discussion, its fairly obvious to everyone that isnt part of the 1up propoganda machine (mazz, jester, etc) that for Angels, Subh and maybe even TGV to win, they HAVE to beat 1up. Beating ND will be far simpler. Give 1up a chance and they will run away to an uncatchable position.
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 23:46   #674
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
As for the main topic of discussion, its fairly obvious to everyone that isnt part of the 1up propoganda machine (mazz, jester, etc) that for Angels, Subh and maybe even TGV to win, they HAVE to beat 1up. Beating ND will be far simpler. Give 1up a chance and they will run away to an uncatchable position.
I suspect Jester will not be best pleased with that comment.

And an uncatchable position? ND made up more than 2mil score on us today, hardly falling by the wayside are they?
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Quote:
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 2 Mar 2006, 23:48   #675
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

This is it? I have bin told there is apparently a big issue in this thread regarding the MH Manager shouting his mouth off and quite frankly i find that log very amusing.

Now i dont like Assassin as i do indeed beleive his ego is to big, but on the other hand i do think he is good at what he does, unfortunatly though perhaps some of the things in that log have made him look a bit like a twit. But also i cant understand why people cant see the fact he was obviously given information and he was following up on it. He hasnt closed anyone from this i am guessing? I also read in the log he does state that if DLR are playing as an alliance, and they play for themselves and to not benefit ND (And what i mean which i am guessing he means is bassicaly to soly be there to defend ND and attack there targets with them) then there isnt a problem? So i dont see the big deal. I beleive Tomkat said this ealier a few pages back, he has followed up on information given, spoke to both HCs involved and simply talked it through with them. Troll im guessing is the DLR HC which was mentioned in the log and through the last pages i presume? (Youll have to forgive me my intel isnt what it used to be) Now Troll hasnt really commented which to be honest i respect more. The convo was obviously a convo between Assassin the head MH and 2 HCs of different alliances, one of the HC's obviously understood it, the other acts childish and posts a log of the convo on here. Now Spritfire, no offence, but get over it. I dont like him, but he was doing his job. If i saw 15 ex ND members who were in a tag, ND cant recruit anymore players due to the limit, and the HC being spoken to admits in the first few lines of that log that they share channels with them i would also be questioning you. I admit he does seem to have approached it in the wrong way with some of the things he has said, but thats becuase he is perhaps lacking in some areas. But somthing i find anoying is the fact a HC would then come running, to the forums, in a thread which has no relevence to that log what so ever and pastes a log of the convo. But not only that, before he pastes the whole log, he posts chunks of it first to make Assassin look biased.

I admit i would like to see Assassin perhaps come and post on here which he hasnt done so yet, i have pmed him and asked him about this issue, he wouldnt really comment as he saw it as a private convo.... i dont like the guy.. but thats more class then making it public on here i am afraid. Just the way i feel from an old timer.

Now as far as im aware it was dealt with, seems to me you were given a reminder of the rules and from the log i see above you gave impression (as Well as Troll i am guessing?) That it was understood and we would hear no more from it. The fact you have posted that log on here, and the way you did it before posting the whole log makes me wonder if there is somthing more to this, or perhaps your just anoyed. Either way, i dont really see the relevence of that log in this thread. Call me old fashioned but i beleive convos with an admin should be kept private? I wonder what kind of reception a MH would get if they pasted convos with people they have closed. So in Conclusion:

1) Assassin acted wrongly with some of the things he said, but again he was justified to do so to act on the information he saw, and all he was doing was giving you a warning nothing more by the looks of it to me

2) I dont see the relevence of this log being made public, never mind in a thread that is titled 'Angels/Newdawn' not 'DLR/Newdawn'

3) Spritfire learn some inteligence. No one has bin punished or have they for this? You were spoken to, and so was Troll. DLR did the right thing as they havent posted any logs of the convo they had with Assassin, they obviously understood and walked away, you posted this to be bitter or to cause propaganda, or perhaps just to be anoying. But either way no need for it.

4) Assassin i want you to comment on this.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:02   #676
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I suspect Jester will not be best pleased with that comment.

And an uncatchable position? ND made up more than 2mil score on us today, hardly falling by the wayside are they?
kicking and recruiting innit.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:13   #677
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
kicking and recruiting innit.
1 planet of ~2mil which means, at worst, ND are keeping pace with 1up score wise whilst having fewer roids. That can only mean the attacks they are landing get them good XP. Nd are doing superbly, let's give them credit where it's due.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:15   #678
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

I think you will find there is not one sentence from me this round criticising how ND are doing.

They are far exceeding my expectations and to be beating Angels without DLR is an immense achievement.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:23   #679
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I think you will find there is not one sentence from me this round criticising how ND are doing.

They are far exceeding my expectations and to be beating Angels without DLR is an immense achievement.
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were criticising them. It was just a straight compliment on the good work they've kept going for the last 3 days.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:24   #680
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

ND has spent a lot of rounds, moving from a mid level alliance to being able to "hang out on the porch with the big dogs"... so I'm not particularly shocked
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:25   #681
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Apology accepted mazz.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 00:37   #682
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
They are far exceeding my expectations and to be beating Angels without DLR is an immense achievement.
angels really aren't the alliance any alliance should be measuring up themselves against
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 01:01   #683
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
I fail to see the fundamental difference between that and 1up recruiting the best LCH members towards the end of r14.
Every alliance has done "bad" things in the past and will continue to do so in the future. It's all about winning, and whoever finishes 1st gets to laugh at everyone else. If everyone knows that ND and DLR are planning to merge, then surely the obvious strategy is to hit ND and DLR to make sure that their scores aren't high enough to win?
Whoever is #1 wins, there's really no point in calling it "unfair" or "lame" - I'm sure that 99% of the people here would not be saying that if it was their own alliance using this tactic.
Ascendancy is quite clearly the 1up recruitment wing. Surely everyone knows this?
The Thing is with the "best LCH members" going to 1up in R14 and DLR/ND This round is that LCH did get a kicking from 1up in R14 and these members effectively gave up on LCH (Ace, Remy and too many to name did a crackin rebuild job on LCH in R15 ) Also known as shipjumping/gloryhunting/doing a chika. Whilst DLR are associated with ND for a good few rounds. although they are "seperate" (debateable) if/when DLR go back into ND. the likes of grog, troll and the_fish would still have considerable influence in ND.

DLR = honourary ND members
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 02:40   #684
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Conclusion:

1) Assassin acted wrongly with some of the things he said, but again he was justified to do so to act on the information he saw, and all he was doing was giving you a warning nothing more by the looks of it to me

2) I dont see the relevence of this log being made public, never mind in a thread that is titled 'Angels/Newdawn' not 'DLR/Newdawn'

3) Spritfire learn some inteligence. No one has bin punished or have they for this? You were spoken to, and so was Troll. DLR did the right thing as they havent posted any logs of the convo they had with Assassin, they obviously understood and walked away, you posted this to be bitter or to cause propaganda, or perhaps just to be anoying. But either way no need for it.

4) Assassin i want you to comment on this.
Well theres 1 basic problem with your conclusions.
None of the accusations made by assasin were true, none of the things we were warned about have ever happened.

Other then a couple JGP fleets getting away or some fleets running to insure they'd be away when incoming landed, DLR hasn't ever sent defence anywhere out of gal. We don't defend each other. We certainly aren't defending ND. It's NEVER happened.
Retals for ND? Again never happens. The huge majority of our fleets launch the same time every day. We retal our own attackers at times but we certainly don't retal NDs for them.
Then theres the fact that Mazz was on here giving warnings about closures before anyone from ND or DLR had ever heard anything from Assassin.
It seems to me that Mazz went & whined to Assassin, who showed up acting like an ass, making threats, giving warnings, without ever doing any actual investigating.
Assassin was WAY out of line, total abuse of power.
Saying he was justified is total bs, there can't be any sort of evidence whatsoever to back up his actions. He was accusing us of things we've never done.

Warnng us we better not be caught retalling NDs attackers? I mean WTF is that? So now we're supposed to go check with ND to make sure none of our targets are attacking them before we launch every night?

IMO this was/is an indication of the greater problems with PA. Someone in a position of power, totally unqualified to have that power & sympathetic with what is generally the best alliance around.

No-one has been punished? No-one did anythging wrong.

The relevance of making the logs public? If incompetence & bias aren't made public & confronted, then it continues unchecked.

He did nothing wrong? He did everything wrong.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 03:07   #685
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

The problem, Grog, is that while its entirely possible none of these things may have happened in an official capacity, some of them have most definately happened on an individual level. How are we to know the difference between actions done as part of an official dlr policy, and ones by rogue members you have no control over, especially when you come on here with blanket denials? Youre a good guy, and I believe you (or at least I have no reason to doubt your sincerity), but the actions of some of your members dont always match with the statements youre making.

And for the record, I dont believe DLR are ND support planets... If anything ND are Gate's support planets
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 03:38   #686
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Im not getting invloved with the DLR / ND discussion i simply want to say to mazzlear from reading your posts and first thinking you were 1up proaganda machine boy and your posts were clearly biased towards 1up im sorry. I fiind your posts informative and good to read. Its nice to know that this is a game yes which we love but people can give credit where its due. Also 1up deserve all this publicity theres a reasion why its taking 1000 alliances to take you down gl for the future but i still want us to win hehe
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 03:57   #687
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Beating ND will be far simpler. Give 1up a chance and they will run away to an uncatchable position.
Oh come on this is pure propganda, stop trying to make 1up seem like the gods they simply arent. You know as well as I do that 1up are humans. Its rediculous saying "angels/subh lets hit 1up with ND then when we beat 1up, it will be easier to beat ND" seriously not even 1up nor exilition are that good.

It baffles me how ex ND and ND members say hey "Subh/Angels help us to twat 1up" so you can "twat us once we beat 1up" if people are stupid enough to fall for you blatant pr then for them although I hope and I know alot of people on these boards are smarter than you think.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:12   #688
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
permission to be smug and proved right captain
permission to join you in being smug

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Well theres 1 basic problem with your conclusions.
None of the accusations made by assasin were true, none of the things we were warned about have ever happened.
He sodding well quoted you examples of it happening, which were blanked out in that log.
You'll forgive me for saying that he has access to FAR more accurate intelligence then you seem capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Other then a couple JGP fleets getting away or some fleets running to insure they'd be away when incoming landed, DLR hasn't ever sent defence anywhere out of gal. We don't defend each other. We certainly aren't defending ND. It's NEVER happened.
Again, he gave you examples of it happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Retals for ND? Again never happens. The huge majority of our fleets launch the same time every day. We retal our own attackers at times but we certainly don't retal NDs for them.
YET AGAIN HE WILL HAVE EXAMPLES IF HE ACCUSED YOU OF IT
Jesus you arent good at this propeganda stuff are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Then theres the fact that Mazz was on here giving warnings about closures before anyone from ND or DLR had ever heard anything from Assassin.
It seems to me that Mazz went & whined to Assassin, who showed up acting like an ass, making threats, giving warnings, without ever doing any actual investigating.
You dont have the first clue as to what goes on in the multihunting procedure. Of course he investigated - as every other planet would be.
He found something he could forsee as becoming unacceptable and came and warned you about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Assassin was WAY out of line, total abuse of power.
Saying he was justified is total bs, there can't be any sort of evidence whatsoever to back up his actions. He was accusing us of things we've never done.
Hes well within his power to warn you, and indeed close and delete you if he thinks you have broken the rules.
You can cry about it all you want and scream "omg abuse" but it doesnt make it true
Hes accusing you of things he has evidence of you doing - enough of the "we're innocent" shite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Warnng us we better not be caught retalling NDs attackers? I mean WTF is that? So now we're supposed to go check with ND to make sure none of our targets are attacking them before we launch every night?
Warning you not to behave like support planets.
Hardly a complicated concept to get your head around is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
IMO this was/is an indication of the greater problems with PA. Someone in a position of power, totally unqualified to have that power & sympathetic with what is generally the best alliance around.
He is completely qualified to have that position, he earned it with his selfless service to the game
Do -YOU- deserve the position you have of fleet commander?
on what basis do you judge that?
Its pretty much the same way that the pateam positions are justified - they work and they earn them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
No-one has been punished? No-one did anythging wrong.
You have missed the point somewhat. He is warning you before you cross the threshold of what is considered acceptable so that he doesnt HAVE to punish you.
Consider yourselves lucky, were i still in charge i would have probably waited for someone to make a mistake, cross that line and closed them for it. and then you would be in PR hell having had someone closed for doing the very thing you claim you werent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
The relevance of making the logs public? If incompetence & bias aren't made public & confronted, then it continues unchecked.
Unfortunately those logs only show the incompetance of your own HC
They tried to sling mud, selectively quoting parts in a feeble attempt to tarnish the reputation and credibility of the very person who was warning you, and when forced to display the log in its entireity - got caught out as being little more then manipulating logs for your own political ends.
You were caught out by your own incompetance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
He did nothing wrong? He did everything wrong.
He has done nothing wrong, several others in different alliances have already said on this thread that assassin was perfectly reasonable.
it is YOUR alliance which is in the wrong, not the multihunters.
Quit crying about being caught and actually change the behaviour of your 'alliance' so you dont fall under the support planets category

edit :
Angels/NewDawn 3 Mar 2006 07:23 I have never seen a bigger moron than you. Get off my internet and die slowly please.
i just love abusive neg reps. They make me smile inside
especially when they are posted by a halfwit ( lo to all the exil grey reppers out there btw while im on the subject, you have made me laugh several times in the past with the gems you give me )
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:21   #689
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
ND has spent a lot of rounds, moving from a mid level alliance to being able to "hang out on the porch with the big dogs"... so I'm not particularly shocked
Yeah, while 1up are inside on the rocking chair, sipping gin and laughing of times gone by.

Pity one of those dogs is going to have to be put down
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:29   #690
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Then theres the fact that Mazz was on here giving warnings about closures before anyone from ND or DLR had ever heard anything from Assassin.
It seems to me that Mazz went & whined to Assassin, who showed up acting like an ass, making threats, giving warnings, without ever doing any actual investigating.
Just shows how grossly misinformed you are or how cretinous your opinions are. I haven't spoken to Assassin since Eclipse days nearly other than the odd hello. If in doubt accuse everyone of whining
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:40   #691
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Yeah, while 1up are inside on the rocking chair, sipping gin and laughing of times gone by.

Pity one of those dogs is going to have to be put down
actually Mazz and I just cracked open a bottle of Crown.....and the wives went shopping....could be entertaining
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:45   #692
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Yeah, while 1up are inside on the rocking chair, sipping gin and laughing of times gone by.

Pity one of those dogs is going to have to be put down
you'd best hand me old yeller and a shotgun then :\
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:50   #693
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
Well theres 1 basic problem with your conclusions.
None of the accusations made by assasin were true, none of the things we were warned about have ever happened.

Other then a couple JGP fleets getting away or some fleets running to insure they'd be away when incoming landed, DLR hasn't ever sent defence anywhere out of gal. We don't defend each other. We certainly aren't defending ND. It's NEVER happened.
Retals for ND? Again never happens. The huge majority of our fleets launch the same time every day. We retal our own attackers at times but we certainly don't retal NDs for them.
Then theres the fact that Mazz was on here giving warnings about closures before anyone from ND or DLR had ever heard anything from Assassin.
It seems to me that Mazz went & whined to Assassin, who showed up acting like an ass, making threats, giving warnings, without ever doing any actual investigating.
Assassin was WAY out of line, total abuse of power.
Saying he was justified is total bs, there can't be any sort of evidence whatsoever to back up his actions. He was accusing us of things we've never done.

Warnng us we better not be caught retalling NDs attackers? I mean WTF is that? So now we're supposed to go check with ND to make sure none of our targets are attacking them before we launch every night?

IMO this was/is an indication of the greater problems with PA. Someone in a position of power, totally unqualified to have that power & sympathetic with what is generally the best alliance around.

No-one has been punished? No-one did anythging wrong.

The relevance of making the logs public? If incompetence & bias aren't made public & confronted, then it continues unchecked.

He did nothing wrong? He did everything wrong.

I am not going to go through this to much as Phil seems to have justified it all well enough to probably shut you up. But what i would like to point out is do you actually read what you post? Now most of your post is claiming Assassin had no evidence to come and speak to the HCs like he did, as phil pointed out he does have evidence. But how can you claim he was incompetitent for doing that when you post lines like this:

'Then theres the fact that Mazz was on here giving warnings about closures before anyone from ND or DLR had ever heard anything from Assassin.
It seems to me that Mazz went & whined to Assassin'

Do you have evidence Mazz has spoke to Assassin? I beleive perhaps you should take your own advice about having evidence before posting? Now another point which i cant seem to understand is your confident that your fleets have not defended ND's i am curious of how you can be so sure about this? You can really be sure that 15 planets, with 3 fleets each have not interacted at all even though Sprit has admitted that you have some members sharing your channels? But anyway, phil i think has done enough i beleive to make all of our points. I would want to see the DLR HC Log with Assassin also btw, as it seems Troll by the sounds of it seemed to take account of what Assassin had to say and walked away. Now as far as pasting the log goes, Spirit lost the respect of showing that log when, as phil said, he only posted chunks of it as slander toward Assassin to make him look the way i said before. Plus beings he did that before, how can we be sure he hasnt left out any lines again? Logs can be faked/editted to benefit the person posting them. Surely i dont have to remind you of this?
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:54   #694
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

There is alot of people around Phil that have questioned Assassins competence and ability to lead the multihunters, myself included.

I think Grog's claims are just and would like to hear an explanation from Assassin.

Gladly, we're not paying for this round of incompetent multihunting and extremely poorly set up round, but if this is gonna continue I fear that more and more players will grow fed up with the game and play something abit more fun and intriguing like tic tac toe, minesweeper or a good old game of online strip poker.

Me personally have the last one as a favourite atm, and after hearing alot of complaints from the TGV gaming community about the way PA is being run atm, we are currently looking for other games to expand into to find a fun game to play again.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 08:58   #695
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

I personally think hes perfectly capable of leading the multihunters, its part of their job to take flak from those who think they are incompetant/biased/out to get them/ etc etc
usually these comments come from those who have in some way been punished by them or have a political score to settle
Granted i have the advantage of knowing precisely whats involved in multihunting that most of you do not have. All you have is third-hand information about how things are done. Such information is easily, and often is twisted in such a way that reflects favourably on the person complaining about it
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 09:01   #696
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
I personally think hes perfectly capable of leading the multihunters, its part of their job to take flak from those who think they are incompetant/biased/out to get them/ etc etc
usually these comments come from those who have in some way been punished by them or have a political score to settle
Granted i have the advantage of knowing precisely whats involved in multihunting that most of you do not have. All you have is third-hand information about how things are done. Such information is easily, and often is twisted in such a way that reflects favourably on the person complaining about it
I really want Assassin to explain his actions still.
The information I have about multihunters and how they work I have from Appocomaster and vaguely Assassin, and some from Xontas _before_ he was fired. Clearly, they could be twisting the information they've given me but I dont think so.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 09:03   #697
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

he explained them in the log
he states he is required to follow up on such things, lets them know what is and isnt acceptable with a warning not to be a support alliance and leaves it at that
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 09:09   #698
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

The point i would like to make here is that with tags, if you join a tag you are a defacto alliance and therefore, benefit from the alliance cooperation exception under the rule (or else it doesn't work because it applies to attacking/defending). This, as I guessed above allows some behaviour, but not others. It doesn't matter who is behind the tag, because a tag in this game instantly implies an alliance. If (in the extreme) an alliance had more than 50 members, they would be well within their rights to play under two tags as long as they stayed within the exception provided, from what I can see in the rule. It would be no different to a block.

The thing that I find bizarre, was that the rule was introduced to enforce alliance size, yet achieves something completely different to that because of the very nature of it. I'd blame the rules, rather than the multihunters. What multihunter has a hope of giving a reasonable, consistent application of the rule?

Earlier this round, I attacked on one occasion with a member of GD who is playing. The next day I wanted to attack with him again, but he was untagged and thus the rule caught us out. I enquired to Appoco and he was pretty honest and said he couldn't be sure - from what I gathered that by doing it more than once, I was putting my planet at risk of deletion, although it wouldn't happen necessarily. While this was a satisfactory answer (although an utterly uncertain one), it doesn't detract from the point that the rule is hopeless, as all I was doing was helping someone out. In the end, I decided that the risk wasn't really worth it.
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 09:10   #699
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
he explained them in the log
he states he is required to follow up on such things, lets them know what is and isnt acceptable with a warning not to be a support alliance and leaves it at that
Well, in my book this whole "defence" rule thing have gotten so much out of hand that someone with real authority should shut the entire rule down.

But PA's history shows that doing the wise decision always is the last one to make. Let's hope they improve soon!
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Unread 3 Mar 2006, 09:18   #700
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

there was a suggestion last round by lokken, that i agreed with where if you were in an alliance - you could not recieve defence from anywhere other then that alliance, your cluster or your galaxy.
If that had been implemented this whole mess could have been avoided, at least on the part of recieving def from the other.
co-ordinated attacks isnt something you can easily stop, or should even be stopped
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