when will they learn that no amount of killings will get them there demands?

[Rumad]

I see the group that beheaded nick berg beheaded another in similar fashion today.

Now apparently they have made some random demand about releasing wmen frm 2 prisons where there are no women and they have no way of being contacted.

So why make demands they know will not be met?

I feel sorry for all the families of the people involved.

[roadrunner_0]

because they dont actually care about the demands, they know that the dameands are never going to be met anyway, so they are just killing people in horrific fashion in an attempt to force us to withdraw, which wont work, so the killings will continue

[Embroglio]

i think they're trying to drive western contraction companies out and public support for the war hardly gains a boost from these things

[wu_trax]

i wouldnt say that it doesnt work, would you go and take a job in iraq?

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

i wouldnt say that it doesnt work, would you go and take a job in iraq?

If it was a job which involved cutting off the head of Zaraqi or however the hell you spell his name, yes, I'd take it. though I would cut him up much more slowly than he cut the heads from his hostages.

[Leshy]

I'm too much of a pussy to cut off anyone's head without vomiting, going into shock and unconscious.

[IncubusGod]

Well its having its desired effect. Who the hell in their right minds would go work in Iraq?

The risk of ending up knelt down, sobbing, in an orange jumpsuit while a group of masked men read out a statement you know will end with them chopping off your head, outweighs and monetary gain in my book.

[Knight Theamion]

dunno icy, the risks are also there in england if you walk over the street a madman has a good old samurai frenzy :\

[LHC]

What are you talking about? Nobody would have wanted a job in Iraq before, and this had nothing to do with beheadings.

[IncubusGod]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

dunno icy, the risks are also there in england if you walk over the street a madman has a good old samurai frenzy :\

I'm thinking the likelyhood of a mad samurai frenzy in middle England is much less than a kidnapping and beheading in Iraq.

Now if you mentioned football riots....

[Knight Theamion]

what about football riots?

[Vaio]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

what about football riots?

Haven't had them for years

~Vaio~

[Tomkat]

In Die Hard when they made demands that made no sense, it's because they were stealing money.
You can learn a lot from Hollywood.

Maybe someone should get on the phone to Mr. Blair?

[Smudge]

/me thinks we should just pull everyone out, let them kill each other, then steal the oil, i mean keep the peace.

[wu_trax]

oil is actually a good idea: why dont they blow up more pipelines?
especially if you think of the situation in russia, i mean blowing up a school full of children certainly makes some impression, but half of the world would be seriously annoyed if the oil-price rises above 50$ / barrel

[Smudge]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

oil is actually a good idea: why dont they blow up more pipelines?
especially if you think of the situation in russia, i mean blowing up a school full of children certainly makes some impression, but half of the world would be seriously annoyed if the oil-price rises above 50$ / barrel

Nice explosive idea there but also apart from price rises in oil you have to consider the knock on effect - petrol prices rise or not enough petrol could be bought leading to protests, governments falling because of it then global armegeddon.

I think i lost it after the petrol price rise.

[Stew]

The 2nd US hostage has just been beheaded.
Sick ****ers.

[skiddy]

Yeah I'd take a job in Iraq tomorrow if one was offered to me, but I'd make damn sure I was armed when I was there. I'd rather be shot during the hostage taking proceedures than beheaded days later.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Smudge

Nice explosive idea there but also apart from price rises in oil you have to consider the knock on effect - petrol prices rise or not enough petrol could be bought leading to protests, governments falling because of it then global armegeddon.

And USA's government falling is bad how?

[CrashTester]

I just got a job in Iraq!

[skiddy]

Originally Posted by CrashTester

I just got a job in Iraq!

You must be off your head.






(Sorry)

[queball]

"desperation"

[Tomkat]

I think it's stupid how the families are going on the news verballing abusing Tony Blair for not meetnig the terrorist's demands. Are they so simple that they don't realise that any demands met will just result in higher and more demands?

The British guy in there is probably already dead, they're just waiting to release the video.

[Rumad]

i think its disgusting that they look like they have backed down too them.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Rumad

i think its disgusting that they look like they have backed down too them.

You wouldn't be saying that if it was your Dad.

[Rumad]

i know, but by doing this they are opening a can of worms

[Snurx]

The thread title could just as well fit in a thread attacking the US, since they have killed, terrorized and tortured so many more Iraq'ies then Saddam or these Jihadees.

And, the terrorizing from the crazy-religiouz fanatics (Not Bush this time kids, it's the Jihadees now) are working like hell. Civilian companies draw their folk's out or cancel their plans, and some countries have retreatet troops allready. I have not clue to how long this conflict is going to last, but as long as America and their allies are pissing of the whole third world, they might just be bogged down for a long time.
If they just don't kill everybody, of course.

[Mek]

we shud not be held to ransom by terrorists. the demands to release women from prisons?? wtf kinda demand is that??

the people are working in iraq for the money for their families.... they are being paid4 or 5 times a normal weekly wage as far as i know

[JonnyBGood]

Terrorism works in this case because none of the people being executed actually have to live* in Iraq.







*As opposed to how the Americans have to live in New York, the Spanish in Madrid or the Israelis in Tel Aviv.




PS Can you justify that claim that the US has killed or tortured more Iraqis than Saddam Hussein snurx?

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by Mek

we shud not be held to ransom by terrorists. the demands to release women from prisons?? wtf kinda demand is that??

especially if you consider that there are only two women in us-prisons in iraq (at least that is what they say)
on the other hand: what else could those terrorists do to fight the occuptation? they can hardly fight the us-army directly, they would simply bomb the crap out of them with zero casualties. they cant even hit them with car-bombs anymore.

[wu_trax]

oh, and i found this in another forum, just in case someone thinks that the situation is improoving:

Originally Posted by some guy

If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?

President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

source

[Stew]

It's not like the bloody Arabs treat the women with any respect anyway, they about prison them in their own homes anyway.

[/sweeping generalisation]

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Stew

It's not like the bloody Arabs treat the women with any respect anyway, they about prison them in their own homes anyway.

[/sweeping generalisation]

These two women were jailed for being close to Saddam professionally. I think they had something to do with chemical warfare (taken at a guess from one of them being nicknamed "Dr.Germ").

[Rumad]

they were the developers of Iraq's germ warefare program.

[Stew]

I'm well aware of their background, I just meant in general they are not known to treat their women well, so specifically asking them to be freed was a bit hypocritical imo.

[Ninja_spammer]

Is that the Germ warfare program that didn't really exist or the Counter germ warfare program?

[Rumad]

lol - if you can't find it it mustn't exist ;p

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Rumad

lol - if you can't find it it mustn't exist ;p

Is this sarcastic? I'm genuinely confused here.

[IncubusGod]

Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer

Is that the Germ warfare program that didn't really exist or the Counter germ warfare program?

Iraq had a germ warfare program at one time.

No-one has seen that this was active recently and has certainly not found these mass stock piles of bio weapons.

Iraq was not saying it had no germ programs in the past, it was saying it had no active programs and no stockpiles before the war.
Which has been borne out since.

[Vermillion]

Issuing demands has nothing to do with actual results. Demands are not offered in such a way as to be met, they are offered in such a way as to make a political statement. Taking prisoners is one thing, executing them yet another, but if you offer up demands, in particular politically crafted demands, then you alter the balance of blame slightly when the demands are not met and the people are executed.

As well, kidnappings with demands will create media attention far more than a simple snatch-and-kill would.

Example: Iraqi insurgents knew very well that capture and threat to a couple of people from nation X will not force nation X out of the war. No government in the world would or could accept such terms openly. However it WOULD put significantly more pressure on government X to justify its involvement in Iraq to its own population. After all, to the wider public, in a snatch and kill, 100% of the blame is on the insurgents, but if demands are offered and rejected, then surely at least 2% or 3% of the blame rests with those who refused the demands? Even if the blame is still 98% with the killers, it changes the dynamic enormously.

If two women had been released, do you think it would have made any difference to the insurgents? Yes, they would have released the hostages, then simply grabbed a couple more in that target-rich-environment and made other demands. The demand had nothing to do with the release of these women; it was playing on the emotions of the people, both of Iraq and abroad, making the statement that the insurgents 'care' about the plight of these poor women in barbaric US custody.

That’s one of the many reasons why giving into these demands is irresponsible and stupid, because the demands have NOTHING to do with expected results, the demands are an end unto themselves.

[LHC]

Originally Posted by Snurx

The thread title could just as well fit in a thread attacking the US, since they have killed, terrorized and tortured so many more Iraq'ies then Saddam

How can you possibly make this claim?