Surely this is illegal right?

[Rids]

Was at work until the ungodly hour of 3.20am last night, due to an installation of systems which took 5 hours longer than we were told to expect. Had to get a cab home, since all transport to my part of London from Oxford Street ceases after about 12.30, cab home cost me £30. Now, I was due to start work at 8.00 the next morning, lets be honest here, there was no ****ing way that was happening. To avoid calling anybody and waking them from their slumber, I left a note on the inner door explaining why I wouldnt be coming in, and also that I was being forced to take a taxi home, which I expected to have paid for via expenses.

This morning I get a phonecall, infact, I get several phone calls. The first is from my prick of a manager asking where I am, what gives me the right to take the morning off, personally I felt the fact I worked a 19.30 hour shift the day before gave me all the right in the world to some sleep, apparently not. Then I get a call from the regional manager, saying that no taxi home was authorized and I can pay for the taxi myself (£30 ahoi) and finally, I get another call saying that I'm now expected to work tonights late shift (10pm finish) to make up the time I missed this morning, and also start work at the 7.30 shift tomorrow morning.

I didnt realise I had '****' printed on my forehead, because that is what they seem to believe I am. I will be going to work in about another two hours, and there is going to be 'hell' when I get there. Now, I'm pretty sure that the company is legally obliged to pay for the cab, I read this somewhere, but google isnt my friend at the moment. Also, when we're talking about working practices, isnt there always supposed to be a 12 hour gap between shifts?

If anybody can help me out, I would appreciate it, else it will just be me going in there, using lots of swearwords and telling them creative places they can stick their mobile phones.

[Zar]

If they get arsey with you (threatening you with dismissal) threaten them with court action. Always scares them off.

However consider that if you want to work there for a while longer, these things happen and although they suck you have no choice but to bite your finger and endure it. It sucks but this is the way the world works. If you shout at your boss, dont expect to be treated well or any chance of a promotion soon.

[Rids]

I've already got a promotion, contract is signed and sealed, and I'll only be working this this prick for another month or so.

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Rids

I've already got a promotion, contract is signed and sealed, and I'll only be working this this prick for another month or so.

threatening with court action it is (if applicable)

[madi]

do you have a flexi time work agreement?
if not then working late one day doesnt automatically entitle you to start late the next day

you should have made an agreement with your manager beforehand

[meglamaniac]

Rids dude, check this out.

To summerise:
Being made to work longer than 48 hours a week is illegal.
Being made to work 2 consecutive days without an 11 hour rest period is illegal.

[edit]
On top of that you can point out to your manager that:
a) You didn't HAVE to stay those extra hours, you were not contracted to do them, but you did it for the good of the company etc
b) It is reasonable to expect to catch up on sleep after staying for so long for him
c) He's a prick

[IncubusGod]

Most places should be resonable. Clearly this place isn't.
They cannot expect you to turn up for work at 8am after only getting out at 3.20am.
Firstly you are required by law (in this country, not sure about UK can cant seem to find the info) to have at least 10 hours between shifts/work.
Secondly, do they expect you survive on 3 hours sleep and get the job done the next day?

No matter what, don't give in. It was unreasonable to expect this and any court would never agree with them. Threaten court action if the get pissy. Ensure you get your cab money home.

[Everpain]

meglamaniac beat me to it. There are strict EU regulations governing exactly how hard yuor employers can push you, and unless you've signed a waiver against this legislation (which, as someone paid by the hour, I have done - working more than 48 hours = ££) you can take action against them.

[meglamaniac]

Well plain and simple its illegal for you to be in work before 2:20pm today.
If they don't like it, tough shit.

Sounds like your manager is expecting to have his cake and eat it.
Incidentally, what made you stay so late? If you were asked to (especially by someone in a superior position) that makes your case even stronger.

[Radical Edward]

that 11 hour thing is perfect. not sure about the taxi fare thing though.

[NEWSBOT3]

do some CAB website looking/searching, they've got loads on employment rights n stuffs

[Rids]

Thanks guys, this gives me a chance to say '**** them' for both today, and tomorrows shift.

I appreciate it.

[NEWSBOT3]

if i get time i'll find you the relevant CAB/employment rights site i looked at, later

[Rumad]

11 hour respite should be ok. As for the taxi - was there a manager there to authorise your transport?

If not and public transport was not available I think you are within your rights to do such a thing, as long as you really had no other modes of transport and it wasnt agreed in advance that you would work the hours needed for th eimplementation. If that was agreed it was arguable that you could have organised an alternative mode of transport home or at least pre agreed the taxi.

[Kal]

i'm surpised there wern't buses around in london though - although i conceded it could have tkane a long time to get home with multiple bus changes potentially

[Deffeh]

Originally Posted by Rids

Thanks guys, this gives me a chance to say '**** them' for both today, and tomorrows shift.

I appreciate it.

I absolutely DEMAND you get it right up them. Taking shit off people who dont know what theyre talking about is one of the most infuriating things about work.

You have a choice to score one against the man, here.

[RealJames]

First of all, laws or not, I find the attitude of your employers deploreable. You could hang them at industrial tribunal for things like that, get onto your union pronto.

Yes, as stated before the working time directive is specific about this. You can opt out of the working time directive (which a lot of people do) but you cannot be forced to. Off the top of my head I was under the impression it was 10 hours, not 11, but the law certainly exists. Personally, I wouldn't have even answered the phone. And as for the cab, again, get advice from your union, they love things like this.

Good luck.

[roadrunner_0]

he workes in a moblie phone shop, i will be surprised if they are in a union which is a tad unfortunate as it would be your first port of call.
the taxi thing, i think you may be right, but i cannot find any evidence quickly to back this up

[Dante Hicks]

I very much doubt there's anything in law about the taxi thing, but any reasonable firm would pay for it (did you get a receipt? Try and find the taxi-driver and get one if not.) Even if your manager says no to it, there's undoubtedly a greivance procedure which you can follow (if there's no union) or simply write to Sales Director and outline the position, how you love working for Vodafone, etc, etc.

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Rids

I didnt realise I had '****' printed on my forehead, because that is what they seem to believe I am.

you're 5 star in my book, babe

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Rids

Also, when we're talking about working practices, isnt there always supposed to be a 12 hour gap between shifts?

i don't think so, my last job didn't have one anyway

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I very much doubt there's anything in law about the taxi thing, but any reasonable firm would pay for it (did you get a receipt? Try and find the taxi-driver and get one if not.) Even if your manager says no to it, there's undoubtedly a greivance procedure which you can follow (if there's no union) or simply write to Sales Director and outline the position, how you love working for Vodafone, etc, etc.

im not sire to be honest, you see, i know that mcdonalds HAVE to pay for a taxi home for any staff who finish after midnight, so i am assuming that if they have to then there is some reason for it, i just cant find any atm

[Dante Hicks]

There could be contractual guarantees, but I find it hard to believe that there is a blanket "If you finish after midnight you get a taxi" sort of rule, because what about the legions of night staff?

[queball]

Originally Posted by meglamaniac

Rids dude, check this out.

To summerise:
Being made to work longer than 48 hours a week is illegal.

That's not what it says...

"a maximum 48 hour working week averaged over a reference period"

[roadrunner_0]

no, i meant more for workers who arent considered to work unsociable hours to be able to get home, as doesnt unsociable hours pay take into account travel during times in which there will be no public transport?

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I very much doubt there's anything in law about the taxi thing, but any reasonable firm would pay for it (did you get a receipt? Try and find the taxi-driver and get one if not.) Even if your manager says no to it, there's undoubtedly a greivance procedure which you can follow (if there's no union) or simply write to Sales Director and outline the position, how you love working for Vodafone, etc, etc.

Actually I seem to remember something about fulltime staff working unsociable hours outside of there main contract. For a start the rate of pay for hours outside of the shop working hours would have to be increased at varying rates (I would say from 23.00 through you are entitled to at least 13/4 time if memory serves me right, but you would have to look at your contract for that).

The problem with expenses is that it is down to the individual company. Its based on best practice put forward by the DTI and Inland revenue. This relates to subsistance as well as travelling expenses, but its not law and its easily down to interpretation.

As I said in my previous post, by looking at the attitude of his company, if he cannot prove he used all reasonable endeavours to acquire an alternative mode of transport (bus, train, work colleague) I cannot see him able to uphold getting the sponds back unless they are feeling like a reasonable and best practice employer.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

im not sire to be honest, you see, i know that mcdonalds HAVE to pay for a taxi home for any staff who finish after midnight, so i am assuming that if they have to then there is some reason for it, i just cant find any atm

Yeah but your comparing a company with policies for security of its staff with a 3rd rate employer who doesn't give a stuff. Argos made employee's get there of there own volition, but paid extra rates of pay to compensate for this.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

he workes in a moblie phone shop, i will be surprised if they are in a union which is a tad unfortunate as it would be your first port of call.

Arse.

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

im not sire to be honest, you see, i know that mcdonalds HAVE to pay for a taxi home for any staff who finish after midnight, so i am assuming that if they have to then there is some reason for it, i just cant find any atm

Yep, they did for me in my four-week hack there.

[Boogster]

Heh. I wanna hear the court transcripts.

[CrashTester]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

he workes in a moblie phone shop, i will be surprised if they are in a union which is a tad unfortunate as it would be your first port of call.
the taxi thing, i think you may be right, but i cannot find any evidence quickly to back this up

http://www.usdaw.org.uk/

[MAdnRisKy]

ok the taxi thing. McDonalds is a bad example, they *used* to leave employers to get home on their own, until the girls started getting raped, then they organised taxis. Read: they don't have to do this they choose to because they employ so many young people, and any reputation which would inhibit such people working for very late for no extra pay (well 50p if it's after midnight) would be to their detriment. There is no LAW that states about the taxi, but most companies do provide transport if late home, think of the number of companies that say "must have own transport" when advertising. They don't state that for legal reasons they state it because they're telling you that transport expenses can go **** themselves.


As for the hours thing though, yes you are legally obliged to take (I actually thought it was 8 but now I think 10-11 fits better) a given period between shifts and if your shift goes past 12 hours long, you are actually due a 15 min paid break every hour thereafter.... AND what's better if your employer tries to make you work excluding that period, he is at fault (in theory even if you agreed anyway) and can be sued. They're not just on thin Ice Rids, they're up shit creek without a paddle. The ONLY thing you need to prove is you were ASKED to work that late (read: get this finished even if it takes all night and job has an expected time to do which would run past your normal contracted hours), if you were just told to get the job done they could imply they only meant "get it done within your normal contracted hours" and if there is no defined time taken for that job, they could imply you were just being slow and trying to milk them for money, and they're quite within their rights to pull you up on it. If the later is the case they could argue your extended work was free gratis which leaves YOU ****ed

[Rids]

Back, I'll fill you in after food.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Rids

Back, I'll fill you in after food.

fill us in then

[meglamaniac]

Originally Posted by Rumad

fill us in then

motion seconded.

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by meglamaniac

motion seconded.

And thirded, etc...

[CrashTester]

the geezer is a w@nk stain on the thong of humanity.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by CrashTester

the geezer is a w@nk stain on the thong of humanity.

leave my th0ngs out of this

[Rids]

So, I arrived at work yesterday. As soon as I got through the door I was pulled into the meeting room by my manager, he'd already filled out a record of conversation form without my input, and told me to read and sign. I read it and screwed it up in front of him. I did my best to remain calm as I didnt want to give the prick another excuse for an aditional record of conversation, although I believe I did tell him that he was treating me like a ****. In the end, it ended up in a big clash, but I didnt sign anything, the guy was in the wrong, and I'd won... or so I thought.

Snivelling prick gos crawling to the regional manager with complaints about my 'show of contempt' and 'complete lack of respect' - Sorry, I thought respect had to be earned. Didnt realise that as soon as you get a badge saying 'Manager' I should start sucking your cock at any given oppurtunity. Anyway, left work at 8 or so last night, just told them that they had more than enough people to close anyway, and since I was on the early, if they wanted me to be there they should let me leave.

Arrived at work this morning, everything seems to be going fine. Shop gets opened, no systems are working but that is the norm these days. In comes somebody in HR who deals with disiplinaries, dont know the exact position, but she is high up. In comes a manager from the region, who deals with disciplinaries, alarm bells start ringing.

Anyway, in the room for this are, myself, and on the other side, HR bird, manager from the region, and store assistant manager. This is starting to feel like some kind of court martial, I think theres a firing squad outside, I can almost hear the drummers beat... I was hit with a barrage of questions, about this, that and the other. I laid it on the line how what they were asking me to do was illegal, how I was treated like absolute shit which put me in a bad mood which caused me to treat the manager like the prick that he is, everything.

Anyway, the manager from the region really came through for me. Where as the other two were strict rule followers and wanted to have me shot, he explained how I was trying to do the company a favour, how I was well within my rights to have left when my shift finished and left the store with no systems at all, etc etc.

in the end I got off without a note on my record or anything, and a few people promising to have a word with my manager, all in all, it wasnt a bad outcome, it could have been a lot worse. My cab fare is being paid via expenses and I'll have it in 2 weeks, and I'm also being paid 2 days full overtime for going out of my way.

Cant wait to see the prick on tuesday and gloat in his ****ing face.

[Apothos]

Winnar. \o/

[Nondescript Human]

[Phang]

fan


tastic

[Embroglio]

you're the man fighting the man!

[Kurashima]

Whos the black privateer that all the chicks wanna be with ....

RIDS!

[Leshy]

Stick It To The Man!

[G.K Zhukov]

Good work Rids.

Now coming from a working class family, I suggest you get yourself into a union (and with that I mean a good union). This time you were lucky that that guy defended you, but will he be there next time? Your manager sounds like a complete fascist, so you might get more shit like that.

Laws are all well and good, but in the end you need someone behind you to back you up.

[meglamaniac]

Good lad.
Glad you stuck to your guns and showed that all these EU directives and so on do actually translate into the real world after all.
It sounds like your manager is at the sort of level I hate - rather like my manager at the co-op chain where I used to work; expecting you to do what you're told, when you're told, with no regard for hours or anything like that. Most of those sorts of nobs don't expect you to know the law on working hours, and probably don't know it themselves. I had more than enough arguments with my manager over this sort of thing. I hated him and he hated me, but he couldn't do a thing about it because he was bright enough to know that if he tried he'd lose any ground he had because he was in the wrong.
Similarly, if your boss had a clue about employment law, then he wouldn't have tried to get a disciplinary on you because clearly they wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if they fired you. A basic grasp of this sort of thing should be mandatory for anyone above the basic "peon" level who is responsible for the working hours of others, because at the moment too many pricks with no clue have managerial posts.

Oh well.
Glad our improvised legal advise came through for ya.

[Deffeh]

[NEWSBOT3]

this makes me smile.

like this

[Dace]

I'm glad the forums helped :)

[CrashTester]

put in a greviance against your manager - drop the w@nker down a peg or two.