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Unread 3 May 2005, 10:34   #1
Ultimate Newbie
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[Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Advanced Core Extraction
This technology will allow an additional 2500 resources of each type to be extracted every tick.

Deep Core Drilling
This technology will allow an additional 2500 resources of each type to be extracted every tick.

Magma Extraction
This technology will allow an additional 2500 resources of each type to be extracted every tick.


I was just thinking that this branch of the research tree could grow over time - it just seems a bit silly to have the next level of research give the same benefit again (especially when considering that the time taken to research increases significantly). Whilst i realise that you dont need to research it, Core Resources forms a significant part of small planet's resource income - especially as it is non-stealable and non-destroyable (such as roids and Refineries respectively).

However, i recognise that having an unstealable source of income increases the potential stagnation of the game. Thus:

I was wondering whether a reasonable increase to the Core Resources branch would be possible/beneficial - say the equilivent of 30 roids for Advanced Core Extraction (as it is now), followed by 50 roids for Deep Core Drilling, and finally 100 roids for Magma Extraction. Notice the slightly increasing exponential nature here.

The influence this change will have wont really effect most players of the game, but will go some way into making pa more fun for smaller players - who find it fun to build ships, and not fun loosing their source of income repeatedly - whether it is 'easy' to get back or not.

Thanks.
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Unread 3 May 2005, 10:40   #2
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

Im all for this. Core reserch should be more of a viable option for the smaller players who arent active enough to keep their roids. While not affecting the larger players to much who will have to go for HCT as its more profitable
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Unread 3 May 2005, 11:01   #3
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

Maybe an option where you have to choose extra core resources or the last few roid techs?
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Unread 3 May 2005, 11:11   #4
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

well, tbh i dont see the point in that.

Players who have enough roids to need the last few mining researches wont give a damn about 100 roids from magma extration.

Similarly, small players who will find magma extraction important (ie the small players) wont have a need for 8000 roid research techs.

And, if you cut it down too low like HCT3, then everyone will go for roids anyway.

Or, virtually everyone.

If you are looking for mutually exclusive research options, then you need to consider two options that appeal to the same type of player. Take Round 3's Tech tree for example. You had a choice between Battleships and Tarantulas ('lo nodrog ) - ie ship tech (with races this isnt significant), you had a trade off between 'Core Resources' and Ion Turrets (Core resources back then opened up 3 'advanced' mines that were twice as large as the first three - one for each resource) - thus you have players who defensively minded - either wanting to sit behind a pds wall or players who want to have few roids and thus get attacked less, another one was Hyperspace and Military scans, trade off between information and speed.

I have an inkling that there was a fourth one, but i cant remember what it was atm - i'll get back to you .
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Unread 3 May 2005, 12:03   #5
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
If you are looking for mutually exclusive research options, then you need to consider two options that appeal to the same type of player. Take Round 3's Tech tree for example. You had a choice between Battleships and Tarantulas ('lo nodrog ) - ie ship tech (with races this isnt significant), you had a trade off between 'Core Resources' and Ion Turrets (Core resources back then opened up 3 'advanced' mines that were twice as large as the first three - one for each resource) - thus you have players who defensively minded - either wanting to sit behind a pds wall or players who want to have few roids and thus get attacked less, another one was Hyperspace and Military scans, trade off between information and speed.

I have an inkling that there was a fourth one, but i cant remember what it was atm - i'll get back to you .
There were just 3 choices, actually. Also, the benefit of choosing Core Resources was that it allowed you to build Daggers

Either way, I agree completely with this
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Unread 3 May 2005, 12:33   #6
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonentity
There were just 3 choices, actually. Also, the benefit of choosing Core Resources was that it allowed you to build Daggers
Must have been what i was thinking

Daggers owned. I wish my current daggers had 99% emp res :\

that, and my ships having something resembling armour that isnt made from 100th time recycled paper. :\
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Unread 23 May 2005, 18:02   #7
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

I like the original idea
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Unread 27 May 2005, 03:46   #8
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I like the original idea
Approve it then mate?
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Unread 27 May 2005, 13:23   #9
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Re: Upgrade to Core Resources

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Approve it then mate?
hehehe don't rush so much m8

but seams like a good idea to me, the figures mentioned seam reasonably sensible, altho maybe 100 roids for the top one could be a little too much imo. altho are these newer players that it is gonna benefit actually gonna realise it benefits them ??
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Unread 28 May 2005, 00:49   #10
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

i like that idea...
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Unread 28 May 2005, 19:12   #11
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

i like it.. just do NOT go down with the 8k roids... that's low enough tbh.
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Unread 28 May 2005, 19:45   #12
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

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Originally Posted by cypher
i like it.. just do NOT go down with the 8k roids... that's low enough tbh.
This limit (with longer rounds) only helps the stealing race - zik this round..
Not a good thing at all imho..
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Unread 29 May 2005, 07:02   #13
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANdrode
This limit (with longer rounds) only helps the stealing race - zik this round..
Not a good thing at all imho..
Does it? atm Ziks are the only ones (pretty much) with roids. they dominate the top of the ranks and are unassailable except by more/bigger ziks.

So wouldnt you be limiting the growth of these ziks untill the time when all the other races catch up - which isnt likely to happen before hte end of the round anyway?
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Unread 2 Jun 2005, 21:58   #14
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Why not just keep the mine thing going, like the asteroids. It would help bashed planets come back faster, and allow smaller planets in smaller galaxies to keep growing even if they can't hold onto roids. It wouldn't matter too much to larger planets, as they'd be researching increasing roid researches. There'd have to be a limit, maybe make each research only give 1,000 resources per research, and then increase them much like the roids researches do.

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Unread 4 Jun 2005, 04:48   #15
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Additionally, and I just thought of this, increasing Core Resources would make people less dependent on roids, thus less likely to defend them, making roid transfer in the universe more fluid.

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Unread 4 Jun 2005, 15:36   #16
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melesse
Why not just keep the mine thing going, like the asteroids. It would help bashed planets come back faster, and allow smaller planets in smaller galaxies to keep growing even if they can't hold onto roids.
There! you've already said why having this type of income become variable is bad.

If you allow the smallest players to grow in value whilst not having roids, it becomes more expensive to attack sooner. there are fewer roids in the universe, and those that ARE there cost more to capture (as there is more fleet value defending the same number of roids). As more attacks are recalled due to the higher levels of defence, there is more and more fleetscore flying around able to defend those roids - making them even more expensive to capture.

In the end, it would lead to stagnation.

tbh, i'm not sure whether my original suggestion would increase stagnation or not - you would think that it would as it gives more unassailable resources to the smallest players (more value defending same number of roids), but then again it may not have much of an overall effect on the game as a whole.

Here's to hoping, anyway :\
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Unread 4 Jun 2005, 20:14   #17
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

good idea
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Unread 5 Jun 2005, 01:21   #18
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

I think it would depend on how much you get. I mean, there are Core Mines right now that don't lead to stagnation. Of course if you make the planets roid independent via core mines, of course it's going to stagnate. What I was looking for was a way to make smaller, ravaged planets be able to still rebuild. My idea and the original one are very very similiar, the only difference is one of time. You suggested keeping three researches, I suggested spreading them out with smaller amounts per research.

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Unread 5 Jun 2005, 06:08   #19
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melesse
I think it would depend on how much you get. I mean, there are Core Mines right now that don't lead to stagnation. Of course if you make the planets roid independent via core mines, of course it's going to stagnate. What I was looking for was a way to make smaller, ravaged planets be able to still rebuild. My idea and the original one are very very similiar, the only difference is one of time. You suggested keeping three researches, I suggested spreading them out with smaller amounts per research.
Ah, i thought you meant drawing them out ad infinitum like the current roid researches - where there are like 28 levels to the branch, each one rising exponentially or whatnot.

I'd still personally prefer it to be in three (maybe 4) researches, as that way it wont conflict with other important research such as Ship or TT.
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Unread 5 Jun 2005, 14:53   #20
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Why not? I'm at the point in this round where I'm researching the 7500 roid (or something like that), and I am certainly never going to get that many roids (Every time I get over a thousand...poof! They disappear! Must be a bug....lol), but I have nothing else to research. While you can research the entire tree in a round, most of the roid researches are worthless, except to the top 100 or so. Be nice to either add more researches, or stretch out what we have. Make it a choice. Top Planets are gonna go for the roids anyways, cause they have the roids on hand.

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Unread 24 Jun 2005, 10:29   #21
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

If the Core Resources tree is increased then I think the first 3 should stay as they are. Any further researches should still give the same bonus but take longer to research. Then it really is a choice between HCT and Core Resources.
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Unread 26 Jun 2005, 06:27   #22
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Re: [Discuss] Upgrade to Core Resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melesse
Why not?
Because if all the small planets were receiving a much larger income from focusing on core resources, they wont be investing in roids.

Stagflation occurs when there are too few roids in the universe - and that means that at the macro level you want to encourage the smallest players to init the most number of roids possible.

Altering Core resources to the smallish degree would give these smallest planets more cash to init lost roids with - whilst not enough to replace roids all together (or, indeed, to a large degree).

There is a fine line...
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