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Unread 11 Aug 2007, 02:30   #1
GReaper
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No portal, no website

Any particular reason why there isn't any website to actually advertise Planetarion?

The lack of effort being put into the site is quite shocking. I can understand a few days downtime to get a new site up and running, but it shouldn't take months.

Is there anything scheduled soon?
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Unread 11 Aug 2007, 05:47   #2
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Re: No portal, no website

Nobody is paid to do it. Just thanks the guys who are doing it for free and excuse them if it takes them time.
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Unread 11 Aug 2007, 14:50   #3
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Re: No portal, no website

I have been sad that we spent last round winning that mmorpg thing on-line in an effort to get new players, then made this a free round in an effort to get more players- and then haven't had a working portal to get new players this entire round.
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Unread 11 Aug 2007, 15:28   #4
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Re: No portal, no website

I would agree.

As a returning player, I naturally went to www.planetarion.com to get re acquainted with the game and wasn't really very impressed with what I found.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 10:26   #5
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Re: No portal, no website

Am I expecting too much?

I'm just disappointed that the many people who help run the game can't seem to get a site together.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 10:27   #6
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Re: No portal, no website

I dont know what to say, I would think 7 weeks would be time enough to atleast get the old portal back up
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 10:49   #7
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Re: No portal, no website

Dont see why they need to reinvent the wheel.
Why not just install drupal and add whats needed inc theme ala pa.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 15:25   #8
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Re: No portal, no website

Hey guys give them a break; they've been really busy re-arranging the hierarchy of the forum modding team (it had about 6 people before... and it still has 6 people!) and now that's done I'm sure they'll create some new exciting ideas. Like maybe a couple more botstopping questions, or something.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 16:47   #9
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Re: No portal, no website

More?
Hell no, i want less, and nothing higher then 10+10.
Im tired of questions like "5r4235564262654-43243251552/234232"
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 17:31   #10
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
More?
Hell no, i want less, and nothing higher then 10+10.
Im tired of questions like "5r4235564262654-43243251552/234232"
That's got nothing to do with the portal.

If you can't do simple arithmetic in your head or even muster the courage to load up windows calculator then what a sorry state you must be in
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 18:39   #11
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Re: No portal, no website

Never said it had anything to do with the portal you tosspot.
It was tomboy who said they should focus on more bot stopping questions instead.

Bot stopper questions are useless anyways with p2p and few people playing.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 19:01   #12
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Re: No portal, no website

I was joking, actually
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 19:07   #13
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Re: No portal, no website

i agree with awake though. i went to the portal, saw it was down and followed the link to the old portal.. which except for linking me to the forums was pretty useless info wise :\ hey pateam if you guys need help then ask for it! i'm pretty sure there's some people would love to help you guys.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 19:13   #14
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
Nobody is paid to do it. Just thanks the guys who are doing it for free and excuse them if it takes them time.
Maybe Jolt (who we do pay btw) should hire someone to finish it then? To be honest im upset at how shit you're answer was.

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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 19:16   #15
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Re: No portal, no website

erm veil.. if nobody volunteered you'd have no game to play.
you have no idea how much work is done through volunteers.
mods, #planetarion ops, support staff, mh's, newsletter team, portal staff etc.
you really should appreciate how much work they do for free for YOU.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 20:45   #16
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Hey guys give them a break; they've been really busy re-arranging the hierarchy of the forum modding team (it had about 6 people before... and it still has 6 people!) and now that's done I'm sure they'll create some new exciting ideas. Like maybe a couple more botstopping questions, or something.
Its hardly PAteams fault that the portal hasn't been done. From what I understand when Chef quit his role in charge of the portal the new one was well under way then for some reason when idler took over him it seems to have stalled. PATeam cant run every part of PA and when they put someone in charge of something and for whatever reason it doesnt get done theres not a great deal they can do.

I believe that Idler has now been removed from the project though so hopefully it should get moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
Dont see why they need to reinvent the wheel.
Why not just install drupal and add whats needed inc theme ala pa.

A custom coded system does have major advantages over any off the shelf package. These off the shelf packages are littered with security holes which are widly advertised and east to take advantage of it and your generally stuck with the hole until the coders of the package decidd to fix it.

A custom package while containing probally just as many holes just aren't as visible and hence arent as appealing for people to abuse.

However even with a custom package there is too much reinventing the wheel. Back in r4 I was part of the team that built the second version of the portal and the basis of the whole project was to take the current portal and remake it in a reusuable framework so that future portals would only ever need a template redesign, bug fixes and the occasional additional module coded. However when the next redesign came around rather than using this framework and just doing a new design they scrapped it all and rebuilt the framework. And since then we must have had the same thing happen atleast 4 times, if not more which is just taking the piss really and wasting so much time that volenteers could have used elsewhere

So whats really needed is once and for all we need a framework that is going to be stuck with with just the odd extension and bug fix made to it rather than a complete rewrite so that future coding jobs for the portal are small and manageable for a volenteer and so other people use their efforts more efficiently
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 22:24   #17
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Re: No portal, no website

According to the latest Creators Hour we'll be seeing a new portal shortly. I'll wait until it's up before commenting on it!
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 01:09   #18
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Re: No portal, no website

I have been working on a new portal all by myself for some time now. I am sorry if it has not come as quickly as you had expected. It's my leaving gift to you.. :P
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 05:29   #19
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Re: No portal, no website

I just want to add a few points to what Wakey has written above.

The portal is totally bespoke, I have written it completey from scratch and it is partly my fault for the delay it has seen. This is mainly because I have been trying to find the time to link my code with the skin which Jolt provided. Albeit not a massive job, but I have finally found enough time to churn it out and I will be getting the portal up tomorrow.

The issue is that I actually started writing this portal back in June and had the code finished in the main since roughly mid July. Since then it has been a waiting game for the skin to be finished.

The new portal has the following features:
  • Blogs
  • Articles
  • New Manual
  • Usergroups
  • Game Management (both user and admin)
  • Account Preferences
  • News
  • + an admin side for all the above

For the blogs it is yet to be determined whether it will be limited to Usergroups who can blog as a unit, like an Alliance for example. I am pushing for every user to have a blog but there is a major moderation issue. The blog system is huge and a lot more information can be written about it.

Articles, the usual really.. nothing exciting here.

New Manual, the way the new manual works is in Sections/Pages. This way we can effectively create a better navigational manual which is more user friendly. There will be a full help guide on the Portal in this manual.

Usergroups, my initial thought was for these to be administration groups which I can easily give access to but I have coded it so it can be used as any group of users which could mean Alliances might get a look in here.

Game Management, this is the main feature. Signing up to a new round or any version of the game will be done through your Game Manager. It will list upcoming events, current events and anything else you have access to. It will be the way in which you will sign up in future. You will maintain the account you originally signed up with throughout the rest of your PA Career. There is a really nice Admin side to this too.

Account preferences, just the usual really, nothing too great here..

News, same as above, just normal really; Announcements, EoRC, CH's etc..

As I have already said in the CH, there will be a lot more information available once it becomes live. Please do not be alarmed if it won't let you sign up from the moment it becomes live as it may be that I am just doing a few last minute tweaks.

If you have any questions, ask here I am happy to answer anything.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 10:25   #20
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Re: No portal, no website

What was wrong with the old portal? Why couldn't it just have been tweaked etc?

If you're planning on leaving once you've finished this portal, doesn't that mean that the next person to inherit its reponsibility will also decide to code it all from scratch again...?
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 11:08   #21
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk
I am pushing for every user to have a blog but there is a major moderation issue. The blog system is huge and a lot more information can be written about it.
I hope not tbh. The portal should be selling the game not being a repository for people to post badly written accounts on their lives. Imho any blogs or articles really need a PA theme else they simply detract from marketing potential for the portal. If people want to post their accounts of their life in PA then the GD is perfect for that (As the likes of Tomkat have shown in the past) and if they real want a day to day blog theres many options out there which they can use so sign up for one, stick the url in things like your forum sig and cross post the most interesting, humorous ones that have an appeal outside those who know you to GD
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 11:36   #22
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Re: No portal, no website

Anything that contributes to the spirit of the community is something that contributes to PA. Or did you think that initiatives like ng-gallery.net dragged people away from the game?
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 11:43   #23
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Re: No portal, no website

Yeah I agree with wakey; a blog isn't the kind of thing a portal needs. Unless it's PA orientated (someone's account of what has been happening in their PA round) then it's a bit pointless.

EDIT: Although I can see mz's point, I don't think that the team should be using up their coding time on things like a blog when it could be better used elsewhere. A blog would be a nicety to add later, but it shouldn't be a priority.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:15   #24
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Anything that contributes to the spirit of the community is something that contributes to PA. Or did you think that initiatives like ng-gallery.net dragged people away from the game?
The portals not supposed to be something thats there as a community spirit building tool, its there to portray a professional product that captures potential players imagination, which is an illusion that none quality controlled blog that are basically offtopic instantly shatters.

Just look at the articles on the old portal for example
  • We have Kal posting about being sent on management courses and the lack of access to PPV movies and mini bars in hotels
  • myk about birthdays, uni, drinking and such like
  • Squishy about going to poland, sniffer dogs thinking hes a drug smuggler and then drinking
  • Fiery mainly about the various hassles of being a mum

and thats just from PATeam. While most of them arent too bad a read, Fierys especially are really well written the amount of info about whats being done with the game in minute and from it you really only get that PATeam spend almost all their time parting and drinking

And if we look at Managerleague and their blog system we see that alot of the blogs on their portal fall into the same kind of style

Now I'm not saying there isnt a place for things like this that, as we see with the forums there quite clearly is a market and a need for community spirit building tools, the same goes for things like ng-gallery but it just doesn't belong on an official portal. Its either something that the best of it belongs on the forums, is a community project much like the PAwiki or not be as part of the portal but as seperate site under the PA banner
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:19   #25
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Re: No portal, no website

Who told you what the portal is "supposed to" (there it is again!) be like? Maybe that isn't their goal at all, which would explain why they're considering allowing a blog for every player.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:29   #26
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Re: No portal, no website

My main concern is if there is anyone that is actually going to update the content on a regular basis. Chef managed to do a reasonable job at this but I've yet to see anyone else do the same.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:30   #27
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
The portals not supposed to be something thats there as a community spirit building tool, its there to portray a professional product that captures potential players imagination, which is an illusion that none quality controlled blog that are basically offtopic instantly shatters.

Just look at the articles on the old portal for example
  • We have Kal posting about being sent on management courses and the lack of access to PPV movies and mini bars in hotels
  • myk about birthdays, uni, drinking and such like
  • Squishy about going to poland, sniffer dogs thinking hes a drug smuggler and then drinking
  • Fiery mainly about the various hassles of being a mum

and thats just from PATeam. While most of them arent too bad a read, Fierys especially are really well written the amount of info about whats being done with the game in minute and from it you really only get that PATeam spend almost all their time parting and drinking

And if we look at Managerleague and their blog system we see that alot of the blogs on their portal fall into the same kind of style

Now I'm not saying there isnt a place for things like this that, as we see with the forums there quite clearly is a market and a need for community spirit building tools, the same goes for things like ng-gallery but it just doesn't belong on an official portal. Its either something that the best of it belongs on the forums, is a community project much like the PAwiki or not be as part of the portal but as seperate site under the PA banner
Why dont you run for being in charge of the Portal then Wakey, you seem to have some ideas on how to run it..
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:31   #28
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Who told you what the portal is "supposed to" (there it is again!) be like? Maybe that isn't their goal at all, which would explain why they're considering allowing a blog for every player.
Somehow I doubt that their aim is to look like some two bit company run by a bunch of amateurs out of one of their bedrooms. This is after all a game that does request a membership fee to be paid so a air of professionalism is vital.

Anyone who has a slightest knowledge of marketing will tell you the same, as is clearly shown by MMO's like Eve-Online which aren't just hobbies from the creators but serious attempts at building a marketable product and building a viable business around it
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:37   #29
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Re: No portal, no website

I'm fairly confident in the average human being's ability to tell the difference between a webpage with content written by official representatives of Planetarion and a webpage with the private rantings of a disaffected college student.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:39   #30
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Why dont you run for being in charge of the Portal then Wakey, you seem to have some ideas on how to run it..
If I thought I had to the time to take a proper stab at it then its maybe something I would have considered at some point in the past but with my various other PA Duties and RL I don't think I would be able to do it justice.

I don't know how official this is so i'm not going to say too much but I do believe they have offered someone the Portal Manager role and that this person has accepted and I think its someone most people will be happy with
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:41   #31
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Re: No portal, no website

If we have a more community driven product, then people may join the community and then go on to sign up for Planetarion, rather than vice versa...?
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 12:43   #32
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If I thought I had to the time to take a proper stab at it then its maybe something I would have considered at some point in the past but with my various other PA Duties and RL I don't think I would be able to do it justice.

I don't know how official this is so i'm not going to say too much but I do believe they have offered someone the Portal Manager role and that this person has accepted and I think its someone most people will be happy with
We can only pray that this rings some truth.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 13:31   #33
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
If we have a more community driven product, then people may join the community and then go on to sign up for Planetarion, rather than vice versa...?
Which is exactly why I stated that community driven initiatives do have a place somewhere just not as part of the portal directly as its a marketing tool that needs to give off a certain impretion to those visiting. With blogs atm I see 3 ways of making them a valuable commodity without effecting the marketing factors of the portal
  1. Farm it out to the community. Encourage someone to set up an external website providing PA Players with a blog. The advantage of this is when people post PA related blogs they dont have to worry about speaking their mind as its not an official site. However the problem may be that I'm unsure how much community draw it would have on its own, it may need some other community driven initiatives attached to it to make it a site the community would want to go to
  2. Using the forums and private blogs. Alot of people already have private blogs and a number of people do post blog style threads on the forums (GD especially) and a tighter relationship could be developed between the two. All players should be encouraged to start a blog, be it on your own server or using someone like blogger and guides could be provided to help people out . If they make a post that they think its insigtful, thought provoking, funny or simply something they want advice about they would be allowed to cross post it on a elivent forum including at the start the line "Originally posted at http://linktoblog.com". In return they would stick PA in their link section on their blog. They could also put their blog link in their sig, This then provides cross promoting of each other, gets more forum activity and gets the word out about PA to the wider community.
  3. PA sets up a separate blogging website. It could still use the portal login so anyone creating a blog or registering to post comments is just one step away from having a planet. It heaverly advertises PA but blogs are on any subject and its not directly part of the portal,maybe listed as a partner site on the portal or something. As its not directly part of the portal a little more freedom on posts could be granted (not as much as a fully independent community project but more than it being on your main marketing site).


From a workload pov #2 is probally the best option although something like #3 would be an intresting development that would offer intrestung promotion opertunities
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 14:29   #34
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Re: No portal, no website

In response to some of the points made, of course a lot of what is said here regarding the blog system will be certainly taken in to account. There is already a movement against the user blogs even without the community knowing about it.

On the point of, I'm leaving so who is going to be lumbered with doing the portal?

Chef is coming back to run the portal again. I will be still around to make updates to the portal over a period of time. I am not cancelling my NDA. I will just not be PATeam or any form of admin capacity, I will simply be updating/upgrading the portal whenever it needs doing.
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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 01:02   #35
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk [on August 16
The portal is totally bespoke, I have written it completey from scratch and it is partly my fault for the delay it has seen. This is mainly because I have been trying to find the time to link my code with the skin which Jolt provided. Albeit not a massive job, but I have finally found enough time to churn it out and I will be getting the portal up tomorrow.
Tomorrow... a week later... you know... whatever.
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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 01:45   #36
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
The portals not supposed to be something thats there as a community spirit building tool, its there to portray a professional product that captures potential players imagination, which is an illusion that none quality controlled blog that are basically offtopic instantly shatters.

Just look at the articles on the old portal for example
  • We have Kal posting about being sent on management courses and the lack of access to PPV movies and mini bars in hotels
  • myk about birthdays, uni, drinking and such like
  • Squishy about going to poland, sniffer dogs thinking hes a drug smuggler and then drinking
  • Fiery mainly about the various hassles of being a mum

and thats just from PATeam. While most of them arent too bad a read, Fierys especially are really well written the amount of info about whats being done with the game in minute and from it you really only get that PATeam spend almost all their time parting and drinking

And if we look at Managerleague and their blog system we see that alot of the blogs on their portal fall into the same kind of style

Now I'm not saying there isnt a place for things like this that, as we see with the forums there quite clearly is a market and a need for community spirit building tools, the same goes for things like ng-gallery but it just doesn't belong on an official portal. Its either something that the best of it belongs on the forums, is a community project much like the PAwiki or not be as part of the portal but as seperate site under the PA banner
Thank you for the lovely compliment, Wakey. I had no idea that anyone actually read my blog. I had considered writing about the day to day stuff I deal with in #multihunters but thought 1) it might violate my NDA and 2) does the community really want to hear about the people coming in to discuss their cases...
I may change my mind and post some of the more amusing stories a round or two after they have happened.

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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 02:01   #37
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Re: No portal, no website

And? :P
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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 02:12   #38
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Re: No portal, no website

:s I'm at work and one of the deputies messed with my computer. I'm glad it wasn't the pervy one or you may have gotten something horrid to read.
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Unread 22 Aug 2007, 11:11   #39
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiery
Thank you for the lovely compliment, Wakey. I had no idea that anyone actually read my blog. I had considered writing about the day to day stuff I deal with in #multihunters but thought 1) it might violate my NDA and 2) does the community really want to hear about the people coming in to discuss their cases...
I may change my mind and post some of the more amusing stories a round or two after they have happened.
I'd say the general idea of a staff blog on a site would be for the people with more interesting things to write about, mainly for developers who want to inform the community about upcoming features in the game.

Sadly the old portal was never really used to its full potential.
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 07:45   #40
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Re: No portal, no website

i think wakey's got a few good suggestions, but afaik at the moment posting links to other sites is considered advertising and a bannable offense?? i've been away too long i'd better go review the forum rules again.
but still, some sort of disclaimer would be needed as some people's sites may display content that is inappropriate. for example we ban for goat.. links but do we ban for a link to a website with goat.. on it? we DON'T want mods to have to check out every link posted in people's sigs.. that seems like far too much work.
#3 actually sounds like an interesting idea. something that can be run separate, but still be linked to PA. the problem is labour. PAteam has no coders to spare and another 'mod' team would be needed to make sure things were running smoothly. i don't necessarily mean censorship but to keep things friendly.

edit: read the rules.. it's only considered advertising if it's for a game similar to pa.
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 08:38   #41
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Re: No portal, no website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
i agree with awake though. i went to the portal, saw it was down and followed the link to the old portal.. which except for linking me to the forums was pretty useless info wise :\
just to stand up and talk for the old portal...

its old but it isnt useless, user friendly .. not very, but all the info is there.

ok its says R20: orbital shift for the title..

all the links work, i realise that on the net if its 6 months old its ancient... but the old lad has kept us going so far, not had any major hiccups unlike the rest of pa.

so Useless is much too strong a word, and an insult to the original maker !
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Unread 23 Aug 2007, 08:50   #42
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Re: No portal, no website

alright, i agree.. useless was the wrong word i suppose. and i meant no offence to anyone who's worked on it! but i meant it more in the context of finding info about the current round.
if it had been updated (in more areas than just announcements) perhaps it would be a more suitable substitute while we wait for the new portal.
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