Wings

[SSJVegito]

Hi i would like if any one here could help me by telling me about wat purpose the wings are in an alliance and all the info to do with them please

Thanx King Cold

[K-W]

One way that an alliance can manage a larger number of players is by breaking it up into multiple sections. Each section has its own command that answers to the overall command. Often wings are other smaller alliances or independant groups that join up with a larger allainces and retain some of thier autonomy but are under the overall command of the main alliance. Another type of wing commenly seen is a recruitment wing, which si run by a command member of the main alliance. A pure wing attacks and defends within the wing, sharing with the main allaince but forming two pools, but other variations can exist. But if there isnt defensive differentiation it becomes more of a battlegroup.

[Sun_Tzu]

The best example of a wing-based alliance would be Xanadu, another was Tsunami.

[TheACE]

how about NoS, that is also a wing based alliance.

The best known wing is the Jr-wing, to c if ppl r trustable.

[K-W]

The best known wing of all time is, ofc, LDK. Who were, next to Wrath in Fury the prime examples of how useful a wing can be. In LDK's case they were the epitome of of a very self contained group that existed within an alliance for mutual benefit. Though, LDK's independance and strength gave them alot of power within xanadu. And I know at times it seemed that the best interests of xanadu were subverted in part to help LDK's rankings. There is a good and bad with giving autonomy to a group within your alliance.

Wrath of course was an extremely effective recruitment project that used an independent but well integrated wing that very effectively kept Fury at the top of PA when many of its earlier round members were moving on from Planetarion.

There are of course many other notable wings, many alliances have had recruitment wings, as well as the alliances that use a wing structure.

Wings have advantages and disadvantages and whether or not they are the right structure for an alliance depends alot on the specific charecteristics of that alliance.

[Chaos]

well.. for Nos there was 3 wings..
2 wings for main NoS - [HR] Howling Rain , and Illuminati
and 1 recruitment wing. - Anoubis.

there wasn't much difference between HR and Illu for the members. that differences only became clear if you got promoted to an officer.

as HR was an alliance before it joined NoS as a wing.
but we didn't just wing under NoS. we become NoS.
about half of the NoS members where HR. (not counting Anoubis which had recruits for both HR and Illu in it)
they considered them self NoS. but part of the HR wing.
but we kept the HR comunity alive. and made them feel realy part of HR. not just NoS.

so here you have another way a wing system works.

the HR command structure was merged into NoSes. and all given new NoS ranks. but also keeping their HR ranks.

we where fully integrated into NoS.. but we also kept our individuality. that is perhaps the reason our split from NoS now went so painless.

there are many reasons for an ally to consider winging for a bigger ally. for one. you learn a great deal. and gain lots experience. you also gain new friends and contacts.
and it can also be a great way for your HC's to get some rest. recharge the batteries.

for an alliance to consider to take on an alliance as a wing. they must make sure they are compatible with your own ideals and community spirit. and be prepared that that wing can split on you at any moment. but it's a quick memberbase boost. and no mather how n00bish anybody calls an alliance. they all have atleast some realy good members. be them HC, officer or peon.
and unless you take on a completly n00b ally. then you get experienced BC's also, no need to train them. no need to wonder if their up for the task. just ask their former HC.

some totaly seperates their new wing from the main alliance. making them secondrate members. and some make them all part of the same family. equals.. all depends on how compatible the two alliances are. and what they want from the arrangement.

SSJVegito: I hope you understand what wings are now?

[Klendau II]

Alliances use wings in order to make hasty aerial getaways, when battles are not going there way.

Hahahahahahahhaaha.

[Doorsdown]

some alliance have no wings and then it gets way too confusing at times. But with wings u need to be able to keep loyalty to the Alliance and not to the wing. HR did the best job of that.

[BlueArmy]

when did K-W turn into a helping person?

Wings take the loyalty to the real alliance away, the only wings an alliance should have is the recruitment wing (Wrath, Anoubis, Acolyte etc). Cause it's nice to know what kinda scum u are letting into your alliance

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by BlueArmy
Cause it's nice to know what kinda scum u are letting into your alliance

I take it you were in a lot of recruitment wings then?

[Rabbagast]

I suppose TE is also an example of a wing system.

The Empire was quite good while the wings stood together..
but once independent wings decided to detach and fly solo it hurt the whole alliance quite abit.

The whole background and reason to all of that was alot more complicated, but I choose to give a simplified image for this occasion.

Some of these wings in [TE] were :
Ultra Violance (UV)
Tsunami (~tsu]
181st
Phantom Fighters


The terms in todays alliance organisation is more fluently I think.
The descriptions such as wings/squads/fleets/task-forces/Attack-Teams/Battle-Groups etc. are all frequently used.
It doesn't seem to be any set values to what is 'what'.

As long as it works I'm happy =)


'Rabba
Reporting in from :
The Sunny beaches of Norway
-
You better watch out where those wolves go, so you don't eat that yellow snow !

[Atul]

Originally posted by K-W
blabla Though, LDK's independance and strength gave them alot of power within xanadu. And I know at times it seemed that the best interests of xanadu were subverted in part to help LDK's rankings. There is a good and bad with giving autonomy to a group within your alliance. blabla

*fury is the best blabla*

Wings are quite comparable to parts of countries which are self-governed, e.g. Spain -> Basque region, Catalonia, etc., etc. (or u could maybe even compare it to the Commonwealth of Nations at around 1900-1930

to get back to PA (especially Xanadu):

LDK indeed always played an important role in Xanadu's attack capabilities, but still never had more members in Xanadu HC than any other wing (except the core group ofc)
Every wing in Xanadu had exactly 1 HC in the Xanadu overall Command, which was still lead by Grim, zip and Sastul (and Chax for a time)
Every wing had his own memberbase (mostly country based -> XDS -> dutch, LDK -> lithuanian, Pure -> german, r4/section -> uhm, dont wanna say anythin wrong now, MrJ?
but all were added to the main Xanadu Channel, where those without wings were (still a reasonable count)

to give u an overview:

r4/r5 Xanadu HCs
Grim
zip
Sastul
Chax
MrJ (r4/section)
Lrytas (LDK)
Glatze (DdS->XDS, later on RedBull leader)
Olrik (Pure)

i hope i didnt miss anyone o_O

in fact, every wing in Xanadu had his own rights, but at no time they could influence the Xan HC excessively.
Every wing had his own branch at the über1337 Xanadu page, most of the time (at least during r4) the BattleCommand in Xanadu checked for various target gals in one night and let the wings attack seperately, eg. the famous wave attack on Singu and his gal, where the waves were split into the wings (i think LDK took 3 waves heh)

thats about it already, its 5am so dont blame me for any spelling or textual mistakes

[K-W]

Originally posted by Atul
sigh, fury intel aint gettin better after 10 rounds o_O

Intel? Sigh clueless xanadu board posters aint gettin better either.

This is not an intel issue I wasnt commenting on your official structure. I base what I said mostly on rd 7. Where, when the war started to turn against wenx, xanadu took to helping thier top galaxies at the expense of the overall war effort. Many of thier top galaxies being LDK. Everything from defensive strategy to attack strategy seemed far more designed to grow and guard top gals than to win a war.

Thats all I stated, it seemed that helping those gals, many ldk, hurt Xanadu in rd 7. It did. It made our jobs much easier.

Perhaps this was just plain poor strategy, perhaps it was a matter of pandering to galaxies of influential people of all wings. im simply pointint out what I saw, i never made intel claims. Simply stated "at times it seemed that the best interests of xanadu were subverted in part to help LDK's rankings" Which is exactly what it seemed like.

[Atul]

dumdidum...blame my tiredness

got no real overview over r7 xan activities

/me hugs Germ

[HobbieRogue4]

Being in BlueTuba's wing system was the coolest.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by HobbieRogue4
Being in BlueTuba's wing system was the coolest.

ohh great. now that was enlightning.. it was just "coolest".
WoW that had to be some system ;P

[kyrealean]

the only wing that ever mattered was teh "batwing"


Warbat's attack wing within WaC back in Rd2.

some of the notable people that resided in the #batwing channel

Warbat --- r.i.p
Rudolph
Saytan
Dessenter
Barney
^O^
Rook
Kyreal

and a few others that i cant remember offhand.


sigh was good times though

[Scorpio]

Originally posted by BlueArmy
when did K-W turn into a helping person?

Wings take the loyalty to the real alliance away, the only wings an alliance should have is the recruitment wing (Wrath, Anoubis, Acolyte etc). Cause it's nice to know what kinda scum u are letting into your alliance

that's why in Xanadu recruitment was still largely centralized

[Wishmaster]

wow..a thread with as good as no flaming, and the newcomer got a good answer:-)

is this really ad?

[Seth Mace]

Its sickening aint it wishmaster

[Doorsdown]

o hush sethy

[DrunkenViking]

Originally posted by Chaos
well.. for Nos there was 3 wings..
2 wings for main NoS - [HR] Howling Rain , and Illuminati
and 1 recruitment wing. - Anoubis.

Well. Since NoS is pretty much illuminati now(HR left and Anoubis is down atm?) it would be nice to include lithyn too. After all they were a wing aswell, even tho noone liked them and it would turn out to be a not too good cooporation :/
I wouldn't call NoS a wing alliance anymore. But i truly believe they were one of the best wing based alliances back in the good old days.

[Auro]

The in-joke is that Lithyn is still our ultra-secret-uber-leet-:ninja:-n00b-wing. A while ago I claimed their chan in the name of NoS but not too many peeps took notice. My peon Smooth_ will field your questions about our cheeky wingy shenanigans.

[Sun_Tzu]

I wouldn't blame lithyn for it not working out, you'd think NoS officers and command would avoid the subject, keeping in mind the treatment lithyn received from them...

After NoS's rather violent kicking of Lithyn from it's servers Jurgen negotiated a deal for them to go into WP, though not as a wing but just as a group of players within the ally. However they were hardly assimilated fully as they rnd9 made an effort to revive Lithyn(Sapientia) which then failed and now large portions of former Lithyn are in Dragons(and the rest are back in WP more or less).

The story of the trials and tribulations of one wing(left out the prelude a.k.a. Xylem as it wasn't a wing then yet)

[KoeN]

ofc the wingsystem in Xanadu was great, but i still think TFD back in R3 had the most 'entertaining' wingsystem; a GREAT site (imo next to the sites of Elysium and Xanadu the best) that had perfect clantools, clanpages and competition-elements.

about 25 wings with an average of about 20 members a wing.
those were the days...

[Scorpio]

Originally posted by KoeN
ofc the wingsystem in Xanadu was great, but i still think TFD back in R3 had the most 'entertaining' wingsystem; a GREAT site (imo next to the sites of Elysium and Xanadu the best) that had perfect clantools, clanpages and competition-elements.

about 25 wings with an average of about 20 members a wing.
those were the days...

hmm, about the same size as the squads we used in r2 and r3

Xanadu has always worked with "sub-groups" for military purposes. In early round 2 we based the groups on clusters (XFA), ie. members in c1, c2, c3, c4 would attack together. Later on we used squads (UXF & ViruS). And after that we worked with real wings.

Squads and wings both have advantages and disadvantages.
- Squads; small and good for teambuilding. Will result in a much better and stronger relation within the squad and more dedication towards it.
- Wings; larger but more flexible. Because of a larger memberbase, a wing will have more firepower and thus is capable of performing multiple missions (at the same time).

For the 'mother'-alliance some decisions have to be made...
Wings are more independent than squads, so there's a bigger risk involved ("what if they split off?"), especially when the round involves private galaxies.
Squads and wings need some sort of representative. In the squad-system you're likely to have more of those. Administratively this will be more work.

[Som1]

just to back up what K-W said a bit.. in r7 my cluster(c2) got hammered by NewX and mainly NoS & Xan after we hit some important LDK & NewX HC gals inside the cluster, it was quite simply exagerated, we had incoming about 2 to 3 waves of incoming every days for about a full month. It was simply excessive, they totally wanted to kill us and it did work, but while killing us, FLVT had the task very easier... and all that happened to protect some top players and galaxies in c2. I think there was 7 or 8 FLVT gals in c2, so I can't believe the amounts of ships they used to get us heh.

In r6 the strategy was about the same but since the number were in Xan's favor this time, it didn't fail.

[Yaroslav]

Originally posted by Som1
just to back up what K-W said a bit.. in r7 my cluster(c2) got hammered by NewX and mainly NoS & Xan after we hit some important LDK & NewX HC gals inside the cluster, it was quite simply exagerated, we had incoming about 2 to 3 waves of incoming every days for about a full month. It was simply excessive, they totally wanted to kill us and it did work, but while killing us, FLVT had the task very easier... and all that happened to protect some top players and galaxies in c2. I think there was 7 or 8 FLVT gals in c2, so I can't believe the amounts of ships they used to get us heh.

In r6 the strategy was about the same but since the number were in Xan's favor this time, it didn't fail.

2-3 waves of incoming everyday for a month? Hard to believe, and I was in that cluster. (and got more incomings in my gal than ever in my pa life, and i'm a NoCeX veteran )

[Mr. Juggalo]

WINGS ENABLE THE ALLIANCE TO TAKE OFF AND GET INTO THE AIR AND FLY AROUND~!!!!!!111111111111 OMG WTF LOL!

[Bongdage]

Originally posted by Mr. Juggalo
WINGS ENABLE THE ALLIANCE TO TAKE OFF AND GET INTO THE AIR AND FLY AROUND~!!!!!!111111111111 OMG WTF LOL!

innit.

[KoeN]

Originally posted by Som1
just to back up what K-W said a bit.. in r7 my cluster(c2) got hammered by NewX and mainly NoS & Xan after we hit some important LDK & NewX HC gals inside the cluster, it was quite simply exagerated, we had incoming about 2 to 3 waves of incoming every days for about a full month. It was simply excessive, they totally wanted to kill us and it did work, but while killing us, FLVT had the task very easier... and all that happened to protect some top players and galaxies in c2. I think there was 7 or 8 FLVT gals in c2, so I can't believe the amounts of ships they used to get us heh.

HAHAHHAHAA


i don't who or what attacked your cluster, but it surely wasn't Newx.

[DrunkenViking]

Originally posted by Auro
The in-joke is that Lithyn is still our ultra-secret-uber-leet-:ninja:-n00b-wing. A while ago I claimed their chan in the name of NoS but not too many peeps took notice. My peon Smooth_ will field your questions about our cheeky wingy shenanigans.

loooool

[Guran]

Originally posted by DrunkenViking
Well. Since NoS is pretty much illuminati now(HR left and Anoubis is down atm?) it would be nice to include lithyn too. After all they were a wing aswell, even tho noone liked them and it would turn out to be a not too good cooporation :/
I wouldn't call NoS a wing alliance anymore. But i truly believe they were one of the best wing based alliances back in the good old days.

The cooporation wasn't good indeed but I wouldn't blame Lithyn for that. The in-NoS propaganda has worked well it seems. If you only knew what really happened and why we left.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Auro
The in-joke is that Lithyn is still our ultra-secret-uber-leet-:ninja:-n00b-wing. A while ago I claimed their chan in the name of NoS but not too many peeps took notice. My peon Smooth_ will field your questions about our cheeky wingy shenanigans.

Considering how NoS treated Lithyn, that was a very very silly thing to say.

no further comment.

[Chaos]

lol. ffs.. the reason Lithyn left NoS was cuz lithyn HC came online one night raving drunk.. screamed something unreadable. and then ordered all his minions to leave the NoS chan. ffs.
we where all just "?" and said "lol.. wtf was that?"

NoS treated lithyn well ffs.

-Chaos

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by K-W
Another type of wing commenly seen is a recruitment wing, which si run by a command member of the main alliance.

Eventhough Wrath showed us recruiting wings can be successfull, I generally do not believe in the use of recruiting wings. Yes it's a good way to filter new members for the main alliance, yet I'd have a feeling of inferiority when I'd consider joining a recruiting wing. And I'm sure those wings really do try hard to not give pple such impression.
The only reason why e.g. Wrath worked was because it was a wing to the best alliance in PA, I guess pple wouldn't mind being in a recruiting alliance if they believe they got a chance to join Fury. But for a medium sized alliance or a subtopper, I hardly think it's beneficial, esp during these last rounds.

nway, just my 2 cents.

rgds Kj

[WipeOut]

The secret about having an effective wing-based alliance is finding the perfect equilibrium. Each wing needs a strong command, with the appropriate authority over its members, yet it needs to be loyal to the main alliance as well. Each wing needs its own identity, yet it should not distinguish too much from the main alliance identity. I take it you get my point.

Adapting an alliance, making it a wing is something that's difficult to do. Wings not having origin in the alliance itself, often have other values, and the entire community differs respectively.

With Howling Rain I had found NoS' perfect match, with Lithyn... that was slightly different.

[dezaster]

Originally posted by Chaos
NoS treated lithyn well ffs.

and gigli wasn't a flop...

grow up

[Chaos]

I need to grow up cuz I think NoS treated Lithyn well?

lol.

where you there? do you know what happened?
do you have any idea at all what you are talking about here?
or is this just another mindless post ment to make you look older and wiser?

I'm 26. a steph father to a 6 year old girl. and my GF is pregnant with my child. a boy. and I take my responsibilites seriously.
I'm not sure, but I think that qualifies as "grown up".

now.. try to make posts with better arguments in the future.

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by Chaos
I need to grow up cuz I think NoS treated Lithyn well?

lol.

where you there? do you know what happened?
do you have any idea at all what you are talking about here?
or is this just another mindless post ment to make you look older and wiser?

I'm 26. a steph father to a 6 year old girl. and my GF is pregnant with my child. a boy. and I take my responsibilites seriously.
I'm not sure, but I think that qualifies as "grown up".

now.. try to make posts with better arguments in the future.

He was Lithyn Chaos. So he is very well entlitled to have his opinion on the matter. However, you are also pointing out the dullness of his one-liner post, very rightly so.

And matey, I think you need to grow up as well, for seriously taking the effort to react to such a cheap post, instead of cuddling your wife and kid

When's the son due?

[Chaos]

14 Des =)

and.. I was bored. so I had the time to respond to a lame post for once.

[DrunkenViking]

Originally posted by Chaos
14 Des =)

and.. I was bored. to I had the time to respond to a lame post for once.

congrats in a dvance then. Hope it becomes a nice kiddo unlike his father j/k

[Chaos]

Originally posted by DrunkenViking
congrats in a dvance then. Hope it becomes a nice kiddo unlike his father j/k

rofl. so do I

[TheShadowMan]

I think this has been the first thread in ages where ppl actually tried to helpful well done ppl!

Al

[berten]

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
I wouldn't blame lithyn for it not working out, you'd think NoS officers and command would avoid the subject, keeping in mind the treatment lithyn received from them...

After NoS's rather violent kicking of Lithyn from it's servers Jurgen negotiated a deal for them to go into WP, though not as a wing but just as a group of players within the ally. However they were hardly assimilated fully as they rnd9 made an effort to revive Lithyn(Sapientia) which then failed and now large portions of former Lithyn are in Dragons(and the rest are back in WP more or less).

The story of the trials and tribulations of one wing(left out the prelude a.k.a. Xylem as it wasn't a wing then yet)

Ooooh ;D
lithyn
the memories
shame it didn't work out, and wouldn't blame nos etc for kicking us .
It was actually a vivant night and we decided not to go upon nos hc the very same day out respect for the place they offered and gave us at the initial start of the round.
I had nice time in NoS, which i'm still thankfull for.
wipeout: u should come to my meet in belgium contact me on irc bout it ;-).

The NoS wingsystem worked well, they were all loyal to the alliance. Lithyn members were loyal to Lithyn only and would do basicly everything for it. We covered lot's of nos'ers and they did so for us to. It didn't work out, we got kicked cause we were not loyal enough to NoS. (wearing the [\] tag was one of the main reasons.)

Oh, i could keep talking around this subject etc. But that would mean more time lost for my schoolwork.

[berten]

Originally posted by Chaos
lol. ffs.. the reason Lithyn left NoS was cuz lithyn HC came online one night raving drunk.. screamed something unreadable. and then ordered all his minions to leave the NoS chan. ffs.
we where all just "?" and said "lol.. wtf was that?"

NoS treated lithyn well ffs.

-Chaos

Euhm,
i was there as lithyn hc.
and could be that i was drunk would explain the black wholes in my memory.
Had summit to do with dingo, can't remember it anymore really, but we indeed left the nos channel to join our own. More probably out of fun etc then of serious holding back off nos.

But as said: lithyn-NoS were to different to be together, which explained itself in a flambant mass-Gline ;D

Berten

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
Eventhough Wrath showed us recruiting wings can be successfull, I generally do not believe in the use of recruiting wings. Yes it's a good way to filter new members for the main alliance, yet I'd have a feeling of inferiority when I'd consider joining a recruiting wing. And I'm sure those wings really do try hard to not give pple such impression.
The only reason why e.g. Wrath worked was because it was a wing to the best alliance in PA, I guess pple wouldn't mind being in a recruiting alliance if they believe they got a chance to join Fury. But for a medium sized alliance or a subtopper, I hardly think it's beneficial, esp during these last rounds.

nway, just my 2 cents.

rgds Kj

There are some flaws in this and I will write a longer repy when I get my comp back.Remind me.

[gzambo]

Originally posted by Zh|l
There are some flaws in this and I will write a longer repy when I get my comp back.Remind me.

this confuses me why is there flaws in his opinion is it because its differant from yours or do u just have it in your head that you must argue with him on the forums

[WipeOut]

Originally posted by berten

wipeout: u should come to my meet in belgium contact me on irc bout it ;-).

Oi, where and when?

I'll try to make it.

[berten]

privmsg wipeout