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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:20   #51
Nodrog
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
I still say it's all about the as yet undiscovered laws of physics.
Well you could say that about anything, couldnt you? ("I believe that X is true although I cant prove it, but science will one day show me right!")
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:20   #52
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Re: time travel

Maybe the idea of a scientific impossibility is logically incoherent then!
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:21   #53
Nodrog
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Re: time travel

maybe ur mum is logically incoherent
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:26   #54
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
the following example clearly indicated that I was talking about travelling backwards in time. If I had also given an example of travelling forward in time then your point might be valid.
My point remains valid because, as is the nature with the English language, the first question you pose in a discussion is oft the one most people have supplanted firmly in their minds when putting together a reply.

I agree that the jokes are a bit silly, but i'm afraid that there are an awful lot of 'well-to-do' physicists on this forum who have answered this point many times previously.

Consequently, this will turn into a slanging match between them, before they all realise they are saying basically the same thing and arguing over minor imperfections in each others' statements.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:26   #55
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Re: time travel

You should hear her on Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. Barmy as hell.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:27   #56
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Fortunate, then, that I was fairly obviously dealing with absolutes.

Currently, empirically, "time travel" is impossible. But that's not the same as it actually being impossible.
There's not even the slightest shred of evidence to support time-travel, so all serious discussion of it is fairly pointless. Saying that it "cant be shown to be scientifically impossible" follows trivially from your definition of the terms, and isnt any more informative than a creationist saying that "evolution is just a theory".

In any case, the popular notion of time travel (Dr Who etc) is utterly incoherent and seems to be largely based on pseudo-philosophy masquerading as 'science' (parallel universes and the like). By the time you've got an even remotely rigorous definition of what you're talking about, you've travelled so far away from the popular notion that its misleading to say you're even disscussing the same concept.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:28   #57
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Re: time travel

if you figure out how to travel faster than the speed of light, then after figuring that out, travel as fast as 50 light years per second to travel into the future, and be able to physically separate the 2 variables of the rest of the world spending 50 real-time years, and you only spending a second of your life (which is horseshit because travelling 50 light years per second only means that the rest of the universe spent a second when you're 50 light years away)

OR

if you figure out a way of putting into a vacuum something that is not physical such as time , to travel into the past

OTHERWISE

it's not possible, i don't care how smart these bummed, bored physicists are, somewhere in bum****, nowhere, who are claiming that time travel is possible - they are out of their ****ing minds!!
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:28   #58
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Well you could say that about anything, couldnt you? ("I believe that X is true although I cant prove it, but science will one day show me right!")
Yes, that is true, you could say that.

I <3 science.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:31   #59
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
if you figure out how to travel faster than the speed of light, then after figuring that out, travel as fast as 50 light years per second to travel into the future, and be able to physically separate the 2 variables of the rest of the world spending 50 real-time years, and you only spending a second of your life (which is horseshit because travelling 50 light years per second only means that the rest of the universe spent a second when you're 50 light years away)
If you go faster than the speed of light, time is imaginary.

If you want 50 years to pass in a given rest frame when a second passes in yours, you only need to be travelling 99.999999999999999999598% of the speed of light relative to that frame.

Actually, there is nothing correct in that paragraph at all, so I don't know why I'm correcting isolated bits of it.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:35   #60
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Re: time travel

And according to Einstein, who is still our best reference, FTL travel is impossible.
However, as I have already mentioned (and was discussed at length the last time we had this thread) time travel forwards has been done - it's just not what people expect it to be, as we are talking a shift of nanoseconds.

Nevertheless, it has been acheived. The crew of the ISS are doing it now.
It's more usefully called time dilation, and it's just not terribly useful.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:44   #61
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Re: time travel

Even if it were practically possible to 'travel' forwards by a significant amount, I think it would still be highly misleading to call what you were doing "time travel". The idea of travelling through time only really makes sense if you're considering time as existing in an absolute sense, sort of like a flowing river which carries us all along (which is possibly where the idea came from in the first place). It raises all kinds of metaphysical questions like "how can I reach the future if it hasnt happened yet" and so on, which can be avoided by being more specific about what you're talking about.

When a phrase has too much baggage associated, its probably less confusing to abandon it altogether rather than to redefine it.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 14:45   #62
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Nevertheless, it has been acheived. The crew of the ISS are doing it now.
Everything is doing it now.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:28   #63
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Everything is doing it now.
Yes but he was talking relative to us... oh god astrophysics lectures are haunting me again...
We still dont understand so much about the universe so talking about time travel is stupid. However it would be funny to find out if: person A went back in time and killed their grandfather before person A's father was conceived, and then what would happen the instant the grandfather died....
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:29   #64
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Re: time travel

What instant?
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:34   #65
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Re: time travel

say like the bullet hit him, or more appropriately THE INSTANT HE DIES LIKE I SAID
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:36   #66
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Re: time travel

(My point was that that instant would never arise because it's logically incoherent to travel backwards in time).
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:39   #67
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
say like the bullet hit him, or more appropriately THE INSTANT HE DIES LIKE I SAID

Maybe he'll wake up in the 'Real World' having just taken the red pill!!!
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:39   #68
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
(My point was that that instant would never arise because it's logically incoherent to travel backwards in time).
Like i said we dont know enough about the universe to say if this is true, its not likely, but its a possibility that some unknown law of physics exists that allows us to, even if a person going back in time, or building a machine to do so would be rather hard...
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:41   #69
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Re: time travel

No, no. I'm god and I say it's impossible.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:46   #70
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Re: time travel

I'm an atheist and i don't believe in you.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:47   #71
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Re: time travel

That doesn't really bother me too much to be honest.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:47   #72
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
Yes but he was talking relative to us
You're doing it relative to me.

[edit]

And the Grandfather Paradox relies on a certain interpretation of "time travel" and "time".
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:52   #73
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You're doing it relative to me.

[edit]

And the Grandfather Paradox relies on a certain interpretation of "time travel" and "time".
If you're at your computer and im at mine, how are we moving relative to each other considering the Earth isnt distorting in some horrible chain of events?
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:54   #74
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Re: time travel

Past or future means nothing to me.. action reaction.. everythings now..
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:55   #75
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Re: time travel

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
If you're at your computer and im at mine, how are we moving relative to each other considering the Earth isnt distorting in some horrible chain of events?
The differing gravity well causes the time dilation in this instance. Although the surface of the earth does move at different rates depending on your latitude and continental plate.
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Unread 14 Mar 2005, 17:59   #76
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Re: time travel

well i dont think you are at the top of a mountain so the effect would be miniscule
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