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28 Mar 2006, 17:09
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#1
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Wick
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: #ABIGBOX
Posts: 107
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TV Licence Legal Help
Ok, I am currently living in a shared house along with 4 other students. We have a TV Licence in my name. The house we live in is 2 houses knocked together (number 30 and 31), something we did not realise/remember until today.
In january a guy came round and said we didnt have a tv licence, he gave us a grace period and said 'get one'. I rang up and made sure that we were on their database as having a tv licence.
Today my housemate has been summoned to appear in court for not having a tv licence. The licence we have is for number 30 and his court summoning is for number 31. I've foned the TV licence company and they have now merged the 2 properties together on their computers.
I'm not entirely sure where to go from here, should my housemate just fill in the forms he was sent saying 'not guilty' and attend his hearing? Or would writing a letter to the courts explaining our situation mean they may cancel the hearing? Any help on the situation would be greatly appreciated (especially from legal eagles) as i really dont have a clue what to do or what could happen. Will he be fined anyway or does it sound pretty hopeful?
__________________
<Lomax> I win \o\ \o/ /o/
<Asmo> heh
<Asmo> you rock, lomax
<Desse> I am trying to breed a new superpod by leaving Unipods and Megapods alone in the same room with dim lights and Barry white on the cd player
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28 Mar 2006, 17:19
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#2
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^ ^ Clearly Stolen ^ ^
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Exeter
Posts: 753
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Surely its up to the TV company to cancel the court stuff, but theyre probably too lazy to get up off their fat asses, so if i was you, id write a letter to the courts explaining what happened and also send the forms back aswell.
But i dont know the "legallity" on that either.
Im sure Yahwe knows tho.
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This is a stick - |
This a squiggly line - S
This is a hole - o
This is a man in a wheelchair - &
and that was my sig.
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28 Mar 2006, 17:32
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#3
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Motherfracker
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,985
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Do you have a seperate or shared contract with your landlord?
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28 Mar 2006, 17:35
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#4
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Wick
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: #ABIGBOX
Posts: 107
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
we've got a shared tenancy agreement i believe, he said one licence covered us all anyway
__________________
<Lomax> I win \o\ \o/ /o/
<Asmo> heh
<Asmo> you rock, lomax
<Desse> I am trying to breed a new superpod by leaving Unipods and Megapods alone in the same room with dim lights and Barry white on the cd player
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28 Mar 2006, 17:46
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
make sure you get confirmation from the company in writing that they view the two properties as one and that you are covered.
I wouldn't worry too much as you don't seem to have done anything wrong and are instead trapped in goverment purgatory.
If you do go to court make sure you use phrase it like
your honor the man said we'd be deadmeat if we didn't get this done, they're a bunch of mongchops etc
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28 Mar 2006, 18:14
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#6
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
how tall are you?
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hi
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28 Mar 2006, 18:22
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#7
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Wick
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: #ABIGBOX
Posts: 107
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
6'4, I play basketball. Reckon u cud share some of ur legal knowledge?
__________________
<Lomax> I win \o\ \o/ /o/
<Asmo> heh
<Asmo> you rock, lomax
<Desse> I am trying to breed a new superpod by leaving Unipods and Megapods alone in the same room with dim lights and Barry white on the cd player
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28 Mar 2006, 18:25
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#8
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
topless pic?
(i bothered to research the answer but you're not getting it unless you're attractive because you hardly ever post ...)
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hi
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28 Mar 2006, 19:16
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#9
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Why don't you ring the TV licence people again and ask them what you should do about it instead of asking on an internet forum about a very bizarre situation that none of us are likely to have experienced or know anything about
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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28 Mar 2006, 19:43
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#10
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Destroyer of Worlds
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 552
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
If you need a licence for each of the properties, then I'm going to get in touch with the people in 25a downstairs and see if they'll share a licence with me next year, since clearly we only need one for the whole of no. 25.
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“In spite of the roaring of the young lions at the Union, and the screaming of the rabbits in the home of the vivisect, in spite of Keble College, and the tramways, and the sporting prints, Oxford still remains the most beautiful thing in England, and nowhere else are life and art so exquisitely blended, so perfectly made one.”
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28 Mar 2006, 19:46
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#11
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
if it's got a different address then you need seperate licenses. A bit like council tax.
Officially I think you're meant to get one for every bedroom (if you're a group renting) but noone does this.
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28 Mar 2006, 19:50
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#12
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1up on you
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 4,007
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer
If you need a licence for each of the properties, then I'm going to get in touch with the people in 25a downstairs and see if they'll share a licence with me next year, since clearly we only need one for the whole of no. 25.
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i believe that you can have a tv liscence for one property providing rent is being paid on the property as one. Take my current flat for example, its in a house with 5 other people, however we all have a lock on our doors, and we all pay rent seperately not as a collective unit. So we all have to get a tv liscence if we have a tv. Only I have a tv liscence the rest are risking it, but have been hounded by the liscencing peope.
My house from last year however was different, our doors didnt have locks (ie yale locks) it was also not split into flats, the rent itself was collective hence why we only needed one tv liscence even though there were about 4 tvs in the house and belonging to different people.
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pig
[ 1u p]
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28 Mar 2006, 19:57
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#13
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
I warned you that you wouldn't get the answer without my help seanG ...
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hi
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28 Mar 2006, 20:09
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#14
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Cute Kitten
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 724
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
As I recall, the situation with shared houses is partly the locks on doors thing, but that can be overridden if there are some communal rooms (for which kitchens, hallways and bathrooms don't count) or, I think, if you share a communal meal - this apparently being the basis of being a proper, single household, as opposed to a bunch of people who happen to live behind the same door. Otherwise a whole lot of teenagers need to get their own TV licences.
As for seanG's situation, I think it is clear they are not liable to pay for a second TV licence, but I don't know what they should do about the summons.
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28 Mar 2006, 20:13
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#15
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Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Turn up in court with the license, wave it under the nose of the idiots at the licensing authority and then be amused at the public money that has just been wasted due to their ignorance/stupidy/laziness (delete where applicable)
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The George Harrison of BlueTuba
Yes, I know he is dead !
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28 Mar 2006, 20:19
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#16
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
It is based on whether you have individual locks on your doors (bolts don't count).
In halls of residence, for example, you might share a meal and bathrooms with the other residents, but you still all need a separate TV licence.
In some accommodation you have yale/chubb locks on your individual bedroom doors. This means you need a separate TV licence.
I expect it can be appealed in a court though, if (as Ebany said) you can prove that you are a single household.
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"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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28 Mar 2006, 20:46
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#17
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It is based on whether you have individual locks on your doors (bolts don't count).
In halls of residence, for example, you might share a meal and bathrooms with the other residents, but you still all need a separate TV licence.
In some accommodation you have yale/chubb locks on your individual bedroom doors. This means you need a separate TV licence.
I expect it can be appealed in a court though, if (as Ebany said) you can prove that you are a single household.
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err, stop spouting bollocks.
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp
read. understand.
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[20:27:47] <nodrog-aawy> **** i think my housemate just caught me masturbating
[11:25:32] <idimmu> you are a little piggy arent you
[13:17:00] <KaneED> i'm so closet i'm like narnia
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Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
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28 Mar 2006, 20:52
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#18
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Love's Sweet Exile
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living on a Stair (Now Sword-less)
Posts: 2,371
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/students.jsp
is probably more useful.
Quote:
Do I need my own licence if I live in shared accommodation?
If you are going to be sharing a house, a separate tenancy agreement would normally mean your room is classified a separately occupied place. In this case, if you have a TV in your room, you will need your own TV Licence.
However, if there is only one TV in a communal area, then only one TV Licence is required. Similarly, if your house can be treated as one place shared by all, then only one TV Licence is required - a joint tenancy agreement would normally indicate that there is only one separately occupied place.
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--SYMM--
Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do
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28 Mar 2006, 20:53
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#19
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
since not everyone is a student here i linked to the index as there are seperate bits for renting etc.
__________________
[20:27:47] <nodrog-aawy> **** i think my housemate just caught me masturbating
[11:25:32] <idimmu> you are a little piggy arent you
[13:17:00] <KaneED> i'm so closet i'm like narnia
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Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
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28 Mar 2006, 21:45
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#20
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
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I share with other people - is it my responsibility to provide a TV Licence?
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If you are going to be sharing a house, a separate tenancy agreement would normally mean your room is classified a separately occupied place. In this case, if you have a TV in your room, you will need your own TV Licence.
However, if there is only one TV in a communal area, then only one TV Licence is required. Similarly, if your house can be treated as one place shared by all, then only one TV Licence is required - a joint tenancy agreement would normally indicate that there is only one separately occupied place.
Ultimately, if your address is unlicensed, both you and your landlord could face prosecution and a fine of £1,000 regardless of your tenancy agreement.
Sorry NB, but that sounds a lot like what I said?
__________________
"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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28 Mar 2006, 21:47
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#21
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
since not everyone is a student here i linked to the index as there are seperate bits for renting etc.
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Seeing as the exact same bit is in the "Landlords and Tenants" bit I expect you didn't look very hard.
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"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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28 Mar 2006, 21:50
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#22
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Seeing as the exact same bit is in the "Landlords and Tenants" bit I expect you didn't look very hard.
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seeing as absolutely nothing anyone has posted adresses the point at hand I wonder how you manage to maintain a mistaken air of self superiority
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hi
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28 Mar 2006, 22:07
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#23
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
I'm not really sure why you're worried tbh.
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28 Mar 2006, 22:48
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#24
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
seeing as absolutely nothing anyone has posted adresses the point at hand I wonder how you manage to maintain a mistaken air of self superiority
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It's something I've been working on over the years.
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"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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28 Mar 2006, 22:56
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#25
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
don't own a tv if you can't be arsed with a licence
listen to the radio
it's better
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"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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28 Mar 2006, 23:39
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#26
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
I don't own a tv. I own a cathode ray tube and some other equipment I assembled myself.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Mar 2006, 03:33
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#27
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Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Actually you don't have to chuck your TV out to exempt yourself from a licence.
Although they word it in such a way that most people will assume TV = need licence (clearly they do this on purpose), please note the boldificated part below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Licence Agency
If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence.
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For example, upon my arrival, I found the reception in hall to be shit. Because of this, I don't have the aerial connected to the TV card in my PC, thus I don't have the ability to recieve TV, ergo I don't need a licence. And before any smartarse tries to correct me on this, I did take the time to check this out with the agency itself.
Why would you want a TV with no aerial? Games consoles, DVD/video watching, as a monitor (playback device for video editing), etc etc. The provision is there specifically to prevent the government taxing TV ownership itself. Unfortunately, they are still allowed to word it sneakily so that people who skim-read miss it, thus providing £++.
Another common misconception is that a TV in, say, the lounge of a shared flat with individual contracts (ie. licence required for each room) requires a licence. In fact, any licence for one of the contracted rooms also covers equipment in communal areas. Of course, if no-one has a licence then you still need to get one, but you may as well get one for one of the rooms rather than just licencing your lounge, seeing as it's covered either way.
I realise none of this helps the original question.
I'm sure the OP will shortly provide the topless shots to yahwe, and this will be resolved.
Also, has anyone else experienced the sheer stupidity of the agency's hired grunts?
After 4 letters, each increasingly threatening, each met with a phonecall from each person in the flat to explain that they didn't have a TV (or in my case, that I wasn't using it to recieve TV), they sent a grunt round to check. Twice.
On the first occasion we rolled our eyes and let him in.
By the second time, we were fed up of wasting our money phoning them to correct their database which clearly wasn't being updated anyway, so we refused him entry until he actually bothered to go get a policeman and a warrent, which he did. While he made an arse out of himself looking round the flat (and making me explain why I didn't need a ****ing licence for the millionth time), we informed the poor police officer of the agency's inability to keep any proper record of updates. He was less than impressed, especially when the grunt phoned the office to disprove our story, and miraculously they actually did have the previous visit on record somewhere.
Can someone (ie. Yahwe) explain why the TV Licence lot are allowed to operate on the pretext of guilty until proven innocent?
I don't have any of the letters on me, but the gist of the last one was something like "Despite repeated requests you are still watching TV illegally at <address>. An enforcement office will be visiting you shortly. If you would like to avoid the investigation, please call <number>."
What the hell? Why is it my responsibility to prove that I'm not breaking the law? Last time I checked, that wasn't how the system was supposed to work. What happened to burden of proof?
It's the "debt collection" tone of the letters and the use of the word "illegal" in particular that really pisses me off.
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Last edited by meglamaniac; 29 Mar 2006 at 03:58.
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29 Mar 2006, 05:52
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#28
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Tilting at windmills
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
There are different burdens of proof. Depending on the type of offense. Silly little regulations, accompanied by small fines generally require proof on a balance of probabilities. Not beyond reasonable doubt.
In addition the burden in these cases generally resides with the defendant.
It is called Strict Liability. It is there to stop mentally ill people from issuing court proceedings for every parking ticket and speeding fine, asking the crown to proove it beyond reasonable doubt.
PS. This is addressed to megla's final point. Not the initial question. I also make no claim to knowledge of whether an offense under British TV Liscencing Law's are in fact offenses of Strict Liability.
That said... ignorance of the Law is no excuse, unless you live 8,000 kilometres away in New Zealand.
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29 Mar 2006, 08:42
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#29
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Motherfracker
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,985
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
if it's got a different address then you need seperate licenses. A bit like council tax.
Officially I think you're meant to get one for every bedroom (if you're a group renting) but noone does this.
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Don't make up lies Ste
If you have a shared tenancy agreement, you only need one license. If you have seperate tenency agreements you need a license for each room.
I know this because I had to look into it because the retards I live with are too stupid :/
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29 Mar 2006, 10:16
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#30
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Also, has anyone else experienced the sheer stupidity of the agency's hired grunts?
After 4 letters, each increasingly threatening, each met with a phonecall from each person in the flat to explain that they didn't have a TV (or in my case, that I wasn't using it to recieve TV), they sent a grunt round to check. Twice.
On the first occasion we rolled our eyes and let him in.
By the second time, we were fed up of wasting our money phoning them to correct their database which clearly wasn't being updated anyway, so we refused him entry until he actually bothered to go get a policeman and a warrent, which he did. While he made an arse out of himself looking round the flat (and making me explain why I didn't need a ****ing licence for the millionth time), we informed the poor police officer of the agency's inability to keep any proper record of updates. He was less than impressed, especially when the grunt phoned the office to disprove our story, and miraculously they actually did have the previous visit on record somewhere.
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That seems rather excessive. My parents found that simply ignoring the letters makes their computers break and just start sending the same cycle of increasingly rude letters all over again. Obviously trying to help them out is what triggered their response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
There are different burdens of proof. Depending on the type of offense. Silly little regulations, accompanied by small fines generally require proof on a balance of probabilities. Not beyond reasonable doubt.
In addition the burden in these cases generally resides with the defendant.
It is called Strict Liability. It is there to stop mentally ill people from issuing court proceedings for every parking ticket and speeding fine, asking the crown to proove it beyond reasonable doubt.
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You're so wrong you make my head hurt.
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Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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29 Mar 2006, 13:01
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#31
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Tilting at windmills
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
You're so wrong you make my head hurt.
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You'd not get very far in the colonies then
The reverse may well be true.
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29 Mar 2006, 21:56
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#32
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Monkey Man
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 173
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Re: TV Licence Legal Help
Citizens Advice Bureau?
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