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25 Mar 2009, 23:51
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#1
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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A question about KISS
Recently a lot of people have talked about KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) in Planetarion.
The idea is to keep features simple for new players to understand, and to not over overwelm them.
But just comparing between PA and EVE-Online.
Obviously comparing 3d v 2d isnt what i'm pointing at, but its the learning curve.
EVE is a fantastic game and its very complicated, but thats not turned many people away (those that have disliked EVE have more likely gone to WoW, but then WoW isnt exactly simple).
While PA has a small learning curve, EVE has a huge one, but then the player base for EVE has over 200k accounts, and 40k+ online at peak times.
In eve your not given any formulas, and some features are still a mystery. The manual in PA is there as a guide to players, whether they want to know formulas or not.
With the creation of PA Calc a lot of the formulas (once a requirement before) do not require the new player to worry about.
More features could be directly included into PA, which bypasses the need to know formulas.
Also additions to the Population page is needed, for any adjustments you make, to have the effects shown on that very page, and not needing to flick between 2 pages.
Case in point is the need to flick between research page and population page to see the effect that adjusting the research population makes.
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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26 Mar 2009, 00:05
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#2
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: A question about KISS
lobbie u got too much time on your hands go get roids
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26 Mar 2009, 00:41
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#3
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Old Timer
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Your sisters panties
Posts: 201
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Re: A question about KISS
you cant compare the most complex MMO on the market to a spreadgame when attracting new players. Its like comparing a kid playing with "ball in a cup" to their XBOX 360. Eve online has so many different ways to play the game, from pvp, to pve, to solo industry, to pirating, to exploring, etc etc etc. So new players stay because the unknown interests them. PA is just about math and competition. Theres also quite a gap in development and spending between the two. New players will go thru the steep learning curve in eve online because they find something unknown in eve they want to explore. While theres not much of a learning curse in PA, after about 30 mins, you know all their is to know about the math involved and you can get bored with it rather quickly.
__________________
Round 1-6: ND, Xanadu(RedBull)
Round 13: LCH
Round 14-18: [1up]
Round 19-20: Ascendancy
Round 21: Quit
Round 30: Ascendancy
Round 75-81: DLR
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26 Mar 2009, 00:57
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#4
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: A question about KISS
What is the question?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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26 Mar 2009, 02:22
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#5
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: A question about KISS
Theres a question?
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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26 Mar 2009, 02:23
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#6
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: A question about KISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
lobbie u got too much time on your hands go get roids
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Too much defence
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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26 Mar 2009, 02:23
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#7
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Nobody
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 178
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Re: A question about KISS
Apparently not.
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26 Mar 2009, 03:01
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#8
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: A question about KISS
Apples and oranges I think, MrLobster.
If you haven't played Sins of a Solar Empire, it's worth the $20.
That's about as close to a middle ground between PA and EvE as I've ever seen, and I think it addresses some of your questions about KISS.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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26 Mar 2009, 04:54
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: A question about KISS
I once suggested a Fog of War approch to PA, you start with your planet (obviously) and you discover your galaxy, then your cluster and lastly the universe. Travel tech tree follows the same curve.
I don't think PA is too complicated though, what imho turns people off is the fact you rely so much on tools outside of PA (IRC, parsers, reliable bcalc, sandmans, etc...) in order to play decently.
The fact that PA is too oriented towards alliances instead of galaxies is a major problem too.
Get rid of alliances rankings, get rid of alliance travel bonus. Let people play the game by themself again and not be merely buttons pushers.
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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26 Mar 2009, 05:07
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#10
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Commander in Briefs!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 783
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Re: A question about KISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
I once suggested a Fog of War approch to PA, you start with your planet (obviously) and you discover your galaxy, then your cluster and lastly the universe. Travel tech tree follows the same curve.
I don't think PA is too complicated though, what imho turns people off is the fact you rely so much on tools outside of PA (IRC, parsers, reliable bcalc, sandmans, etc...) in order to play decently.
The fact that PA is too oriented towards alliances instead of galaxies is a major problem too.
Get rid of alliances rankings, get rid of alliance travel bonus. Let people play the game by themself again and not be merely buttons pushers.
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Sandman commented that he would be shutting down sandmans.co.uk, after r30. So perhaps PA need to get the code from him asap
EDIT: Never mind, he has changed his mind
__________________
<Kila> WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY PRECIOUS FORUMS
<Zeyi> 24h forum closure
<Zeyi> all posts recalled
"he's got a proven track record when it comes to showy art composition" - Tommy
<Sigi> Light: can I ask u how many open internet-windows u always have?
<MrLobster|PM> i have 2, the pa page, and the website for naked light pictures
<Ave> both has bad gfx
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26 Mar 2009, 05:20
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#11
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: A question about KISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
I once suggested a Fog of War approch to PA, you start with your planet (obviously) and you discover your galaxy, then your cluster and lastly the universe. Travel tech tree follows the same curve.
I don't think PA is too complicated though, what imho turns people off is the fact you rely so much on tools outside of PA (IRC, parsers, reliable bcalc, sandmans, etc...) in order to play decently.
The fact that PA is too oriented towards alliances instead of galaxies is a major problem too.
Get rid of alliances rankings, get rid of alliance travel bonus. Let people play the game by themself again and not be merely buttons pushers.
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I was actually thinking earlier that hard-coding alliances might have been a bad idea...
Will think some more on it, and report back.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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26 Mar 2009, 11:12
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#12
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: A question about KISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoaT
Eve online has so many different ways to play the game, from pvp, to pve, to solo industry, to pirating, to exploring, etc etc etc. So new players stay because the unknown interests them. PA is just about math and competition.
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And that, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly the reason why PA is boring and not attracting players. Give us some actual depth in gameplay instead of this pile of one-dimensional playing style bullshit!
Regarding KISS: It's a principle that everyone should stick to but which gets used on totally wrong approaches all the time. It is not about oversimplifying things nor is it about protecting everyone from everything harmful. It's all about choosing a solution that might be complex (depending upon the parts involved and their interactions) but which is definately not complicated.
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Iā! Iā! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
Last edited by Heartless; 26 Mar 2009 at 11:18.
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31 Mar 2009, 10:55
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#13
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Old Timer
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Your sisters panties
Posts: 201
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Re: A question about KISS
that requires throwing money into development Heartless, I doubt any company has considered spending money on PA in many years.
__________________
Round 1-6: ND, Xanadu(RedBull)
Round 13: LCH
Round 14-18: [1up]
Round 19-20: Ascendancy
Round 21: Quit
Round 30: Ascendancy
Round 75-81: DLR
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31 Mar 2009, 11:18
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#14
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: A question about KISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoaT
that requires throwing money into development Heartless, I doubt any company has considered spending money on PA in many years.
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Well, you reap what you sow. So if you are not sowing anything you aren't really going to have something to reap.
__________________
Iā! Iā! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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31 Mar 2009, 11:56
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#15
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: A question about KISS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly the reason why PA is boring and not attracting players. Give us some actual depth in gameplay instead of this pile of one-dimensional playing style bullshit!
Regarding KISS: It's a principle that everyone should stick to but which gets used on totally wrong approaches all the time. It is not about oversimplifying things nor is it about protecting everyone from everything harmful. It's all about choosing a solution that might be complex (depending upon the parts involved and their interactions) but which is definately not complicated.
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so true!
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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