The United Kingdom

[Weeks]

Is it one country?
Or a collection of 4 seperate countries?

[ChubbyChecker]

Depends on how you define a country.

Personally I would say it is one country.

[Ap0k]

as the name suggests, its a kingdom of 4 countries.

at least thats my take on it.

[Tzencath]

The united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland (co-incidently, the longest name of any country in the world ) is an amalgamation of great britain, which is in THEORY 3 countries, but has been ruled by the english for hundreds of years, and scotland and wales use british currency and language, but do have their own parliments. while northern ireland is officially i believe a colony of england, not an independant state.

it is the original super state

[Kumnaa]

Scotland, Wales and England are seperate countries. Nobody knows what Northern Ireland is, nobody really wants them.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

england and scotland are countries, wales is a principality and northern ireland is a province.

[Kumnaa]

Originally posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
wales is a principality

tell that to the Welsh

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

im sure welsh people already know

it was in fact annexed by england, that is the reason they have an assembly rather than a parliament.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Tzencath
co-incidently, the longest name of any country in the world

I think it is the 3rd longest name now, because some Island renamed itself and insisted on including the words "free peoples democratic" in the title while simultaneously being run by a dictator. I'll see if I can find it.

[Tzencath]

well, we're just gona have to invade and put a stop to that

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Tzencath
well, we're just gona have to invade and put a stop to that

or add their name to ours.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Tzencath
it is the original super state

Original != Best, though :-)

M.

[plasmas_arms]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
or add their name to ours.

What a cunning plan!


Your real name isnt Baldrick by any chance?

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
I think it is the 3rd longest name now, because some Island renamed itself and insisted on including the words "free peoples democratic" in the title while simultaneously being run by a dictator. I'll see if I can find it.

well i have this old book which ha the top 10 countries with the longest names and the official names of Libya (56 letters) and Algeria (49 letters) both beat the UK (45 letters) but since those two are translated from a language that doesnt ue the roman alphabet, the method of translation could change the name length. so with this island (no idea which it is) the UK would be down to 4th at least.

[Tzencath]

you have to use the roman alphabet, otherwise it's like trying to drive a car with a small peice of toast, it makes no sense.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

"but since those two are translated from a language that doesnt use the roman alphabet"

it is done using the roman alphabet.

[Proteus]

4 Countries within a Country.

P.S. This is Tony Blair's website, so it may be a lie.

[Evil Skragg]

The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, with England being the sovereign nation.

[Proteus]

Originally posted by Evil Skragg
The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, with England being the sovereign nation.

Or not.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Evil Skragg
The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, with England being the sovereign nation.

Brrrnnggg! Wrong.

Scotland and England are (in theory) equal partners.

M.

[Tzencath]

Originally posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
"but since those two are translated from a language that doesnt use the roman alphabet"

it is done using the roman alphabet.

but you therefor lose something in translation...

[plasmas_arms]

Originally posted by Proteus
4 Countries within a Country.

P.S. This is Tony Blair's website, so it may be a lie.

Its not a lie, it is based on factual information provided by rogue intelligence agencies out to discredit the goverment and any claims that it is a lie are sponsored by freedom hating commie pinko bastard BBC journalists .

[Tzencath]

Originally posted by Mong
Brrrnnggg! Wrong.

Scotland and England are (in theory) equal partners.

M.

in what universe was tha?
england is the sovereign nation of the UK, and the commonwealth.

[Proteus]

Originally posted by Tzencath
in what universe was tha?
england is the sovereign nation of the UK, and the commonwealth.

No it's not.

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally posted by Tzencath
in what universe was tha?
england is the sovereign nation of the UK, and the commonwealth.

Well, the first king of Britain (or UK?) was King James VI of Scotland who became King James I of Britain (or UK?). When this happened Scotland and England became equal members of Britain (or UK?). You could even say that Scotland was superior since the King was a Scot.

Of course since then the Tudors have taken over so I don't know what happened then, if England became superior.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

Originally posted by Tzencath
but you therefor lose something in translation...

"the method of translation could change the name length"

do people actually read posts anymore?

[Nondescript Human]

Originally posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua

it was in fact annexed by england, that is the reason they have an assembly rather than a parliament.

Actually, as I remember it, Wales has an Assembly rather than a parliament because they voted Yes-No in their devolution referendum, whereas Scotland voted Yes-Yes (Yes to devolution and Yes to this new body having the power to initiate primary legislation eg. tax varying powers).

[Marilyn Manson]

It would depend entirely on who you ask, I would assume. A Scottish or Welsh Nationalist would possibly deny that there is either a country called The UK or that it has a national idenitity. A Northern Irish Unionist or an Englishman may argue the opposite.

I don't particularly care that much. I'm part of a state that works fairly well, and is free, democratic and generally just, and whose society has a lot of plus points too. That's about enough for me.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

Originally posted by Nondescript Human
Actually, as I remember it, Wales has an Assembly rather than a parliament because they voted Yes-No in their devolution referendum, whereas Scotland voted Yes-Yes (Yes to devolution and Yes to this new body having the power to initiate primary legislation eg. tax varying powers).

scotland did get the chance to vote on a parliament and whether it should have tax raising powers, the welsh only got to vote on whether to have an assembly and didnt get the option of tax raising powers.

http://www.engender.org.uk/scotparl/...m97/wales.html

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by Proteus
4 Countries within a Country.

P.S. This is Tony Blair's website, so it may be a lie.

I note how it doesn't even try and justify the concept of "Countries within a country"

Which rather lets down it's argument that such a concept is rationaly viable.

[Proteus]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
I note how it doesn't even try and justify the concept of "Countries within a country"

Which rather lets down it's argument that such a concept is rationaly viable.

It's not so much an argument as a statement of fact.

[Quetzovercoatl]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
Well, the first king of Britain (or UK?) was King James VI of Scotland who became King James I of Britain (or UK?). When this happened Scotland and England became equal members of Britain (or UK?). You could even say that Scotland was superior since the King was a Scot.

Of course since then the Tudors have taken over so I don't know what happened then, if England became superior.

So the Tudors reign after the Stuarts now?

A parallel universe or a testament to the decline in educational standards?

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

Originally posted by Proteus
It's not so much an argument as a statement of fact.

except for the 'fact' that four of the 'countries' arent countries at all.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by Proteus
It's not so much an argument as a statement of fact.

I thought fact had to be based on rational observation of reality. Whoops.

'Yes, they are all four countries within a country because it is teh fact' doesn't hold much sway with me, unfortunately. Certainly, their inability to explain such an apparent 'fact' will be puzzling to many members of the public, I'd assume, especially foreigners, of which both groups that website is intended to (presumably) serve.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

i have found the most authoritative website to date to settle the discussion on whether wales is a country

clearly wales is little more than an english county "1536: An Act of Union effectively makes Wales a region of England."

[Proteus]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
I thought fact had to be based on rational observation of reality. Whoops.

But this is the government we are talking about here.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
Well, the first king of Britain (or UK?) was King James VI of Scotland who became King James I of Britain (or UK?). When this happened Scotland and England became equal members of Britain (or UK?). You could even say that Scotland was superior since the King was a Scot.

Of course since then the Tudors have taken over so I don't know what happened then, if England became superior.

There was no 'Union' except in terms of crowns until 1707(?), when GB was born and one state came into being, which governed both countries. Up to 1800(?) King and Queens were termed 'King of Great Britain and Ireland', when The UK was born, and they became 'King/Queen of The United Kingdom of GB and Ireland.'

Ireland dropped out, of course, so now it's Northern Ireland instead of Ireland.

Oh, and Scotland had long before 1707 been a nigh-on vassal of England, and it's entry into Union was as a result of bribery and several other unscrupulous practises. Scotland was not exactly hard done by, though, at least, after Jacobitism had been killed off, and nowadays it is just as politically potent as England, if not more so.

Feel free to correct if more informed.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
i have found the most authoritative website to date to settle the discussion on whether wales is a country

clearly wales is little more than an english county "1536: An Act of Union effectively makes Wales a region of England."

Why the hell are people dredging up sources of authority as if they settle this whole thing?!?

The question as to whether Wales, etc are countries (Or, more accurately, nations - which I think is what people are really getting at here - is not something you can just settle based on the law or whatever. It is a pure value judgment and the answer will be different to many.)

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

well if they meant nations they should have said nations, from how i read the first post the question was asking for the legal definition.

ps - dont knock my source of authority

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Ireland dropped out, of course, so now it's Northern Ireland instead of Ireland.

We're such bums :(

[Nusselt]

the scots are second in losing battles only to the french.




















light the blue touch paper and run nusselt. Run before the haggis eating surrender clowns catch you.

[Marilyn Manson]

Well, I don't like 'country' anyway, since the best political definition of it can probably only be 'a set area of land with it's own territorial soverignty and jurisdiction', which is obviously a pretty poor definition. And which probably rules in favour of only The UK being a 'country.'

I just use state, nation and nation-state, myself.

[Proteus]

Well the official name of the Welsh Assembly is "The National Assembly for Wales", which suggests that the government thinks that Wales is a nation as well as a country.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
There was no 'Union' except in terms of crowns until 1707(?), when GB was born and one state came into being, which governed both countries. Up to 1804(?) King and Queens were termed 'King of Great Britain and Ireland', when The UK was born, and they became 'King/Queen of The United Kingdom of GB and Ireland.'

Ireland dropped out, of course, so now it's Northern Ireland instead of Ireland.

Oh, and Scotland had long before 1707 been a nigh-on vassal of England, and it's entry into Union was as a result of bribery and several other unscrupulous practises. Scotland was not exactly hard done by, though, at least, after Jacobitism had been killed off, and nowadays it is just as politically potent as England, if not more so.

Feel free to correct if more informed.

I thought that Scotland entered into a union when their King Jimmy the whateverth happened to be next in line to the throne when Bess died in 1603.

[inf]

The United Kingdom is argueably a Nation State.

[huh]

Originally posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
england and scotland are countries, wales is a principality and northern ireland is a province.

Stop lying, liar.

[Atul]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
Well, the first king of Britain (or UK?) was King James VI of Scotland who became King James I of Britain (or UK?). When this happened Scotland and England became equal members of Britain (or UK?). You could even say that Scotland was superior since the King was a Scot.

Of course since then the Tudors have taken over so I don't know what happened then, if England became superior.

actually, we have the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha atm, who are German, so id say UK is a principality of Germany

[Jammers]

Originally posted by Atul
actually, we have the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha atm, who are German, so id say UK is a principality of Germany

But Germany didn't exist then, so when Saxe Coburg Gotha came over to England to take the throne, they brought with them the title deeds to their part of what is now Germany.

[at0mic.c0w]

Originally posted by Radical Edward
I think it is the 3rd longest name now, because some Island renamed itself and insisted on including the words "free peoples democratic" in the title while simultaneously being run by a dictator. I'll see if I can find it.

what about "the people's republic of China" which is their official name i believe, then of course we have the US of A ...and many many more...

[Proteus]

Originally posted by at0mic.c0w
what about "the people's republic of China" which is their official name i believe, then of course we have the US of A ...and many many more...

The People's Republic of China
The United States of America
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

You decide which is longest.

Other long ones include:

The Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe
The Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka
The Democratic and Popular Republic of Algeria
The Federal Islamic Republic of the Comoros
The Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia

And my personal favourite:

The Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya